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Is anyone happy for the suicides?

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Telos

I always thought it was hypocritical to take someone who committed suicide - someone who potentially reached the lowest point of life possible - and then tinkle on their grave with condemnation. In other words the fanatics who say suicides are evil mortal sinners seem to take delight in pointing out the suffering of people and saying, "yes, indeed they are suffering, shame on them."

But I digress.

I just heard word of someone my age committing suicide. I thought, "good for him!" Obviously, I bite my tongue in real life, but not here.

Suicides are  nothing new. But why do I always hear it buttressed with debasing highfalutin snobbery... that the person was "mental", "screwed up" and "not right." Regardless of your religion or personal ethics or the actual mental health of the individual... why are we so quick to make such scathing assumptions about a person who is (quite literally) already down? Why beat a dead horse, except to make yourself feel an illustion of strength? It's dead.

Nevermind that question.

I just want to know. Is there anyone who is happy? Isn't there anyone who has faith that the universe, God, the soul, or whatever powers that be are good and will work things in everyone's favor? Is there no one who has an unshakable optimism?

I almost want to celebrate.

[Edit: Please refrain from making the token New Age statements about suicide. I know what you think and I know who you are, Mr. "earth is a school" and Mrs. "it depends on the fear and negative energy of the soul at the time of death"  etc...]

Tom

What I think is that the people who are the loudest against suicide are the ones who are the most jealous of the deceased.

Leannain


mactombs

It depends on your viewpoint. What are virtues? Is selfishness a virtue? If so, then suicide is perfectly fine.

Suicide, in most cases, causes other people lots of grief. We are a society, we are social creatures - what we do affects others. Those who commit suicide might escape, but they have shrugged off their pain onto others. And I doubt that in the afterlife the issues that lead to suicide are totally absolved. There's still a major issue to deal with.

QuoteSuicide is a natural thing.

Only if you're a lemming. Suicide has to be one of the most freakish and unnatural things in all of biology.
A certain degree of neurosis is of inestimable value as a drive, especially to a psychologist - Sigmund Freud

Tom

The natural and healthy condition is to enjoy life. Something has to really warp a person to make it possible to commit suicide. It is like being stuck in a trance, but a harmful and deeply restrictive type of trance.

Telos


no_leaf_clover

QuoteSo, no one is happy...?

I don't know where you're going with that, but I'd say I'm happy. Why?
What is the sound of no leaves cloving?

Tom

If suicide were to be like an innocent person breaking out of prison, I'd be happy to hear about it. Instead I have to see it as the lost opportunity it is.

Lente

Quote from: TelosI always thought it was hypocritical to take someone who committed suicide - someone who potentially reached the lowest point of life possible - and then tinkle on their grave with condemnation. In other words the fanatics who say suicides are evil mortal sinners seem to take delight in pointing out the suffering of people and saying, "yes, indeed they are suffering, shame on them."

But I digress.

I just heard word of someone my age committing suicide. I thought, "good for him!" Obviously, I bite my tongue in real life, but not here.

Suicides are  nothing new. But why do I always hear it buttressed with debasing highfalutin snobbery... that the person was "mental", "screwed up" and "not right." Regardless of your religion or personal ethics or the actual mental health of the individual... why are we so quick to make such scathing assumptions about a person who is (quite literally) already down? Why beat a dead horse, except to make yourself feel an illustion of strength? It's dead.

Nevermind that question.

I just want to know. Is there anyone who is happy? Isn't there anyone who has faith that the universe, God, the soul, or whatever powers that be are good and will work things in everyone's favor? Is there no one who has an unshakable optimism?

I almost want to celebrate.

[Edit: Please refrain from making the token New Age statements about suicide. I know what you think and I know who you are, Mr. "earth is a school" and Mrs. "it depends on the fear and negative energy of the soul at the time of death"  etc...]

Well I think everyone should have the right to kill themselves, however it should be discouraged.

And is anyone happy, I'm sure there are people who are perfectly happy. And people whose life is bittersweet, a bit happy a bit sad. I'm pretty hopeful myself.

Oh yeah, earth is a school or playground, oops you didn't want to hear that.... but if it is your going to be pretty mad about yourself taking the easy way out.

coolbreeze

To me, suicide should be treated like the abortion issue- as an option, but a last resort. With abortion we supply birth control, with suicide we provide the tools to deal with what could cause suicide.

