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Author Topic: Question for Christians...  (Read 10041 times)
goingslow
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« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2003, 05:38:34 »

ahhh inside the somewhat complicated mind of God.  Thats an approach.. of some kind.

I cant get enough of the going "slow" references.. hilarious.

oh boy.[xx(]
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KP
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« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2003, 12:05:55 »

Someone asked Ramakrishna, "Where is god?"
Ramakrishna said, "Don't ask this, ask where he is not?"
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« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2003, 12:05:55 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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neg removal5
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« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2003, 05:24:55 »

Hey Ramakrishna

It's not possible to ask God where he is not.  It's not possible to ask him that because He's everywhere.  He fills this Cosmos, and he fills every other Cosmos he has ever created whether it's a Cosmos adjacent to our Cosmsos, or a Cosmos that is separated from all Cosmos all together.

But that is a very interesting question.  That is actually a very creative question.  I give you 200 points out of a possible 100 for that one.   You just caused me to think of a new idea about God.  God has been growing! Not in his essence because his essence has always existed and always will exist, but where He has been growing is in the increase in the number of worlds and cosmos that He is continuing to create.  

So let's look at your question again. Where is God not?  The answer to that question is He is not where he has not created a cosmos yet.  but soon as He does create that Cosmos then He will be there to.
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KP
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« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2003, 09:54:40 »

It wasn't really a question.  It was a quote from a poet.

The point was that God/Godliness is everywhere, there's no need to search because he's everywhere!  Every living thing, every non living thing.

If you can't see him everywhere you look then your eyes need opening a bit more, if you can't hear god in every sound then you're ears aren't listening hard enough.  But there's no need for a search,  because you already have everything you need.  Now, waking up is all that needs doing.
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neg removal5
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« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2003, 04:14:30 »

Hey KP

     You have researched some of the vehicles that are out in the world, and the vehicle that you have chosen to believe is a "thought" and "way of thinking" vehicle.  In that kind of a vehicle, it's possible, that a person may close himself off to another "vehicle" out in the world which says that God can come and live in your spirit with your permission.  And it would be a reality, not just a "thought" vehicle or a "way of thinking" vehicle.  You would have a Being inside of you who is actually God's Spirit, personality, and perfection of Being.

It's a "vehicle" which believes in the reality that two beings can live in the same body.  Just like you would know and be able to recognize and communicate with your best friend if his spirit entered into your body with your spirit, so is there a "vehicle" out in the world that says a Being called "God" can enter into your spirit with you to, just like your best friend.  You will know that you are not alone in your spirit, and that something else has taken up residency with you.  What has taken up residency with you won't be the vehicle out in the world called "knowledge" or "way of thinking" vehicle, as those vehicle do not lead to another entity living inside of you with your own entity.  

Now even though God is capable of doing what I just said, even though he has some how duplicated himself and entered into one of his beings in an entity fashion way, does not mean that he is no longer everywhere in the universe.  Even though he has refined into an entity presence to take up personal relations and residency with you does not mean that he is still not everywhere filling all the different Cosmos.  The two ideas are not contradictory, and they are both capable of existing side by side.
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« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2003, 04:14:30 »



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« Reply #30 on: June 26, 2003, 07:27:01 »

Let me start off with the 'paradise is so great, just add some virgins and people will kill themselves for it' comment for humor value.
Sex is a sin until marriage.
Even then, it's a sin to enjoy it unless you're trying to procreate.
Adultery is a sin.
There is no sin in heaven.  If you manage to, I assume you'd be kicked back to hell.
Nowhere is it mentioned you can have kids in heaven, it implies you stay as you are for eternity.
Therefore: there is no sex in heaven!  even if marriage and kids were allowed in heaven, it's one woman for eternity.  the suicide bombers are in for a nice surprise.
[Cheesy]
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« Reply #31 on: June 26, 2003, 08:34:56 »

quote:
Originally posted by neg removal5


     You have researched some of the vehicles that are out in the world, and the vehicle that you have chosen to believe is a "thought" and "way of thinking" vehicle.  


You talk a lot of excrement.

My way is to try to drop thoughts, knowledge, to be direct with my awareness.  I'm going through a certain kundalini awakening right now, if my mind gets cluttered with thoughts - it becomes uncomfortable.  So thinking is not something i've chosen.  It's quite the opposite.  I'm focusing on consciousness, empty mind, no-mind.  In a zen way.

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« Reply #32 on: June 26, 2003, 08:41:58 »

Link - great email Smiley  I got that a year ago too, but they'd taken out that last part about him not getting the girl.  How dare they!

