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Author Topic: What's wrong with Psychic Self Defense?  (Read 35705 times)
Akensai
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« Reply #100 on: February 06, 2004, 08:42:31 »

I think Dark Knight is an unpleasant person (at least this is how you come over to me at the moment) and if perhaps you wonder why no satisfying help is offered to you this could be the reason why.

Now to get back to the topic, I think its true many "physic attacks" come forth, because of the negativity of the person in question, that’s not to say no real attacks happen, but I do think people are getting a very negative image about communication whit spirits and how to deal whit them.

Now I know I don’t have much knowledge on spirit communication, but from what if heard on this tread and my own experience that a lot of problems people have are often self inflicted (even if unconsciously), I think this is a fair assumption.
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Dark Knight
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« Reply #101 on: February 06, 2004, 08:55:09 »

NO akensai,

Oh by the way, obviously since you haven't heard, I got the help I needed, thank you....

People suffering attacks aren't listened to, aren't validated, aren't respected, and aren't given what they need to overcome their problems.

They're given "advice" that doesn't coincide with their experiences or help, then they're forced to take it because if they don't...

Did it ever occur to many of you how unpleasant you may be?

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« Reply #101 on: February 06, 2004, 08:55:09 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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Ramiel
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« Reply #102 on: February 06, 2004, 09:02:59 »

To be old and wise we must first be young and stupid.
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Akensai
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« Reply #103 on: February 06, 2004, 09:16:33 »

quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight


Did it ever occur to many of you how unpleasant you may be?


In fact it has and so i try not to be.

However i seems to me, some "good" people here tried to help you, but you refused them, exactly because YOU think the advise isn't good for you, but really are you in a position to judge, its you who has the problems. Even if the advice was really not working, do you have to be so rude about it, yes i know perhaps in your situation it’s hard, but none the less i think is needed to be polite and kind, only that way we can help each other.

Now you could criticize me that I know nothing of you and your situation, its true, for that I hope you don’t blame me if I’m really wrong, please point it out to me, but don’t be rude please, try to say it in a friendly way.

quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight


Oh by the way, obviously since you haven't heard, I got the help I needed, thank you....


I’m glad you have….


 
quote:
Ramiel: To be old and wise we must first be young and stupid.


YES!!! Another Post for you, but really could have said a little more than that one-liner?
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Dark Knight
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« Reply #104 on: February 06, 2004, 09:29:13 »

You're the first person I've met who has pointed the finger at him/herself instead of the people they are "alledgedly" trying to help. You've earned my respect.

Trying to help is not the same as forcing a type of help that does not work. And no one asks how their actions affect others, actually quite the opposite, they flat out deny it's happening. They tell people how to feel and debate it instead of asking and respecting.

And you can be a good person and still hurt somone terrbily and unintentionally...that's why lesson of "other" is so important.

If you haven't gone through the whole thread, a person from this site had suicidal tendencies because of all this...couldn't fight the negs and look to "move her foot from the falling anvil" at the same time and it took it's toll,...a very heavy toll. And the "good people offering help" neither want to hear it or make an effort to understand, just wanna whine and complain that they have to learn something.

Respect is important, but not more important than a human life. The person's life first, hurt feelings last, sorry. What can you get over more easily, your feelings getting hurt, or an action that caused serious, serious harm to someone?

If it means anything to you, go look at the Robert Bruce quote I made on page 4 of this thread.


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« Reply #104 on: February 06, 2004, 09:29:13 »



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Akensai
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« Reply #105 on: February 06, 2004, 09:51:26 »

quote:
Robert Bruce: Avoid the Love and Light Approach:

Contrary to the advice of many modern spiritual teachers, turning the other cheek, refusing to fight back, and sending loving thoughts to an attacking or possessing neg is not productive and borders on the ridiculous. It is an ineffective approach when dealing with attacking or possessing negs.

A channeled spirit once told me that I come under so many intense psychic attacks because I resist. It said my resistance was an open challenge and this, in itself, attracts and causes psychic attacks. I was told to stop resisting and love my enemy, and that the attacks would stop if I ceased my fiery resistance. I tried this once (I'll try just about anything once) and it almost got me killed. I suffered a lot more damage than I would have, had I countered the attack in my usual way. Submitting to an attack and sending loving thoughts, if anything, empowers attacking Negs.

...Negs thrive on love and light approach and use it to further their ends. They use these gentle spiritual beliefs against people. Negs play on these and often pretend to be misguided lost spirits, projecting seemingly harmless illusory forms to the perceptions of sensitives. But in truth they are just furthering their controls. Negs are masters of lies, trickery, and deception. A troublesome spirit, no matter what it pretends to be, should never be trusted further than one can throw it. Negs should never be given the benefit of the doubt.


