How many of you believe in God?

[DjMidgetMan]

quote: I am just curious, parts of the bible say stuff like you shouldn't deal with fortune tellers and play with spirits and stuff. Cause it is actually tricks from satin. Yet a lot of you say you used to see them and stuff. I was just curious if any of you believe in God. I am not asking you what you believe in, but I just want to know if any of you believe in God- holy bible God?

I believe in God, but I do not believe he has a son, and I do not believe that Jesus died for our sins. I do not believe in the Holy Trinity, and I do not believe in the idea of Brahma.

I do not see God as simply a 'source' in which all things sprouted from, in that if this was so, the entire universe would not be bound by any sort of law, nothing would be measured and proportioned, and the universe would be mindless chaos.

But in reality, the universe is not mindless chaos, the moon revolves around the earth, the earth revolves around the sun, the sun revolves around the galaxy and so on. If you observe the rain cycle, the creation of man from a small drop of fluid, and the rest of creation, there IS planning involved. Whether you deny it or not, we are measured out stage to stage in the womb of our mothers and this is not mindless action. As we grow as children, our minds are programmed to learn quickly and we are able to speak to our fellow humans, could this simply from a mindless source? The water evaporates, condensates and falls to the ground all in measure, causing plants to grow, and fruits for us to eat, and the water evaporates once again, and condensates again,  and after the plants have died down again, water falls from the clouds, causing the plants to grow and the creatures to eat from them. How could you say this is action without forethought? How could you say that the earth revolving steadily on its axis, causing the day to turn into to night, and the night to turn into day, making it possible for us to live how we live, and for the plants to get enough sun light after they have been watered so that they may grow again. Everything is planned and measured by the one Creator of the universe, and He is not just a 'source' in my opinion.

The reason the Bible says that fortune tellers and 'magic' is sinful and should not be approached is because they are superstitious practices, which have their roots in polytheism, and cause people to assign attributes unto beings(such as humans who tell fortunes) which purely belong to God(knowing the absolute future.)

[onefromsomewhereelse]

I believe in the God of the bible; actually, saying you believe in God is not saying much, because even Satan believes in God!
There is one major difference between the Christian God and all others....actually, most Christians fall on the "wrong" side of the line, if you ax me....where is this line drawn?

It is drawn between being a child of God by your doing some works, and being a child of God in spite of your works, but because of the grace of God.  All world religons including most Christians believe that, if they do some good works.....you fill in the blanks for what the works are:  being baptised, feeding the needy, praying a certain way, etc.etc....then God owes them one.  He'll give you the wink and you'll make it to the big time.

The nearly forgotten/ignored teachings of the Bible indicate that, to the contrary of common sense, you are saved by no merit of your own, but exclusively because of being chosen by the Lord!   If God gave you the final choice, none would be saved, because all our works are as "filthy rags" to God, and fall far short of His standards.

Knocks the ego down, doesn't it?

[xander]

Originally posted by onefromsomewhereelse[/i]

I believe in the God of the bible; actually, saying you believe in God is not saying much, because even Satan believes in God!

> This is true....within the Christian tradition, but not all traditions have a "satan".

Xander

[Gandalf]

I am not an expert in the bible, but from what I know everything in the bible that talks about the future has come true so far. It talks about something about the eye and hand. Like when people will be tracked by their eyes and hand. Well that too has happen/is happening. It says the average life span of humans is around 70 which is true. Talks about all the wars and stuff. Plus other things. I just think that although their is no proof of God, the bible is hard to not take seriously. So that is why I was wondering if any of you believed in God(holy bible God), because the bible is not something with false readi
---------------------------------------------------

Well, not really. It is not nececerely the case that 'most things in the bible have come true'. It could also be the case that people have *interpreted* these things in the bible as refering to actuall events. Especially with vague statements, they can apply to anything. Revelations is a case in point, almost as bad as Nostradamus for vagaries.

Personally, I DO beleive in god but certainly not the christian notion.
I believe in a pantheistic notion of god as universe and everything in it. Including a whole heirarchy of beings within it, including us.
In this way, monotheism AND polytheistic ideas are BOTH right in a certain sense

IMO the idea that god is aware or interested (or gets involved) in event at out level is ridiculous. Sure there might be beings far down the line who are closer to us that might get invloved with out affairs.

Douglas

[Damballah]

i dont belive in god not in the way he is described by the bibel

[exothen]

I believe in the God of the Bible.

