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Author Topic: What's wrong with Psychic Self Defense?  (Read 35700 times)
Fuzziwig
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« Reply #75 on: February 04, 2004, 12:09:07 »

Hello all
My guide will comment on some of the things in previous post.
Quotes in blue and my guide Jopeha in maroon.

Spectral Dragon you say:
Back to edi's subject for a sec.
Typical new age thinking is spirit=love, goodness, and fluffy bunnies (sorry my humor is wierd too.) Therefore, according to this view, "evil spirits" don't exist. I am seeing a lot of this in this thread, that all spirits external in the astral plane are all good. What I have noticed is that many new agers come from orthodox christian backgrounds. The idea that god is a being that makes all things for a good purpose, and that trying to astral project or do serious meditation will cause you to be yoked with evil demons. A friend of mine for example has avoided astral projection for a long time because he was afraid that it was demonic or he would get involved with demons. They still think that way when going into new age thinking. In order to deal with the nagging doubt that they might be getting involved with demons, they just say that demons and negative psychic forces do not exist. This is not the case. Evil exists because of life's will to exist, and becuase we chose to exist we are not perfect.

The idea that the words as expressed by the guides should have basis in newage thinking is simply not true. The guides have expressed themselves to inform the members of alternate approaches to dealing with 'negs' or negative spirits. The reason we do this, is because of a range of ideas that seems to be focused on slaying and vanquishing the negative spirits, who only wish to be helped out of their misfortune. We dont see a reason to fight these spirits, as they only seek help and are met by this attitude that inflicts them with more anger and suffering. In no way can it be benificial to start a campaign on principals based on destruction and harm on negative spirits, as they too deserve to be treated with the same kind of understanding as the positive spirits. The negative spirits may not have the same benificial approach in seeking contact to gain help, but that shouldnt exclude them from being able to recieve it. Many spirits find themselves in a very difficult position, where they cannot find the outside understanding of their suffering, and they are left to solve their misfurtune on themselves. Not only can this be difficult, but also take a very long time before they are properly healed to reach the next stage in their existance. We dont encourage people to turn the other cheak to the attacks that they are being victims of, as that would only make the attacks go on, till the spirit had reached resolution. We find it a good idea to communicate with the spirit to reach an understanding of the problem that the spirit might have. Only in this instance would it be possible to solve the spirits problem and stop the attacks in the same process. It would be pointless to reach an understanding of the problem without the communication to the spirit, and this is why we encourage people to talk to the spirit and listen to what is said by the spirit. It may not be possible for the person to communicate with the spirit, and this is why it would be a good idea to seek help from others with these abilities so a resolution in the spirit can be made.

I know that the guides are willing to give further insights into these things and so the members are welcome to ask about them, if not through their own guide if such a contact exists.

Light and Compassion
Fuzziwig
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kiauma
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« Reply #76 on: February 04, 2004, 12:59:10 »

Hello Fuzziwig,

How do you, or your guide rather, define love?
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« Reply #76 on: February 04, 2004, 12:59:10 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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kiauma
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« Reply #77 on: February 04, 2004, 13:08:39 »

"how dare you be so comfortable at the expense of others..."

What an odd and perplexing reply.  This makes a couple of assumptions, that I am 'comfortable', and that this comfort is somehow derived from, or otherwise at, the cost of someone else.

Those are pretty big assumptions DK.  Care to share where you got that idea (presumably) about me?

Because I'll tell you, I have plenty of things I could be doing besides trying to route your self-evident pain.  In response for my troubles, you hint that you could commit suicide, and that this will somehow be caused by me?  Also, that it will 'cost me someday'!  Why in the world would someone make such an assumption, such an accusation - such a threat(?!)?  

Now, I know I have bordered on making this personal and for that I feel very badly - but frankly, if you are so unbalanced that a comment by someone on a 'net forum, someone who you have never met and have no idea if he is 'comfortable' or not, at the expense of others or not, could possibly result in your demise, whether physically, menatally, or spiritually, then I think you are REALLY in the wrong place!  It is obviously very dangerous for you.

Now, I'll admit I'm learning a tremendous amount about negativity here, both from you and your friends and my reaction to it - it has value for me, and I am certainly not in fear of commiting suicide over it.  If, as it appears, you see no value in conversing with me, or even negative value - possible suicide - then I suggest you think of your choices.  

