Is the bible to be taken literally.

[Volvonerd]

I think no.

Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a radio personality who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that, "In the Old Testament, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned under any circumstance." The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by an east coast resident, which was posted on the Internet. It's funny, as well as informative

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. Now when someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them:

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is; how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted fan,
Jim

Spell check had fun with the original message.

[Jelal67]

Ah, the literalists... gotta love them.  Nothing like a bit of cold sarcasm to set them straight, lol....

[DH]

Jesus says if your eye causes you to sin, rip it out; if your hand causes you to sin, whack it off -- but I haven't seen any one-eyed, one-handed literalists that I know of.   

Some get literal only when it's convenient for their value system.  The same verses that say stone homosexuals also say to stone adulterers and children who dis their parents -- but we don't hear anything about that.

DH

[Mattimo]

This kind of information is always amusing.  DH, you are completely correct with regards to "[being] literal only when it's convenient for [one's] value system."  With regard to homosexuality, using the bible to slander someone based on this, is nothing more than a justification for one's own phobias or insecurities. 

You know, I think the comfort of so-called heaven often motivates people to be Christian - and certain Christian's consider themselves so, on the basis of this belief; nonetheless, they often sin daily.  In my opinion such people are not Christian.

[DH]

You know, I think the comfort of so-called heaven often motivates people to be Christian - and certain Christian's consider themselves so, on the basis of this belief; nonetheless, they often sin daily.  In my opinion such people are not Christian.

Yes, the reward of heaven motivates people to call themselves "Christian".  But so many either ignore or are ignorant of what the New Testament writers say about what it means to be a "Christian" (which if one wants to get literal, means "little Christ").  I don't see a lot of "little Christs" running around!

If you read what the NT says about Jesus, and quotes him as saying, anyone who wants to be his disciple or follower must first and foremost be a servant -- one who loves and cares for others unconditionally.  One is expected to repent of sin (selfcenteredness) and follow him on the path of self-giving love.

The theology of Paul shapes a lot of Christian doctrine.  But a lot of "Christians" don't get or ignore what he said. If you read what he says about what it means to be a "Christian" --  it has to do with accepting Jesus as the atonement for sin, committing to Jesus as the Lord (being obedient to his teachings), receiving the Holy Spirit (God's personal presence in Jewish thinking), and allowing the Spirit to transform the believer into the image of Christ. 

Paul had a lot of personal hangups, and they come out his letters.  And one can disagree with his theory of atonement or concept of God; but his teaching is pretty clear for those who want to be called "Christians".  In Paul's thinking there no such thing as a "white washed Christian" -- one who claims salvation in Jesus but lives like the devil!  Romans 8 and Galatians 5 make that pretty clear:  One who claims the name of "Christian" is one who is on a pathway to become like Jesus.  A "saved" person lives like a "saved" person.

Pardon my rant, but I come from a Christian background, and I get sick and tired of "Christians" who are anything but Christ-like: judgmental, cold-hearted, violent, greedy, etc., etc., etc.

By the way, if you read the gospels, you'll see that Jesus had compassion for "sinners"  -- the outcasts and screw ups.  His only threats and harsh words were reserved for the self-righteous religious people,as in Matthew 23.

DH

[Mattimo]

Good post DH, I appreciate your like-minded insights.  In continuing with the subject, what amuses me most is that in the first thirty pages of the New Testament one is able to read numerous supposed quotes from Jesus which directly contradict what some Christians/branches of Christianity believe.  For example, Jesus tells us to pray in one's closet and not in the street or in Churches, on the basis that those that do pray in public do so partly for the sake of being perceived as devout, by others.  Moreover, in the New Testament, praying is akin to meditation and not attempting to commune with "God" literally with one's little ego-voice.  Also, Heaven is not conceived of by Jesus as being in the hereafter.  It is apparent to me that the Heaven Jesus refers to is the same as the eternal-now, perceived thusly through being egoless.  If Heaven was in the hereafter, why would Jesus say "seek first the kingdom of heaven within and all will be added unto you." ?   

And what does Jesus have to say about Sin?  Jesus says that one does not have to commit a sinful external act to be a sinner; one has only to think a sinful thought.  Moreover, when Jesus cures people afflicted with illnesses he (paraphrase) "forgives them for their sins."  Thus, one can deduce that illnesses are not "God's" plan per se as some "faithful" people may believe.  Illness may arise directly due to one's actions/sins; cause and effect; karma.  This sin/karma to which I am referring almost entirely originates from within one's mind.  One must understand this, to see that sinful external actions are merely a manifestation of sinful thinking.   

Again, this is directly derived from the first 30 pages of the New Testament.  And I could go on and on... 
 

[Mydral]

DH... I am not a Christian man but I had to listen to a priest once.. and he gave a pretty good message:

Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself

Most Christians do this: "Thou shalt love thy neighbour" and forget the last part.

