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Author Topic: who knows what gravity is?  (Read 11510 times)
b12145
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« on: January 09, 2007, 21:38:24 »

all scientist know about gravity is that it is a force field around an object that attracts all objects toward it(newton's theory),and Einstein's theory stated that's it's a dent in time space continuum that pulls objects toward it. they both are the same. newton states it in 3d terms, and Einstein stated it in 2d terms, but they just tell you how it works and not why.

does anyone have a theory or oppinion on why?
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malganis
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« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2007, 23:26:52 »

Noone really knows what gravity is. There are different theories.

This one looks very interesting. It's not solely about gravity but much wider.

The brief summary of Survival Physics by Ronald Pearson.

http://www.cfpf.org.uk/articles/rdp/s_rdp/summary-rdp.html

It's shown that consciousness has a potentail of being immortal.
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« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2007, 23:26:52 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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Awakened_Mind
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« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2007, 06:11:56 »

Science explains the how. If you want to know why you should consult philsophy or religion.

-AM
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b12145
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« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2007, 16:47:06 »

sort of like a long range strong force of a proton.
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paker7
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« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2007, 17:37:16 »

Most scientists are very afraid to admit that the gravitational field is not a material object.

How one planet knows about the existence of every other celestial object ?
At all times ?
Does this information travel at an infinite speed (instantaneous) ?
Is it telepathy or a quantum entanglement ? Or both ?

Just imagine that every molecule transmits information about its weight and position to every other molecule in the universe - imagine that each signal is passed by only one elementary amount of material energy - the universe would quickly fill with its weight times its weight and explode !  grin

So all that information can be passed only by some non material means.

My theory:
It is all about the ONENESS and LOVE !
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« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2007, 17:37:16 »



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« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2007, 16:58:07 »

My opinion why gravity works is because space is not an empty lack of something, but something in itself, that has a structure.  Sort of (or maybe not) like the old concept of ether.  So it can be bent, spindled, and mutilated.
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ubiquitous
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« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2007, 15:52:31 »

Theres still so much uncovering to do, powerful telescopes and anayltical techniques are giving us ever increasing definition of all that surrounds us, the neutrino is still so elusive, a saying i put together to ease my own lack of understanding of today's anaylsis of the universe and all that acompanies it is

You cannot see it, only indirectly observe it.
Therefore a misrepresentation...but still a working function.

There was a recent image of the dark matter that makes up the universe developed by many physicists around the world by monitering all the radiation emmited by galaxys stars e.c.t and compiled into a nice image of the dark matter spread in the universe, it's an early attempt and one to be scrutinized and developed upon,i'll see if its on the internet somewhere.
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ubiquitous
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« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2007, 23:33:33 »

I will conSider this with my conScious thoughts, but i'm always sceptical when someone says I KNOW WHAT IT IS.
You do know how to talk alot of mumble jumble well though.

4 i c u b 4 u b 3 4ib3b4uc ME
« Last Edit: January 24, 2007, 23:37:13 by ubiquitous » Logged
Cincy_Joe
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« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2007, 05:36:00 »

The force of 'Gravity' is actually 2 forces interacting with each other to produce the effect of attraction. Here's how it goes...

A planet causes space-time to curve based on the amount of mass it has. The more mass the more of a curvature it has on space-time.

So, why does mass cause space-time to curve or stretch? Simple, try this experiment. Get a bowl of milk and put 2 Cheerios in the milk and put them close togeather. Watch what happens. As you will see the 2 Cheerios attract each other mysteriously. The same is happening between massive objects such as planets, comets, and stars.

The curving of space itself is caused when mass creates a tension on space. And since space is energy too, and much-much-much less dense than matter, then space will spread this tension out a certain distance until the tension balances out with the rest of space-time.

This mysterious attraction is caused when the surrounding milk "film" has more density than the space between the Cheerios. Look closely at a cheerio in the milk. See how the film wraps around the cheerio itself and spreads out until it's balanced with the rest of the milk's film? This action 'Gravity' is no more than equilibrium in action.

Now since the space between the 2 Cheerios is less dense due to the strecthing caused by the tension on the 'film', the surrounding 'film' in the bowl will push the 2 Cheerios togeather because like a trampoline, space-time is always trying to balance itself out therefore giving the illusion of a mysterious force we interpret as gravity.

Are we clear so far?

With this information, we can build anti-gravity devices. If you'd like I can show a modified version of someone else's idea. The only downsides is that the device needs a lot of power and radiation concerns (Don't worry, no toxic waste will be used or produced while operating this AGD (Anti-Gravity Device)).
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« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2007, 17:41:28 »

The force of 'Gravity' is actually 2 forces interacting with each other to produce the effect of attraction. Here's how it goes...

A planet causes space-time to curve based on the amount of mass it has. The more mass the more of a curvature it has on space-time.

