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Mind, Body, and Soul

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wisp

Euphoric Sunrise,
I read your post carefully. I read it twice! It's good information. I enjoyed reading it, and I couldn't find anything you may have left out of it. [:)]

Euphoric Sunrise

Thank you wisp, but i went on to add information about identity and i became stumped. I realised that what i have written so far isn't what i'd like to write.

For one, if we get our energy for our thoughts and feelings from an external place, that means either those thoughts or feelings are not our own, or perhaps that there is another part of us on the astral which gives us this energy, but another part of us on the astral would still be part of us and not external. This does not follow my beliefs. I do not believe we just consume random energy to fuel our emotions and thoughts.

So here's what i have so far:
The being contains the soul and mind. The soul contains the feelings, the mind contains the thoughts. The feelings and the thoughts are energy and so on the astral can create thought forms (like Astral Pulse Island)

However, i now can't quite figure out how the soul and the mind get the energy they need to operate. Do we create it ourselves? If so, then how come we get worn out?

And i still haven't addressed the idea of identity. How come we have different identities? We have identities from birth, so it can't just be a case of experiences you have in a physical life. Don't spirits and such also have identity?

See what philosophy does to a person! [:P] [:D]
"The soul is never silent, but wordless"
* Emperor - The Tongue of Fire

wisp

Euphoric Sunrise,
Great mysterys,huh? I'm not aware of what your belief is? If you care to explain,it might help me understand. I believe some people do take and consume energy from what I see! They take it from others! This is not the energy your talking about though.It's a waste anyway, imo, but that's another subject. [:)]

The energy your talking about is indeed a mystery,and so is the identity question.In the greater plane, I believe there are external forces that effects us for the better, and for strengthening purposes. It's the physical body that gets tired and needs rest. I can take a 10 minute power nap with good results. Sometimes I can sleep all night and still be tired after getting up. Does this energy variant mean something?This is also off your subject though.[:)]

Identity through "feel" is a sense. In fact, identity is connected with all the senses. What's your take on senses in this?

There's two kinds of feel, emotional, and a feel in the tactile sense.Is it a coincidence these are called by the same name,or are they connected someway?

I haven't been able to understand the differences of external energy sources sent or brought inward.Could it be a combination of self and greater power? Sometimes one must rely on their own strength, other times, assistence. Is the purpose of receiving help toward self reliance, and self sustaining existence? Maybe discovering the identity and the source of energy is connected? Just a few thoughts. Does this help with what your trying to express?

It sure is something to think about! I'm looking forward to what you come up with.

Euphoric Sunrise

I think what i'm doing here is being too broad. I'm trying to do the task by defining what can't be defined, answering what i can't answer. Instead of writing down what i believe the soul and the mind is, i'm trying to write down why the soul and the mind are.
I have to try and stick to what i think the characteristics of the soul and mind are instead of going off on energy sources etc.

The question of "where does energy come from?" is basically the same as "where does existence come from?". I've already stated in my original post that "everything we know of in existence vibrates at a certain frequency" (energy). So if energy = existence, the question becomes the same. I've already figured out that, for the moment, i can't answer the question of where existence comes from, so why should i think i can figure out where energy comes from?

See i believe there are things above and beyond what many human minds can comprehend. These include answers to questions such as "how did existence come about?" etc. The source of energy is pretty much the same question, and so it is perhaps above and beyond the comprehension of the human mind.

Can you explain what you mean by senses a little more. Do you mean the feelings people get about certain things? So instead of the physical senses of touch, taste etc. they are metaphysical senses like intuition, telekinesis etc?
If so then i think this is just another way to apply our energy to influence the world. The way we are "conditioned" (another subject :p ) means that we are taught to forget the metaphysical, and so any ability we may have had to manipulate more subtle energies gets lost. However, we can rediscover these abilities and operate the energy that vibrates at the frequencies beyond what we can usually percieve and manipulate. This, in my mind, is what causes levitation and mind-reading - it is simply another way to use energy.

