How was God created?

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wisp

MS, Maybe the world's a safer place with it this way. Teehee

Mustardseed

Absolutely. It is hard to explain but I feel like maybe she takes her self very serious. I know I am just a fool, and having made the mistakes I have I am quite aware of my own failability. Ha I love THE ALLEGORY OF US ALL BEING KIDS. I FOR ONE FEEL LIKE ONE
Love MS
Words.....there was a time when I believed in words!

wisp

Mustardseed,
Unresolved parental issues will manifest in the kind of child of God we are. There are the innocent, and there are also the brats. Brats are immature spiritually. Good with facts, weak in other things.

This is not a dig to Beth. We all hold, and can express these attributes (innocent vs brat). This could be a clue to why Beth holds so tight to her facts. Some things we don't understand I guess. Her strengths and weaknesses are not my business. I'm too busy with own, haha.

I asked you about where to find some of your experiences in another thread. I can't find them (under lover astral realm, can't locate it). That okay though, if it were meant to be, it will be. I'll eventually happen across them.

Mustardseed

Actually it is called "Lower astral regions" oops[;)]. Rerards MS
Words.....there was a time when I believed in words!

one_each

Isn't the "lover astral region" in the "lower astral region" or were you thinking about a different place?   [:D]
When a problem comes along
You must whip it

jc84corvette


bomohwkl

"The "Scholars' Translation" of the Gospel of Thomas
by Stephen Patterson and Marvin Meyer

18 The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us, how will our end come?"
Jesus said, "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is.
Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

50 Jesus said,
"If they say to you, 'Where have you come from?' say to them, 'We have come from the light, from the place where the light came into being by itself, established [itself], and appeared in their image.'
If they say to you, 'Is it you?' say, 'We are its children, and we are the chosen of the living Father.'
If they ask you, 'What is the evidence of your Father in you?' say to them, 'It is motion and rest.'"


IF you understand the meaning of the three sayings, you will know how God is created.

bomohwkl

18 The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us, how will our end come?"
Jesus said, "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is.
Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

Beth

bomohwkl,

There is a thread in the Early Judaism and Christianity Section on the Gospel of Thomas. This is such a wonderful text, I hope that you will continue your postings in that thread.  I made it a sticky again for you.  There is also one for the Gospel of Philip.

Peace,
Beth
Become a Critical Thinker!
"Ignorance is the greatest of all sins."
                   --Origen of Alexandria

jc84corvette

quote:
Originally posted by bomohwkl

18 The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us, how will our end come?"
Jesus said, "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is.
Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."




I heard that before...Is that a popular saying?

The AlphaOmega

God did not create Himself, He simply always was.  He is eternal.  Eternal does not mean he cannot die, but that He cannot die and was never born... He always was.  This is an IMPOSSIBLE concept for us to believe in this life, but a certainty in the next.  We ourselves have eternity to discover ourselves and the truth... why ask impossible questions in a world where for all intensive purposes we are unwise?
"Discover your own path to enlightenment with diligence".
              - Buddha

lifebreath

quote:
by bomohwkl quoting "The Freedom of Choice":

Imagine The Beginning.
The Beginning of Everything.
There is NOTHING.
Absolutely Nothing - no space, no time, no perception, no
consciousness - nothing.
Can you imagine TRUE NOTHING?
I know that it is hard, but try...
Imagine theoretical, hypothetical, absolute NOTHING that had
to exist before anything else in The Beginning.
The Beginning of Everything.
Try to imagine NOTHING in your mind.
Now, how many absolute "Nothings" like that can exist?
If you say 2 or more - neither of them will be "nothing"
anymore - there will be 2 of "something" that you defined and
distinguished as 2 separate "things".
So, we have to conclude, that in The Beginning - there could
only be ONE NOTHING.
Singularity.



This makes me think of Aristotle's Law of Non-Contradiction ... By defining the beginning as this singular "nothing" you have actually created an internal contradiction - the "nothing" has been defined, "named" if you will, and thus is a "thing." One cannot truly imagine NOTHING, for in so doing, it becomes a thing, and object, a construct of the mind, defined in terms of that which it is not.

