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Author Topic: Buddhist Monastery: Fastest Path to Enlightenment?  (Read 6669 times)
MJones
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« on: May 17, 2007, 03:48:27 »

After I graduate from college in December 2007, I plan on entering a Buddhist monastery to accelerate the process of becoming enlightened. I get the feeling that time is running out and the process of realizing my true nature is of utmost importance (if I can realize my true nature fast enough then I can assist others who are in the same position as I am now). Does anyone know of a Buddhist monastery that is oriented more toward the Western mind or is accessible by someone who is new to Buddhism? Is Buddhism the most efficient path to enlightenment? What is the fastest path? Does anyone know an enlightened teacher I can personally study under (in a monastery or not)? I am ready to give up everything to spiritually grow closer to The Creator and have taken some steps in this direction. Any and all input is greatly appreciated for I feel a sense of desperation yet know there is a plan in place for me and I just have to be humble, patient, and compassionate. Please feel free to contact me personally by email.

Thanks
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Stookie
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« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2007, 16:16:32 »

There is the old saying, "when the student is ready, the teacher will appear". I think that patience is a virtue learned on the way to enlightenment. Enlightenment is here and now.
(I know a philosophical answer isn't what you were looking for, but it's all I got)
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« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2007, 16:16:32 »

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seen Here
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« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2007, 00:00:28 »

Hi,

Stookie is right. Ease up, a little patience. I know how you feel though, I was the same once and it took me the best part of twenty-five years to break through.

Enlightenment isn't something you can find, buy or get from anywhere. You have it, have always had it and can never be without it; you just need to realise it. Also, you already have everything you need in order to realise this. Many people have sought God / Enlightenment and have not found him because the one place it never occurred to them to look was the place they were looking out of.

You probably do need advice from a man who has the insight to talk to those of us raised with a Western conditioning. In my opinion the best man for this is the late Douglas Harding. Please go and buy his 'On Having No Head' and see where that takes you. (Also see http://www.headless.org/).

seen Here
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James S
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« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2007, 00:42:11 »

Just my opinion here, but when people look at gaining enlightenment it so often seems that the Buddhist path is the first thing that comes to people's minds as being the best way, or even the only way.

To me, the reason Buddhism seems to work here is because Buddhists focus so much on removing themselves from the 'real world' first in order to find that place of enlightenmnet.

Enlightenment really is an inner journey, which means that it doesn't really matter what's happening on the outside. We all have the potential to find enlightenment here and now in the every-day mundane world that we live in. We don't need to separate ourselves from this world to do so. I feel that trying to find enlightenment by first detaching from the real world would make it less beneficial.

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zappazorn
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« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2007, 07:39:08 »

After I graduate from college in December 2007, I plan on entering a Buddhist monastery to accelerate the process of becoming enlightened. I get the feeling that time is running out and the process of realizing my true nature is of utmost importance (if I can realize my true nature fast enough then I can assist others who are in the same position as I am now). Does anyone know of a Buddhist monastery that is oriented more toward the Western mind or is accessible by someone who is new to Buddhism? Is Buddhism the most efficient path to enlightenment? What is the fastest path? Does anyone know an enlightened teacher I can personally study under (in a monastery or not)? I am ready to give up everything to spiritually grow closer to The Creator and have taken some steps in this direction. Any and all input is greatly appreciated for I feel a sense of desperation yet know there is a plan in place for me and I just have to be humble, patient, and compassionate. Please feel free to contact me personally by email.

Thanks

I think the desire to live a monastic life is very noble. Are you a buddhist already? Have you taken refuge in the triple gem? Do you meditate? Do you study the scriptures? Do you hold the lay precepts? If not, you may want to become a lay Buddhist before making the lifelong commitment of monkhood.
Go to http://www.mettaforest.org/  and write Ajaan Geoffrey Thanissaro. He's the abbot of Metta Forest monastery, they practice in the Thai Forest Tradition of Therevada Buddhism. He'll let you stay there for two weeks and then if you want to stay on longer you just request. After two weeks you'll have a better idea wether monkhood is for you or not. Goodluck.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2007, 07:50:05 by zappazorn » Logged
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« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2007, 07:39:08 »



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zappazorn
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« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2007, 07:48:39 »

By the way ,you cannot detach yourself from the "real world". Wherever you are is the "real world". The world at the top of a mountain is just as real as the world in the middle of a city. Practice your path in whatever place feels right and benificial for you, wether it be alone in a cave or in the hustle and bustle of the city.
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MJones
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« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2007, 23:22:36 »

zappazorn, I am not Buddhist and haven't studied the scriptures. About two years ago I made many changes in my life in a single day. These changes include: meditating two hours everyday without fail, switching to a vegan diet (mostly raw and harvestable food), eliminating alcohol and cigarettes, dated less because I felt my ego getting the best of me, eliminated friends who were going to hold me back, became a more loving and compassionate person, stopped listening to the kind of music I liked and other activities that were just fodder.