And now the serious part.
Thank you Adrian and neg removal for the best replies I've heard in years Smiley  Neg, that's the exact kind of response I've been wanting.
I've been delaying on my reply so I could give it some serious thought.  I even attempted to contact this said spirit, but that didn't work out.  I do have a direct connection with spirit guides, however.  My question is, what is the difference between the two?  You said earlier the only way to know if an angel is of god is to have the holy spirit.  If you can't trust a guide, how can you trust the holy spirit?  For all you know, it could be Satan, right?  He was once the highest angel and could easily produce feelings of love.
Honestly, I find the idea of having the holy spirit in me somewhat disturbing.  If it's truely the God of the Bible, it'd be yelling over my shoulder, "Drinking in excess is a sin, Acts xx-whatever" instead of, a real example, "Don't drink another glass or you'll puke(guide)."  I didn't, and I didn't Smiley  I think it'd be more like a permanent parent than a loving friend as you put it.  And as for friendship, the only other I'd tolerate sharing my body for the rest of my life is a soulmate that thinks like I do.
Next issue... you think in the future more Christians will OBE, helping humankind?  As someone else stated, witchcraft is a sin.  Don't know where the broomstick came in, but what do you think the ability to "travel in the night" and spy really was?  Christians murdered them in God's name when they found this out.  Yes, the rules are outdated and Maybe the church will change with the times.  But who would have the right to update the Bible other than Jesus?  A perfect God should not make rules that in the future will prevent it's following from advancing.  I once told a priest of my first OBE.  He said the only way it's possible is if God was trying to teach me something very important.  I asked him, "How is floating down the hallway important?" and he was stumped.  Had he been clever enough to say god was showing me I'm more than my body, I'd reply that I learned no such thing at the time.  I was 6, I thought it was real! Smiley
If it's true God really wants a personal relationship with each of us, why limit himself to just one vehicle?  In that mindframe, if I were God, I'd perform a Moses-like event to every culture on earth to get the introduction out of the way.  Humans being humans would interpret a bit differently per culture, but all would have the central invitation to let God personally be with them.  Instead, he chose only one belief system.  Like someone said earlier, what about those that don't have access to a Bible all their lives?  Or the 2/3rds of the planet that strongly believe in some other system?  Strange for such a loving God to exclude them from the one vehicle he's chosen.  
You say God can duplicate himself.  Certainly.  Except the model of God I've come to understand is quite different.  God was once all there is, pure consciousness bundled with the highest of emotion.  Then it set out to understand itself.  To make a jilola reference, it's no fun to play chess alone.  So, it duplicates itself over and over, some with half awareness and some with a fourth, and so on.  The least aware perhaps being physical matter.  Then it sends bits of itself to inhabit the physical realm where thought does not equal direct action, and very different minds are forced to interact (as opposed to the astral, where like attracts like).  Every experience is interesting and vital to this god, which would explain the allowance of "evil" and negs to share the planet.  It also explains the common belief "God is everywhere/ everything".  If the physical is God's energetic illusion/ mindgame, it would explain the breakdown of physics at the quantum level and go along with string theory.  OBE confirms the different layers of nonphysical reality, all leading up in vibrational frequency to God.  
Sorry to sidetrack, but it has a point.  This type of God would not need to share a human body to feel connected, because it already is connected to everyone and everything.  It wouldn't insist on us Knowing Him or loving back, because both are valuable experiences and they'd return to the light eventually.  With this model, the best way to find god is to seek him (within ourselves) rather than searching for clues that he 'must have' planted for us in religion.
You seem to think of God as a person just like us.  It's very logical to conclude that, and he certainly must have all our attributes to have created us.  But what about the billions of other planets and galaxies teeming with life?  What about 'astral wildlife' and elementals?  He must have those too.  I think he's composed of so much more than we are that it breaks the boundaries of what we'd call a personality.  
You say Christianity is unique, and it is.  But voodoo also encourages spirit possession, though in a much different tone.  NewAge encourages finding your spirit guide and finding god within yourself.  Practically every religion believes in some sort of angel or guide, which is very similar to the holy ghost in technical terms.  

