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Spiritual Development=Hard Life??

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PeacefulWarrior

Yes, I think when one attempts to progress spriritually, he or she will inevitably have to face the obstacles that everyone must eventually face.  When we strive to move forward faster than the general population, and this is a great thing, we will face even steeper opposition.

I am a great believer that while we ourselves often times hinder our own progression, there is an evil/negative force that automatically strives to stop us as well...it's the nature of realuty/the universe, but it is NOTHING TO FEAR.

This is a very interesting topic and I hope to discuss it more then times permits.

Thanks!
We shall not cease from our exploration, and at the end of all our exploring, we shall arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.
T.S. Elliot
---------------
fides quaerens intellectum

jilola

I've always been a bit put off by people's tendency to equate once spiritual path with attaining some skills and powers. I think any skills come if and when the person is ready and at the right point in his journey. Trying to attain them as such and separate from one's everyday life is a sure way to make life hard.

Spiritual development does not, imho, necessarily mean ife will be hard. If you go about it properly and integrate it in your everyday life, and note that I'm not speaking about the skills and powers, the duality disappears. And it is the duality that causes life to be hard. That's what makes giving up some things so very loathe to do and what causes us to miss things we don't have, we'he given up or shouldn't have.

There is no spiritual life separate from our normal life and vici versa. The whole thing is and should be about balance.

2cents & L&L
jouni

Voltarrens

Hello,

So when has a "life of ease" produced anything but complacency and lethargy?

As far as I can see, have known and experienced, spiritual lessons are learned through crisis and striving to understand that which seems out of reach or uninteligable at the time.  And it does chose you rather than you chose which lesson you want to learn, more a deep need within ones' self.  It starts with a consious aware questioning of life, at least that is where I started when I was very little.

You can't seek rewards either; you have to be willing to take what you are given and work through it. . .  that is the reward whatever it may be.  Think about it, how can you understand something, a spiritual experience, if you have not experienced it, lived it fully, wondered about it, dealt with it, struggled with it, tried to understand it, tried to find the meaning, turned it inside out, stumbled across something accidentally?

Seems scary? mmmm, the road is not for everyone, and it can be terribly lonely some times, and few venture past a certain point or walk the untrodden path beyond.


Ash

This reminds me of something, though it might be slightly off topic. Does a person working on spiritual development have to be hard on themselves? Is enlightenment attained through persistence and hard work, or the exact opposite? Does one truly become enlightened only when one learns not to try at all, but merely to be open and allow?

Is spiritual development a hard life? It is if you want it to be...

ash

jilola

You've out your finger on the matter. Spiritual life is hard if you insist on keeping ti separate from your everyday life. There should only be one with both the spiritual and mundane balanced and feeding each other. So yes, it's hard if you make it so.
As for enlightenment, probably what you said is correct at leat to a degree. You can't force it by beating yourself to pulp but by allowing it to happen in its own time.

2cents & L&L
jouni

Terry B

Being miserable does not make you more spiritual.

I agree with Jilola, "there should only be one". Why would they be seperate? Life is life.

2 cents.

goingslow

I agree with Robert Bruce and things Ive read other people say.  Most people who have reached great spiritual heights have had harder lives and gone through more doing it.

I dont know though with all this theory how life is just life.. etc.. i think it clouds what people mean what they say that wiht people saying "life is what you make with it you have a spiritual side and anotehr side."

If you were raised with a lot of money, no worries.. you didnt care to spiritually enhance your life.  In a lot of ways it is easier especially when you're rewarded and told you're doing something great in the world you're living in.  

Being spiritual doesn't mean a harder life but you're not going to become spiritually advanced by living a cushy life and not going through trials.

Terry B

Trial or hardships can break you, or make you stronger. I don't deny the value of trial. Comfy cushy life can be a sort of trial in itself. What would you do if you're rich? Would you help people or would you just live a spoiled life? What is the repercussion of what you do or don't?

I highly respect Robert Bruce and what he has done. He has sacrifice and endure much trial. I can't even see myself doing what he did (so much for spiritual attainment [:)] ). But the thing is we might be talking about spirituality but we mean different thing. I'm not even sure what I mean by spiritual life..  heh..[:)]

All I know is that it's my life. [|)]


James S

It is bound to be harder for most of us to live a more spiritual life simply because we live in a very materialistic world.