James S, I agree that Buddhism is certainly not the only path to enlightenment and I have kept myself from committing to any religion until I got closer to the date (February 2008) when I could fully devote my time to realizing my true nature after college and that may involve entering a monastery or not. I am gathering as much information as I need to make an appropriate decision that is the optimal choice. I would prefer to be a lay Buddhist more than a monastic Buddhist, although it is of the utmost importance that I realize my true nature in the shortest time possible conflicting with the inevitable resistance I put forth along the way.

The path I will choose doesn't have to be a Buddhist path. It seems that Buddhism has become more widespread in the United States over the last few decades and seems to be the most accessible Eastern path. I am however looking for a place where I can concentrate my efforts on realizing my true nature. It is not really about detachment so much as it is more about eliminating distractions that may prolong my realization. A monastery may not be right for me. I will make that determination after I visit monasteries and see how I feel regarding their methods. It would be preferable to be a lay student and work alongside a true teacher (it doesn't have to be Buddhist or in a monastery). The challenge I face is finding a true teacher that is right for me. I wanted to get people's opinions on the monastic path as an alternative option.

Please understand that I don't know much about spiritual paths. This is why I am asking people on this forum for their valuable advice and I am very thankful for it. I have talked to some of my fellow constituents at my university about a spiritual path and they respond with vacant stares or ask a lot of questions. I don't bother talking about it now because I understand that it amounts to defending or remaining attached to certain view points.

I read spiritually themed texts and passages from time to time when I am not involved in college-related course work (college course work takes up more time than I prefer since I need to remain on the Dean's List). Spiritual knowledge has become more important to me over the last two years than empirical knowledge. Working on my path alongside a true teacher is important for he or she will be a clear mirror that will allow me to see my ego and fix the flaws I have or entertain.

seen Here, I will certainly look into Douglas Harding's work, thank you. I want to see reality for what it is and not necessarily be indoctrinated into the Eastern culture that is often connected/intertwined into certain schools of Buddhism. From what I have read on headless.org, it seems to resonate truth without necessarily being associated with Eastern culture.

I still have so much to learn and will get some time to read more after summer courses end.

Thanks for the all the helpful advice!
« Last Edit: May 20, 2007, 00:10:44 by MJones » Logged
Stookie
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« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2007, 16:54:19 »

It's not for everyone, but you might want to look into Anthroposophy. It's a western path of self-initiation, no teachers needed, tried and true (yet maybe slower) methods to attain perception of non-physical reality and spiritual evolution.
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« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2007, 03:53:32 »

Changing anything .. or everything .. externally, such as where you live, your surroundings, your friends, can only help so much. The real change needs to be made internally. The path to enlightenment lies in your own mind. And its rarely a quick and easy process.
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« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2007, 16:04:33 »

Be a light unto yourself.

-AM
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« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2007, 16:43:47 »

Quote
I have talked to some of my fellow constituents at my university about a spiritual path and they respond with vacant stares or ask a lot of questions. I don't bother talking about it now because I understand that it amounts to defending or remaining attached to certain view points.

I had to laugh at reading this. There is only one person I discuss some of my spiritual perceptions/thoughts with, but not everything. And I don't discuss any of this with anyone else, including my husband. Simply because they have no interest in it. Most are wary/cautious due to beliefs/fears in christianity. Instead of them thinking I'm possessed by demons or something, I simply don't comment on religion -- or if I do, its something vague that I know is 'safe' to say.

I think the reason for this type of response from others is that spiritual growth is an inner/private journey. I don't feel it is something that can be openly discussed and easily understood by anyone not on a similar path. And even then, I think there are similarities across them all, but also differences in the search/experiences that are unique for each individual.

Even though you are still in school, you don't need to wait to 'start your search.' Someone mentioned meditating, which I would also highly recommend. Meditation is a basic tool/method that is used by different names and in different ways in all religions/beliefs that I'm familiar with. So it is something that you can do and not worry about committing to something you don't know much about. It will also, given time, help guide you towards what is right for you at the moment.