The usual disclaimer - these are just my beliefs.  I'm certainly not trying to bash anyone's beliefs here, just sharing my own and applying logic wherever possible.  It sounds like you're still searching for answers Neg, and I am too.  I'll keep my mental model until something even more fitting comes along.  But I still wonder, where does the holy ghost fit into all this?  Or Allah for that matter.  What is it about Christianity that makes people emphatically believe/know their religion is right, and think the best way to spiritual advancement is simply not to sin, rather than explore every possibility?  Does the Holy Ghost personally agree that OBE is a sin?  Upon random searching, I found some websites where people channel the Holy Ghost's words just as they would a spirit guide.  One (http://www.holyunion.com) actually says the Ghost speaks of itself as "we"!  Then backs itself up by saying that means the Holy Trinity.  If anyone can actually channel this Ghost, let it reply as well Smiley
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« Reply #33 on: June 26, 2003, 08:55:42 »

KP, I think you and Neg are actually agreeing in a way.
He's saying you're trying to reach god by mental actions alone, instead of I guess something more real and substantial like having God right in front of you for conversation.  In comparison to that, kundalini alone isn't much.
In the Christian model, it isn't possible to become god, or even get close, so having him 'there' is the ultimate.  You can think and theorize your way into a religion (thinking vehicle) but it won't mean much until you experience something.  But you have...
In the Newage model, raising kundalini and self awareness are paths to becoming purer and more enlightened, becoming more like a god every step of the way.  
One path "finds god" and the other "finds god in himself," so I don't think either is meant to be offensive.
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Terry B
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« Reply #34 on: June 26, 2003, 12:19:48 »

Person,

Your post is very well thought out.

But actually, Allah is God in arabic language. Even the arabic speaking christian and jew call God as Allah.
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« Reply #35 on: July 01, 2003, 23:47:26 »

bonk this topic. bonk christianity.

more people have died in the name of christ than for ALL other man-made reason on earth COMBINED. MILLIONS of people have died at the hands of the christians.

thats right, this includes nuclear bombs, chemical warfare, biological warfare, saddam huessein, hitler, your principle, your boss, and al bundy. ALL COMBINED.

and im sure most christians dont know that. in fact, come to think about, they really dont know anything.

I HATE BRAINWASH.
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« Reply #36 on: July 02, 2003, 03:15:40 »

quote:
Originally posted by J-Man

bonk this topic. bonk christianity.

more people have died in the name of christ than for ALL other man-made reason on earth COMBINED. MILLIONS of people have died at the hands of the christians.

and im sure most christians dont know that. in fact, come to think about, they really dont know anything.

I HATE BRAINWASH.



Whoa J-man have you ever stopped and thought that maybe just maybe you have been conditioned to hate Christians, and that it was not your own choice that made it a reality.

Look man I have no problem with you stating your opinions and believing what you want to believe heck this entire website was created for that purpose, but to come in here and use such defamatory language is disrespectful to not only the christians of the world but also to Adrian and everyone else on this forum that have spent many years creating a place where people could talk kindly to each other and explore what it is to be human regardless of whatever beliefs we may have.

Tone it down a bit show a little bit more respect when you don't have all the facts.  How do I know that you don't have all the facts, because no one does.  You have your beliefs which is well and good but to be disrespectful of others is downright rude.  I don't care what belief system you have but regardless, it comes down to the golden rule which holds true to everyone dispite religion or spiritual beliefs, "Do unto other as you would have them do unto you."

Remember the goal of this site is not to force people to believe certain things, it is to allow people to choose what they want to believe.  The bottom line is to be nice to the people on the boards.  If you disagree with someone that is fine just show some respect for their freedom of choice.

Respectfully,
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« Reply #37 on: July 02, 2003, 17:27:01 »

Look man I have no problem with you stating your opinions and believing what you want to believe heck this entire website was created for that purpose, but to come in here and use such defamatory language is disrespectful to not only the christians of the world

I think the Christians on this site have grown accustomed to having their religion dragged through the mud. Besides, for mentioning Al Bundy, I forgive him.
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« Reply #38 on: July 11, 2003, 18:29:10 »

It's like this.
Don't trust the Bible because it was written by men.
The whole point of believing in God is about faith without proof.
a good God is good when he can do something and no one is sure that he did anything at all.
There is no right religion and it states in the Bible that God dislikes all religions except for one which is small and insignificant.

So it is all about faith and most people don't no what they are talking about.
Oh, stay away from church they are the most far off by far.
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« Reply #39 on: July 16, 2003, 18:33:44 »

Person,Links, Neg and Goingslow, you make some really good points, and pretty much in line with some of my own thoughts. Maybe we should start a church![Cheesy]

For what it's worth, here are some of my thoughts (and some of these I've mentioned on other posts).

It's been mentioned that we can't believe the Bible because it's written by humans. Uhhhh, hello, ALL the books we have are written by humans. Maybe there's a shortage of divine or alien authors because the publishers wouldn't know where to send the royalty checks... (Sorry, I couldn't help it!)

Has anyone noticed those folks in the Bible who do speak directly with God tend to come to a really bad end? No kidding intended, look at the prophets in the old testament. And of course there are the disciples in the new testament. Moses was an exception I guess, because at least he lived to die of old age. Seriously, does anyone get the idea that maybe it's not healthy to be able to talk directly to God.