So, why does mass cause space-time to curve or stretch? Simple, try this experiment. Get a bowl of milk and put 2 Cheerios in the milk and put them close togeather. Watch what happens. As you will see the 2 Cheerios attract each other mysteriously. The same is happening between massive objects such as planets, comets, and stars.

The curving of space itself is caused when mass creates a tension on space. And since space is energy too, and much-much-much less dense than matter, then space will spread this tension out a certain distance until the tension balances out with the rest of space-time.

This mysterious attraction is caused when the surrounding milk "film" has more density than the space between the Cheerios. Look closely at a cheerio in the milk. See how the film wraps around the cheerio itself and spreads out until it's balanced with the rest of the milk's film? This action 'Gravity' is no more than equilibrium in action.

Now since the space between the 2 Cheerios is less dense due to the strecthing caused by the tension on the 'film', the surrounding 'film' in the bowl will push the 2 Cheerios togeather because like a trampoline, space-time is always trying to balance itself out therefore giving the illusion of a mysterious force we interpret as gravity.

Are we clear so far?

With this information, we can build anti-gravity devices. If you'd like I can show a modified version of someone else's idea. The only downsides is that the device needs a lot of power and radiation concerns (Don't worry, no toxic waste will be used or produced while operating this AGD (Anti-Gravity Device)).
This speaks to what I said before about space not being a form of 'nothingness' (for lack of a better term) and actually 'something', which brings me to the idea that the ancient term 'ether', although now obsolete (because of other connotations) was essentially correct.
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ubiquitous
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« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2007, 19:46:36 »

exactly there is somehting there but it's not measurable or visible, the cheerio talk is neat but only a macro effect of gravity what it is at it's own base level is unknown.
electricity electon
light        photon
magnetism Huh??
gravity     Huh??
dark matter Huh??
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CFTraveler
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« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2007, 20:00:43 »

exactly there is somehting there but it's not measurable or visible, the cheerio talk is neat but only a macro effect of gravity what it is at it's own base level is unknown.
electricity electron
light        photon
magnetism photon
gravity     gravitron (postulated)
dark matter Huh??
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Cincy_Joe
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« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2007, 12:52:46 »

exactly there is somehting there but it's not measurable or visible, the cheerio talk is neat but only a macro effect of gravity what it is at it's own base level is unknown.
electricity electon
light        photon
magnetism Huh??
gravity     Huh??
dark matter Huh??

No, No, No, Gravity is an incidental force. It's not a force by itself. Gravitons may exist, but there may be different types of gravity like there are different types of particles.

The Cherrio experiment is just a way to help visualize what happens when a film such as space-time wants to keep balancing itself out.  Gravity is Micro, Gravity is Macro, Gravity is everywhere else inbetween where matter distorts space and space finds ways to balance itself out by pushing objects togeather.

If you'd like I can explain how a massive object like the earth interact with much much much smaller objects like ourselves. My idea also explains why in a vacuum a bowling ball and a feather fall at the same rate of speed.
Any more questions?
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SpiritWings
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« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2007, 16:58:49 »

OK, I've read some ideas thrown around this (in books and elsewhere), here's my guess at what gravity is:

Instead of imagining space as "empty", and matter as "solid", try reversing the process.  Imagine space is a continuous fluid, and "matter" is a disturbance in the placid, endless ocean of space, similar to air bubbles in a soda can.

Each energy disturbance, known as an "atom",  pushes the space outwards.  But since space is already "endless", it can't get any bigger. So it attempts to "crush" this disturbance to restore the placid order.  A bigger disturbance causes a bigger reaction from the space pool.  When it gets to a certain level of supernova, it reaches a point where the mass can hold back the pressure no more, forms a black hole, and shrinks into a singularity.     

A gravity field can be seen as a spacial "repair zone" to restore/offset-to the placid state.  It diminishes the further away one gets from the object.

Every action requires a reaction, so gravity could be seen as the reaction to the action of spacial distortion.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2007, 17:18:09 by SpiritWings » Logged
SpiritWings
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« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2007, 17:09:39 »

My opinion why gravity works is because space is not an empty lack of something, but something in itself, that has a structure.  Sort of (or maybe not) like the old concept of ether.  So it can be bent, spindled, and mutilated.

Yes, gravity becomes much easier to explain when we treat space a connected object, not a lack of objects. 

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MisterJingo
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« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2007, 18:15:58 »

OK, I've read some ideas thrown around this (in books and elsewhere), here's my guess at what gravity is:

Instead of imagining space as "empty", and matter as "solid", try reversing the process.  Imagine space is a continuous fluid, and "matter" is a disturbance in the placid, endless ocean of space, similar to air bubbles in a soda can.

Each energy disturbance, known as an "atom",  pushes the space outwards.  But since space is already "endless", it can't get any bigger. So it attempts to "crush" this disturbance to restore the placid order.  A bigger disturbance causes a bigger reaction from the space pool.  When it gets to a certain level of supernova, it reaches a point where the mass can hold back the pressure no more, forms a black hole, and shrinks into a singularity.     

