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Author Topic: Animals - killing - karma from the book Our Ultimate Reality  (Read 15834 times)
Hypernicus
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« on: June 30, 2006, 15:12:37 »

Adrian Cooper writes that killing animals even for eating them are destroying a bit of ourself and everything else, and it will hit us back by the law of karma. This goes for every living creature. But why then are there animals who exists only to eat meat?
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« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2006, 15:46:13 »

I don't believe this.. and seeings how I don't......will it work this way for me?

Maybe I'm just not ready for this yet... perhaps next time around I'll feel this way.
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« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2006, 15:46:13 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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WalkerInTheWoods
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« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2006, 18:12:41 »

Quote from: Hypernicus
Adrian Cooper writes that killing animals even for eating them are destroying a bit of ourself and everything else, and it will hit us back by the law of karma. This goes for every living creature. But why then are there animals who exists only to eat meat?


We live in a predator universe. Everything must consume from other things. There is also a balance. The predator exists to ensure that the prey does not over populate, destroying their food supply, then the entire prey population would starve.

Humans are not really designed to consume meat. Do we have claws for catching other animals? Do we have teeth for ripping and biting raw flesh? Would you even think about eating a raw dead animal? Could your stomach handle that? On the other hand we do quite well with eating fruits and vegetables. We can get everything we need from them. Being the conscious creatures we are, given the choice which should we choose? Which causes less suffer? Which is more economical both $$ and environmentally?

Do you know where most meat consumed comes from? Most animals raised for meat do not live a natural life, but rather a life of suffering brought on by man. Is that what you wish for animals? A life of suffering just so you can enjoy the taste of its flesh?

Do I think that eating animals has a karma effect? I would say yes. Do I think it will destroy you and damn you? No. If it is so bad then why are we placed here, in a world where everything must take from others in order to survive?
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Hypernicus
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« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2006, 18:58:00 »

So it is only beings with consciousness that has to equilibrate karma?
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greatoutdoors
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« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2006, 19:09:55 »

Fallnangel77,

Quote
We live in a predator universe.
I totally agree. Our world requires that almost every organism kill to survive. This starts at the one-celled level and goes to the top of the food chain.


Quote
Do we have claws for catching other animals? Do we have teeth for ripping and biting raw flesh? Would you even think about eating a raw dead animal? Could your stomach handle that?
The short answer is, yes, yes, yes and yes.

The human physical form is designed to be omnivorous. Likewise with the Champanzee. We are designed as opportunists -- we will eat what comes along. Chimps, and others in the ape and monkey family, will eat meat and have been filmed actually hunting and killing other species.

We are not designed as herbivores and could not live on grass and such. We are also not designed as "pure carnivores" which is why we don't have as large and sharp a tooth or claw as those species.

As to eating raw meat, there are many people all over the globe who do just that. The Maisai (I think) in Africa routinely drink fresh blood, either "a la cart" or mixed with milk. And no, my stomach wouldn't handle it for a second, but that's just because of our culture. Eating raw, live grubs doesn't trip my trigger either, but the Australian natives like them. If we had to do it, our tummies would adjust.

From a pure biological standpoint, humans are meant to eat fruits, nuts, grains, veggies -- and meat.

Quote
why are we placed here, in a world where everything must take from others in order to survive?
I wish I knew!!!  sad

The point of all this is that I don't think killing in order to survive, if done as gently as possible, will gather any negative karma. However, some cultures, I believe Korea among them, routinely beat dogs to death in order to enjoy what they call "sweet meat." That is bruised and bloody flesh. If that doesn't earn them some major bad karma, then it should!
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« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2006, 19:09:55 »



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greatoutdoors
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« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2006, 19:18:05 »

One more thought just came to mind. Did you know that owls, if fed only cuts of meat instead of the whole carcass, would die of malnutrition? The same thing goes for wolves and some other species. Each of these require nutrients found in the digestive tract of their prey in order to survive.

And did you know that cats are just about the only species that must eat meat or they will die? Again, malnutrition. Their systems need nutrients found only in meat. (Modern cat food can work around this artifically to some extent, but we are talking natural diets here.)

Just interesting tidbits.  smiley
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Adrian
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« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2006, 23:18:48 »

Quote from: Hypernicus
Adrian Cooper writes that killing animals even for eating them are destroying a bit of ourself and everything else, and it will hit us back by the law of karma. This goes for every living creature. But why then are there animals who exists only to eat meat?


Hello Hypernikus,

Thanks for your comments.

It is true that everything is one, and that we harm anything else we harm ourselves. This is a Universal truth.

However, natural laws are taken into account as well as motive and freewill.

