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Author Topic: I-Religion, Do we really need religion  (Read 6159 times)
Ryuji
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« on: May 04, 2006, 22:07:09 »

is there really a need for religion?

if its all man made interpretations, rules and regulations then without it would we all be free to live as people and not robots...

less bloodshed ?

Peace, love and blessings,
Ryu

 rolleyes  rolleyes  rolleyes  rolleyes  rolleyes  rolleyes  rolleyes  rolleyes  rolleyes  rolleyes  rolleyes  rolleyes  rolleyes  rolleyes  rolleyes  rolleyes  rolleyes  rolleyes  rolleyes  rolleyes  rolleyes  rolleyes  rolleyes  rolleyes
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Kallas
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« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2006, 22:15:33 »

Religion holds many negative connotations but there are also many positive things associated with it as well, its just we here often fail to see them. For instance religion although the cause of countless conflicts provides an individual with a reason for existence.

Whether the particular religion is correct or not is irrelevant the main point is that it an individual can belong and not feel as if there is no point in life. Religion also provides an individual with morals and interpretations as to right or wrong, and although this has been incredibly abused over the centuries it will still steer the average Joe along a reasonably "good" path.

As i said there are tons of negative connotations associated with religion but i seriously think that we do need it as i said in Donal's post people need belief. Religion provides an opportunity for that.

I'm not saying its right we all know that its often not, but still it is needed.
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« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2006, 22:15:33 »

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Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2006, 23:39:32 »

I have asked myself the same question, but the thing is that scientists have found areas in the brain dedicated to religious/spiritual thought, making me believe that we are hardwired for religion.  Then a swift look at history will show us that the few cultures that opted to eliminate religion (i.e. communism) ended up making their ideologies into a religion and enforced it as such.  In other words, we seem to need some sort of structure that functions as religion does.  I'm not saying it's a good thing, just it's something that I've observed.  And then, to top it off, we also seem to be hadwired for ritualistic behaviour, something which always becomes important in any religion, no matter how anti-ritual it may begin as.  Think about it.  We don't seem to feel secure unless we have some established ritual in our lives, even if we never have set foot into a church, temple or mosque.  Do you have a familiar routine?  What happens when you skip it?  Do you have 'lucky clothes', or 'lucky jewelry?' That's the kind of thing I'm talking about.  We seem to crave this kind of thing, and IMHO, it's part of why we're drawn so much to religious belief or religious dogma.  Of course, some have made UFOlogy or even skepticism their religion- and you can tell how it is when they will argue their point even to the point of absurdity- whatever the point is.
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Donal
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« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2006, 22:29:44 »

Just because areas become active in the brain when one thinks of them, it does not mean that the brain creates them, just as space-time, which we see as "out there", isn't really "out there". The mind is not the same as the brain, don't listen to the conclusions of materialistic scientists.

But I think people do need religion.
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no_leaf_clover
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« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2006, 22:48:00 »

I don't think there's anything to religion that you can't give yourself from your own personal philosophy or spirituality. And what's more is that that would help cut down on all the fear and ignorance and war resulting from masses of people believing the same tired things zealously.
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« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2006, 22:48:00 »



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James S
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« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2006, 03:35:16 »

The one (and possibly only) positive I see with religion is some people like to be provided with rules and routines in order to give themselves dicipline in their spiritual development.

Trouble is religions have a nasty habit of making out that their rules and routines are the only right way of going about things, and everyone else's ways are wrong.

For people who do require routine structures, there are many other ways, many other philosophies or organisations that can provide this sense of structure that don't require "right vs wrong" belief systems. Only hassle there is the dominant religions in our societies tend to take a very harsh and outspoken stance against such philosophies and organisations, making it difficult for such people to find something that works for them.

James.
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Ryuji
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« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2006, 11:37:12 »

There is of course good in everything. you can take the good from a religion. look at their teaching and further your knowledge even make it a way of life, but one should not let it become a Safety Blanket, Comfort Zone or only stability on your life.

once the safety blanket is threatened one tends to defend it. Once the comfort zone is being shaken you would want to take the shakes away. Hence lays the problem of religious conflict.

One does need a comforting place a stable zone or something when everything seems new/unstable/uncertain it helps to get through it i don't think though that religion should be it tho.
(this maybe only if you don't have a strong will yet, never give up thing)

strange that preachers tends to say "one should get out of your comfort zone and do something" what is it in truth ? getting out of religion, opening your mind wanting to look at those "you may not this or that" for really why - wanting to change...

change isn't taught be easy but it is - its when you locked into a comfort zones, safety blanket that its hard to get out of it - take the step into the unknown ! (learning to trust your inner voice)

there is definitely no such thing as "I am this way and cant change it" - that speaks of total robotization - one of things that religion tends to do.

lol not sure if this makes sense at all but what i pondered so far....

Blessings,
Ryu[/code]
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MisterJingo
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« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2006, 11:51:40 »

Quote from: no_leaf_clover
I don't think there's anything to religion that you can't give yourself from your own personal philosophy or spirituality. And what's more is that that would help cut down on all the fear and ignorance and war resulting from masses of people believing the same tired things zealously.


The difference between your own personal philosophy or spirituality and religion is simply numbers. Follow your own path, or follow a groups path. Both are based upon the desire to follow something.
 Unless we can truthfully say we follow nothing, or hold no beliefs or preconceptions, then we have the answer to 'why is there a need for religion'.