Additionally, I would buy books on buddhism (Thich Nhat Hanh is a wonderful author/monk you may enjoy reading). I would also recommend reading books on other religions/philosophy. Perhaps some books by Rudolf Steiner on anthroposophy. I also very much enjoyed The Bhagavid Gita According to Gandhi -- it was a translation and interpretation by Gandhi which I found much easier to read/understand that the one by Swami Prabhupada (that one was too heavy with religious doctrine for me). The Secret Doctrine by Madam Blavatsky is also interesting to read. You may want to throw in some books on yoga and hermetics as well. If you are interested in eastern religions/philosophy, those should both be included in your reading/research.
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« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2007, 21:54:16 »

You should try reading the devi bagavatam.
A very inspiring book or you could try the yoga sutras of patanjali   http://www.rainbowbody.net/HeartMind/Yogasutra.htm
And the Devi Bagavatam  http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/db/index.htm
If you ask me, if you want to go for enlightenment, i should recomment getting your Kundalini awakening first from a Sahaja Yogi.
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« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2007, 20:31:38 »

To reply to the original post, no.
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« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2007, 05:01:49 »

After I graduate from college in December 2007, I plan on entering a Buddhist monastery to accelerate the process of becoming enlightened. I get the feeling that time is running out and the process of realizing my true nature is of utmost importance (if I can realize my true nature fast enough then I can assist others who are in the same position as I am now). Does anyone know of a Buddhist monastery that is oriented more toward the Western mind or is accessible by someone who is new to Buddhism? Is Buddhism the most efficient path to enlightenment? What is the fastest path? Does anyone know an enlightened teacher I can personally study under (in a monastery or not)? I am ready to give up everything to spiritually grow closer to The Creator and have taken some steps in this direction. Any and all input is greatly appreciated for I feel a sense of desperation yet know there is a plan in place for me and I just have to be humble, patient, and compassionate. Please feel free to contact me personally by email.

Thanks


I can understand where you are coming from. I also feel an urgency and a sense of desperation. The path is long and very difficult though. For 3 1/2 years now I've been practicing various techniques in order to transcend the body. And although my progress has been constant, it is just painfully slow. But I just feel like my mind has out-grown my body, and I feel a need to go beyond. It constantly amazes me though the monumental effort you need to give and extreme persistence you need to have.

Anyway, years ago, I thought about the same thing- joining a Buddhist monastery. I ultimately decided that it wouldn't be for me, because I just had the sense that the very things I'd be trying to get away from would present themselves to me in a greater degree than ever before. I really can't assume that all (or even most) of the people there would have the same single-minded goal as I have. Maybe the people there are more interested is studying and reciting scripture than actually trying to attain enlightenment in an actual way. Maybe they'd be just as intolerant to other forms of thought as the most rigid fundamentalist. You can never really tell where people are coming from, even if, from the surface, it may appear as though they have the same goals as you. And also, in a monastic setting, I can't imagine that you'd have very much freedom or privacy. The point is, in that type of setting, you may end-up having more distractions than would have ever imagined.

I just recommend reading as much as you can from many different sources, because I think it's important not to become too one-sided in your beliefs. Deep, quiet contemplation is also very beneficial. And some form of practice done consistently and persistently is of course essential. But, you never know, maybe a Buddhist monastery would, in fact, be the most appropriate thing for you. Maybe you'd find an excellent one that fits you perfectly. smiley
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« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2007, 17:28:18 »

By the way ,you cannot detach yourself from the "real world". Wherever you are is the "real world". The world at the top of a mountain is just as real as the world in the middle of a city. Practice your path in whatever place feels right and benificial for you, wether it be alone in a cave or in the hustle and bustle of the city.

You have given a real world answer here, one of logic, selfishness, and assumption. This advice as most of the answers given so far appear to approach (and answer) this idea in a negative way with the wrong intent of implying sometime wrong and prejudice. Truly I am not sure of the real intention here and the intent is to stifle and shut the person up. In my family we call this hard love and be quite.
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« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2007, 17:57:53 »

After I graduate from college in December 2007, I plan on entering a Buddhist monastery to accelerate the process of becoming enlightened. I get the feeling that time is running out and the process of realizing my true nature is of utmost importance (if I can realize my true nature fast enough then I can assist others who are in the same position as I am now). Does anyone know of a Buddhist monastery that is oriented more toward the Western mind or is accessible by someone who is new to Buddhism? Is Buddhism the most efficient path to enlightenment? What is the fastest path? Does anyone know an enlightened teacher I can personally study under (in a monastery or not)? I am ready to give up everything to spiritually grow closer to The Creator and have taken some steps in this direction. Any and all input is greatly appreciated for I feel a sense of desperation yet know there is a plan in place for me and I just have to be humble, patient, and compassionate. Please feel free to contact me personally by email.