[Gandalf]

The nearly forgotten/ignored teachings of the Bible indicate that, to the contrary of common sense, you are saved by no merit of your own, but exclusively because of being chosen by the Lord! If God gave you the final choice, none would be saved, because all our works are as "filthy rags" to God, and fall far short of His standards.
Knocks the ego down, doesn't it?
----------------------------------------

Not really, especially if you don't happen to believe these teachings which were formulated by men in any case.

Do you *seriously* believe that god sometimes decides 'not to choose people' and by this they are condemened to burn in hell for eternity?

Do you *seriously* believe that the 'saved' are some kind of exclusive club where you have one chance to get in and then thats it, you are condemned for eternity?

This is what worries me about those who choose to believe in this aspect of Christian doctrine, as it can only lead to problems. How can you have a meaningful dialogue/relationship with the rest of humanity when you are convinced that they are going to burn? Apart of course, from feverishly trying to convert them which will lead to even more antagonsism?

According to your belief, (if we accept that non-christians will not get to heaven) then god routinly condemns over half the worlds population on a constant basis, just because they dont follow his strict form of religious observance.... doesnt sound much like any kind of god that I would like to follow... nor does he sound like the 'god of unconditional love' either. His unconditional love is conditional!!!

Of course, some christians have got out of this by saying that people CAN still get to heaven even if they are not christian as it is possible to be 'good but mistaken'.
This makes much more sense IMO and makes god out to be much less of a hitler like figure, but it is nevetheless a compromise.

I believe the Catholic church has accepted this modification which is a step forward, however, other hard core christians will never accept it.

Douglas.

PS
According to this line of belief I will burn as well....yeah!!!

I really do feel sorry for all those in the 'Belief system territiories' that do condemn themselves to these kind of self inflicted punishments through such beliefs.

[Ceriel N]

Beleif in God versus beleif in the bible. Most xians rather avoid this question rather than give it the answer it deserves.
And don't say they are one and the same. Blasphemy is nothing if not claiming an infinite entity can fit between the covers of a small book.

[xander]

quote:Originally posted by Ceriel N

Blasphemy is nothing if not claiming an infinite entity can fit between the covers of a small book.

Last week one of my resligious Studies professors said something along those lines. He also said it was blasphemy to claim that GOD looks human.

Xander

[exothen]

Gandalf,

quote:Do you *seriously* believe that the 'saved' are some kind of exclusive club where you have one chance to get in and then thats it, you are condemned for eternity?

I do. Surely you don't believe that we get many chances after we die, do you?

quote:According to your belief, (if we accept that non-christians will not get to heaven) then god routinly condemns over half the worlds population on a constant basis, just because they dont follow his strict form of religious observance

Perhaps you could list this "strict form of religious observance" for me since I am unaware of it. People are condemned because they fail to acknowledge God for who he is and accept the sacrifice of Christ.

quote: nor does he sound like the 'god of unconditional love' either. His unconditional love is conditional!!!

His love is unconditional. What a lot of people seem to gloss over is the fact that his love and his holiness demand that he also be just.

Ceriel N,

quote: Beleif in God versus beleif in the bible. Most xians rather avoid this question rather than give it the answer it deserves.
And don't say they are one and the same. Blasphemy is nothing if not claiming an infinite entity can fit between the covers of a small book.

The Bible is the means by which God has chosen to reveal himself.

Xander,

quote:He also said it was blasphemy to claim that GOD looks human.

And who makes this claim?

[Ceriel N]

quote:Originally posted by exothen


Ceriel N,

quote: Beleif in God versus beleif in the bible. Most xians rather avoid this question rather than give it the answer it deserves.
And don't say they are one and the same. Blasphemy is nothing if not claiming an infinite entity can fit between the covers of a small book.

The Bible is the means by which God has chosen to reveal himself.

That does not address the question nor the statement. Try agai.

quote:Originally posted by Xander


He also said it was blasphemy to claim that GOD looks human.

Saying that God looks like anything at all isn't accurate. Saying God looks human is wishful thinking. Everything is a part of "God", and "God" is in everything. Problem is that we think that we are the only form of sentient / intelligent life there is.

[Gandalf]

belief in god and the bible are one and the same

Of course they are not.. what an absurd idea IMO, all part of the usual fundi argument that Christianity is the only true religion and everyone else (most of the worlds population in fact) are mistaken and all other conceptions of god are wrong.
Im sure many buddists are really worried by the fact that they are going to hell....not!