I've often viewed native American Indians, or Australia's indigenous people who still live in the tribal ways of their ancestors to be naturally far more spiritual than most people of western cultures. They have no great need or desire for material things, so their thoughts are not cluttered by the pressures and lures of the material world.

That is all that really makes it hard for us - keeping our spiritual desires in front of our material desires.

James.

Usiimers

I agree that asceticism is something many people take from this.  I know that none of you are speaking of self imposed suffering.  
Where does inner peace fit in?
Doesn't living a spiritual, balanced life prevent many of the negative aspects of life from affecting us?  Do the ups and downs stay, yet our attitudes towards them evolve and cause us to see the depth in everthing that happens?  
It seems like there is so much contradiction.
I also agree that a spiritual life should be a part of our daily lives.  We should be spiritual beings no matter what we're doing.  Seperating them gets us into so many problems.

Doesn't like attract like?  I always believed that raises our conciousness creates peace and harmony both inside of us and in the outside world around us in a way.
Perhaps it is my young age(only 20...) that causes me to fail to see the wisdom of hard life experience as a teacher.  In a way I see it, but I would like to know if it's the only way to progress spiritually(psychic powers excluded), or if one can do it on their own will an bypass some of the sorrow using the wisdom of others as well as our own intuition as a guide.  
Thanks for all of your replies!  Many minds are greater than one...

Voltarrens

[:)]Inner peace comes in when you have progressed far enough along the path to see where you have been and are able to see that it is all learning experiences, and that the experiences are important in themselves, sometimes more than the end result which can sometimes seem pale.  It is all to be lived through.  I felt the same when I was 20 and wondered what it was all about and wondered why I had to go through all of it.

It is worth it, it does make sense, then there is a breakthrough and it all becomes clearer as a purpose comes to light in the process because that's what seems to be missing at the begining.  The purpose is not something you'd expect, something greater than the self. [;)][:)]

jilola

Voltarrens: Spot on. Couldn't put it better myself. It boils down to seeing the events in a lifetime in their proper perspective and function, in other words seeing the hardships and lessons as an integral part of your existence.

2cents & L&L
jopuni

Nick

What I've seen as I've gone this far through life is this. Along the way there will exist a series of tough choices or decisions that must be made. It is these tough choices where what we do or don't do can have an adverse effect on other people. So, I believe, that at least part of spiritual development rests on how well we handle these decisions.

Also, these tough choices are relentless to those on the spiritual path. That's because, like many of the people here at the forum know, we consider the spiritual impact of many of our acts and omissions. That is what makes some of these decisions so hard. Anyway, thats my 2 cents worth.

Very best,
"What lies before us, and what lies behind us, are tiny matters compared to what lies within us...." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

Adrian

Greetings everyone,

Yes, each and every difficult situation is another opportunity to learn the lessons that we are all here to learn. So when a difficult situation arises, or you meet a person who might appear to be particularly difficult to deal with, the situation should be approached calmly, and with gratitude for the opportunity to learn.

Believe me I speak from experience when I say I know how difficult this can be, but when you look at each situation, and then all of the situations that have occured during this life, then all becomes much more clear in the grand scheme of things.

Remember, if you do not learn the lessons in this life, then you will have to keep coming back and learn them in a next life. Seize each opportunity with willingness and genuine gratitude from the heart.

With best regards,

Adrian.
https://ourultimatereality.com/
Vincit Omnia Veritas

yoki_h

Within the  traditions off the kabala there is a believe that states  you are cast low ( ie hardship) this gives you the power to climb up higher than you were before .  
I know from  experiences that this is true , I have learnt compassion  ,self reliance ,emotional independence  and a few other  positive traits  from life's  hurts. And the same can be observed in those around you,a friend started on a spiritual path after her only sons suicide an other after the death off her husband .
I have heard it stated that pain is one off the universe greatest teachers .

cainam_nazier

I don't think that the expression spirituality=hard life is correct.  I mean sure the spiritual path is often marked with tests and challanges that need to be faced but does that mean that its a hard life.  

Life is what you make of it, is it not?  It's hard because you choose it to be.  YOu may not realize that you are doing it, but by simply resisting you are making it difficult.

