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Author Topic: 0 = infinity  (Read 24127 times)
dainch
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« on: September 30, 2007, 05:23:25 »

Lately i have been coming up with some pretty off the wall yet intriguing thoughts on our universe and the laws governing it. I am nothing close to a scientist im only still in high school. First off it is agreed that math is the most purest of sciences and it is also known by everyone on these forums that everything is made of energy. So to begin i would like to propose the theory that 0 is equal to infinity. There are many ideologies that can prove this. Don't believe me? Answer this how many numbers are there between 1 and 2. Your first answer would probably be none, but there are in fact infinite numbers between 1 and 2. Also there is no such thing as being nonexistent. Everything is infinite and everything is energy. Energy cannot be destroyed once it is harnessed nor can it be created, It only exists. Therefore nonexistence (meaning 0 or nothing) is equal to infinity. It is all energy. Since nothing is not made of energy, everything from thoughts to the television is made up of energy, controlled by energy, harnesses energy, and is infinite.
Please add anything you want when you reply, any extra thoughts on this theory, or any comments. Thank You
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Sharpe
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« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2007, 12:56:34 »

Look, this is gonna tinkle you off, but there is no infinity.
Infinity is just an idea.
Numbers are made by humans, so stating something as inifinite is nothing more than an idea.
Because in fact, numbers do not exist.
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« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2007, 12:56:34 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

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Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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Awakened_Mind
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« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2007, 15:16:06 »

Well 0 is nothing and infinite is never ending. They are more opposite than equivalent.

-AM
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Mydral
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« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2007, 19:24:02 »

Uhm.... your logic is somewhat wrong.
Your trying to prove that an apple is green by saying that an orange is orange....... your arguments do not support your thesis at all, they are just random statements  sad sorry man.
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Zephyrus
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« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2007, 20:27:50 »

So, in brief, you're trying to tell us that "if something doesn't exist, it is infinite"?
Well, in a way it is, but in another way it isn't. I'd say that even speaking of something nonexisting makes it exist in a sort of way:P

I wouldn't advise you to mix your thought with mathemathical facts. Maths is very precise and conslusions like:
"There are 0 numbers between 1 and 2, but there are also infinitely many number between 1 and 2, so 0=infinity" are wrong.
It's like saying that dog is a mammal, cat is a mammal so dog=cat.
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« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2007, 20:27:50 »



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Sharpe
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« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2007, 20:57:09 »

So, in brief, you're trying to tell us that "if something doesn't exist, it is infinite"?
Well, in a way it is, but in another way it isn't. I'd say that even speaking of something nonexisting makes it exist in a sort of way:P

Zephyr, this is what I was pointing at, if you speak of something nonexisting, it's just an "idea" not real.
That is why infinity is just an idea, because it can not exist.
(or it can, but I highly doubt it)
(scratch that, it can't)
(or..., nvm)
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dainch
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« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2007, 05:03:41 »

Look, this is gonna tinkle you off, but there is no infinity.
Infinity is just an idea.
Numbers are made by humans, so stating something as inifinite is nothing more than an idea.
Because in fact, numbers do not exist.

if you are a member of these forums you know full well the power of the human mind and the fact that if enough mind power is directed toward an idea then that idea becomes a reality. Concepts and ideas are just as real as tangible objects except that they do not exist on the physical plan they exist on the mental plane.
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dainch
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« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2007, 05:12:17 »

So, in brief, you're trying to tell us that "if something doesn't exist, it is infinite"?
Well, in a way it is, but in another way it isn't. I'd say that even speaking of something nonexisting makes it exist in a sort of way:P

I wouldn't advise you to mix your thought with mathemathical facts. Maths is very precise and conslusions like:
"There are 0 numbers between 1 and 2, but there are also infinitely many number between 1 and 2, so 0=infinity" are wrong.
It's like saying that dog is a mammal, cat is a mammal so dog=cat.