Yes it seems strange to send love and light to your "attacker", but how do you know if a "neg" is really asking for help or is attacking you, now I think in some chases it would be clear, but always? I don’t know, I haven’t been in such a situation, so perhaps I’m just a little naive.

Still I’m not convinced about the “slash up the attacker” approach either.

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Dark Knight
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« Reply #106 on: February 06, 2004, 10:18:25 »

Thank you for at least looking at it, and quoting it.


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SpectralDragon
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« Reply #107 on: February 06, 2004, 13:40:46 »

quote:
Originally posted by Akensai



Still I’m not convinced about the “slash up the attacker” approach either.





well, this is not the first approach we take, let me assure you. [Wink]My first approach is usually mediation, but failing that and seeing very much violent action you are forced to use it. Life is too complicated to continueally use one approach, and sometime in your life you will have to use it if you are a "soul healer", or someone who helps people in situations like DK's.
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« Reply #108 on: February 06, 2004, 13:53:21 »

As Bruce Lee said, "Violence is a part of life. You see it every day on  the tv and on the news. You cannot just ignore it or pretend it doesn't exist."
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Dark Knight
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« Reply #109 on: February 06, 2004, 15:45:50 »

quote:
Why didn't you use the example of, say... driving a spike through someone's head?


Why not? Why not a spike, or a knife, or a sledgehammer or this:

quote:
People under attack have a hard time making life work and have to compromise a tremendous amount of themselves just to make it through the basics of life,…have to fight sometimes to get the energy to get up and in the morning. Then on top of all that, they have to endure the abuse of people wanting to force fit their experiences onto theirs. When you tell them their ideas aren’t working, you’re told no, you’re just being irresponsible, or just being negative, why don’t you put in any effort…as if making life work as best they can wasn’t an effort. Your experiences are the end all, so it should work, and you deliberately put people who are under attack on the defensive to force it to be true. You forcibly challenge them to prove your wrong. The people suffering from psychic/supernatural attack are trying to cope with everyday life survival, they need serious help, not games…investing energy into something that does not work is just more energy depletion. It’s called honoring and respecting the self (how that is negative I have no idea). People who are under attack are expected to prove why they should have their needs respected…how in the hell do you prove that, especially when the consequences are flat out rejected as happening in reality.

Well, forcing individuals to defend themselves on why they should have their experiences and needs respected works as intended…shuts up people suffering attacks real well…can’t move through something or take responsibility without acknowledging it exists. No focus, energy stops flowing, blocks form. Since you can’t defend yourself, you end up playing a game that doesn’t work which causes you to lose more energy (and that is what I call being positive for the hell of being positive). That is what I call positive for the hell of being positive. Tends to tinkle you off after a while (That is the point, God gave us the power to become angry as a pain receptor to warn us when our value is being diminished…that isn’t a negative thing).

Two things just occured to me today...You are looking at the external and seeing different things instead of looking Internally and seeing the same thing (so sorry if I'm talking over your head again). You're self focused and external.
quote:
You are NOT the only one suffering being on this planet! Why should we focus on you?

And since I'm the only one who has and still does yell back, you think I'm only talking about myself in the present. You assume because other people being attacked didn't open their mouths, you didn't do anything wrong, didn't hurt them...Didn't matter...oh the sound of invisible people. No, don't worry, your "help" had a blanket effect on a lot of people being attacked, it shut them up and drove them off. They couldn't cope with being attacked by negs and being attacked by their "help."

Here let me help, since you so obviously need a map to connect the dots...I don't want the spotlight on me. I want the spotlight on you and how your actions affect others. And you, a whole lot of you have been asking for it for a while.
 

Now I wonder how much of this you actually read?



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Dark Knight
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« Reply #110 on: February 06, 2004, 15:56:37 »

quote:
It occurs to me that if you go to see a doctor about a problem, and you don't like the diagnosis, you always have the choice to go and see another doctor. Just because the first doctor didn't give good advice doesn't mean he requires your frequent visits back to his office for the purpose of telling him how wrong he was.


This is Robert Bruce's website...people who are under attack come here for help, and the actions of many of you have not only caused more harm than good, it has put them in the position a neg wants and needs for total subjagation...isolated, unvalidated, and unheard.

You don't have to be a doctor or a nurse, but if you can't even act respectfully in a hospital, find another job.