Given your statements, it just sounds prudent.
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Dark Knight
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« Reply #78 on: February 04, 2004, 14:01:24 »

Now that is comedy...

I inserted the comment about suicide deliberately. No it's not me, I was referring to someone else back in post. Here's the quote:

 
quote:
This kind of behavior takes its toll after time…Fuzzy, Sam, during the Christmas Holiday I exchanged emails with a former member of this site who was on the verge of suicide. She couldn’t do it anymore, couldn’t cope with the attacks and try to engage the forced defensiveness of the love and light loonies. That is the consequence this behavior creates. Hey when you convince people they have to prove they need their experiences respected, and that person can’t, the logic becomes “I don’t deserve respect.” I showed her something, I won’t say what. She wrote back saying that I had confirmed something she had been suspecting and it made her feel better. I gave the suggestion, she pulled herself up (she deserves the credit not me, I only validated something she had already thought of).


Thank you for proving two things to me...you don't read my posts, and everything I say is thought of in reference to myself...whether it is the gov't, the greys, the attacks or whatever.

Just to let you know because I know Spectral is tired of repeating himself...I am just fine, thank you.

Want don't you actually go back and read that post I quoted from. Maybe then you'll know what I am talking about when I quote Mother Theresa "how dare you be so comfortable at the expense of others."


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kiauma
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« Reply #79 on: February 04, 2004, 14:12:57 »

Ah!  I was mistaken.  Thank you for pointing it out to me.  

Ya know, I apologise.  Everyday it's the same thing - people moan "my life is crapola because of 'X'".  It gets monotonous.  I do get lazy after a while - people like you keep me sharp.

As to the rest, it is still just assumption and projection on your part, irregardless of what I am really thinking.

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« Reply #79 on: February 04, 2004, 14:12:57 »



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Nay
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« Reply #80 on: February 04, 2004, 14:51:31 »

I cringe when I read about people speaking of commiting sucide, especially if they come across with.. You better change your tune or am going to commit sucide and it will be all your fault..*shiver*

At the age of 8 tru 9, I was physically and mentally abused by a very disturbed step mother.  She ultimately committed suicide, and I am going to be graphic here, because I think it needs to be told in complete detail.  

First she took all the savings my father had put away for his family,(thousands!) and gave it to her boys.  She got her hair permed, put on her wedding dress, took many, many pills and wrote a letter...her writing got worse as the pills started to take their effect.  Then she put two garbage bags around her head and tied them around her neck. She went to MY room, layed down on my bed and that is where my father found her.....her hands were frozen in claws up towards her face, in a futile attempt to ripp the bag off but the pills did their job too well.  He had to cut the ropes that she had used.  I will not describe what she looked like, but my father will have that vision for the rest of his life.

I wrote this post because, in that letter she blamed me...a child for the reason of taking her life.  That was a heavy load to carry, I say was because I dropped those feelings of guilt many years ago..thank goodness, who knows where I could have went from there.  I am glad I chose the high road and saved myself from which could have been years of self abusive tendacies.  Oh, I was angry..very angry for well...up until just a few months ago. (Thanks Maya [Wink]) When I got older I did see that there were many lessons there.

So, be careful when you play the blame game...ESPECIALLY when suicide is envolved.  I personally think it is a very cowardly act and very, very selfish.  Most people just use it as a way to get the attention of others, and really have no intentions of going thru with it.  That is going to the lowest of lows, which I would call, emotionally black mail.  But before I get yelled at..[^] I will also say that it is a indication of someone who is crying out for help and feels this is the last rabbit that they can pull out of the hat.

Kiuma, please do not let this cover you in guilt...tis not you.

I have told DK of my abuse, not in the details but the answer I got back was....  Couldn't have been that tough. And some things should be spoken out against...assuming you ever had a backbone to do it or ever believed in something.

Oh..wait, there is more....[Wink]

Honey, if you think that's the worse that can happen, God help you.
What you've described sounds abusive, not horrific. Try being able to tell the diference.


Of course I am not going to tell every single day of my life and what happpened...but to me..it was horrific, and have the scars to prove it.

Nay

I see that once again, while I post others have posted...good to hear that.  
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kiauma
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« Reply #81 on: February 04, 2004, 15:24:24 »

Well, that certainly demonstrates DK's authority on compassion!  [B)]

That is horriffic, Nay.  That is a terrible thing to have suffered.  Your step mother was very disturbed, not just in the way she tried to end her pain, but in how she obviously meant to spread it around when she went.