So here is the thing, if you love others unconditionally and just do that its not what Jesus intended. You need some self-centerdness to love yourself. If you don't you might do anything others tell you to do (I dont mean crimes or so, just like getting up and bringing them food, lending them money, things like that).... this does not make you feel good... it makes you feel used, hence you do not love yourself.
Life is always about balance between two forces.... hence balance this too. If you just do one of these two things you will fail so to say.

[Jelal67]

I feel that all religions are essentially the same, and that the manipulations of man corrupt them and set them against each other. As long as we live a good, dedicated life, full of compassion for ourselves and others, everything works out in the end...

[DH]

DH... I am not a Christian man but I had to listen to a priest once..

Sounds painful!   

and he gave a pretty good message: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself
Most Christians do this: "Thou shalt love thy neighbour" and forget the last part.
So here is the thing, if you love others unconditionally and just do that its not what Jesus intended. You need some self-centerdness to love yourself. If you don't you might do anything others tell you to do (I dont mean crimes or so, just like getting up and bringing them food, lending them money,things like that).... this does not make you feel good... it makes you feel used, hence you do not love yourself.
Life is always about balance between two forces.... hence balance this too. If you just do one of these two things you will fail so to say.

Yes, you are right on.  There has to be balance. 

Unless you have a good self-image -- that you are a child of God -- that all of the good of the Universe lives in you by God's Spirit -- then you have nothing to offer others.  You have to take care of yourself spiritually, emotionally, physically, etc. 

But I think that's different than a fundamental self-centeredness that says, "Screw everyone else, I will do what I want."  This is what the NT would equate with "demonic".  Jesus talked about a kind of love  -- AGAPE in the NT Greek -- that has to do with choosing to set the self aside at certain moments to care for someone else.  This is a concept that is also found in other world religions, such as Hinduism, Buddhism, and in Greek philosophy. 

Only one who is truly secure in herself (and her place in God) can give herself away.  You can't out give God.  Ironically, whatever you give freely comes back in some way.  This is a biblical principle (Luke 6:37, 2 Corinthians 9).  People that are basically self-centered never learn that.  Their focus is usually on their immediate gratification, and what comes back to them is an echo of their greed, lust, violence or whatever.  The Bible has its own version of Karma!

Yes, balance.   DH

[DH]

Jesus tells us to pray in one's closet and not in the street or in Churches, on the basis that those that do pray in public do so partly for the sake of being perceived as devout, by others.  Moreover, in the New Testament, praying is akin to meditation and not attempting to commune with "God" literally with one's little ego-voice.  Also, Heaven is not conceived of by Jesus as being in the hereafter.  It is apparent to me that the Heaven Jesus refers to is the same as the eternal-now, perceived thusly through being egoless.  If Heaven was in the hereafter, why would Jesus say "seek first the kingdom of heaven within and all will be added unto you." ?   

Mattimo, thanks for the response. 

The New Testament shows that Jesus got really ticked off at hypocrites (and they were the "religious" people trying to look good in public).  He didn't discourage public prayer, but only those who were using public prayer to look pious.  There were times when he was recorded as  praying publicly (John 11).  At the same time, you make a good point that Jesus was a meditator.  The "prayer closet" verse you mention may point to that.  But what is even more convincing to me are passages such as Luke 6:12 through chapter 7, where Jesus goes up on a mountain to pray "all night" -- and then comes down and picks his 12 disciples, preaches a sermon that gives  his basic message, and heals some people. 

Think about it.  How do you "pray all night" unless you are meditating?  Otherwise, you run out of words real quick!  I think he was getting inner direction from "his Father" who told him which disciples to select as his inner circle, and also received the inner wisdom to preach the sermon, and the power to heal people.

And what does Jesus have to say about Sin?  Jesus says that one does not have to commit a sinful external act to be a sinner; one has only to think a sinful thought.  Moreover, when Jesus cures people afflicted with illnesses he (paraphrase) "forgives them for their sins."  Thus, one can deduce that illnesses are not "God's" plan per se as some "faithful" people may believe.  Illness may arise directly due to one's actions/sins; cause and effect; karma.  This sin/karma to which I am referring almost entirely originates from within one's mind.  One must understand this, to see that sinful external actions are merely a manifestation of sinful thinking.   

I agree, it all starts in the mind, and Jesus affirmed that.  He also says, "Whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have receive it, and it will be yours."  Mark 11:24.  It doesn't get more mental than that! 