I believe in reincarnation and karma, so, in my opinion, taking the way out through suicide is just going to land you somewhere worse than you are now.

QuoteIn other words the fanatics who say suicides are evil mortal sinners seem to take delight in pointing out the suffering of people and saying, "yes, indeed they are suffering, shame on them."

I am NOT saying "ooo you committed suicide, naughty", i AM saying "what can we do to help others who are suicidal so that they don't kill themselves"

Wronski Feint

Well I personally wouldnt kill myself, because I dont think you(im not talking about one person just someone in general)  should.  Not because of the whole christian idea of it, but my own.  I think you shouldnt commit suicide because you are meant to live.  If there is no point in being born, then you wouldnt be born.  Nature fits everything together in our world, everything has a role from bugs to dust.  Even though you have the power to kill yourself, I dont think someone should.  I know somtimes life gets really bad and I understand the feeling of wanting to not exist but there is always an option out.  But no matter how bad life gets there is sombody somwhere whos got it worse than you.  Life is precious and you should never throw it away.  There are thousands of people who want to live that get killed everyday, their lives taken from them and you still got yours.  

I thinks someone on the first page said 'suicide is natural' no its not.  Whens the last time a bear hung itself.  Ive never seen a raccoon intentionally run out infront of a car.  Humans are the only animals capable to commit suicide.
"Come and See"
So I looked, and behold a dark angel.  And the name of him was Life, and Hell fell before him.
And power was given to him over the whole of the earth, to clense with mind, with sword, with light and by the love of the earth.

Wronski Feint

Yes but I dont think an animal makes a concious decision about it though.  Its more of a mechanism.
"Come and See"
So I looked, and behold a dark angel.  And the name of him was Life, and Hell fell before him.
And power was given to him over the whole of the earth, to clense with mind, with sword, with light and by the love of the earth.

Frank

Hi:

I think people ought to consider there is a difference nowadays between what we call "suicide" and an act of self-deliverance. An act of self-deliverance is classed as a logical decision by the person in question. Whereas a suicide is generally classed as an irrational decision by someone in dire need of psychological help as a result of clinical depression and/or what we would class as mental illness.

In my experience, some forms of mental illness are tantamount to torture. It can very easily reach the stage where the person in question feels they simply have no alternative but death [as a form of escape]. It is all very well for the sociologically comfortable to pass their judgement upon these people. Social snobbery takes many forms I suppose. But go and actually work with these people and then see how you feel.

The whole question, I would suggest, is a LOT more complex than most people assume. In the first instance, I would recommend people read Final Exit by Derek Humphry. He touches on a number of important basic issues regarding this.

Plus, I would respectfully suggest people try to gain an understanding of this issue by actually working with people who feel a psychological need to do away with themselves, as it were, as I did for a number of years. I think you would find it rather enlightening, but enlightening in a real sense, not in a happy-clappy we all are all one and oh so [pseudo] enlightened New-Age sense.

Yours,
Frank

Wronski Feint

I have contemplated killing myself during times of distress and in times of inquiry.  I often wonderd what would happen if I just shot myself in the head.  Just for curiosity's sake.  But during times when I was extremely fustrated with life, I thought about killing myself and then I thought of another way out.  I know some people dont have the luxury of having somewhere to go for a while, but I live at the edge of a large forest.  I have considred just dissapearing for a month or two, cutting contact with everyone.  That would be like killing myself, but I still get to live.  I would have peace and be able to come in contact with my innerself and with the earth.   So if anyone in here is thinking about killing themselves because life is hard, dont, just escape by leaving, dont comeback untill you feel better.  But if you are thinking about doing it because you feel it will help you acheive a greater level of enlightment, dont.  Just finish up your life here, have some fun with it,  go and travel see all that life has to offer.
"Come and See"
So I looked, and behold a dark angel.  And the name of him was Life, and Hell fell before him.
And power was given to him over the whole of the earth, to clense with mind, with sword, with light and by the love of the earth.

Tom

The trouble with suicide is reincarnation. I still think that it is better to stay with the current life which is a known quantity than to gamble on the next.

beavis

Every person, if they lived enough billions of years in the same body, would choose suicide eventually. Some prefer a shorter time. The thread title asks if I'm happy for the suiciders, not their friends and relatives. If they prefer it, yes.

