Has The Church Failed You?

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Squeek

Yes.

I was an avid Catholic for 16 full years of my life.  I read some books.  Books are fun.

Anyway it was a good book, and it convinced me that religion is useless.  So now that's what I think.  Eh...there's alot more to it, but I'm just a lazy bum.

~Squeek

Tab

Similar to Squeek. I was raised Roman Catholic for 15 years and as such, mindlessley bought into it. Then, one day in June of 2002, I was supposed to go to a mass for my cousin's graduation, out in the mountains. I stayed back when we were entering to go to the bathroom, and then couldn't find where my family had gone to sit (big church), so instead I decided to wander around the mountains and watch the sun set.
It was at that time that I ultimately realized that organized religion was BS. I realized that God was anywhere that one personally finds him, not in any building. My philosophy became that everyone must find their own meaning for god within themselves, and until they find THEIR god, worship and religion is meaningless - it's just someone else's meaning for god.
Note that this was long before I was ever introduced to anything other than mainstream Christianity.

Needless to say a few months later I was introduced to OBE and all of this stuff and here I am.

Makaveli

I used to go a lot when I was younger but for the most part it didn't do anything for me that I can remember.  It seemed pointless and more like something to get out of the way, I finally realized just going to church doesn't make you spiritual or a good person.  Though I have seen a few people who it has helped but most people who go don't seem anymore spiritual then those who don't attend church.

James S

There were three main "brands" of church that I attended in the 16 odd years I called myself a christian - The Australian Uniting church (a presbyterian methodist blend), Assemblies of God pentecostal, and the Salvation Army. One of the major complaints I had with each was the corruption at the organisational level.

The Uniting church runs a humanitarian aid business called Life Line. A close friend who worked as a storeman in one of their warehouses ended up joining a union in order to get legal representation as he was being payed below award wages, yet was asked to fill in a tax declaration stating he was being paid above award. The regional manager, a pillar in the uniting church community along with many associated managers were charged with tax evasion and fraud.

The Salvation Army similarly has a very poor workplace relations record and has been investigated a number of times for corruption in their higher levels.

Many individual Assemblies of God pastors have also been charged with fraud after being caught taking large tythes from their members, even to the point of convincing people it would be in thier best interests if they would take out second mortgages to tythe that, or sign over the titles of their houses to the pastor. The pastors have then been caught embezzling church funds. There seems to be a large number of very wealthy preachers within the Assemblies of God ranks.

A more personal grievence with a pentecostal church was when a lady that was a member of the congregation, one of the most loving and joyful people I've known, was asked to leave the church because she had told the pastor she was experiencing clairvoyance. This, according to the pastor in a rather nasty sermon he delivered after the fact, was clearly the work of Satan who has been possessing this lady. She was without a doubt the most "christ-like" person in the congregation.

I have had similar encounters myself while in the Salvation Army, when it was becomeing quite clear that I simply was not going to fit into the box that they demanded of me. More than once I was prayed over to be released from Satan's deceptions in order to be freed of the desire to move along the spiritual path that I felt I was being called to.

Corruption, cliques, control of thought and narrow minded dogmas are what I experienced most in church. I could go on and fill pages here with examples of these problems that I've experienced, but I do not feel the need to dredge up any more of a forgotten and forgiven past.

Kind regards,
James.

Squeek

Eh, I guess I should have added a few things to clarify a bit.

I came here before I lost religion.  I was here for about 8 months actually, still making sure everything was OK with the rules of Catholicism...

One of the books I read is featured on these forums, and it's called "The Value of Life".  It's a book about reincarnation, something that the Catholic church has shot down as 100% false.  I've always believed in it, and the book just strenghtened that belief.

Another thing I forgot to mention was the fact that I am in CLC (Catholic Life Community).  It's a youth group with the church.  Even though I've given up on the religion, I'm gonna stick it out with these guys until I'm forced to leave with the rules that apply there... (You're not a youth at 18 [:)])

I'd never tell them anything about my life as I do here, nor would I tell my family.  So I'll still be dragged to church on occasional sundays and be forced to listen to some guy do the same things again and again...