DH

[andonitxo]

I found this link in another forum: http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

[Mydral]

I found this link in another forum: http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

That link is permanent in my MSN messenger signature haha

[kailaurius]

I found this link in another forum: http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

I just watched that video yesterday for the first time.  It was very interesting.  I might watch it again whenever I have the time.  I usually don't have 2 hours to spare, but once I started watching it yesterday I couldn't stop, lol.  How did you guys feel about the movie?  I'm not sure what to think about it at the moment, which is why I would like to watch it again.  I'm usually very open minded, but at the same time I'm usually in control or at least I try to stay in control of my belief system as much as I can.  Sometimes it can be challenging to maintain control of my beliefs with the constant bombardment of the media, but a fun challenge none the less.  Anyway, before I get off on a tangent like I tend to do sometimes, I would need to ponder the information from this movie a bit and rely on myself or higher self for what I would perceive to be the truth before I came to any conclusions or opinions.  The movie sure seems to put things in perspective and really gets you thinking.  A lot of the information in the video seems to make logical sense.  One thing I always keep in mind is that even if these governments, corporations, organizations, etc. exist to conspire, abuse, and take advantage of humanity for their own personal selfish gain of money and power there are still people who work and control these organizations that are spiritual beings like everyone else who are on the same path with the same ultimate goal that we all have.

Here is what I currently believe will happen to these perceived conspirators.  These organizations operate in an old energy from an old Earth with lower vibrations.  These old energies are struggling to survive in a new Earth with energies that are vibrating at a higher rate that have been and continues to increase as more and more people become enlightened and awakened.  As more people continue to deposit more love and positive energy into the Earth the vibration of the Earth continues to increase.  Eventually these old energies will not be able to survive and will be extinguished from the Earth like early morning fog that disappears as the sun rises toward noon.  It has been mentioned that events like 911 will be the catalyst that will help push the shift in consciousness to a new awareness, a new reality, a new age.  I believe that is true.  Hehe, it's even been said on other websites that whether George Bush is seen as good or bad in the future he will be seen as the catalyst who brought change that eventually led to peace in the middle east.  I personally find that challenging to believe at the moment, but you never know.  He certainly seems to be the one who stuck a stick in an ant bed and stirred it up real good, hehe.  As Adrian has mentioned in his book the entire universe works in perfect harmony without exception.  If it didn't it would collapse in on itself in an instant.  I believe all the perceived horrors and atrocities that seem to occur on almost a daily basis will eventually balance itself out.

Anyway, again I thought the video was pretty interesting.  I hope that other people who see this video will become aware that they are and have always been in complete control of their own reality and not the government or any organization for that matter.  A bit of warning to anyone who hasn't seen the video yet, there is a little bit of vulgar language in some of the clips, but not much.

[andonitxo]

These organizations operate in an old energy from an old Earth with lower vibrations.  These old energies are struggling to survive in a new Earth with energies that are vibrating at a higher rate that have been and continues to increase as more and more people become enlightened and awakened.  As more people continue to deposit more love and positive energy into the Earth the vibration of the Earth continues to increase.  Eventually these old energies will not be able to survive and will be extinguished from the Earth like early morning fog that disappears as the sun rises toward noon. 

You've hit the nail in its head, dude.

The astronomy/astrology part of the video is superb. The explanations are so clear and direct, that it's quite impossible not to understand it.

Anyway, and I'm not Christian, I believe that all the avatars have existed. I mean, it's true that there's a confluence of astronomical signs, but I've always thought that every planet movement must solidify its influence on Earth. So: Christ, Buddha, and so, for sure, came to Earth with their new vibrational auras in order to teach humankind.

The problem is not on the avatars, but in the egoistic interpretation that fearful humans do from their teachings.

[malganis]

I read a great article about the process of change. http://www.centerpointe.com/newsletter/archives.php (June2007 - I Love Chaos)

First is order, then chaos and then order on the higher level and that is how the process of change works everywhere in nature. So, if 2012 is going to bring a new harmonius reality there will be a lot of chaos in years to come. My guessing.

[Mez]

I used to be atheist because nothing used to make sense and there was no way christianity and the bible was at all viable... astral projection taught me there was more to existance than i had been acknowledging but it was the exact answer i had been searching for and because of it i now lead an extremely spiritual life...

i've heard so many priests, preachers and christians call the bible "The word of god" but really it was written by man infact it was written by men who met men who met jesus. This just doesnt cut it for me but I do acknoledge that there are MANY great spiritual truths in the bible its just too muddled up with stories and contradictions so i take it for what it is... a book of events and stories written by men who met men who met jesus. I guess in a court of law the bible would be considered hearsay? (but thats just an observation/thought and holds no weight in this debate)

people usually take all their beliefs from one source and regard it as the absolute truth... in my opinion thats just silly! God had many incarnations on earth... buddha, Krishna, Christ (theres more) but he incarnated many times to teach as much as possible... so in my opinion it pays to look at all sources and find the correlations between them before you make up your mind exactly what to believe and how to live.

[melody]

You might find it interesting to watch videos I just posted in the Welcome to News and Media section called "The Origin of Some Biblical Teachings".

[gdo]

Why would anyone take Dr laura seriously?

[Awakened_Mind]

To the original quesiton. I would say no.

-AM