The Bible is the means by which God has chosen to reveal himself._

Very good Exothen, I'm glad you feel this but I think its interesting that you come up with these statements as fact. There is no attempts at 'IMO' or 'in the christian churches opinion'.

What the bible says is the Truth according to you and no-one is going to be allowed to say otherwise.

His love is unconditional. What a lot of people seem to gloss over is the fact that his love and his holiness demand that he also be just_ Exothen

So in fact it is NOT unconditional! or perhaps he still loves them even when they are burning in hell for eternity with absolutly no chance of rehabilitation.... what a maniac! just shows us all that fundi-christian notions are completly incompatible with modern notions of justice and rehabilitation... Im glad you are not a judge.

Do you really believe that we get just one chance in life and then thats it for eternity?

I do. Surely you don't believe that we get many chances after we die, do you?

Actually I do. Furthermore, the christian notion that we have just one chance and thats it for ever, comes across as absurd IMO, not to say an awful waste of resources.

Interestingly, in the old Greek version of the bible people are stated to have gone to hell for 'an aeon' In Greek language an aeon was always a finite amount of time, usually a 1000 years.
However in the later translations the word aeon was changed to 'eternity'. A small and yet fundamental change.

Anyway, what is the point, you are never going to listen.
I presume you have joined these forums to 'save' us all. Well I'm glad to say that I will not be 'saved' by the likes of you or your conception of god.


Douglas

PS Anyway Exothen, this forum is for discussion of other world religions, not christianity, so if you would kindly remove yourself back to the christian forums where you belong, you would be doing us all a favour. There are two forums that have been set up especially for people just like you, so that you wouldnt annoy the rest of us.. kindly use them.

[exothen]

Ceriel N,

quote:That does not address the question nor the statement.

Yes it does. If you think it doesn't, then perhaps you can clarify the point you were trying to make.

Gandalf,

quote:There is no attempts at 'IMO' or 'in the christian churches opinion'.

IMO and in the Christian church's opinion; that's what makes Christians Christians.

quote:What the bible says is the Truth according to you and no-one is going to be allowed to say otherwise.

People can say whatever they want but I have very rarely seen anyone post anything about the Bible that is correct. It also seems that the Bible isn't truth to you and you don't like it when anyone says otherwise. Truth is absolute. We are not both right, we can't be.

quote:So in fact it is NOT unconditional! or perhaps he still loves them even when they are burning in hell for eternity with absolutly no chance of rehabilitation.... what a maniac! just shows us all that fundi-christian notions are completly incompatible with modern notions of justice and rehabilitation.

Umm, no, God's love is unconditional. There is no incompatibility at all.

quote:Actually I do. Furthermore, the christian notion that we have just one chance and thats it for ever, comes across as absurd IMO, not to say an awful waste of resources.

Reincarnation perhaps? We can get into the self-contradictory and irrationality of that position if you like.

quote:I presume you have joined these forums to 'save' us all. Well I'm glad to say that I will not be 'saved' by the likes of you or your conception of god.

I joined these forums to save no one. I joined because I was asked and I have stayed because I have never seen so many misconceptions about the Bible or Christianity.

quote:PS Anyway Exothen, this forum is for discussion of other world religions, not christianity, so if you would kindly remove yourself back to the christian forums where you belong,

Perhaps you missed the main question of this thread; I merely answered it like everyone else did and am attempting to defend the Bible against ignorant statements such as the ones you make. It shows just how "open-minded" you really are.

[bomohwkl]

When you look yourSELF by looking within, you find that when someone believes in something that always has DOUBT of the truthfulness. Faith is not enough, but the knowledge is.
We all need to KNOW that God exists.
How do we able to reach that level of mentality?

[xander]

quote:Originally posted by exothen
[Xander,

quote:He also said it was blasphemy to claim that GOD looks human.

And who makes this claim?

well Exo, if you read my post it would be clear to you. I can understand the reasoning behind it.

I think GOD can choose to look like anything she wants but to claim GOD is some bipedal being just like us is a bit limiting.

Xander

[Gandalf]

I love how Exothen does not provide proper answers, just vagueness.



IMO and in the Christian church's opinion; that's what makes Christians Christians.

Pardon?


Truth is absolute. We are not both right, we can't be.

Yeah but I dont claim to be on the 'true path' to everyone, which you do. I also do not quote from the bible as if it were absolute truth and make blanket statements about how the bible is gods truth, with nothing to back it up.