That's one of my issues with the church. They never change.  It's the same words over and over again.  It's the most boring thing I've ever had to sit through all these years, and I'm sick of it [8D]

~Squeek

Mohamed

There was a time that I was open to all religions.  My friend is Catholic, so one day I went to church with him.  The priest that was holding prayers that day was drunk.  To add on top of this he drank wine on that very sitting (Said it represented the Blood of Jesus).  He then began to walk down the steps with bread in his hands (to dip in the wine and feed the people) when he almost fell down the entire fleet of steps.  I then thought, "No wonder drinking is forbidden in Islam and Judaism."

After the "hearing" was over and it was time to go home, me and my friend began to ask the priest questions.  He failed to reply us with legitimate answers and offered us free Bibles instead.  I did not want a Bible, I wanted answers!  I began to compare the Bible he gave me with other religious books out there and came to the conclusion that the Qur'an made more sense, and here I am now, a Muslim.
"Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before We clove them asunder, and We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?"
(The Qur'an, 21:30)

jc84corvette

The church never failed me yet.

PeacefulWarrior

Fortunately for me, I have never put my trust in a "church" as I believe that is silly.  I put my trust in God and I know He will never fail me.  Whent he truth rests upon your soul and you realize your true identity as a son or daughter of God, a part of the source, nothing will ever fail you again because you will realize that the only person or thing that can fail you is yourself.
We shall not cease from our exploration, and at the end of all our exploring, we shall arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.
T.S. Elliot
---------------
fides quaerens intellectum

Marker

The church never really failed me.  I stopped going when mine switched pastors.  The new pastor preached about money giving every other sermon, if not every one.  I still believe in God and much like Tab, my faith comes from my understanding of God, not from a book.  When I stopped going to church the woods behind my house became my church.  I enjoyed being there and found God.  I believe taking childern to church is a good thing though, because they learn about God when their parents might not be able to teach them.  I would never trade my church experiences for anything, nor do I want to go back.

-Kyle

Tenacious

Yes, church did fail me.  I do not believe I need to sit in a building and listen to people beside me trying to tell me I'm going to hell...  Thats not why church was invented.  I find that my home is my church, my parents are my priests, and god is always with me.  I believe in god, yes, but not the one that is going to send every last person to hell [:)]

-Tenacious[:P]

"The most interesting people in the world are those you do not understand" -Me

TheLunatic

The people of the church I once was a member tried to stop my satanic rise to power so I was forced to eliminate them all...

But on a more rational note I think that if you get any group of people together sooner or later someone is going to get hurt. People are completely incapable of being nice to each other and church people are some of the worst!

jc84corvette

quote:
Originally posted by Mohamed

There was a time that I was open to all religions.  My friend is Catholic, so one day I went to church with him.  The priest that was holding prayers that day was drunk.  To add on top of this he drank wine on that very sitting (Said it represented the Blood of Jesus).  He then began to walk down the steps with bread in his hands (to dip in the wine and feed the people) when he almost fell down the entire fleet of steps.  I then thought, "No wonder drinking is forbidden in Islam and Judaism."

After the "hearing" was over and it was time to go home, me and my friend began to ask the priest questions.  He failed to reply us with legitimate answers and offered us free Bibles instead.  I did not want a Bible, I wanted answers!  I began to compare the Bible he gave me with other religious books out there and came to the conclusion that the Qur'an made more sense, and here I am now, a Muslim.



Very good point about drinking.

PyroPsion69

quote:
So I'll still be dragged to church on occasional sundays and be forced to listen to some guy do the same things again and again


I feel you there brother. Its pointless, after three years its the sam readings over again. Just differentiating a religion from other religions defeats the point right there. Religion is supposed to bring people together, not lable them for their brand of belief. I don't completely dissagree with Catholocism, I just disagree with a lot of things things that it says, all of them, actually, are things people interpretted (for the most part). I've even had a few talks with my mother (she's Catholic) about things like heaven and hell, and she agrees with me on a few things (except I believe in reincarnation). Like that there is an actual entity Satan. There is no one being that controls all the evil in the world, evil comes from human greed and thoughlessness.