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Akensai
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« Reply #111 on: February 06, 2004, 17:19:43 »

quote:
This is Robert Bruce's website...people who are under attack come here for help, and the actions of many of you have not only caused more harm than good, it has put them in the position a neg wants and needs for total subjagation...isolated, unvalidated, and unheard.


I have been thinking about this and I think I can see the point Dark Knight wants to make more clearly now.

Perhaps, if you want to help someone you don't go and tell him he is wrong, regardless of him being actually wrong or not. Let’s say a person is wrong, then when he doesn’t accept your advice, but you still want to help, at least be there for him and if you really think he is wrong try to carefully turn him in the right direction.

Still I also think having problems doesn’t mean you can go and insult people and act in disregard of their feelings (as I in my opinion Dark Knight did a few times), even if they don’t give the help you need. (Taken that their intentions are indeed good)

Just point out why you think they are wrong, just talk and work it out.
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Dark Knight
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« Reply #112 on: February 06, 2004, 18:16:51 »

Akensai

There has to be compromise on both sides, not one. The people being attacked have become compromise slaves as one person on this site coined it. It isn't right to do it to anyone, but it is devastating to do it to a person who entire sense of self is being compromised by an invading neg.

Akensai, many people under attack have tried talking and they've been rebuked, made fun of, laughed at, hurt, and ignored. The suffering above all need dignity and their rights (boundaries) reinforced not decimated further by the people trying to "help."

People suffering attacks like these are at their weakest, they need justice and to be listened to. Without it, they are pushed aside unseen and invisible.

This planet is going to reach a point where you can't walk away from everything you don't want to deal with. You can deal with it now, while you still have safety, respect, and freedom, or wait until it's all gone and try then.

Akensai, I can see you are trying to understand, but if you don't listen to people, and it causes them suffering, respect is not owed to you. That is how you learn where the boundaries are, that is the warning sign you need to see and pay attention to. Please think about it.


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kakkarot
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« Reply #113 on: February 06, 2004, 19:10:58 »

then don't be a slave. combat itself has so many variables to it that asking for help over the net is, obviously, going to get you some advice that's not helpful and even some advice that's counterproductive. most of us here don't know certain specifics or variables in your situation (or the situations of other people who post their problems here) for us to give perfect, 100% accurate techniques and understanding to people whom we've never seen before.

the best we can do is TRY to help them by going over what they've said and trying to come up with a "solution" based on that. of course, what would you tell a scrawny computer nerd to do if the captain of the football team was going to paste him after school? and that's the problem that we have to face when giving advice: the person in need of the advice is at a sore disadvantage and couldn't neccessarily implement our advice anyway. they don't know astral combat, they don't know how to shield, they don't even know how to run.

so any help we do try to give them has to be basic enough for them to be able to try it, but effective enough for them to get results. unfortunately though, there aren't any "universal" things that can be done for all situations, coupled with the fact that there are few easy but effective techniques that work in even most situations let alone against powerful attackers.

we try to help people where we can, but we can't solve their problems. we try to give them not only hope, but also resources, understanding, techniques, and sometimes references to other people/places who might be able to help them further. but seeing as how there is apparently a shortage of people who can project and fight off someone else's negs for them, you have to realize that the people with problems can't rely solely upon the people trying to help.

i don't know if what i've written is dealing with what you are talking about dk, but i guess i'm just confused on what you're trying to say.

~kakkarot
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Ramiel
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« Reply #114 on: February 06, 2004, 20:13:21 »

quote:

YES!!! Another Post for you, but really could have said a little more than that one-liner?




Of course. I just didnt want to input my energy into a thread of negativity. Each page you bicker and fight like school children. I just wanted to state something supportive and positive without bringing anyone down.

Fact of the matter is, you all should look at yourselves and ask yourselves why you're acting the way you are, how you can better yourself via your views and attitudes, and how you can grow from this point.

I'm not going to direct my comments to any specific party. That will just provoke people to start targetting their flames at me, what a waste of time.

Can't we all grow up and act accordingly?
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kiauma
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« Reply #115 on: February 06, 2004, 20:35:43 »

Good points Ramiel.  For myself, as I have already explained I know why I am here.  I own my own intent, and am committed to seeing it through to it's conclusion - whatever that may be.

I think of myself as positive, but I do not shy away from conflict, as I have also shown.  This does not make me a school child, this makes me a school adult. [Cheesy]  I know I have much to gain from this interaction, so I gladly am myself in the service of myself and others.

For now, I will simply let people have their say.  After all, it's only right - right, Ramiel?

I bid you peace.
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Ramiel
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« Reply #116 on: February 06, 2004, 20:40:34 »

Unfortunatly you are correct.