God bless you.
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Dark Knight
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« Reply #82 on: February 04, 2004, 16:04:00 »

You're not a little girl anymore, Nay, you're an adult with responsibilities. You can't cower in terror and hold people back because of your fear.

And you were also the one telling people being attacked that you could probably take on our negs with a chicken bone.

I'm wondering how it would've made you feel if I went back in time to the point you just described and held a chicken bone in front of your face telling you, "this will make it all better."

If that puts me in the gutter, where does it put you? Move through and face your fears and your responsibility or get the hell out of the way.

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kiauma
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« Reply #83 on: February 04, 2004, 16:19:09 »

From Nay:
I say was because I dropped those feelings of guilt many years ago..thank goodness, who knows where I could have went from there. I am glad I chose the high road and saved myself from which could have been years of self abusive tendacies. Oh, I was angry..very angry for well...up until just a few months ago. (Thanks Maya ) When I got older I did see that there were many lessons there.

From DK:
You can't cower in terror and hold people back because of your fear.  

Move through and face your fears and your responsibility or get the hell out of the way.


Sounds like somebody else is not reading posts... and is still angry...
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Nay
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« Reply #84 on: February 04, 2004, 16:22:03 »

Lordy...this is bordering on the absurd..

Yes, I know I am adult and had you read my post you have seen that I have overcome much.

The chicken bone comment, was me saying if I had enough belief in the chicken bone, it would help...don't you see?  it's not the bone, but the thought behind it, that does all the work.  
 
quote:
I'm wondering how it would've made you feel if I went back in time to the point you just described and held a chicken bone in front of your face telling you, "this will make it all better."

I was a child and probably would have thought you to be nuts to toss a chicken bone at me..[^]

 
quote:
If that puts me in the gutter, where does it put you? Move through and face your fears and your responsibility or get the hell out of the way.
I honestly have no idea what this means...   That is why I was trying to help you,(back when this all started) because I HAD faced mine..  I can't help you, because there is something going on with you, that I feel has nothing to do with Negs but your own mind.  And until you see it for what it is, it will haunt you till the end of your days.

Nay
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kiauma
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« Reply #85 on: February 04, 2004, 19:27:49 »

Hey!  How about some comic relief everyone!?

I thought so.  [^]

http://www.onion.com/4005/news1.html
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Nay
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« Reply #86 on: February 04, 2004, 19:32:28 »

Hahahahahaha....white hot fury!  I have to admit, I yell a bit at the people who act as if they are driving with their eyes closed..[Tongue]

Thanks for the laugh, Kiauma [Cheesy]

Nay
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LordoftheBunnies
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« Reply #87 on: February 04, 2004, 21:09:49 »

If these negs are the spirits of dead people, then personally I would be wary thinking that they simply want help.  Murderers, rapists and tyrants aren't going to be any more loving in death than in life, and probably aren't particularily interested in our help either, except in the sense of using our good intentions against us.

Still, using the "slash and kill" approach to deal with criminals is probably not the best approach.
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SpectralDragon
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« Reply #88 on: February 04, 2004, 21:25:42 »

quote:
Originally posted by LordoftheBunnies

If these negs are the spirits of dead people, then personally I would be wary thinking that they simply want help.  Murderers, rapists and tyrants aren't going to be any more loving in death than in life, and probably aren't particularily interested in our help either, except in the sense of using our good intentions against us.

Still, using the "slash and kill" approach to deal with criminals is probably not the best approach.



Oh my gosh Cris I can't believe you went through with that name. LOL you need a pic of that bunny from monty python.
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kiauma
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« Reply #89 on: February 05, 2004, 02:02:31 »

Oh yes!  Now that is the fluffy bunny of fluffy bunnies! [Cheesy]
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kakkarot
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« Reply #90 on: February 05, 2004, 16:57:00 »

well dk, your posts can be confusing at times. first you go on complaining about how bad off you are, and then you pretty much say "well bully to you, suck it up" when others say they've got it hard.