And I dunno why but I just have this massive pet peeve about people who take the bible literally. My friend's mom won't let her son practice psionics because it is "devil worship", hasn't even thought twice about the writings on Psipog about how it has nothing to do with religion. People fear what they don't know, most people are in fear, and I hate stupid people [:P].

Then there's the entire past of Christianity that really gets under my skin. The Crusades. The Inquisition. The Salem Witch Trials. If I were alive back during the trials, I would most definitely been burned as a heretic, even if I kept my mouth shut. People would just use it as an excuse to get me out of their life (yes teenagers can be very cruel). What happened to Thou Shall Not Kill? It should be changed to Thou Shall Not Kill, With the Exception if Thou Has Different Ideas, Beliefs, Etc. (see clause 2.035 of legal document 4c yada yada legal mumbo jumbo) But thats our world today.

jimbola

Ahem, religion especially christianity is nothing more than an emotional protection racket, believe in Jesus or go to hell is the message, might just as well be "give me your money or I break your legs", for this main reason I reject it on principle. I have never been religious, I don't believe a word of it at consider it totally harmful to the world at large. Organised religions are about power and control and seek to serve themselves and not others.
Is Christianity not just a watered down version of Judaism anyway? Jesus was apparently king of the Jews after all, so christianity is based on a compromise and not on true faith. "Ooh that Judaism is a bit full on, I know lets make it a bit less radical and call it er, Christianity" what a crock of poo.
I for one do not need a god in order to know the difference between right and wrong and I suggest that no-one else does either, don't carry on being a sheep, you must go out and be the shepherd instead, don't accept something just because you are told it by a man in robes, seek the truth and the facts and this way you will find enlightenment.

jimbola

...Furthermore (sorry), do you know why the clergy wear robes? Well it's quite simple, to make you believe them. Psychology is the key here, conformity and obedience. We will naturally prefer to follow the group/congregation (conformity) and will be much more willing to accept what we are told by what we percieve as an authority figure. We identify authority figures by their dress, such as policeman, security guard or in an experimental environment a scientist in a white coat. In this case we identify the authority figure by his robes, it's a calculated and deep rooted attempt and subsequent success by the church to control us through the use of psychological techniches in this case the trait of obedience.
Thankyou.

Cylentpanthur

I grew up Mormon, left it two and a half years ago, returned five months ago, and have since left it again. I will say that the Mormon religion has a lot going for it. The idea that we could be rewarded with Godhood after a faithful life appealed to me. There is a lot of love and peace in those who follow mormonism. But one of the guys I worked with started telling me one day about all of the "proof" he had that Joseph Smith could never have been a prophet. I took some of this back to my friends in the church, who all had agruements proving his "proof" to be false. This got me thinking. You really find what you go looking for. If you want the proof of something's falseness, you can find it, just as you can find proof of its truth. This made me question the very nature of organized religion. It seemed too internal to me to be dictated by all of the rules and standards that I didn't agree with, but followed because my religion dictated it. If religion is internal, the best we can do is follow the internal dictates of our own soul, and this is what I have resolved to do.


onefromsomewhereelse

The church hasn't failed me yet, but I sure have failed the church!
When you think about it, a church is for sinners; if we are not sinners, we don't need a savior.
I have attended a number of churches, beginning as a Catholic, checking out the cults, and settling into an independent church which teaches what I believe the Bible does....a strong, soverign Lord.

I'm trying to not fail the church any more, but I know I'll only get out of it what I put in to it.


xander

quote:
Originally posted by onefromsomewhereelse

The church hasn't failed me yet, but I sure have failed the church!
When you think about it, a church is for sinners; if we are not sinners, we don't need a savior.




I geuss this is why jesus told me I was to save myself and that I didn't need a church.

Xander

onefromsomewhereelse

Good luck.  There's always a first time.  I wish you well, my friend.

Tolvor

The Church has not failed me.  Nor can I think of a situation where it could.