I do think some people may recieve help from spirits and such, but i do not believe in a supreme being or anything like that. I'm not sure if that's what you mean or not. And this is where i made the link between my question of "where does energy come from?" and "where does existence come from?". If we are getting help from other forces with our energy, where are the other sources getting their energy from? It's the same as: if our existence depends upon another being, where is that other being getting it's own existence from?
It is one of those questions [:P]

The word energy seems to be becoming a broad term here [:D]. Maybe we could define it.
Energy to me = everything (in scientific terms - matter). Like i mentioned, everything vibrates at some sort of frequency, thus everything is energy.
Thought is energy. Good evidence is Astral Pulse Island. It exists because people thought about it enough, and the energy from their thoughts made a form on the astral (hence the term 'thought form'). The more people thought about it, the more solid it became.

I can't seem to find any examples of how emotion could have a direct effect on external energy though. Emotion can effect thought of course, and maybe that's it's main purpose. However that still doesn't mean emotion has to be the source for thought. I'm quite happy, and yet i can still think about unhappy things.

Anyway, i'm starting to ramble i think [:)]. Tomorrow i'm going to redo my "few paragraphs" on this subject and post them.

Thank you very much for your input, wisp. You have given me much to think about [|)]
"The soul is never silent, but wordless"
* Emperor - The Tongue of Fire

Euphoric Sunrise

Ok i believe i have successfully redone my little essay on the mind, the soul, and the body. It may be a little long, but that's what you get when you ask a philosophy student who strongly believes in the metaphysical to define these things [:D] [:P]

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'Soul' and 'Mind' and their relation to the body
We can be summed up as being. The being is comprised of different parts. Two huge parts of the being are the soul and the mind.

The soul is the being's source of emotion. When the being is happy, its happiness comes from its soul. When the being is sad, its sorrow comes from its soul.
Another thing the soul is used for is intuition. Intuition can also be referred to as the gut feeling the being may get about something. Perhaps a person is driving in a car and that person just has to pull over into an opposite lane, they don't know why, it's just a gut instinct. Moments later a driver who has fallen asleep ploughs into a car in that person's previous lane. This instinct or feeling is a part of the soul.

The mind quite simply provides the being with thoughts and memories. There is the conscious mind and the subconscious mind. These may not be two separate minds, but they are distinct in their function. The conscious mind is what houses the surface thoughts, what you are feeling, what you are doing, and your level of awareness etc. whereas the subconscious mind stores memories, feelings, and other thoughts. In total, the mind is the warehouse of your life. It contains all you have ever sensed. This is why hypnosis is so effective. It delves into the subconscious and can retrieve the most detailed information buried deep within the mind.

If we think about the mind and the soul in relation to the body, we come across some interesting ideas.
The human body contains what are commonly known as chakras, but these are just essentially energy centers from which the body draws its energy. These energy centers can be associated with different feelings and different aspects of life. For example, the energy center in the chest (the heart chakra) would be the source of joy if a person were feeling happy. When happy with you, you would perceive the energy of that happiness through the energy center in your chest (your heart chakra).
We can also see that the mind and the brain have various similarities. If we were to open up a person's head and find the right area to stimulate with an electrical charge, we could probably trigger a memory from that person's childhood. I do not think the brain and the mind are the same thing, but I do think they work together. The brain serves as the medium for the mind. The thoughts a person has come from the mind, but the brain is needed for the physical person to process those thoughts, since thoughts are energy and the brain is so sensitive to energetic activity.

The source of the energy for the mind and the soul is unknown. I doubt we produce our own energy whenever we need to, because if this were the case we would not ever get exhausted or need sleep. If we were our own energy source we could run on, wide-awake, forever.
Asking the question "what is the source of energy?" is the same as asking the question "what is the origin of existence?" since everything in existence is energy, or scientifically termed 'matter'.

We must just accept that there is energy. Perhaps the answer is too great for the human mind to comprehend, let alone answer.

Identity and personality seem to be things that would be linked to the soul. They deal with the individuality of a person, their separation from everybody else.
We cannot just say that these things – identity and personality – are things that are simply developed through experiences, although that is the case in defining the already existent identity. If this is so, why do we have identity and personality from birth? Rather, these two things seem to be things that are innate. The answer of their origin could very well lie at the same place that the answer to the question of "what is the source of energy?" does.