Which leads back to alphaomega's post (and username): God was not created, God simply IS, has been and will be - the beginning and end and beyond all conceptions, yet manifest in being. The unnameable, unimaginable, beyond time and space, without beginning or end. And yet ... God is manifest in the very fabric of our being, our minds, our souls, and in all of that which dances in time and space - Creation.

God ... simultaneously transcendent and immanent.

Coffee

If God create a rock that is too heavy to move then obviously he can't move it and he's not all-powerful.  If he can't create the rock, then he's not all powerful...

If he's not all powerful, then is he God?

Coffee

I don't know how to get anywhere just debating where God came from and whether he exists, because I don't know anything about him as an individual.  Is he perfect?  Is he everywhere?  Is he everywhen?  Is he good or evil?  

If he is a perfect, all knowing, all seeing, perfect God, then he obviously came from everywhere and nowhere (which is somewhere) and does everything by doing nothing because he is perfect.

But I have no reason, no empirical reason to believe he's perfect.  If God was perfect he wouldn't have split up jerry rice and joe montana from the 49ers.  He would strike down the backstreet boys with fire and brimstone, and he would have started one religion instead of a million.

I don't know where he came from but he can go to hell.

exothen

Coffee,

quote:
If God create a rock that is too heavy to move then obviously he can't move it and he's not all-powerful. If he can't create the rock, then he's not all powerful...



This is a logical impossibility. To paraphrase C. S. Lewis regarding this argument: nonsense is still nonsense even when it is spoken about God.

God just is. He identifies himself in the Bible as "I am that I am." He is Pure Actuality, is self-existent, is immutable, is indivisible, is an absolutely necessary Being, is omniscient and omnipotent, and is eternal (among other things). And he is personal.
"When men cease to believe in God, they do not believe in nothing; they believe in anything." G.K. Chesterton

Coffee

to paraphrase nonsense about this argument:  cs lewis is still cs lewis even when spoken about about god.  That's right, you tackled my so called "nonsense" with more nonsense.  God just is?  I am that I am?  I might as well say it.  

I just am.

Do I sound like God?

How about "I have a butt so I can have a butt?"

i guess it only works when God says It.

I HAVE A BUTT SO I CAN HAVE A BUTT!

Is that more like it?

exothen

Coffee,

This is obviously way above your head.
"When men cease to believe in God, they do not believe in nothing; they believe in anything." G.K. Chesterton

Coffee

Which part is way above my head?  
How about the part about how God always justifies his existence with a riddle:

"I am that I am...

"I am the beginning and the end...but they're the same thing...

"The first will be last, and the last will be first...

"God simply is...duh...

He obviously didn't get far by justifying his proof with the conclusion, so he got a little further with his "the check is in the mail" attitude:

"First, you were all born slaves to free will, but you screwed that up so for a while you were all born slaves to sin, but since Christ died you're a slave to both.  But your reward is in heaven!  Whoo-hoo!  It's a party up in here!

In other words...

"You're all born sinners and even though I created you it's not my fault you sin, it's yours.  So if you worship me, I might let you into heaven.  If you don't worship me, or you do it half-butt, then I'll torture you for all eternity in hell.  Just remember, it's your choice, I'm not forcing you to worship me with an altimatum."

But then he bails out when you need him:

"Dear God, my recent injury has prevented me from working and we've run so low on money that I've lost my house, my car, and my wife.  My kids wear dirty clothes and always get in trouble at school.  I can't afford physical therapy, but without it I will never be well enough to work.  What do I do?"

No answer from God

"Dear God.  I need you so bad right now."

No answer.  Things just get worse, and God pretends not to hear you.

Let's pretend he answers:

"HEAR ME SINNER.  I AM GOD, YOU CAN TELL BECAUSE I ALWAYS TALK IN CAPITAL LETTERS.  REPENT FOR YOUR SINS"

"But God I need help.  The finance manager at the bank wouldn't cut me any slack on my payments.  Then he stole my wife.  Just strike him down with lightning."

"YOUR REWARD IS IN HEAVEN.  I WILL TORTURE YOUR ENEMY FOR ALL ETERNITY IN HELL.  PRAY FOR FORGIVENESS."

and so on.  