Thanks


Above all don't approach this feeling from the perspective of desperation. Desperation is probably the wrong motive to put into decision, it has a way of driving decision. Stookie's advice is more than philosophical I assure you and is the proper thing to do first. 
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« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2007, 06:22:48 »

I have thought about doing the same sort of thing. Sometimes I find people I know do not understand what life really is. People I have known all my life are concentrating to much on non-important things. If you have not read "The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying" I highly suggest you do. Do you understand what the goal of an enlightened person is? It seems to me you are being selfish and are only caring about yourself. Maybe thats what is stopping you from becoming enlightened.
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MJones
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« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2007, 21:25:37 »

ParanoidAndroid:

Thank you for your comments.

Theoretically there may not be non-important "things" because each non-important thing can serve as a lesson that can teach and give knowledge about life that can help us to ascend toward our spiritual goals whether we are aware of those goals; we are all on a path back to the Source if we are conscious of it or not. Lessons can be learned from people, events, nature, and the realms beyond. People simply need to be receptive to the lesson or lessons in each event, behavior or situation they encounter personally or witness. These people you know who are concentrating on non-important things may indeed be learning spiritual lessons that are not brought to your awareness or because they are not sure of how to communicate what they have learned. It is like a person who thinks there is something more to life and believes there is something important to be realized, such as enlightenment. So many people attain goals or work toward them in hopes of finding completeness and inner peace yet they do not necessarily know that enlightenment is what they seek. For some people this thought of realization happens sooner than later or not at all. Also what seems to be non-important to some people is certainly important to them. It is not for us to judge what someone does but it is our responsibility to decide if their behaviors are right or wrong in the sense of whether or not we want to emulate those behaviors and consquences may occur if we do emulate them.

Enlightenment to me is about seeing, experiencing, and understanding reality for what it truly is thus removing the many illusions of our consciousness that exist for those who are non-enlightened. It is also about ending the cycle of karma and eventually reincarnation by growing closer to the Source by realizing full enlightenment after death (if primary enlightenment is realized first unless you realize enlightenment after you pass on as in the Bardo Thodol) and going further into subtle levels of energy. Enlightenment to me is also about helping others to reach enlightenment after one becomes realized. As an enlightened being you will be able to help others along their spiritual path as you are free from ego and will know what the person needs to move closer to their goal. Obviously my viewpoints on enlightenment are simplified in this post and for all intents and purposes they may also be completely incorrect. I do not even know that enlightenment exists until I realize that state of consciousness. Based on that, there are many assumptions I am basing my ideas from as you already know.

I have read bits and pieces of the Bardo Thodol.

In many aspects I am being selfish by wanting to realize enlightenment. I understand this. The process of realizing enlightenment is in some sense a selfish choice but then again doing "important things" also requires the self thus in some sense being selfish. But it is a choice to transcend the self and transcend the selfishness that exists in the self. By transcending the ego/self you become non-selfish and give to all beings unselfishly.

It also may seem that I only care about myself by working my way toward enlightenment. Please know that I do care for others very much so. On one hand I am working toward enlightenment to complete the missing piece in my life. On the other hand I am also becoming enlightened to help other people become enlightened after I become enlightened. If you think about it there may not be any sort of non-selfishness by traversing the path to enlightenment until enlightenment is realized. If I enter a monastery and realize enlightenment and am able to help others reach their spiritual aspirations then this means that my selfishness was somewhat justified. If however I don't realize enlightenment fast enough or die before it happens, I may not have been the most true use to the people I encounter that are looking for spiritual direction. What if entering a monastery and becoming enlightened saved my life as opposed to dying in a tragic accident outside of a monastery thus never realizing my true nature? We can not always see the extent of our choices (especially the non-enlightened) but that doesn't mean we should not do or accomplish what may need to be done on the way to realization. You may have to be selfish to truly go after and get what you want from life. This may be just another dichotomous aspect of reality; you may have to be selfish to become truly unselfish and give freely to all.