CaCoDeMoN

I think that suicide caused by depression is always a tragedy, because there are many better ways to fix the problems(if there's afterlife suicide doesn't solve anything). I also think that suicide caused by a REAL problems is a tragedy too, and altough I understand the motivations of the person it still makes me sad.
The only kind of suicide that I think is a good way to die is when a soldier/guerilla commits suicide to avoid being captured by the enemy.
MEAT=MURDER.

Leannain


Telos

I just thought it would be nice to toast the passing of an individual who ostensibly had a deep and fragile relationship with existence. Good luck to him in the great unknown. May the guides clear his path and his passage be free!

Or something. Something other than a retroactive diagnosis or a faith-bent pretentious damnation.

It doesn't have to be a logical argument speculating the nature of his act or a legal protection of such decisions. Some joy would serve. Some hope would suffice.


Thank you for your replies.

Tom

You can always do something good and dedicate the merit for someone who has died. There is not even a time limit on how recent the death has to be for it to make a difference.

Telos

You're missing the point entirely, Tom.

For this thread I am interested in the living, not the deceased. I want to know if there are living, breathing people who are in some candid way happy for the voluntarily deceased. I want to know if there are people who do not drown themselves in folly by trying to "make sense" of the event by introducing mental illness or metaphysical artifices and religious mumbo jumbo.

Tom

It is hard for happy and healthy people to imagine suicide, so the only conclusion which makes sense is that something went wrong. The next step is to try to determine what it was and why, out of fear that it could happen to them, too.

Nay

Quote from: TelosYou're missing the point entirely, Tom.

For this thread I am interested in the living, not the deceased. I want to know if there are living, breathing people who are in some candid way happy for the voluntarily deceased. I want to know if there are people who do not drown themselves in folly by trying to "make sense" of the event by introducing mental illness or metaphysical artifices and religious mumbo jumbo.

My step mother killed herself after years of abusing me and my siblings,   usually just me.   We still don't understand why it was mostly me.  Only when my brother or sister tried to get her attention away from me would they get it.   I guess you could say it was a relief when she took all those pills....  I just wish she wouldn't have gotten her hair done, put on her wedding dress, crawl onto my bed, tie a couple of garbage bags around her head knowing darn well my father was going to find her.  :evil:   Oh not to mention she drained my fathers savings and gave it all to her two boys.  

She planned everything.   That made me angry for years, I don't give a flying fart what was up with her mind.  She was a angry woman and now I have no problems with it, but man oh man, did I.

I was surprised when the police were tearing the house apart they found a bunch of books hidden behind the bookcase that were about witch craft and ones that told her how to do the deed.  Amazing that there are books out there for any subject. :P

Nuff of my ramblings...

Nay

Telos

Nay, thank you so much for sharing your story. I applaud your courage.

Please criticize me appropriately for I do not intend to trivialize the complexities of your emotional life, nor do I intend to press the question on you. But certrainly your stepmother suffered in a cataclysmic way, hating herself and hating those who reminded her of her weakness, and hating life. And she lived and died so pitifully, so low and disgustingly powerless.

Are you happy for her?

Forgive me if this is difficult topic. I'm not trying to empahsize an ideology or a view point... I just want to know if there are others who are happy. Or serene, even.

knightlight

For many of my teenage years I wanted death simply because I hated life.  Now in my early 20's I want death as frank said for self deliverance.  I have a few things I wish to still accomplish here and I do have a dream which I am working on accomplishing now, but as a whole this whole physical existence thing is a bit mundane for me.  As a child of 12 I saved a small boy from falling off of a railing about 25 feet up, surely enough to kill him and ever since that day I felt my purpose here was completed.  If I knew for certain that my death would bring no one pain and allow me to go on with my spiritual path releasing me from my limitations in this world I would not give it a second thought.  I would prefer to give my life for something good instead of taking it myself, such as self sacrifice to save someone or further a cause.  I have come to a point in my life where I feel I've got the general idea of this focus and wish to move on permanently.  Don't worry for my safety, I'm not exactly hell bent on my own demise and I firmly believe that I was given this life for a reason, but have I already fulfilled it?  

Am I happy for suicides??  I don't know, it depends on their fate after death.  If they are indeed reincarnated as a lower form or punished severely for their lack of self love than no, if they are released from their pain and freed spiritually to roam the various FoC's with tears of joy and release in their eyes, then of course I am.
Profound Impatience makes the blind struggle in Stupidity.