But then again, when does God answer prayers?  

He's like an invisible purple unicorn.  In order for the invisible purple unicorn to exist, you need to have two things:  knowledge and faith.  You know the unicorn is invisible because you can't see it.  And you have faith that it's purple.  

We do the same thing with God.  We prove he exists with faith and write it as a riddle or a paradox then call it knowledge, then use that knowledge to justify our faith.

But the truth is written in the Bible, you might say.  Did God write the part about taking your son on the mountain and sacrificing him?  Did he write the part about enslaving your neighbor and enslaving them?  Did he write the part about making enormous temples out of gold even though there were thousands of people nearby who were starving?  Or did he only write the nice parts, the psalms and such.

All I know is this:  God will probably read this Internet post, because he is everywhere and he is personal, so I'd better repent for doing it.

Here goes:

Please forgive me for writing this letter, because I thunk bad thoughts.

Forgive me for telling my brother that the burning bush was a venereal disease.

Forgive me for wanting to make God-fearing marital love to Brittany Spears (if you know what I mean).

Finally, forgive me for not knowing which riddles to believe in.  They're definitely way over my head.

Coffee

I didn't mean to be a conversation stopper, I really wanted to get a lot of other people's opinions.

In fact, I planned on making most of you really mad and getting a lot of furious responses.

Does this mean none of you have anything to say?  You don't care that I don't think God was created?  That I'm influencing other people to think my way?


John Gillespie

Think of GOD as a circle. There is no begining and there is no end

Coffee

Why should we think of God as a circle?  he only has a middle, no beginning or end?

lifebreath

quote:
In fact, I planned on making most of you really mad and getting a lot of furious responses.

Does this mean none of you have anything to say? You don't care that I don't think God was created? That I'm influencing other people to think my way?



If you really wanted to listen to others - as in dialogue -  they might speak. But since you seem rather inclined simply to denegrate others beliefs with sarcasm and mock their God ...

Anyway, what is, is, and needs no apologia, especially when one "has no ears to hear." God's appeal, his argument, his proof is already within you, in your very being, and in the fabric of all that IS around you.

Coffee


mattrox

he has no proof, only closed-minded faith

edit: she to he

lifebreath

Mattrox,

If you are referring to me as the close-minded one, you have absolutely no idea of the experiences that brought me to the point of understanding and belief that I have.

Are you really 14 years old, as your profile states? If so, my young friend, I was a "new ager" before you were even born ... literally.

Crystals? CHECK. Initiation? CHECK. Clairvoyance? CHECK. Materializations of objects? CHECK. Telekenisis? CHECK. Face to face encounters with angels and demons? CHECK. Hung out with the guru at the Hare Krishna temple in Chicago? CHECK. And on and on and on ...

In August, 1987, I was certain that the "collective Ego" had conspired against me and my friend as we attempted to go to a Harmonic Convergence meditation event. First we went to the wrong location, then my tire blew out, I had no spare ... never got there. Guess what? It was not any "collective Ego" attempting to bar my way. It was my own stupidity and irresponsibility in not maintaining my car properly!

In any case, I had a night in which I went down, down, down into the very pit of hell .... I came out, along with a friend, having battled very real demons (or Negs, if you prefer that language) and having a HUGE transformative experience of the Living, Loving God of All ... and all consuming Holy Fire in which I was baptized - immersed - changed - freed and, as Moses struck a rock in the Desert and fresh water flowed from it, a wellspring of tremendous life sprung up within my soul. A healing balm - the Waters of Shiloh.

In the many years since that time (about the number of years you have been residing in you current fleshly abode), I have taken a great deal of effort and time to meditate, fast, pray, learn and grow. Ahhh, but I'm close minded! Well, so be it ...

But That Which Is Simply Is ... It is It's own Proof, and It resides at the core and center of every living being, for one of It's names is Eyeh Asher Eyah, Being, manifested in all that is, yet not to be confused with that Creation. Both immediately immanant and eternally transendant. Mystery of mysteries revealed, I believe, in the Person of Jesus Christ.

Peace and grace to you ...