Umm, no, God's love is unconditional. There is no incompatibility at all.


You believe that gods love in unconditional but you also believe that people get one chance at life and if they fail they go to hell for eternity..
please explain then how god's love is unconditional without sounding absurd. ie 'he loves them even when they are burning in hell through his command'.
your answer will probably be that it is not gods command. these people did it themselves, but this is a silly attempt to portion the blame onto someone else. HE was the one who made up the rules so he takes responsibilty!


Reincarnation perhaps? We can get into the self-contradictory and irrationality of that position if you like.


Go on then, it cant be any more absurd than the useless waste of resources that you postulate.

Also there are many differing theories of reincarnation so I would be interested to hear what one you have been exposed to.

By you statement I presume then that you find other religions like Hinduism and Buddhism 'self-contradictory and irrational' as well.
GOOD!


I joined these forums to save no one. I joined because I was asked and I have stayed because I have never seen so many misconceptions about the Bible or Christianity.


bovine excrement... you are doing gods work, why try to hide the fact.

Douglas

[onefromsomewhereelse]

Douglas,  you must have misread my post; there is no chance system with the Lord.
Why?  Because, in our natural state, we are spiritually dead.  d..e..a..d...   Dead people don't have the ability to choose good or bad!

The beauty of true Christianity is that God chose some from this vast spiritual graveyard to inherit eternal life, not by anything they did (being dead, they couldn't do anything), but because He just felt like it.   Those who are the children of God can't boast about it, because they should know that they had nothing to do with their choice.  Those who aren't chosen don't want eternal life, and get what they want.

God could have chose all, or none.  Why He chose some, we don't know.  Those He didn't choose were already going to hell.  He didn't put them there.  Those He did choose deserve Hell, but, in spite of themselves, not because of themselves, they have eternal life.

When God chooses someone, the person gets indwelt with the Spirit.  Their eyes are now open, and their ears can now discern spiritual things.  They have a new nature in their spiritually corrupt bodies, alongside of their carnal/human nature.  Sin now, for the first time, bothers them, because of the indwelt Spirit.  There is struggle there.  You can do right, or do wrong.  If you do wrong, it'll eat at you until you can't stand it.
If you are among non Xtians, you'll faithfully worship what you know....Buddah, etc.etc.

If you happen to run into a Xtian preacher, if he is like the phonies on TV, you'd be better off remaining a Buddhist than being a Jim Baker prototype.  If, however, you hear a true Xtian (I llike this abbreviation) preaching the true gospel... showing a personal, fatherly God and not a distant "source", showing that you are adapted into his family... You'll probably convert to Christianity, knowing that being a Xtian isn't the only way, but is the most knowledgeable way.

[xander]

Originally posted by onefromsomewhereelse[/i]

Douglas,  you must have misread my post; there is no chance system with the Lord.
Why?  Because, in our natural state, we are spiritually dead.  d..e..a..d...  

>Many disagree with that statement. You are assuming an epoche.

Dead people don't have the ability to choose good or bad!

>In that case their is no freewill thus we might as well do whatever cuz then it doesn't matter.

The beauty of true Christianity is that God chose some from this vast spiritual graveyard to inherit eternal life, not by anything they did (being dead, they couldn't do anything), but because He just felt like it.  

>The ugly side is that there will be ones not chosen and according to the xian tradition they shall be tortured in hell for eternity.

Those who are the children of God can't boast about it, because they should know that they had nothing to do with their choice.

>Yet many do boast.....wasn't PRIDE satans sin?

Those who aren't chosen don't want eternal life, and get what they want.

>You earlier said that people don't have choice, thus they have no opinion on whether or not they are chosen.


God could have chose all, or none.  Why He chose some, we don't know.  

>How elitist of him.

Those He didn't choose were already going to hell.  He didn't put them there.

>So again we have predestination, we don't choose but neither does he. so your saying god has no control over the place he created to torture people. We do it to ourselves?.....ah yes Hitler also used that excuse to slaughter Jews.

>Xander (slips on some steel toed boots)

>P.s. You make god sound like a petty, egotistical, sadistic a*sclown who NEEDS his A*S kicked

[WalkerInTheWoods]

Well, onefromsomewhereelse, that is ... umm ... definately different. Never heard that theory before.

quote:Actually I do. Furthermore, the christian notion that we have just one chance and thats it for ever, comes across as absurd IMO, not to say an awful waste of resources.