I was giving an example of the non existence of any real difference between 0 and infinity in mathematical terms. So if that was unclear let me try something else. What i am trying to say overall is that there is no such thing as non-existence there is only energy. Energy cannot be created or destroyed therefore it is infinite (Energy has existed, does exist, and always will exist according to our established laws of the universe). The main reason i feel that i cannot communicate this theory to you precisely is because of language since language itself is limited in the expression of an individual. And referring to the mammal comment the analogy would be dog is energy, cat is energy so dog and cat are, in terms of energy, the same.
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Awakened_Mind
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« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2007, 06:53:17 »

Well I think first we need to rise above the dualism of existence and 'nonexistence'. Our language is limited, but we can't blame it. You must use what you have to do what you can in the time that you've got.

It's becoming more important for our species to understand that everything is one. In fact it's essential for our survival. Having said that, it is also important at certain times to discriminate. If someone tells you to go and pick up their dog and you come back with a cat and say "They are both energy, who cares?" I think they'd be a little annoyed. So the understanding everything is one and discrimination between things are both necessary. Not entirely one way or the other. I think that between any dualism there is balance, that's what we should be moving toward.

-AM
« Last Edit: October 02, 2007, 11:00:56 by Awakened_Mind » Logged

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bewarevileye
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« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2007, 23:18:28 »

Life is too short to dwell on such things, I've wasted my time wondering how it was possible for God to have no beginning and no end.  Because there is a verse in the Quran that speaks of how is everywhere and knows everything.  In my opinion, in order for God to have these attributes, he would have to be somehow connected to everything he is aware of.  So in reality there may be a connection between everything that exists, from rocks to hair to everything and cats and dogs.  I've come to the conclusion that God can't possibly have an infinite amount of energy because infinity doesn't end.  He may have a powerful and vast energy but I think he is self contained and doesn't loose energy but all that exists or whatever he creates is just an extension of himself so he isn't loosing any energy at all.  Maybe everything that exists and will ever exist is contained in a big membrane like Brian Green mentioned.

One thing is for sure, I believe behind this illusion we call physical  reality lies  realm where everything is connected.  I felt it first hand, I felt this amazing unexplaining bliss and nirvana that is hard to explain in words during this one morning when I came from running and took a cool shower and laid on my side and imagined myself on a hammock and then felt and heard a white flash bang sound in my head and I could see the whole room more real than normal living day reality I felt truly alive and I look forward to going back to that state.  I saw my arm in front of me and tried to move it but saw a phantom translucent arm move and I was confused because I forgot that I had intentions of projecting.  I was in this membrane, water like membrane of cool amazing energy, I felt myself in the membrane not seen it.  This must be what Hindu and budhist people call enlightenment.  After a few minutes in this state of indescribable bliss I woke up and can still feel the heavenly energy and rested relaxed calmed tranquility.  This wasn't the only time I experienced this, I've also experienced it on an elevator and this lady noticed something about me and smiled and kept staring at me.  That was 2003 and I don't experience it anymore.  I don't know what was special  about that year.  I didn't get injured or nothing physical happened to me so I still don't understand why that year, why did I experience this.  Was it the result of my attempts to project.Huh

I still can't comprehend how God doesn't have a beginning.  In order for something to be conscious of itself that consciousness and awareness must develop sometime during it's existence.  Maybe God existed as some energy that wasn't fully aware but gained aware through ions and ions and ions and ions and ions and ions of time.  Maybe evolving.  If energy just plain and simply exists without a beginning or an end.  Then why shouldn't God be the same???

I don't understand why I didn't remember that I was trying to project or that I had a strong desire to project when I experienced that amazing RTZ OBE in 2003.  I think it may have something to do with memory not being passed on to the other body my consciousness went into.  This could explain why dreams are very real when we are having them but when we wake up in present day reality we barely remember anything about the dreams.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2007, 23:51:42 by bewarevileye » Logged
ismusa
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« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2007, 23:45:35 »



To me the most convincing evidence that everything is interconnected energy wise is the rule of like attracts like which I experienced painfully myself.