Every single story I have heard about spirits, the after-life etc. and my own beliefs lead me to think that spirits do have what seem to be both mind and soul, and yet they have no physical body. However, that does not mean that they do not have a soul or a mind.
As I said before, everything we know of in existence vibrates at a certain frequency. There are things that vibrate at such frequency that they cannot be perceived by our physical senses. We know this is fact if we study things like x-rays, and ultra-violet rays. We know they are there, but we cannot physically perceive them because the frequency at which they vibrate is not within our spectrum of perception. Going by this idea, it is entirely plausible that there is a part of a person that can exist after the physical body ceases to be occupied. It is simply a case of the deceased now vibrating at a frequency higher than which we can physically perceive.
Because the energy of thought is also at a higher frequency than we can physically perceive, there is not need for them to have a brain because they are not physical anymore. This supports the idea that the brain is used as a physical medium between the mind and the body.
It also suggests that it is quite plausible for the soul to exist after the being leaves the physical body. If I am right about the soul being the chakras, or energy centers, then we can say that the soul is just energy that vibrates at a higher frequency than we can physically perceive.
With this theory, the idea of a person existing, having a mind, and having a soul beyond physicality is entirely plausible.

That is what the soul and the mind are to me, and their relationship to the body.
"The soul is never silent, but wordless"
* Emperor - The Tongue of Fire

wisp

Euphoric Sunrise,
This is beautifully written! Congratulations on your ability to express yourself so well. The piece is not too long. The matter of energy and existence is also put in good prospective. This is a good baseline for beginning to discover the questions not yet answered, for me anyway.

your quote:
quote:
Can you explain what you mean by senses a little more. Do you mean the feelings people get about certain things? So instead of the physical senses of touch, taste etc. they are metaphysical senses like intuition, telekinesis etc?
If so then i think this is just another way to apply our energy to influence the world. The way we are "conditioned" (another subject :p ) means that we are taught to forget the metaphysical, and so any ability we may have had to manipulate more subtle energies gets lost. However, we can rediscover these abilities and operate the energy that vibrates at the frequencies beyond what we can usually percieve and manipulate. This, in my mind, is what causes levitation and mind-reading - it is simply another way to use energy.


Yes, this is the way I understand it. My mention of the senses fits in here just fine.
quote:
I do think some people may recieve help from spirits and such, but i do not believe in a supreme being or anything like that. I'm not sure if that's what you mean or not. And this is where i made the link between my question of "where does energy come from?" and "where does existence come from?". If we are getting help from other forces with our energy, where are the other sources getting their energy from? It's the same as: if our existence depends upon another being, where is that other being getting it's own existence from?
It is one of those questions

Yes, this is what I meant. I have the same questions. [:)]
The difference for me is that I know there is a supreme being. The supreme being I've met has shown me some things.It's possible this being is my experience and chance to understand more. But, that's another subject too. However, this being used the word power, something I think to mean energy. That's why my interest on the subject.The being said, "this is just a small part of my power"...so I believe the power (energy) I was shown could be just within the universe of human comprehensive, or existence perhaps. Being at a point of learning dream symbology, the pictures and experiences shown to me by the supreme being has come closer to an understanding for me.It's a slow process. There does seem to be a metaphysical aspect to this all.It's about experimenting and allowing for possibilities.  Euphoric Sunrise, I do believe your on the right track. You have some very interesting ideas. [:)] Thanks for sharing them.

Euphoric Sunrise

Thank you very much wisp. Both for your kind words and contribution. We both seem to be on our own paths and are able to express ourselves and learn from each other. That's what makes this forum so wonderful me thinks.

