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Author Topic: are deities thought forms?  (Read 3465 times)
Lighthouse
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« on: January 04, 2004, 13:33:57 »

Gandalf,

Interesting Question.  I have had many experiences with thought and believe that we all create our own reality and therefore, if we believe something to be true, it is true for us.  I have experienced this in positive ways, however, I will also tell you of some accounts that friends have had relating to what I think you are talking about.  before I begin, I would like to state that I believe we are all thought forms, thought up by God and we are all the creations of these thought forms (and that God lives within all of us).  It is also my belief that we are all integral parts of God and therefore, we can create anything with our thoughts (everything we see was first a thought form... airplanes, curry dishes, even our bodies)

First, about 7 years ago, I was living with a friend who is very much into the study of the wiccan/pagan traditions.  She owns a Psychic book store and crystal shop and is a psychic reader/healer.  She told me that before I moved in with her, a "black witch" had planted a 3 headed dog in her house to spy on her.  At the time, I thought these types of things were Bu**sh*t but as I grow older and have more experiences, I am coming to the understanding that if you believe in these types of things, you give them power.  They are drawn to those who might fear them (thereby giving them power.)  I guess she exorcized her house and did not hear from it again.  


Another experience I have recently had is that a friend of mine claims to see demons.  I was talking to her about a book I started reading last week (M Scott Peck - People of the Lie) which is about evil (my thoughts on the nature of evil are still undetermined.)  She told me that she believes in evil because evil spirits have tried to kill and rape her before (I said, "Why do you think they were spirits and not people"... but those are topics for another thread) She has seen little black hooded beings with red eyes before stalking her and after that had her apartment exorcized.  I told her that she gives these things power by focusing on them.  By believing them to be real, she makes them real to her and they are then drawn to her so that they can gain more power.  So, her fear in those types of things creates them or gives them power, makes them real to her because of her belief that they are real.

In my own experience, I have found that by changing my own thoughts about myself and what I can do, I draw those experiences to myself.  If I focus on what I want, I draw that to me.  If I focus on what I don't want, I still draw that (what I don't want)to me... the universe brings to you what you focus on... it is nonjudgmental and unbiased and therefore, whatever you focus on becomes your reality.  Our thoughts are our most powerful tools and should be monitored closely in my opinion.  If you want positive experiences, think about things that are positive to you because that will be your reality, if you think negative thoughts, or dwell on what might be negative experiences, that is what you will draw to yourself.

I hope this gives you a bit of what you are asking for.

--Kerri
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Ceriel N
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« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2004, 14:25:42 »

This topic could suit well under Magic, but that's not for me to decide. I will however look at this from that perspective.

A thought form can have its origin in a powered sigil, and with time and attention it grows. It can become self-aware and have a free will. I don't see how it is much different than us, except it does not have a physical body. In that sense Lighthouse is correct. I would however like to say that each and every one of us has the power of God burning at the core of our beings. In fact, that part of us is God.
Who is then to say that we, as humans, do not have the power to create as God?

I've been playing with the thought of evoking (bringing out) myself, changing the evoked me as if it was a though form, and then invoking (bringing in) the changed me.
Doing this brings about some very core questions about the nature of our beings. What is "I" if the very way I think is changed? What decided the changes I made to myself, and how does this change effect future changes I make to myself? Do I actually have control, or am I just reacting to an immutable path of logic?
Focusing all this time and attention to myself, at what point do I become a deity? Could existing deities at one point have had physical bodies?
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« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2004, 14:25:42 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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Lighthouse
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« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2004, 14:49:53 »

quote:
Originally posted by Ceriel N

In fact, that part of us is God.
Who is then to say that we, as humans, do not have the power to create as God?



I agree with this 100% and have stated it over and over again in these forums.  As God, I believe that in the same manner that we are all thought forms of God, dieties are among the creations of ours thoughts.  There is much belief in our world of evil and satan, etc... again I'm still undecided on this.  Therefore, the more who believe in these creations, the more power we give to them and in that way, they do take on a life of their own.  

For example, I am a little out of the pop culture loop (I got rid of my TV when I had my kids) so I do not know much about the Ki balls (or whatever they are) that many of the kids on these forums are talking about.  However, it seems to me that it is a cartoon that has become reality to many of these kids.  To me, this is not reality because I have no exposure to it nor do I have any interest in it.  It seems like Science Fiction to me but to some people it is very real.  By believing it is real, it becomes real so it is real...  to them.

quote:
Could existing deities at one point have had physical bodies?


I believe only God can do that, the higher power, not its subparts (us) but I may be wrong.  However, something can appear to have a physical body... Besides; Do you realize that the particles in an atom are separated by ENORMOUS amounts of space (in relation to the size of the particles themselves?)  In other words, we are physically illusions as well.  This means that we who seem to have solid bodies are actually mostly space between particles.  Therefore, why would it matter whether a diety took on an actual body or not as long as it looked solid to some?