Another question: the new testament talks in several places about believers being able to do everything Jesus can do. It also mentions the difficulty in finding the true path to God. I do not, generally, believe in "healers". Most of them are in the game for the same reason -- money. But my Mom told me once about a guy who just happened to be walking past when she told a friend after church that she had a really bad headache. This guy stopped and suggested that Mom and her friends join him in a prayer. They (about 4 of them) joined hands and he asked that Mom's headache leave her. She said it did, just like that. Then he wished them a good day and left. I don't think this guy was divine or anything, but I do wonder if he wasn't a true believer, and thus able to actually heal.

One thing that has always bothered me is the lack of miracles in modern times. Preachers will explain it away but I still believe that if a religion is real, it should work! Again in the old testament, there is a place where three altars are set up, two "false" and one by God's prophet(I think Isaiah?). God told him to soak his altar in water before lighting it. Well it still burned, while the other two didn't. Pretty clear evidence to me. But why doesn't it happen today!?

All of this is confusing to me right now. That's why I am getting involved in meditation, etc. If OBE happens, that's fine, but what I am looking for is some sign of communication. God didn't condemn Thomas for doubting, just said that those who didn't need proof were a little better off. I reckon I'm not that well off yet.

Oh, and to the guy who likes cusswords - get a life! [V]First, spewing hatred is not adding anything constructive to any issue. Next, Isaac Isimov has written that those who must resort to swearing to communicate are simply demonstrating their own lack of intelligence.  If anyone hasn't read his stuff, it's well worth the time.
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« Reply #40 on: July 17, 2003, 02:21:15 »

"About ten billion years ago, the Universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry."

-Douglas Adams


These are the terms I have come to with the Universe. What do you think this suggests about God?:

The Universe is always trying to maintain an equilibrium. This is achieved by opposites. The energy in the Universe keeps the cause/effect scenario going so that things don't fold themselves out of existence. This keeps the Universe in need of maintaining the equilibrium.

This is the Middle Realm, so to speak. It is the threshold of good and evil. Here, ALL is possible, MAYBE even the full conception of God (if you happen to be the right sentient interdimensional species), who is said to be so great that no one can ever fully know or understand him/her/it. This is one of the reasons why no matter how good you are at something, there will always be someone who comes along who is better. This may also be some part of our evolution.

Only through the truth can we obtain total and absolute freedom. Once we understand everything we can, we will be completely free. If we understand a great deal after this world, we will go to a higher plane. Otherwise we are left to the lower planes and must earn the truth. When we die, we will continue to learn about all that is, was, and will be, even if we get stuck in lower planes (which is of course temporary). We will be able to calculate the delta streams of possibilities in the future. We will be able to conceive and realize in one step. If we follow false paths, we are not doomed, but merely slowed down, for as long as we have even one tiny little piece of the truth, we can find out where it fits in the big picture and we will be able to figure out the rest from there.

I have come to the conclusion that there is no heaven or hell, only the astral world with its higher and lower planes. A loving father would not punish his children for all eternity because in a blink of infinity they made a few mistakes. By the same token, a good parent does not spoil their children by giving them everything they want. They must still teach their children about the mistakes they have made, and must temper their children into as fine people as they can. Therefore, just the right amount of punishment must be applied. not too little, not too much. Again you see the balance that must be maintained here. Time goes forward, and we must walk it like a tightrope. Too far to either side, and we will not reach our destiny.

Church is no place for spiritual advancement. There one gets stuck in rituals and repetitive all-purpose prayers which are not tailored enough to fit the individual needs of each and every person.

I was brough up Roman Catholic and left the church because I felt the emptiness there. I have since then advanced spiritually far more than I ever would have if I stayed there. The strange energy I felt from the church must have been others' fear of not doing the rituals, because I know it was not from God himself. It conflicted with my energy and I remember the feeling even now. It just felt wrong, but in such a distinct way that I knew to leave. I could sense that others around me did not believe either.

The world we live in is full of deceit and lies. It is our job to recognize these lies for what they are and cut away at them like a sculpture carved out of stone, until we reveal the truth for ourselves.

Nobody can tell you which path of spirituality to take, you need to decide that for yourself. If you sense that something is wrong with the path another is taking (i.e. you feel it's not right for them because you sense something of it in their energy that is hurting them), then you should probably express your concerns to them but let them make the choice for themselves. Don't hold them in contempt!!