If a person has a negative attitude and is having a bad day there day will only get worser and worser until they become positive and get out of the negative frame of mind.
They also call it "like vibrates with like".  If we weren't connected in a deeper level of reality then karma and the evileye should not be able to affect us. 

Criminals who commit terrible crimes get what they deserve down the road in their life and they won't know why they are miserable and misfortune in their lives.
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morning_star
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« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2007, 04:37:59 »

Ignorance plays a huge factor in incomplete ideas.....  Variables should be used only be used to teach high school algebra, not to be applied to fixed laws.  Most people (like someone here) don't understand that they don't know enough to form complete, correct, and logical ideas applicable to the universe.  I see a lot of people look at things, not understand them, and automatically assume they are not important, non existant, or subject to change, when, in fact, they are the opposite.  Then they take these ideas and meld them with other philosophies that seem to come from someone who has been consuming a bit of TetraHydroCannabinol. Smiley  The sooner you realize you don't know or understand most things, the sooner you can sit down with a willing mind and learn the truth.  Until then, you'll just go around in circles chasing a magic dragon.

Edit:  Nevermind that Infinity does exist, Void does exist(as a conceptual word attached to a lack of substance) and ne'er the two shall meet.  In fact, that's what the war is all about, if anyone was paying attention.....You'll understand how void "exists" per say, yet remains a void when it starts to permeate physical reality as we know it.  It won't be pleasant, but we'll get through it.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2007, 04:41:30 by morning_star » Logged

ismusa
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« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2007, 03:55:28 »

Morning Star, Just because someone talks a certain way or thinks a certain way doesn't mean they smoke weed THC.  It's their natural makeup that makes them who they are.  Somethings can't be described in words which is why the person who started this post talked the way he/she did.
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« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2007, 00:34:34 »

Then you did not understand what I said.  It is understandable since I tend to be cryptic due to my poetic nature.  Just think about it some more.  That's what I intended for you to do.
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« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2007, 13:26:24 »

dainch wrote:
Quote
if you are a member of these forums you know full well the power of the human mind and the fact that if enough mind power is directed toward an idea then that idea becomes a reality. Concepts and ideas are just as real as tangible objects except that they do not exist on the physical plan they exist on the mental plane

This is a common belief of AP members, however it is not a requirement. These forums are open to everyone regardless of their beliefs. So long as their posts are not derogatory or inflammatory, they can post as many diverse thoughts and ideas as they want.

These boards are specifically open for debate. so when debate comes, don't get too defensive if some disagree with you. I think disagreement is a great way to better understand things.  wink


morning_star wrote:
Quote
Ignorance plays a huge factor in incomplete ideas..... 

I wonder if you were addressing yourself here...  wink

Quote
Variables should be used only be used to teach high school algebra, not to be applied to fixed laws.  Most people (like someone here) don't understand that they don't know enough to form complete, correct, and logical ideas applicable to the universe.

Mathematics is intricately linked to fixed laws -- both physical and universal.

Quote
The sooner you realize you don't know or understand most things, the sooner you can sit down with a willing mind and learn the truth.

And what "truth" would that be?

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morning_star
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« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2007, 05:32:19 »


morning_star wrote:
I wonder if you were addressing yourself here...  wink


No, I clearly was not. :\ It's not wise to be offended by what I say.  Mostly because I have said nothing offensive but also because it will distract you from what my words truly mean.  If you spent more time thinking about it and attempting to understand it instead of regarding it as foreign and distasteful, you would progress more rapidly, which is what I'm trying to help you do.  Don't scorn the teacher for giving students homework. Neither should you scorn the student who teaches you what he has learned from others.  These concepts are relatively simple if viewed in a positive light.  Change your perception and you can change reality.
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« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2007, 07:33:03 »

Your words insinuate that you are wiser than the rest of us. This is of course not true because wise people do not preach their wisdom, it is clear enough in how they speak and act. Your words put you on a pedestal and lower the rest of us, like you are exposed to some privileged truth that the rest of us are not. All men are equal. This is a truth you have yet to discover, or you would talk to us as equals.