Not really a waste. Heaven is a small place but it is cold there. So it needs a big furnace with a lot of fuel. []

[kakkarot]

i don't think you understand what death means onefromsomewhereelse. it means a seperation, not an inability to do things.

and from that understanding, if a person is dead (in God's eyes) they are seperated from Him and it just means that to "live with Him" they must do something to remove that seperation (and according to the bible, that would be to get baptized and to repent of your sins and then to live in Godliness (ie, live like God)).

of course a person has the ability to make choices, and it is by that choice that we CHOOSE to follow God. if WE did not make that choice, after all, then we are not FOLLOWING God's will and making ourselves slaves to God, but we are being FORCED into slavery for God. which is not what the bible says.

it is by our choice that some follow, our free will that some don't follow. it is by our free will that we do anything. of course, God does choose certain people to do certain things for Him, but He does not decide that for everyone.

even if you don't agree with what i've written, hopefully that will help you understand something that will help you [|)].

~kakkarot

[onefromsomewhereelse]

When I mentioned us being naturally spiritually dead, I was referring to the standard Judeo/Christian line, as in "dead in sin".  If we aren't, then we don't need a saviour; we can do it by ourselves, as in the free will line of thought.

Thank you for the input.  By "death" (spiritual) I believe we agree; all I am saying is that a spiritually dead person can't make any spiritual choice, anymore than one can go to a cemetary and talk to the physically dead people there and expect a reply.  They are both seperated from the norm.

Please help me understand your difference, in this context, between seperation and the ability to do things.  I don't see any.  If one is physically dead, then, in this area, one loses the ability to do physical things, etc. etc.  Is this not so?

We are free moral agents, and not free willers.  We can do anything we want within our limits.  A man cannot fly, etc.  God cannot sin, etc.  Pigs cannot stay out of the mud.

Someone said my last post was different.  I did't realize that, since it is just historic Christanity, without being marinated in the juice of freewillism, which, although being declared heresy 400 years ago, is now again in vogue.

[Gandalf]

Unfortunately, as someone earlier pointed out, your idea is basically another take on the 'its not gods fault they go to hell line' which doesn't wash with me. It IS his fault if we believe he is omnipotent, which according to Christian doctrine he is. Why then did he create a whole load of spiritually dead people and/or allow this situation to occur if he can do *anything*, and then start picking individuals out of the pile?

Looks like he isn't omnipotent after all. Also,in the end we are still left with the situation where the majority of the world's population goes to hell on a regular basis. Nice... especially when god created all these individuals in the first place.

Why don't you accept the modification to this principle which has been adopted by the 'sensible' Christian community? They now accept that it is still possible to get to heaven even if they have not adopted Christianity, as long as they have led a morally good life.
This is because it is possible to be 'good but mistaken', (from a christian viewpoint).

I know, it's still not perfect and still has god throwing people into eternal oblivion on a regular basis, but at least it means he is no longer condemning perfectly good people who happen to follow another religion (like the majority of the earth). The Catholic Church has already accepted this modification.

Of course, you won't, as you are a fundi, which will only mean that you will grow increasingly distant from the rest of the Christian community and 'reasonable' society in general.


Douglas

PS all this has reminded me of a bit of Classical Greek philosophy which has some connection to do with what we're talking about here:

In asking a seemingly innocent question, Plato issues a severe criticism of 'divine command theory' with the famous 'Eurephro's Dilemma', which maybe you should check out as it highlights the serious incompatibility with the notion that god can be omnipotent AND wholly good.

Plato has Socrates ask: 'Is something good because the gods command it, or do the gods command it because it is good?'

Substitute 'the gods' for 'god' if your prefer.

Interesting!

[kakkarot]

ah, i think i understand your position better now [|)]. and i think i understand where we disagree in this argument: i believe that God has already done something to allow us in our "deadness" (seperation from truth and purity) to be able to still make the choice to follow God, in that Jesus died as an atonement for our sins which seperated us.

when we are dead to God, we may not be able to feel Him, but we still feel. and i know that even before i turned to God i understood what kind of love Jesus had to have for us in order for him to willingly sacrifice himself so our sins could be forgiven. and i chose to search for God because of the love which Jesus displayed towards me and after a time God revealed Himself to me and i then *knew* the love of God.

before we find God (or rather, before He reveals Himself to us) we cannot *know* Him. but that doesn't mean we can't know anything about Him, which is why He sent Jesus: so that people would come to know God through the Christ. the Christ manifest physically as Jesus, and people were able to know Jesus because he lived with them. through knowing Jesus they came to know the Father, even without having known the Father before that.