By stating that I am selfish and only caring about myself it may be said that by proxy you are also implying that everyone who has gone into a monastery or gone on retreat to become enlightened is also selfish and only caring about themselves. This may even apply to Siddhartha Gautama, who left his responsibilities as a father, husband, and future ruler of a kingdom to pursue the noble path of enlightenment. The parents who send their children to monasteries to become enlightened would also be selfish because they could be thinking of themselves and partially the child when deciding on such an action. Maybe the parents thought it was best for the child, food may be scarce, maybe they have many children already and might not provide adequate care. Would beings including Siddhartha Gautama who have gone into a monastery or retreat say that realizing enlightenment was worth the cost of being selfish and worth the cost of what they would have been doing with their lives if they hadn't chosen the path of enlightenment? They probably would have reservations and maybe sadness about the family members, potential girlfriends, a wife, children within that time, important life events they missed, and all the time they were not present in their loved one's lives or being productive and contributing to society. They may also say that pursuing enlightenment was worth the arduous journey. Although these are questions one would have to ask enlightened beings and their family members to gain a clearer insight into this matter instead of merely relying on speculation.

Communication and modes thereof are certainly limited. This reply is no different. In one aspect I am defending my viewpoint on wanting to become enlightened which means I am sticking to certain aspects of reality instead of encompassing many different aspects. And in this communication is a response partly from my self. I am also attempting to convey a message to you that each one of us are responsible for our life and what we decide to do with that life. Like I wrote earlier, it is a selfish choice to become unselfish. Also you may have responsibilities and obligations to family, friends, significant other that I do not to the same depth that you do. I don't know what your life situation is or where you are coming from. I can't tell if your comments were advice or criticism but I will take it as advice. This is another flaw of written communication and its interpretation.

I have talked to my family members about my choice to become enlightened and how I will realize enlightenment. Enlightenment may occur in a monastery or it may not. Either way they support my decision because they know they don't have all the answers to life and understand that each individual must follow their own path regardless if a decision may seem unorthodox or uninformed or more informed. No one can choose for me. Ultimately the spiritual is a lonely one because no one can do the work for you and I believe that the choice to become enlightened is for the right reasons and that will require a certain level of selfishness on my part. I do not know if I will enter a monastery or not at this point. I will know the answer when the time is right.

You may certainly be right in stating your opinion that my selfishness and how I seem to only caring about myself is keeping me from enlightenment. I may have lost my way and become disillusioned on my path. If I have lost my way then I need to find my way again, thus enhancing my objectivity and not becoming attached to my viewpoints should be a proper starting ground to learn why I may have gone astray. Who am I to say that I am right in my viewpoints; they are merely relative ideas of absolute reality. If there is any truth to them at all it is very minimal as it is influenced by my limited consciousness, sense perceptions, beliefs and programming from many sources. This post goes a little bit into why I or others would make such a choice on a spiritual quest, although these ideas are almost wholly incomplete and lacks insight from various angles. I will certainly think more in depth about your advice and determine how I may change my consciousness and viewpoints regarding my mental patterns of thought and how they relate to my behavior intertwined with the aspect of enlightenment and how it may be realized.

Thanks again.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2007, 18:44:11 by MJones » Logged
MJones
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« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2007, 01:13:22 »

Thanks for all your helpful comments and advice on my previous posts. I appreciate all the insight from everyone.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2007, 16:29:19 by MJones » Logged
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« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2007, 07:55:54 »

First off, I acknowledge that there may be many views on this, but my personal view is that some sort of higher self connection would be really handy.  From studying some of the old Buddhist stuff I sometimes wonder if they're alluding to this sometimes.  I also wonder if some of the stories about Buddha doing ascetic training and learning psychic ability and kundalini stuff contributed to his overall "success."  I mean even though he supposedly left the psychic stuff behind later in favor of straight purification stuff, who knows if all of it didn't contribute somehow.  I've got my suspicions that it did and that a lot of the more secretive training gets into some of this stuff. 

I know that Tenzin Palmo in "cave in the snow" talked about the simple methods of purification being important but that there are things that the tulku use to make the processes faster and she kind of complained that a lot of stuff was kept secret even from monks and especially from women.  Apparently she even got the Dalai Lama to acknowledge that.  She was also one of the ones who alluded to the higher self or something like that.           
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