The Universe provides for all organic life by means of the food chain. With the sole exception of humans, all animals live within these laws.

Humans however are motivated by many other factors that go far beyond these Universal principles. Humans kill to gratify their sense of taste. Not only that; humans kill for profit, sport and many other material, ego driven and selfless reasons.

Cows are bred for milk and slaughtered for big macs at 3 years.

When birds are bred for free range eggs, all the males are slaughtered because they do not lay eggs.

I could go on.

Cause and effect is a Universal law; and this is cause and effect. At the same time people learn by these laws, and humans will, sooner or later learn that killing for meat for the wrong motives is wrong and will stop.

Now the fact is; humans were never designed to eat meat. Our teeth and digestive systems are designed for vegetation, fruits etc.. The reason humans eat meat is because their parents taught them to, and their parents before them and so on. People are raised eating meat.

I am vegan and receive all the nutrition and protein I require and more, and I never kill anything.

Best regards,

Adrian.
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Lighthouse
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« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2006, 01:53:16 »

Quote from: Adrian


It is true that everything is one, and that we harm anything else we harm ourselves. This is a Universal truth.

.


Adrian,

If you believe that everything is One, how can you believe that the One can be harmed?  

Kerri
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« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2006, 17:37:09 »

Quote from: Lighthouse
Quote from: Adrian


It is true that everything is one, and that we harm anything else we harm ourselves. This is a Universal truth.

.


Adrian,

If you believe that everything is One, how can you believe that the One can be harmed?  

Kerri


Hello Keri,

"Harm" is relative.

Although we are all one at a Universal level, we are also individuated for the purposes of learning, experience and evolution.

My comment related to the Law of Cause and Effect. For every cause there is an effect, so if you harm another aspect of the Universe as a cause, there will be a corresponding effect.

Also; the natural flow of the Universe is expansion and well-being; whereas harm is contractive and not well-being.

Best regards,

Adrian.
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Lighthouse
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« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2006, 19:29:37 »

Your body kills millions of bacteria every day.  Does that mean that you will suffer "negative consequences" from this natural occurrence?
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« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2006, 22:23:30 »

Hello Lighthouse,

Quote from: Lighthouse
Your body kills millions of bacteria every day.  Does that mean that you will suffer "negative consequences" from this natural occurrence?


With respect; I think you are taking this a bit too far  smiley

Bacteria are a natural process; as are the anti-bodies that kill them, as are every other process in nature execept for human actions which are pre-meditated, ego driven for the most part, and selfish for the most part.

People slaughter animals for one purpose only; to gratify the sense of taste.

It isn't for nutrition, because vegans, who eat a natural human diet, live on average 7 years longer than meat eaters; and that is a fact.

Not to mention the fact vegans do not generally suffer from obesity, diabetes, heart disease or any other issues arising from food abuse.

Best regards,

Adrian.
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Lighthouse
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« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2006, 22:51:41 »

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With respect; I think you are taking this a bit too far  


Maybe... maybe not.  I guess it all depends on your perspective.  From my perspective, we ARE ONE and no harm can be done to anyone, anywhere... we are ALL eternal and this "reality" is an illusion.  You can judge things as "good" or "bad" and are free to explore that duality... because it is a perfect process of knowing the Self.  

Personally, I don't think it really matters what people do or what or how they eat.   Exploration of our beliefs (the belief that eating certain things and being certain ways) is all part of the evolutionary process and personal exploration.  As One, if you feel judgment of "another" for something they do, that is something you might wish to explore within because the one you are judging is yourself.  

Kerri
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Hypernicus
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« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2006, 22:52:55 »

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Not to mention the fact vegans do not generally suffer from obesity, diabetes, heart disease or any other issues arising from food abuse.

Then why are the world not alerted by the media, politicians, doctors etc??
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« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2006, 00:40:40 »

Quote from: Hypernicus
Quote
Not to mention the fact vegans do not generally suffer from obesity, diabetes, heart disease or any other issues arising from food abuse.

Then why are the world not alerted by the media, politicians, doctors etc??


Hello Hypernicus,

Good question; and the answer is usually "money"; i.e the "meat industry" and all its associated industries such as fast food and supermarkets.

Spiritual Healing is true healing; we know that beyond doubt. Why then is the "drugs industry" so wealthy and powerful, and frequently inventing new ailments to "cure" with their drugs?

The answer is nearly always human greed.

That aside; to their credit, doctors do often make sensible dietary recommendations which are generally ignored.

This is why there are millions more obese children today than there was 10 years ago, and obese children, having created the fat cells, will either become obese adults, or adults that always struggle to control weight gain. Same for diabetes, coronory heart disease, colon cancer...........