Nietzsche called it "The prejudice of the learned" The learned judge correcetly that people of all ages have believed they knew what was good and evil, praise and blameworthy. But it is a predjudice of the learned that we now know better than any other age."

You say
The sooner you realize you don't know or understand most things, the sooner you can sit down with a willing mind and learn the truth.  Until then, you'll just go around in circles chasing a magic dragon.

Why don't you take your own advice? The world is a reflection of self. Any ignorance you see in somebody else is nothing but ignorance in yourself. So before you think you have the right to instruct me or any other on how to develop spiritually, develop yourself. Truth is seen, not spoken. It's not your words I don't understand, it's the arrogant tone they are written in.

-AM
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« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2007, 13:25:39 »

Actually morning_star I wasn't offended in the least. I found your post condescending and misinformed, which is why I joking threw out the possibility that it could easily be directed at you.

AM made a very good, and accurate, observation: actions speak louder than words.

I think some of what you wrote is possible. I think what you've hinted that you *know* or is *true* is overstated. And before you retort that I'm simply floundering in negativity and close-mindednesss, consider that some here (and many people elsewhere) adhere to the adage: those who talk don't know; those who know don't talk. Silence sometimes speaks louder than words. And often times important points are better understand with very few words.

Quote
Change your perception and you can change reality.

Hmm...apparently you didn't notice the quote under each of my posts...   rolleyes

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« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2007, 20:33:46 »

Lately i have been coming up with some pretty off the wall yet intriguing thoughts on our universe and the laws governing it. I am nothing close to a scientist im only still in high school. First off it is agreed that math is the most purest of sciences and it is also known by everyone on these forums that everything is made of energy. So to begin i would like to propose the theory that 0 is equal to infinity. There are many ideologies that can prove this. Don't believe me? Answer this how many numbers are there between 1 and 2. Your first answer would probably be none, but there are in fact infinite numbers between 1 and 2. Also there is no such thing as being nonexistent. Everything is infinite and everything is energy. Energy cannot be destroyed once it is harnessed nor can it be created, It only exists. Therefore nonexistence (meaning 0 or nothing) is equal to infinity. It is all energy. Since nothing is not made of energy, everything from thoughts to the television is made up of energy, controlled by energy, harnesses energy, and is infinite.
Please add anything you want when you reply, any extra thoughts on this theory, or any comments. Thank You
I like the way you think- I have always equated metaphysical ideas such as infinity with the concept of zero, and found them to match in the way I think: Infinity is neverending possibility, and zero is the total sum of karma; therefore reality=eternal, if you think of Karma as cause and effect, and not a moral law at all.
Hmm... I don't know if what I wrote was clear enough.  huh
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Old Dood
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« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2007, 00:40:33 »

I like the way you think- I have always equated metaphysical ideas such as infinity with the concept of zero, and found them to match in the way I think: Infinity is neverending possibility, and zero is the total sum of karma; therefore reality=eternal, if you think of Karma as cause and effect, and not a moral law at all.
Hmm... I don't know if what I wrote was clear enough.  huh

I 'kinda got it'.  I am not being sarcastic either.  As for the Zero = Nothing part. Zero is Zero.  Nothing is Nothing. When you hear someone call out a score in a sport like 10 to 0 then you hear them say it is 10 to Nothing then that is not correct. For it is Zero...not Nothing. 

Also stating that Zero = No More Karma...then that does make total sense to me. You have reached your own apex of understanding.  Your 'Absolute Zero'.