Thus all I can hope to do is post messages that work to assist people in changing their perspective, but in the end its up to the individual to want to change.

As long as people can look at themselves and see their flaws (including their actions in this thread) then they may feel a desire to heal them.

I hope I havn't been too vague.
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kiauma
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« Reply #117 on: February 06, 2004, 20:50:00 »

Answer me this Ramiel - Why must souls be evolved?  Why didn't God just make them the way he wanted them?

Perhaps if you think about this you will have a little more compassion and less judgement for those of us in the trenches.  [Wink]
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Dark Knight
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« Reply #118 on: February 06, 2004, 21:09:21 »

Kakkarot,

I am not a slave, Kakkarot, I fight the slavery every time I open my mouth. And like it or not, there are not many places to go for refuge when under attack. Who's abandoning who?

No, you're right, each situation has to be taken on it's own merits. And yes you're right, people under attack need to depend on help not be dependent on it. But the depend portion hasn't been an option to many people who come here under severe attack.

People under attack have been put on the defensive and given the responsiblity to prove and justify why their feelings need respect and understanding. This is a devastating thing to do to any human being under any kind of attack, physical, spiritual or otherwise. People don't have to give a reason to feel, they are human that is all they need. And feeling anger, fear, or sorrow is not negative, it is part of moving through the healing process. Everytime feelings are challenged and put on the defensive for unreasonable reasons the healing process comes to a dead stop. Then the person under attack is blamed for not getting over it, and it's not their fault. They're trying to take responsiblity by moving through it and identifying everything and their blocked every step of the way.

Kakkarot, I have sympathy for you confusion, and I don't expect you to get it in a second...I DO expect you to work on it. You are not under attack, you'll probably share the latest "I got over this horrible situation" story with us, the majority of your boundaries are intact (unless you are not sharing something), and your sense of self is there...there is simply no excuse. You're perfectly capable of learning how/where you drop the anvil.

Learning how to navigate boundaries is difficult, isn't it? How would you feel if you were trying to learn how to navigate these boundaries, were under attack, felt in fear of your life, and received no understanding or good support? You aren't going to die if you have to learn how to effectively compromise.


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Ramiel
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« Reply #119 on: February 06, 2004, 21:18:15 »

quote:
Originally posted by kiauma

Answer me this Ramiel - Why must souls be evolved?  Why didn't God just make them the way he wanted them?

Perhaps if you think about this you will have a little more compassion and less judgement for those of us in the trenches.  [Wink]



"He" did make them the way "he" wanted them. By having a basic soul remain imperfect, its evolution - which consisted of acquiring experience, emotions, the enduring of hardships, etc. which would thusly make it perfect. From here it can join with the Creator and the Creator gets what it wanted in the first place. To feel what the previously imperfect soul felt.

I'm not judging - that is not my intent. I'm simply providing opinion based upon what I have read in the hope that some of you will come to terms and stop bickering. It just seems like a waste of time and energy to me. Time and energy that could be placed into other areas.

Finally, please dont presume that I'm not "in the trenches" with you. I have done many things in many lifetimes on this planet, and I am no stranger to adversity and conflict. I just think you should be attacking negs, not one another.

Regards,

-Alex
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SpectralDragon
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« Reply #120 on: February 06, 2004, 23:05:19 »

I believe this discussion has gone on long enough with people attacking each other on both sides. Can't we talk about this like adults now? Attacks on each other gets nobody ANYWHERE. Period. This thread has gone on long enough for me to see that neither side is going to listen to the other side. If we can't be responsible then we can't get anywhere here.

Well now that I said my bit of bickering I think I will get to the subject at hand [Wink]

If you are going to help someone then you have to put both feet in. What I am hearing here is that people only want to do it with one foot in, afraid they will get involved. Such people are not fit to help others in PSD. I am not bashing such people as everyone has thier strengths and weaknesses. This is not yours if you cannot put both feet in.
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shedt
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« Reply #121 on: February 06, 2004, 23:30:33 »

I personally disagree with that.

If i need help, it could be simple as just a friend to talk too. maybe somone just needs someone to talk about things with. Maybe someone needs help with a attack.

Please define "help"
and what constitutes how much someone helps too be "putting both feet in"
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« Reply #122 on: February 07, 2004, 01:47:59 »

quote:
Originally posted by shedt

I personally disagree with that.

If i need help, it could be simple as just a friend to talk too. maybe somone just needs someone to talk about things with. Maybe someone needs help with a attack.