Best regards,

Adrian.
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Hypernicus
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« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2006, 08:09:06 »

What is there in meat that humans need and what food can substitute it? Protein was mentioned, and is that all?
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« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2006, 09:38:10 »

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What is there in meat that humans need and what food can substitute it? Protein was mentioned, and is that all?


vitamin B12. Supplements would be needed.
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« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2006, 05:03:44 »

I don't know what your teeth are like but mine are obviously omnivore. If you think eating meat is wrong, go live in the wilderness for a few years then tell me what you think, because that's how we naturally lived, without prepackaged tofu.

Lighthouse wrote:
"Your body kills millions of bacteria every day. Does that mean that you will suffer "negative consequences" from this natural occurrence?"

Logically there aren't any breaks in the laws of things, what happens on a small scale happens on a large one as well.

I'm still not sure of animals role in the scheme of things. As far as a soul goes they don't seem to be any different from us (..do they have free will?..), but you never see any actual animal ghost (although some spirits take the form of them.) Perhaps they are simply recycled into the universe, perhaps it doesn't really matter because within their short time in eternity they are here. This business in Korea really pisses me off, if you kill you kill respectfully.

How do you judge life? How is the life of a carrot any less valuable than the life of a mouse? They are both alive. They both have functioning bodies. They both can sense. Is the mouse greater because it can communicate better to us? Then what about a paralyzed mouse? Wouldn't that suddenly make its life equal to the carrot? How then would it be greater than the carrot who was unable to communicate to us from birth? Life knows no classifications, it permeates all matter mundane and magnificent.

If you aren't going to kill (be it on a molecular level or not) you will die. Energy transference, birth/death/consumption IS the base action of the entire physical universe.  


p.s. sorry if I overdid a casual conversation, which threads I hammer is almost totally random :chainsaw:
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« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2006, 15:33:18 »

So fish, egg and milk, and I will be lighter/better.

As I understand the meat makes the body heavier and the mind dull.. True?

Can one just stop eating meat? Will the body do something when it hasn't had meat for a while?
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« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2006, 22:40:52 »

If I lived off grass and bark in the wild I would be too weak to move about properly or defend myself and die. Could you imagine eating 15 pounds of grass and bark a day? Most areas of the world dont have year round fruits or vegitables. (We only have 3 months of summer here).
Sorry, I didnt mean to attack your beliefs, only show you the other side of things and that eating meat cant bad karma unless you make it so.
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« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2006, 01:23:59 »

Quote from: Lighthouse
Quote
 


 As One, if you feel judgment of "another" for something they do, that is something you might wish to explore within because the one you are judging is yourself.  

Kerri



I don't believe that at all. Perhaps it could be said in some sense, that everything is one, but we are still not the same thing. Even though everything is interconnected, we are different individuals, different souls.

About killing animals, I agree with Alaskans>. I like animals and I'm concerned about environmental issues, but hugging trees and behaving like a hippie doesn't do anything good.
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« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2006, 03:31:07 »

There is one Soul.  Separation is the grand illusion.
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« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2006, 07:16:15 »

I think that being vegan is healthiest for the planet and the people.  I noticed that vegans are usually much kinder than meat eaters.  There must be some reason.
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« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2006, 08:52:48 »

Quote from: learning
I think that being vegan is healthiest for the planet and the people.  I noticed that vegans are usually much kinder than meat eaters.  There must be some reason.


 :locolaugh: LOL!!!  
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WalkerInTheWoods
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« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2006, 12:47:58 »

Quote from: runlola
Quote from: Hypernicus
Adrian Cooper writes that killing animals even for eating them are destroying a bit of ourself and everything else, and it will hit us back by the law of karma.


 

I think eating meat is unhealthy & what eating meat is doing to
the planet is pretty bad, so in a way that statement is true.


Is that not karma? That is how I see karma, cause and effect. I don't see it as some deity with a clipboard.
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« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2006, 13:03:52 »

Quote
Do we have claws for catching other animals? Do we have teeth for ripping and biting raw flesh? Would you even think about eating a raw dead animal? Could your stomach handle that?
The short answer is, yes, yes, yes and yes.[/quote]

Well it would be interesting to see a human hunting down an animal with only what they have been endowed with and then dig in and start eating.



Quote
We are not designed as herbivores and could not live on grass and such.


There are many more things in the plant kingdom than grass to eat.  smiley

Quote
As to eating raw meat, there are many people all over the globe who do just that.


Quote
From a pure biological standpoint, humans are meant to eat fruits, nuts, grains, veggies -- and meat.



There are people all over the globe that never eat meat and they are perfectly healthy.
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