God has revealed Himself to us through His son, and it is now up to us to decide whether we truly want to know God or not. God took a step towards initiating a relationship with people, and it is now up to us to connect the other end of it: a friendship is two way and is definately agreed upon by both parties or it is not truly a friendship. if a person walked up to you and said that you and they were friends because they decided to make you their friend, would you have an actual friendship with them? no, because both people must decide to be the other person's friend before it can be a friendship.

and that is what God desires, as far as i know: a friendship with us. with ALL of us [|)]. sure not everyone is going to want to find God, but that is still their choice.

~kakkarot

[exothen]

Gandalf,

quote:I love how Exothen does not provide proper answers, just vagueness.

You love that, do you? If there is any vagueness, it's on your end of things.

quote:IMO and in the Christian church's opinion; that's what makes Christians Christians.

Pardon?

Such as here. What don't you understand about that? You stated that I didn't use 'IMO' or 'in the Christian churches opinion,' so I merely replied it is my opinion which is the churches opinion, IMO[].

quote:I also do not quote from the bible as if it were absolute truth and make blanket statements about how the bible is gods truth, with nothing to back it up.

Everyone wants the proof that the Bible is God's truth. I could give it, and I think I owe someone it anyways, but it is a very long process, for the appropriate forum.

quote:You believe that gods love in unconditional but you also believe that people get one chance at life and if they fail they go to hell for eternity..
please explain then how god's love is unconditional without sounding absurd. ie 'he loves them even when they are burning in hell through his command'.

From the Christian perspective (since that is what we are dealing with), everyone enters the world already in a state of seperation from God, which means that they are going to hell anyway. God showed his love by sending Christ to die for our sins as a means of reconciling us back to himself.

God is just, which means that he must deal with those who rebel against him, which is what sin essentially is. You don't want to accept God now or live for him, he respects that and allows you to do so for eternity.

quote:Go on then, it cant be any more absurd than the useless waste of resources that you postulate.

Also there are many differing theories of reincarnation so I would be interested to hear what one you have been exposed to.

You may well know better than I which theory I have been exposed to. It may be a mix or general rebuttal of several theories.

1. Moral argument: in pantheism "there is no source for the moral standards that karma enforces." Since there is no ultimate difference between good and evil, all morality becomes relative. But if nothing is right or wrong, then "karma has no business punishing anyone for it."

2. Social argument: if we have had hundreds, or more, chances to improve over millions of years, we should have made moral progress, but there is no evidence of that. As an aside, morality has to be absolute in order to even draw a comparison, otherwise, to what standard is one comparing?

3. Problem of Evil and Infinite Regress: "if suffering in this life always results from evil done in a previous life, then there would have to be an infinite regress of past lives. But an infinite regress in time is not possible, since if there were an infinite number of moments before today, then today would never have come." Since today has come, there has not been an infinite number of past lives. And, of course, science tells us that time isn't eternal.

"On the other hand, if there were not an infinite number of lives before this one, then there must have been a first life in which a previous incarnation was not the cause of its evil."

4. Problem of Infinite Time and Lack of Perfection: "In an infinite amount of moments there is more than enough time to achieve the perfection of all souls which reincarnation is designed to do. In short, all souls hould have achieved oneness with God by now, if there had been an infinite amount of time to do so. But they have not. Hence, reincarnation has failed as a solution to the problem of evil."

These are all from Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics, by Norman L. Geisler.

quote:By you statement I presume then that you find other religions like Hinduism and Buddhism 'self-contradictory and irrational' as well.
GOOD!

Is that a 'real' GOOD, or are you toying with me?

quote:bovine excrement... you are doing gods work, why try to hide the fact.

That is the truth Gandalf. Of course there will be some preaching in my posts, I am compelled to do so, but I was simply asked to come here and I stay because I want to clear up misconceptions. I am not here to save anybody.

[bomohwkl]

Why do we NEED to believe or know that God exist? Why do we NEED God?

What happen if you believe that God exist?
To satisfy God so that God doesn't get angry with your sins? Why are we so eager to worship God? Out of fear? So that you can enter heaven and not hell?
Do you worship your parents? If your parents give you some gifts, do you worship them?
What is your motives for getting closer to God? To make HIM happy? Or because you FEAR that you will burn in Hell?

Interesting.........