Now I am wondering If I made any sense...haha!
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Sharpe
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« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2007, 10:42:31 »

Yes, zero is nothing, it's the complete opposite of infinite.
Like binary code: 0 and 1.
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ubiquitous
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« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2007, 17:03:47 »

Clumsy,

We humans have sprouted 0 into the world by contemplating nothing we create something and (0) has done wonders for us!!!!
So its only relationship with infinity is that if all humans were wiped out would it reappear in the future? If Y then
The mathematical tools we use are remnants of a indispenable universal truth!
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« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2007, 19:52:31 »

You're still wrong.  Don't let your insecurities skew your perception.  I know we are all equals.  If you felt the same way, you would not be trying to fight me. 

I know I am not perfect, but my shortcomings are of no concern to you.  I am not here to learn, I have my own teachers.  I am here to tell you what I learn from them.  If you do not wish to learn from them as I do, then you should say so and prolong your ignorance. 

There is no pedestal, just the pits people dig themselves into when they forget how to climb. I am not arrogant.  I know who I am and what I'm worth.  Although I have said that my words will not be understood unless viewed in the light, you continue to seek darkness in everything I have said.  This tells me you do not want to truly understand what I am saying, but that you wish to fight instead. 

As to that adage, I would have to say that everyone speaks and you're just going to have to learn to discern truth from lies.  Don't assume anything. 

Finally, this has gotten way off topic and has turned into a childish squabble.  I keep trying to help you, and you keep spitting in my face.  All I can say is that I can't wait until you pass on and leave behind this foolishness. 
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Sharpe
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« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2007, 20:51:06 »

Just like to add:
0 (Zero), is the "idea" of nothing, just like ∞ (Infinity).
So it doesn't mean "nothing" exists, it's the idea of "nothing" which is called zero - 0.
The same as infinity, it doesn't mean infinity exists, but the idea of infinity - ∞, does.

Even the metric system doesn't exist (it is just an idea).
We have only developed mathematics to measure things.
Dawkins said that we are creatures from the middle world (not too small, not too big), the metric system can not be 100 percent exact down to the molecules, so it still remains an idea.

So to even think that infinity or nothing exist, doesn't mean it's truth (reality).

Someone mentioned that thoughts make existance, this is wrong.
You can obviously lie to yourself and others, thoughts do not make something real.
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« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2007, 00:23:30 »

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I keep trying to help you, and you keep spitting in my face.  All I can say is that I can't wait until you pass on and leave behind this foolishness. 

morning_star, I'm not sure who your post was directed at, but I would suggest you calm down. The topic being debated is infinity and 0. You have one opinion on the subject. Some members agree, some disagree, and some partially agree. The purpose for these forums is to debate topics and learn from each other. 

Your 'truth' is only one of many truths. Everyone has their own version. If you took the time to read through the posts on this forum, there are countless posts (many with 'truth' in the subject line) where members believe they have found *the truth* --- others disagree with it. There is no right or wrong here, regardless of your personal beliefs. Everyone's opinions are just as valid as yours. We welcome your contribution, but not to the exclusion or belittlement of different thoughts and ideas by other members.

The "spitting in your face" as you call it, is the response you are eliciting from others not from what you are saying, but from the way you are saying it. Two totally different things.



As to the topic at hand, I can understand how 0 could represent infinity. From a mathematic point of view (and I could be wrong as its been about 20 years since college) I believe Einstein theorized that the universe was essentially circular. That if you started in one spot and walked in a straight line, at some point you would arrive back to where you began. Numerically, I agree that 0 represents nothing. However 0 is also a circle. No beginning and no end => endless => infinite. Now, I'm not sure I agree that endless = infinite, but I could somewhat understand that.

So I think one possible way to look at is 0 = nothing and 0 is a circle. A circle has no beginning and no end. And the numerical concept of 0 = nothing could represent the return to the beginning. We begin as nothing, are born, grow, die, return to nothing, then are born again. A cycle. In that respect, I suppose nothing could be infinite, but I don't think this concept was mentioned yet.

Not saying I agree with this, just throwing it out as a possibility to consider!
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