A gravity field can be seen as a spacial "repair zone" to restore/offset-to the placid state.  It diminishes the further away one gets from the object.

Every action requires a reaction, so gravity could be seen as the reaction to the action of spacial distortion.


This does sound interesting, but it doesnt account for the one property of gravity that is every object in the universe has an attraction to every other object - not just those in it's immediate area (of disturbance). So right at this instant me and you has a gravitational attraction (although it would be so minute as to be insignificant).
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CFTraveler
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« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2007, 17:58:35 »

This does sound interesting, but it doesnt account for the one property of gravity that is every object in the universe has an attraction to every other object - not just those in it's immediate area (of disturbance). So right at this instant me and you has a gravitational attraction (although it would be so minute as to be insignificant).
Why?  It seems to me that any disruption or ripple would affect everything in the medium, regardless of distance.  The effects would be tiny, but it still would exist.  Unless I'm not understanding what you mean.
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MisterJingo
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« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2007, 19:14:01 »

Why?  It seems to me that any disruption or ripple would affect everything in the medium, regardless of distance.  The effects would be tiny, but it still would exist.  Unless I'm not understanding what you mean.

Disturbances in a fluid take time to propagate throughout the fluid. The universe is so large that there are parts of it which we will never see even before it ends because its light will never reach us in time. Gravity instantly effects every object regardless of distance (such effects can be seen in entangled particles - that is information is instantly transmitted between such particles regardless of distance), if gravity was more the effects of a fluid space, such action would not occur.
Also, the expansion of the universe is increasing over time, if as in the post I replied to there was no empty space, this expansion would be crushing everything already (due to the significant mass of the universe pushing against itself in increasing intensity) or at the least overriding  the effects of minute atoms in its substrate.
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CFTraveler
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« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2007, 23:11:45 »

Details details.... angry  Oh well back to the drawing board.
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MisterJingo
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« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2007, 23:15:01 »

Details details.... angry  Oh well back to the drawing board.

There is a link that i'm meaning to post (I just have to find it again Cheesy) that is interesting and along these lines. It concerns a possible new state of matter which has been discovered, and implications the universe might be string-net liquid Wink.

Actually, here it is:

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg19325954.200

So liquid might be on the right track, just but the reality might be mind-bendingly complicated. Smiley
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« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2007, 23:18:45 »

OK I have an idea.  What if what we call space has all the properties of 'nothingness' but is actually the antithesis of some sort of virtual something, again in the tradition of entangled particles (space is empty but anti-space is the opposite of empty) and the reason that gravity is instantaneous is because antispace exists nonlocally(therefore takes no time to propagate), but interacts with space, affecting it in the same way that virtual particles interact?
Just give me time, I'll make it make sense...
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« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2007, 23:48:04 »

Yikes!  I just tried to read your link.  I'll have to read it about three more times to see if I can understand it.   smiley
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Jelal67
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« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2007, 00:31:53 »

OK I have an idea.  What if what we call space has all the properties of 'nothingness' but is actually the antithesis of some sort of virtual something, again in the tradition of entangled particles (space is empty but anti-space is the opposite of empty) and the reason that gravity is instantaneous is because antispace exists nonlocally(therefore takes no time to propagate), but interacts with space, affecting it in the same way that virtual particles interact?
Just give me time, I'll make it make sense...

I think that "something" is the net the superstrings weave. Just a thought.
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« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2007, 23:27:43 »

Imagine a 2d plane.  If it is flat, there are no distortions in placement of the plane's grid.  However, if you have to wrap part of the grid around a sphere, it distorts the dimensions.

Assume the sphere has a radius of r, and the coordinate system is centered at the core of the sphere.

For simplicity, I'll limit the warp to one dimension on a hemisphere model.

Every x dimension between y's r and (-r) has the following displacement applied to it:

for |y|<=r and x>=r:
x'=x-(pi/2)*r*sin(acos(y))

The grid displacement would look similar to this:



(green lines = distorted x-lines, white circle = sphere, white horizontal lines = y-lines)

So imagine an object going along an imaginary or real string that has the same distortion applied to it as the the x-axis lines in the image.  A straight course would skew off into a tangent towards the sphere, when it reaches y=r or y=-r.

For example, look at a rollercoaster.  When an object is trying to go one way, and is forced to go another, g-forces (artificial gravity) are produced.

Imagine spheres in space causing rollercoaster-like warps in superstring 'track'.  Objects wanting to go 'straight' are being re-directed into another direction, thus producing gravity.


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« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2007, 00:09:38 »

My definition of gravity is a multi-dimensional transcending force that is weak yet effective in our dimension.
If you think about gravity it is a force weaker then magnetic forces, yet strong enough to keep us grounded.

It truely is a amazing and complex force to understand, one beyond my comprehension.

I'd like to think of it as a force that seeps into our dimension,
yet its real origin stems from elsewhere and that is where its true nature and strength lyes.

In our dimension it must abide by different laws and rules of physics.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2007, 00:16:26 by Principle » Logged
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