--Kerri
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Lighthouse
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« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2004, 14:56:43 »

I see that I misread the last quote, I thought you meant could they take on physical bodies.  I believe that they may have had physical bodies at one time.  Hitler being one I can think of off the top of my head.  I have a friend who is a spiritual healer with a Healing Center in Virginia and Hitler has been in her house at times.  I think he is looking for help and may be thought of as a diety.  So, yes, I think they may be seen as once having physical bodies... depending on your definition of a diety.  I just think Hitler was way off the mark and is now paying part of his Karmic debt... looking for help wherever he can get it.

--Kerri
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Gandalf
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« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2004, 23:56:48 »

Thanks for the input folks... interesting!

Due to the nature of thought forms, I do believe that there are many deities out there, created by Humans, and they are sentient.

Many pagan deities have been revived in recent years, even classical gods are making a come-back.
Some critics say 'come on... how can these guys like Apollo or Odin be real!'.
But IMO they might be very real, although their influence is limited to their believers. I think they may have been lying dormant for a long time due to lack of believers, but they are gaining adherrents again (which is great IMO!)

A friend of mine follows the Norse gods; after chatting with him for a while I went home and read up on Norse mythology/history. Later that evening, as I looked out of my window, my attention was drawn to the two rather large Ravens perched right outside my window, staring intently in. This was just after I had been reading about Odin's two messenger birds (Ravens) called 'Memory' and 'Recall'!!!

It felt like my focus on him had drawn his attention, and I could well imagine him going to check out a possible new convert! (yippee, someone actually believes in me!!!), although I'm afraid Odin would have been disapointed as I have no intention of following Norse gods, I just enjoyed reading about them!..

Ok, maybe just my imagination... but maybe not....

btw although I believe in gods and other beings created by us, I also beleive in the concept of 'GOD' as you describe, although not so much the monotheistic notion but more the pantheistic one where the term 'God' refers to the 'All'. GOD or the 'ALL' lies at the heart of each of us as you describe!.

I also think it possible that thought forms may become physical at some point. Once they are created they are lifeforms just as we are, and over time they may enter the cycle of reincarnation etc.

I can imagine gods who over time, as they lose power through lack of believers eventially sink to our level and become 'human'.
The notion described also implies that deities develop and change themselves in line with the changing conception of their believers.
I wonder if such deities might try to resist such change, leading to friction between deity and believers?

Douglas




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« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2004, 23:56:48 »



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xander
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« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2004, 01:21:16 »

I am impressed that you have pondered these things. I will pose the question of can one de-construct an entity, such as a ghost...demon...god. I have pondered de-constructing the jehova thought form. I always did figure it a bully and what do most bullies end up bein? that's right, hot air.

Xander
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Ceriel N
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« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2004, 11:07:00 »

IIRC, the sages of India say that a Yogi who does not transcend but remains in this realm becomes a godform for a while, but will eventually have to return to Earth to in order to comlete the journy.

If a thought-form can be deconstucted, I don't know. What I do know is that all and everything is the subjct of evolution. Evolution walks hand-in-hand with karma.
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Gandalf
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« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2004, 01:46:38 »

I have wondered about this in the past.
I have read much about how occultists can create 'thought forms' which go on to have a life of their own, growing on the belief of others.
The occultist Basil Crouch gives detailed instructions on how to create thought forms, along with many other occultists such as Zolar etc.

Several occultist talk about how it is possible for the magician to 'lay a ghost', a though form creation which once noticed by the locals, grows in power due to people believing, fearing or generally thinking about them. The thought form is also quite sentient.

I was wondering if 'gods' or deities can be created this way as well, just by believing them. In this way, Man really does create God in his own image. Also the folks who complain about 'anthropomorphism' can be answered by saying 'well yes, the gods DO have human characteristics, as they are created BY humans.

In this way, all the pagan gods along with the classical gods such as Zeus, Apollo, etc DO exist as they have been brought into existence by their thought form creaters 9without realising it).

In the same way, Christ and other contemporary deities have also been brought into existence using the same method, simply thropugh the power of their belief.
I would suggest that there are actually at least three 'Christs' vying for supremacy at the moment, due to the fracture in the Christian community; the Orthadox one, the Catholic one and the Protestant one.


The question is whether, through lack of belief, deities disolve due to lack of belief. I would suggest that once created they cannot dissolve but perhaps are reduced in power greatly or become dormant until they gain believers again which allows their power to grow once more. In this way, the pagan deities are coming back in a big way due to the 'pagan revival'.

Prhaps they can even compete against eachother although their power may be limited to their specific believers.

Thoughts?

Douglas

PS anyone who has looked into the idea of 'thought forms' should at least consider the ideas of 'god' thought forms, never mind any greater creator or 'god' above this level;IMO it is the 'thought form' gods who actually interact with us.



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