This is all that I can recall from my complex memory right now. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. Keep in mind that I had no intention of offending anybody, of course, with anything I have expressed. If I have, I apologize for my unwhitting blunder.
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« Reply #41 on: July 17, 2003, 02:23:24 »

Timeless! Good to see you again! Welcome back!
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« Reply #42 on: July 20, 2003, 00:54:34 »

Hi everyone!

My background:
I'm 17. I've been brought up Luthran, and have studied the Bible a lot. I read a book and found astral projection. Then I found this web site and these forums!

My viewpoint on God:
1: I believe there is a god.
2: God is everywhere, everythign, and everyone. this is most easily recognized as ether (all the energy we're all raising).
3: God is love and wisdom. There is negativity in the universe, but it's meant to teach and not to punish. Christians say that God is merciful, and Jesus says you should forgive your brother essentially unconditionally. If we're expected to do that, how can God punish? Makes no sense.
There's a good site on all this stuff that has encouraged the way I think. It's www.ascension2000.com. There are three books there at the top of the page. They are all good!

My two cents,
Michael
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« Reply #43 on: July 20, 2003, 03:36:02 »

My interpretation of "god" is much like Shorty's (in fact, I usually spell it as "ghod" to mark a distinction with the common name riddles in dogma that I don't support). To me, there are two extremes, some may call this good and evil, but I call it creation and destruction. Those who aspire to create or unite with a collective existence is becoming as ghod, and those seeking the opposite are catering to the urges of the organic or ego-driven, catering to the "beast" within us all.

I was a Catholic, but have left that political religion long ago because made no scientific sense and the interpretations seems so narrowly fashioned. However, I will never again be a "christian" in the normal sense (though I believe Jesus existed as a spiritualist) but, I read The Bible again after my change (using my own translation for words pertaining to the heroes and villains of the book). As a book, not using it for scientific or historical value, it actually instills very good lessons within its context (not literal quotes). Hey, it's a good book if read as a book, but there are better books, IMHO.

I have nothing against "religion", but nor do I have anything for it. It helps some people, there's no harm in that. The harm that exists from religion is what humans have done with it, and do with it even today. Faith is meant to be a personal philosophy and belief structure, not politics, and nevr used to impose on another's rights and liberties.

I do still have a problem with the book of Genesis, it seems that wanting enlightenment is, well, a sin. If that's how it was meant to be, then we're all doomed, lol.
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« Reply #44 on: August 05, 2003, 01:32:34 »

As I read the interesting posts on this thread I thought of something I might "add to the tucker bag" as it were.  The western world, except for a few schools, has been relegated to thinking about God.  Intellectual this and that.  The Eastern world is the opposite.  They have always had as part of their knowledge and culture that man should have direct experience, direct conscious awareness of God...and that this direct knowledge will bury forever the intellectual maunderings of the so-called church in the west.
If you truly wish to KNOW God, join an Eastern school and forget the western church.  It will give you intellectual ideas but very little more.  I say this in candor, not rancor, as I myself have served until retirement as a Bishop in our church.
You can read about God in the Qabala...and what the old Rabbis wrote can be directly experienced if you train in their Orders.
You can know about God directly if you practice Radha Soami, for one example.
When we tire the moon with our ceaseless talk...God sets patiently waiting....
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« Reply #45 on: August 05, 2003, 09:23:03 »

bah

http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/isis/iu-hp.htm

it's all there

blavatsky pwns j00
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« Reply #46 on: June 17, 2003, 23:51:42 »

This is something I've always been curious about, and have never gotten a real answer to.  I want to understand Christianity in NewAge terms.
Once I spent my day online asking random religious people to describe a religious experience that gives themselves proof of their religion, much like an OBE can prove a higher reality exists.  Many seemed a bit offended, and all I got was a coincidential "sign" here and there.  One priest described prayer as feeling like a warm blanket was put over him.  I've felt much more from meditation alone.
Once I was watching religious programming, and the host asked for the viewers to picture their heart as barn doors opening to God/Jesus.  I was bored so I tried it, and actually received a strong energy - but it felt like random energies, positive and negative, being blasted at me.  As if god was a collective unconscious idea we project our emotions to.  I asked someone about this and they were just confused, aparently never having felt energy themselves.
So, having noticed there are members here that are able to mix Christianity and a bit of NewAge philosophy into their lives, I ask, what experiences have you had, and what did you learn from them?  Please exclude the expected "I saw Jesus in a dream/AP" because there is no real way to know it was not a higher spirit trying to make the viewer more comfortable.  What does it mean to be reborn, in a nonphysical sense?  Does anyone talk telepathically to god/jesus?  Can you actually be "given strength, etc" or is it only a mental conception?  If you've been given "signs" and such, how do you know it is the Christian God?
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