How many people here wouldn't or haven't defended personal beliefs against the skeptism of others? How many here would truely be willing to drop core beliefs from a conversation with another?
 Why should those who follow a belief as a group be different?
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Ryuji
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« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2006, 21:19:05 »

James S

Quote

We are here for open minded people who are searching for their OWN truths, not for people who have become mentally enslaved by some religion and feel it their duty to tell everyone that their religion is the only right one and everyone else is wrong


 wink

Ryu
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ubiquitous
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« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2006, 21:37:33 »

Religion has given us some great cathedrals church's e.c.t in the past it brought people together these days it has just pulled people apart its had its day technology will probe further and deeper and a future fine scripture of indispensable truth will be the order of the day, just hope the author is a nice chap!.
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Jimi
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« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2006, 06:48:30 »

Religion is not the problem. People are.
So the question should be...do we really need people? There would be no more stealing, rape, murder, hate, etc.
I'm very serious.
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James S
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« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2006, 03:50:08 »

Ok Jimi, fair enough, but think about this....

What is it about people that makes them steal, rape, murder & hate?

BELIEFS!!!

Beliefs are at the very core of all our thoughts, actions and behaviours.
Everything we think, say or do is influenced by what we believe.

So with that in mind, think about what religions have done for people's beliefs.

Blseeings,
James.
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Mustardseed
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« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2006, 03:54:55 »

Like the Americans says "Guns don't kill people , people kill people"
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Mustardseed
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« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2006, 04:02:54 »

Quote from: James S
Ok Jimi, fair enough, but think about this....

What is it about people that makes them steal, rape, murder & hate?

BELIEFS!!!

Beliefs are at the very core of all our thoughts, actions and behaviours.
Everything we think, say or do is influenced by what we believe.

So with that in mind, think about what religions have done for people's beliefs.

Blseeings,
James.


Hi James,

I thought a lot about whether to answer you and decided to do so. I find your statement very problematic and one sided, and not at all in line with your normal well thought out arguments.  smiley

If Religion causes rape murder and hate, then logically speaking there should be no Mother Theresa's in the world, every religious person would be a monster. This statement and the implications is erroneous.

Pride, greed and ego is what causes these things, not religion. When you state things like that you come across as biased, and though I understand your view on organized religion, yet still........ your statements are wrong

Regards Mustardseed
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« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2006, 19:49:38 »

Maybe (just a suggestion) we should differentiate the meanings of belief and faith.  I would say that a Mother Theresa has faith, but religious fanatics do evil deeds because of beliefs.  Religion is a forum for both.
Just a thought.  Y'all carry it to it's conclusion- at the moment I need a nap.  smiley
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Mustardseed
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« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2006, 03:24:55 »

Fanatics are the same the world over, Religious political, or humanist. The religion is the sheath not the knife
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gdo
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« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2006, 03:18:29 »

Religion is cultural.  There will always be some people who rationalize their actions by using cultural or religious concepts to full fill personal goals as a result of a lack of understanding the world that we live in.

Some persons will only see the reflection of the problems of the world as something that is OUTSIDE of themselves and not realize that the problems are INTERNALLY their problem.  It has always been such.

To thine own self be true (the Inner SELF) .  Know thyself.  Look within.  
Sometimes religion is like the body of a car.  It can become corroded  but still runs and serves a purpose.  Or, perhaps like the cover and binding of a book.  The contents are still there to be READ but the outside is ugly and rotted.
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James S
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« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2006, 01:37:07 »

I agree Mustardseed that there is a great deal of generalisation with repesct to religion, but nonetheless, religions are the most effective vehicle through which belief systems are brought to people.

Not only belief systems, but laws around the world are based on religious doctrines.  Even moral codes are based on religious doctrines.

I do believe there is enough evidence around us to show how religions have shaped our beliefs, and therefore shaped out thoughts and actions.

Mother Theresa would still have been a great humanitarian no matter what religion she belonged to, simply becuase of the kind of person she was.

Out of every system can come an individual that shines, not by the making of that system, but by their own making.

Blessings,
James.
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Mustardseed
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« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2006, 19:08:06 »

With the greatest respect James in my opinion your faith is no different. Maybe YOU would not kill for it (I hope not) neither would I for mine yet there might be others who would, heavens gate etc comes to mind. You are not exempt from religion, you as all others have a beliefsystem that you adhere to and some guy might take that beliefsystem and kill for it

Regards Mustardseed
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James S
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« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2006, 09:05:07 »

I'd certainly hope no one would kill for my belief system.
If they did, then they would be working completely contrary to the philosophies of "oneness" that I believe in.
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Mustardseed
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« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2006, 11:44:09 »

I'd certainly hope no one would kill for my belief system.
If they did, then they would be working completely contrary to the philosophies of "oneness" that I believe in.

Yea know how you feel. Some took my beliefsystem many centuries ago and started doing just what you fear and folks have been at it since, contrary to its tenants which are strictly nonviolent. It is so sad and a big problem because ever since, we who believe in it have been seen as warmongers and the like, and the true oneness of my faith seems to be ignored, in the light (or darkness) of the great evil that has been committed in its name.

Regards Mustardseed
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« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2006, 17:35:26 »

Religion isn't an isolated world inside ourselves. It breathes, it lives, and most importantly it interacts. We aren't on own here, there are others among us. We can't be so selfish as to think that we as men can just create and think up religion in our minds. If so than all of us our gods and we all have our own unique religion inside of us. This statement brings the question why do we even live with each other, why do we even bother with each other, if we all are just tiny pockets of religion that are completely unrelated to each others and are in no way governed by each others tiny pocket. I am not saying that religion isn't inside of us, I am saying it lives within us from an outside source. Without this outside source (which is religion) how do we live? Without this outer source we are dead, we are lacking, we can't interact with anyone outside us in any sort of a way that is spiritual, we are spiritually dead. What I really want to say is religion isn't something about us an individuals, but rather our interaction, our relationship with that outside source, therefore you can spiritually have a relationship with others that have a relationship with the outside source. Religion is an interacting web of the outer source to all the inner sources, but most importantly to the outer source.
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