(i'm not one who's having trouble distinguishing myself from others, and even going beyond myself to think about others first dark knight, just so you know [Smiley].)

many members of these forums have gone through a bit of hell in their own lives. at one point in my life i was going to kill myself because i was scared that i was going to loose control of myself and hurt someone around me. i've been through many many psychic attacks in my life time and i've cowered from none of them, i've even stood up to God Himself on a couple of occassions when we had a ... "difference of opinion", but the one thing about my life that does scares me even to this day is that i could loose control and hurt someone else.

you complained that nay's attacks are nothing compared to what you've had to go through. i say that your attacks are nothing compared to what i've had to go through. does that mean i should look down on you and be mean to you if you try to help me but fail? i say no. when people try to help me, even if they fail to be able to do so, i still thank them for the kindness they displayed in trying. perhaps you could try that too [Smiley].

may you find wellness in your heart and in your mind ms. knight [Smiley].

(and one last thing for some clarity: no, ms. knight, i don't look down on you for the attacks you've been going through. i've felt pity that you've been having it so hard and i had now way of being able to help. i feel that way about a lot of people who post on the psychic self defense forum, and for a while i stayed away from this forum because i felt i could be of no use because i cannot astral project to people and take away their problems for them. but i've realized since then that not everyone needs someone else to "slay their demons" for them, that some people just need some good advice or even just an uplifting comment. granted, i'm not perfect and at times i post out of frustration and anger, but i still try to help people whenever i can. and the people who have said "thank you" to me showed more than enough appreciation for me to want to keep trying [Smiley])

~kakkarot
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kiauma
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« Reply #91 on: February 05, 2004, 19:03:11 »

I agree kakkarot.  Compassion is an identification that we are all in this together, and that we are all worthy of love and care.

I am very concerned about people who try to wear their pain like some kind of crown.  They are always saying their pain is worse than anyone elses, and demanding you agree.

Very sad.
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Dark Knight
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« Reply #92 on: February 05, 2004, 20:19:49 »

Ready for round 3….

So if you do something that causes harm to someone it’s OK because your intentions were good? You meant well and wanted to help so the harm you did was inconsequential? You can have the best of intentions and still cause considerable harm to someone.

Like dropping an anvil on someone’s foot and saying, “I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to drop this anvil on your foot, therefore your foot shouldn’t hurt and you shouldn’t get upset over it because I meant well.”

Keep dropping the anvil on the person’s foot repeatedly, time after time…the person has to worry about the attacks and you? No room to walk away at all? That’s your idea of helping or support? And on top of it, you can’t figure what part of the puzzle you’re missing so you want the person you’re dropping the anvil on to compromise by putting up with it instead of you compromising and learning.

I don’t give a damn what you’re intentions are. If you are missing information, it’s your responsibility to stand up and take claim of the lesson. You don’t make it the responsibility of the person you’re dropping the anvil on. What effect do you think your actions have over time, what kind of impact do you think you impart?

Nay’s mother can commit suicide and blame her, affecting her life for a long time to come, but your actions can’t have the same effect on someone else? Even to the point of driving them to suicidal tendencies…you have no responsibility, that’s what you’re telling me!

You’re not a child being blamed by an adult, you are adults blaming temporarily weaker adults.

You don’t have to learn how to AP or fight negs to be of help to people. The only thing you have to fight and learn more about is your own ignorance about the needs and rights of others. That is not an unreasonable lesson to learn. It doesn’t have to be done in the PSD forum…but it has to be done, you can’t run away from this forever, and your fear is not going to drive this argument away.
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kiauma
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« Reply #93 on: February 05, 2004, 21:00:29 »

Like dropping an anvil on someone’s foot...

Why didn't you use the  example of, say... driving a spike through someone's head?

I would comment on the rest but it's just as poorly conceived.
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« Reply #94 on: February 05, 2004, 21:14:34 »

Yeah..I am sorry, but that just didn't make sense.  And the looney toons music kept running around in my head making it even more difficult.

I not even sure whom the post was directed towards...?

Nay



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kakkarot
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« Reply #95 on: February 05, 2004, 22:05:29 »

how did anyone here hurt you, DK?

~kakkarot
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James S
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« Reply #96 on: February 06, 2004, 01:02:23 »

quote:
Originally posted by Nay

Yeah..I am sorry, but that just didn't make sense.  And the looney toons music kept running around in my head making it even more difficult.

I not even sure whom the post was directed towards...?

Nay


Well, all I can say to that is BEEP BEEP

Umm...DK, could you please rethink and rephrase that last post, coz...I just don't get it??