I wish you the best on your journey [:)]
"The soul is never silent, but wordless"
* Emperor - The Tongue of Fire

narfellus

I agree with everything you said Euphoric. I was reading last night in an occult text that in the beginning God was nothing BUT thought, and still is. He imagined us, and as the small gods we are, in his image we create our realities just like Big God does, through imagination and thought. It's just that on this physical plane with the contraints of time, the pressure of the world and it's denial of the divine, it is difficult to see the changes take place in the vibration if one is not used to it or practiced to use it. Years of prayer have primed me for new spiritual tools, the act of magnetism to bring to me the things i desire in my life and for others, so long as they serve our higher purposes. I'm still learning, but i feel that every day i have a new opportunity to understand that every inch of the universe is just light vibrating at different frequencies, some visible and some not. It is so exciting to think and talk about, and i love telling people (although most think it's whacky). Oh well...i know YOU understand. [;)]
If but we knew the power of our thoughts we would guard them more closely.

Euphoric Sunrise

I'm not sure whether this belongs in the philosophy forum or this one, but i'll put it in here for now since more people are likely to read it. Please move it if you think it should be moved.

This week for my Philosophy work (school) i had to "write a few paragraphs outlining [my] current understanding of the terms 'soul' and 'mind' and their relationship to the body."
I haven't finished it yet, since i still need to mention something about identity, the after-life, and i'm going to see if i can fit the idea of the "nagual" from Carlos Castaneda's books in there somewhere, just so it shows i have referred to another idea.

Anyway, here's what i have so far:

---
To explain my concept of the soul and mind, I first need to explain about energy.
Everything we know of in existence vibrates at a certain frequency. Some things vibrate enough for us to see them, and touch them (body), others enough to hear them (voice).
There is also energy that vibrates at a frequency that cannot be perceived by any physical means. The mind, body, and soul can be thought of in terms of this non-tangible energy. The human body also contains some non-physical energy. We have conduits of energy running around our body, and we also have main energy centers, sub energy centers and so on. These main energy centers are often referred to by spiritualists as chakras. Rather than take a spiritual view of this energy, I would prefer to take a scientific view for this explanation.

The soul is often thought to be the source of emotions and feelings. When we laugh, our joy comes from our soul. When we weep, our sorrow comes from our soul. If we were soulless we would have no joy or sorrow, or any other emotion.

The mind is thought to be the source of thoughts and memories. When we remember what we had for lunch yesterday, we are using our mind. When we are reading something and thinking about it, we are using our mind. Without our mind we would have no thoughts, we would remember nothing. Indeed it seems that without the mind we would not exist.

What I propose is that the soul is actually the energy centers within our body, and the mind is the brain.
The main energy centers that we have (seven within the location of our physical body) are related to different aspects of life - love, envy, physicality, metaphysicality, anger, joy etc. Does this not sound like the soul? Now when somebody laughs, they are experiencing the energy drawn from the energy center associated with joy.
As for the mind, well there have been many scientific experiments done which can show us that the brain is quite similar to our concept of the mind. When a certain area of the brain is stimulated (perhaps by an electrical (energy) charge) the subject gets taken back to a childhood memory. I say that our memories and thoughts are simply energy, which our brain draws from.

Ok, so where is this energy stored? Do we simply have an everlasting supply of energy within ourselves? No, we do not. That is why we become exhausted and worn out – lack of energy. The energy we use for our emotions and thoughts comes from somewhere external to our physical bodies. You can think of it as a pond, an entire ocean, a box, a room, absolutely anything really. It is where the energy for our thoughts and feelings is stored.
What I am talking about is often referred to as the astral plane. I will not go into that here, since it does not serve the purpose of my explanation, but suffice it to say that it is simply a "place" that vibrates at a higher frequency than what our physical senses can perceive.

Where the energy is created, how it is created and so on I can't answer. That's one of the questions that is perhaps beyond the human mind's comprehension.

In a nutshell, the soul and mind are energy that is translated by our energy centers or brain. This translation is what we call thoughts, memories, emotions, and feelings. So really, it is a combination of our bodies and something else that defines the soul and the mind.

---

I would like to hear other people's thoughts on the what the mind and the soul are, and how they relate to the body.
Also, if there are any holes in my explanation, please do point them out to me.
"The soul is never silent, but wordless"
* Emperor - The Tongue of Fire