Please define "help"
and what constitutes how much someone helps too be "putting both feet in"



I know what you are saying, but I am talking help strictly in the Psychic help department[Wink] Putting both feet in means you are going into it without regret and without backing out when it gets tough on you personally.
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« Reply #123 on: February 07, 2004, 05:18:22 »

I agree SpecralDragon, this post has gone on for far too long. The fact of the matter is, no matter how we look at it, there will always be people who pick side A of the argument, and there will always be people who pick side B. The point is, we have to respect each others' views on this and on everything else. I agree with different aspects from each side of the argument. When I deal with psychic attackers that are human, I do not attack the human. I attack the energies behind the human that are perpetuating the attacks. Then I deal with the human by telling them that what they were doing was costing them energy and counterproductive to them and to everyone around them. In short, lately, when I am dealing with a human attacker and their victim, I try to help both. It's only fair. When we punish people in our cour systems, the goal is to take them out of society, and help them become a productive member of society. However, jail does not always do this, and not every punishment works this way. Some people simply don't realize the connections behind certain things, and it makes them act in ways that can be harmful to others. Not everyone thinks logically or rationally, and that's the REAL enemy behind all of this. Please consider that. Spectral is right. Flaming and bashing solves nothing. I have noticed that such things are on the rise on this forum, and that's unfortunate. I will not accuse someone of flaming or bashing; however, if it is necessary, then I'll bring it to their attention via a private message out of respect for them, and I will attempt to explain my opinion to them in a logical, rational, coherent manner. When you deal with people who are causing problems, you've got to look at things from their perspective and understand where they're coming from. This can be very difficult with people or other beings who are unwilling to share their view with you. So sometimes you've got to take certain actions that might make them more willing. This is the hard part. This is right about where the line between unnecessary force or violence meets necessary actions. Maybe there isn't a line at all, but a gradient. Maybe the line moves, depending on the situation.

A certain member actually PMed me yesterday or today and said that it was people like me causing the negativity on the forum to be on the rise. Now, to me that felt like this person was pointing a finger at me and putting blame on me as well as others. What is this accomplishing? I was and am not angry, but I am curious as to what their goal might be. I certainly did not see why I would be one of the people responsible, so I asked the person why they thought this. They did not explain themselves to me at all, at least not in a way that I was able to understand, but I explained my views to them, and I am hoping that they will reply with an explanation behind their points. I have tried to respect the views of others as best I can, and as much as my belief system will allow. And if it won't allow, then I seek to refine it so that it will. But sometimes those answers can't be found on a forum. They have to be found in life.

Just my thoughts.
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kakkarot
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« Reply #124 on: February 07, 2004, 05:26:08 »

quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight

People under attack have been put on the defensive and given the responsiblity to prove and justify why their feelings need respect and understanding.
ok, now i understand that part Smiley thank you. i'm not confused about it anymore

yes that does happen, sadly, where a person is told that perhaps the affliction isn't happening. but sometimes the question about whether the person is sure it's a metaphysical ailment needs to be asked because it is good for a potential helper to know whether an ailment is physical or metaphysical in nature. that simple differentiation can mean vastly different types of help for the person afflicted. and sadly, it is possible for a person to misdiagnos a physical affliction as a metaphysical one and get the wrong treatment just as there are many cases out there where people believe they are being physically afflicted by something when in reality it is metaphysical.

doctors (north american doctors, the ones who rely upon drugs and whatnot) usually can do little to help metaphysical conditions, despite (possibly) having the best intentions in the world for their patients. and in the same way, a metaphysical practicioner can do little to help a physical condition by prescribing metaphysical "cures". (with the exception of some types of instances where the physical body can be used to heal the energy body and vice versa). but if a person who is having neurological problems comes on here and says they are hearing voices and so believe they are being possessed, and we give them all the banishing rituals in the world it's not likely going to help them (unless they merely needed a placebo).

however, you are definatly right in that people who come here should NOT be made to feel like what they are going through isn't happening. i definately agree with that. but they also need the proper methods of help, which we can't always give them.

i'd like to think that i've always posted objective posts which tried to help people understand that there could be alternate explainations to some of the more obscure/vague posts that people have made, but i realize i'm human and i make mistakes and i am a jerk at times [xx(]. (and yes i also realize that i'm not the only one who could be doing this, but i don't like to point fingers, so i won't).

but anyway, no i'm not going to bore you with my problems. i rarely have bothered anyone with them and don't believe that will ever change [|)].

thank you darkknight, for your time in reading my posts and for your time in making yours [Smiley]. i'm going to withdraw from this conversation now since i've got nothing more to say (unless there is something about my post that is confusing or that you would like clarified)

~kakkarot
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