I am a cradle Roman Catholic.  There have been times that I've disliked high profile people within the church, certain pastors, people within the church, and even specific churches.  However none of it has ever altered my perception that I have a duty to God (or higher power if you prefer).  I perceive that actions within the church or its makeup does not alter my relationship to the greater church.  In other words, the people of the church can disappoint me, but not the greater church itself.

Each persons approach to gaining wisdom must be a personal one.  I would not force a person to church, nor constain the decision.

Needless to say, I'm in deep conflict right now as I'm pretty sure that attempting OBE violates some major rule somewhere for *me* (ONLY A SIDE NOTE, please no debate).

goingnw

I am new to this forum and this is my first post.

I was brought up as a Catholic also.  I had to laugh when I read what Mohamed said - about the priest being drunk.  I was at a baptism once and the priest was so off-his-head drunk that he almost dropped the baby in the font.  The sad thing is that the baby's mother thought it was funny!  She wasn't annoyed with the priest or anything.  I was disgusted.  I left the RC church and joined another 'Christian' religion that really screwed me up big time - so now I don't know what to believe or where I'm going any more.

GNW


Ceriel N

I have no prblems with the local church. I think the people who work there tend to be kind-hearted.

I do however have a poblem with the egocentrical bunch of hypocrits that visit the church and preach dogma without understanding it.
"We work in the dark - we do what we can- we give what we have. Our doubt is our passion, and our passion is our task. The rest is the madness of art."
- Henry James

lifebreath

Sure! "The Church" has failed me, as has most anyone I've had any deeper relationship with than a passing "hello!" And, yes, I have failed my brothers and sisters as well. We, as humans, have great capacity for love and a simultaneous tendancy to hurt others through our selfishness. Who is "The Church," after all? WE (who are involved in a church) are the church. Imperfect people trying our best to grow spiritually, trim away the dead wood within, embrace our difficulties, allowing them to transform us into more humble, generous and loving people.

In my mind, "The Church" fails because it holds up an ideal after which to strive. As humans, we are bound to fall during the journey. If we simply discarded the ideal, there could be no failure, because then everything would be relative.

So, I let go of ego, and find the deep abiding wellspring of love within and try to give, to build, to transform my church and my part of the world into a little bit more of a reflection of the Good, of Heaven. I put my faith in God - the God who has touched me with His awsome love, who has healed my deepest hurts, who has shown me great mysteries and who abides with and in me, as I abide in Him. And I walk forward.

madonafrk

When I was young growing up, my parents were divorced and I live with my Mother and brother. Everyother weekend I would go to my father's house, he would take us to church on sundays, and my mother would everynow and then take us to church!!!! It never made sense to me,,the church that is and the religous aspect of it! I tried a time where i would try and follow all the rules,,,,it made my life miserable, like,,oh my god, my mother is going to hell because she has sex with her boyfriend and she isnt married!! My brother and I even had a jehovah witness at our house once a week for bible study, which i might add they only taught about heaven and hell, and how you have to save yourself so u can go to the paradise place or be rewarded with it!! It neve made sense to me, just taught panic and fear and judgement on everyone!! Then i was introduced to my experiences with astral projection, esp, and encounters with entities!!! I strongly believe in reincarnation!! I believe the church corrupts people's minds and gives them false hopes!! You ever notice how people in your own family with strong religious backgrounds tend to be more judgemental towards you??? but yet they are your own flesh and blood!!!!
jsb

Ankhrekhu

I must admit I too am disillusioned with the church. But I think its a pity that in many cases ALL christians are tarred with the same brush. During my life I have held just about most interpretations of Christianity. I believe that the time is long overdue to get rid of the traditions that have been handed down without question and look more to the founder of the faith than those who had an axe to grind in forming tortuous doctrines that help no one. There is much in the man Jesus that I admire; much that is lost in the church. And I agree that the church has developed stratagies in the past (like hell) to frighten people into its ranks by inventing all manner of concepts presented by 'infallible' beings who just like power and position.

In my view God is in all, and we must experience him where he is most real to us. That might be in a church or on the mountain tops. For my own part, all my true spiritual experiences have come from being with nature and not inside a cold lifeless building.