Granted many of the highly spiritual people were delt a rather crappy hand of cards, but is that to say that thier spirituality was th cause of it?  I don't think so.  I believe that for most of these people the cards would have been delt the saem anyway, but it was thier spirituality that got them through it.  

From my point of view they made a choice.  They decided that these things were not going to beat them into the ground, so they overcame.  The truely hard life would be to resist and not make the choice.  And by doing so choosing to loose.

But then, after the fact, can you look back and say that you lived a hard life.  I mean, it couldn't have been that hard because you are still here.

Voltarrens

Perspective yes. [:)]
There are varying degrees of "difficultness" on the spiritual path of development from slight to overwhelming.  From my own experience, there have been times when I have become lost and look for answers which may be many years in coming.  Other times, what seemed like something large resolved suddenly and quickly with a shift in perception.  More has been learned in harder times...until a point had been reached where there was more clarity (another shift in reality) and a settlement within the self, but then this is also something to be learned along the way, something to be experienced rather than being learned through unclear words written down.

Novice

What's a 'hard life' vs an 'easy life'? I think they'll vary for each person asked because they're relative to everyone's own experiences. I think often times what we perceive to be 'hard times' occurs when we are in the middle of the situation. Sometimes it lasts for hours, sometimes for years or decades. But I think as we grow and evolve, our perception of our past experiences changes.

My childhood was far from ideal, and certainly not what I would choose to have my children live through. But by the same token, looking back on those experiences shaped who and what I am today. Changing them, would mean changing parts of me. My attitude has always been that while it wasn't perfect, it could have been worse.

I think what we perceive to be 'hard' is perceived as such because at the time we don't understand the reason for it. ONce the lesson is learned, our realization of it changes.

While I don't personally know anyone who is 'enlightened' or 'spiritually advanced' (never was keen on those terms) I would venture to guess that if you ask them why their life was so hard, they would probably respond with something about "being thankful for the opportunity they had" -- Just a guess on my part though.
Reality is what you perceive it to be.

Voltarrens

quote:
Originally posted by Novice

While I don't personally know anyone who is 'enlightened' or 'spiritually advanced' (never was keen on those terms) I would venture to guess that if you ask them why their life was so hard, they would probably respond with something about "being thankful for the opportunity they had" -- Just a guess on my part though.



[:)] we're all given what we need to advance, it's whether we choose to take up that challenge in life . . . and there is no guarantee that any individual will take it us as a spiritual/enlightened path. [;)]

Usiimers

Hello friends,
It's been a long long time since I last posted on this board.  
I'm working a lot these days on spiritual development.  OBEs is what got me on this path, but now I see that there is so much more than just OBE stuff.  I've ever met some pretty bad people who are into this stuff.  
I have begun meditating, practicing yoga, reading up on all the mystical traditions, and trying to be mindful and present in everything I do.  Of course none of this is easy.
Robert often talks about what a hard life the spiritual minded folks will lead.  This honestly scares me, though I would rather take some pain along with spiritual advancement than leave that path.  
This is from
This is from one of Robert's articles:
"Being good and striving hard for spiritual development is often not enough. Strength and spiritual maturity are required to accomplish great things in life. And these things always have a steep price tag. If ones hearts desire is to do great spiritual works, then one needs great spiritual strength and maturity. If these are not preexisting, life has many ways to teach what is necessary to realize ones goals. Hard life lessons are usually involved and many fall by the wayside.

For example, if one aspires to a spiritual level where one is capable of healing the sick, or casting out bad spirits, or seeing into the future, one must understand that these are not easy things to learn and do. All require great strength of character and spirit. If one does not have these, one could not withstand the negative spiritual forces the realization and use of these abilities would invoke. Taking this into account, one must either rethink ones goals and expectations or be prepared for it when life provides the necessary. The lessons involved may entail great suffering, physically, emotionally and spiritually. If this is accepted, and the lessons weathered stoically and good-naturedly, they will be of far shorter duration than they might otherwise be. This is sage advice to all who aspire to great spiritual attainment."

What is everyone's thoughts on this matter?  Have others who are involved in spiritual progress going through a lot of hardship or can this be transcended?  Is Robert right to say that it is almost inevitable?