It occurs to me that if you go to see a doctor about a problem, and you don't like the diagnosis, you always have the choice to go and see another doctor. Just because the first doctor didn't give good advice doesn't mean he requires your frequent visits back to his office for the purpose of telling him how wrong he was. Chances are you'd be getting in the way of other patients who are satisfied with the treatments he's given them.
[?]
James.
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Nagual
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« Reply #97 on: February 06, 2004, 05:10:42 »

quote:
So if you do something that causes harm to someone it’s OK because your intentions were good? You meant well and wanted to help so the harm you did was inconsequential?

So the solution is to never help anybody I guess...
quote:
Like dropping an anvil on someone’s foot and saying, “I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to drop this anvil on your foot, therefore your foot shouldn’t hurt and you shouldn’t get upset over it because I meant well.”

The "your foot shouldn’t hurt" part is purposefuly stupid.
quote:
Keep dropping the anvil on the person’s foot repeatedly, time after time…the person has to worry about the attacks and you?.

Personal advice: move your foot after the first anvil drop...
quote:
I don’t give a damn what you’re intentions are. If you are missing information, it’s your responsibility to stand up and take claim of the lesson.

Asking for help is your responsability too.  You know that people will help as much as they can.

Being under attack is no excuse for being rude.  You are NOT the only one suffering being on this planet!  Why should we focus on you?  There are thousands/millions of people in much worse situation.  Children working in mines, or used as sex-slaves; etc...

You can't just ask for help and then tell them to get lost because their help sucks...  If you don't accept the possibility to loose, don't play.

Sorry, but I had my share of whining for more than 20 years through my mother...  It was her way to grab people's attention I guess.  At first, everybody was "Oh, poor you", "Oh, so sad", etc...  Then it would be "As usual", "Once again", "You asked for it".  The worst part is that, in the end, she was really asking for it (in order to be able to complain after)... [xx(]
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« Reply #98 on: February 06, 2004, 05:54:29 »

I think I could summarize this entire post up to a few sentences: Do what you think is right. It's what we were meant to do, and is why we were given our own minds.
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Dark Knight
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« Reply #99 on: February 06, 2004, 08:33:26 »

quote:
Personal advice: move your foot after the first anvil drop...


Uh, no, YOU learn, people under attack are not responsible for themselves and you. You need to become more aware of your surroundings and how your actions affect others, and if you've overcome what you claim, that shouldn't be impossible. Try using some of that positive attitude you claim you have and set your mind to it.

And when help was asked for we got it from Ender, or Sunnyblue, or Tayesin, or Spectral, or Bluelite, or Ardane...and when we told the others their comments were not helpful and why, they didn't stop, listen, or care. People suffering attacks were treated rudely, cricised to the point of forcibly being shut up,...and now you're on the receiving end and you don't like it (you're not even under attack and have alledgedly gotten over so much...what the hell is getting in your way in overcoming your failed shortcomings).


Well we'll try again, not that's gonna work, you guys are way too self focused to get this or be any effective help with your bad negative attitudes:

 
quote:
People under attack have a hard time making life work and have to compromise a tremendous amount of themselves just to make it through the basics of life,…have to fight sometimes to get the energy to get up and in the morning. Then on top of all that, they have to endure the abuse of people wanting to force fit their experiences onto theirs. When you tell them their ideas aren’t working, you’re told no, you’re just being irresponsible, or just being negative, why don’t you put in any effort…as if making life work as best they can wasn’t an effort. Your experiences are the end all, so it should work, and you deliberately put people who are under attack on the defensive to force it to be true. You forcibly challenge them to prove your wrong. The people suffering from psychic/supernatural attack are trying to cope with everyday life survival, they need serious help, not games…investing energy into something that does not work is just more energy depletion. It’s called honoring and respecting the self (how that is negative I have no idea). People who are under attack are expected to prove why they should have their needs respected…how in the hell do you prove that, especially when the consequences are flat out rejected as happening in reality.

Well, forcing individuals to defend themselves on why they should have their experiences and needs respected works as intended…shuts up people suffering attacks real well…can’t move through something or take responsibility without acknowledging it exists. No focus, energy stops flowing, blocks form. Since you can’t defend yourself, you end up playing a game that doesn’t work which causes you to lose more energy (and that is what I call being positive for the hell of being positive). That is what I call positive for the hell of being positive. Tends to tinkle you off after a while (That is the point, God gave us the power to become angry as a pain receptor to warn us when our value is being diminished…that isn’t a negative thing).
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