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Author Topic: Jesus  (Read 8085 times)
beavis
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« on: December 13, 2003, 22:57:41 »

Why do you care if other people think you are a "christian" ? Believe what you think is most likely true.
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« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2003, 01:19:47 »

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it.  Do not believe in traditions becuase they have been handed down for many generations.  Do not believe anything because it is spoken or rumored by many.  Do not believe anything because it is written in your religious books.   Do not beleive in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.  But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conductive to the good and the benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."  -Buddha
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« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2003, 01:19:47 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

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Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2003, 03:03:53 »

Basically you can call yourself anything you want. It seems to be a matter of defining what a Christian is. If you would use the definition of a Christian as : a person who believes that Jesus was born lived and gave his life as a sacrefice for you.

Are you then a Christian .....no.

If your definition is a person who goes to church and keeps church rules ........maybe (I dont know you)


If your definition matches your action then it is affirmative. However the definition by the vast majority is the first and then you would have to decide what you believe[Smiley].

Regards Mustardseed
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« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2003, 06:46:33 »

Well technically you are Christian if you believe in Christ, but that probably wouldn't be your denomonation.  Jews believe in Christ, just that He hasn't come yet, so pretty much the new testament is void to them.  There are many sources for learning.  God did not send us here with no resources to discover the truth.  But spiritual knowledge is always a very personal thing.  If you seek for the truth, the truth will find you when you are prepared to accept it.  Untill then, keep searching!
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« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2003, 20:53:35 »

Not entirely correct or....... Well how about we define believe. Tecnically as you call it the greek word translated into believe is Pisteou = to drink in. In other words to recieve (the truth that Jesus is the son of God). There are several scriptures indicating that believing has to be defined. It says "the devils also believe and they tremble" I do not think we can class demons as Christians though. One thing you can be sure of is that it has nothing to do with the physical, such as keeping church laws going to mass church deeds of goodness etc etc it has to do with your spirit and how you relate to Jesus as you know Him.

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« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2003, 20:53:35 »



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« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2003, 03:39:07 »

Muslims believe that Jesus is the Messiah, but Muslims are not considered Christians because they do not believe that he is the 'Son of God' and they do not believe he died for our sins.

So i guess that in order to be considered a Christian by most 'Christian scholars' you would have to believe that he died for your sins and that he is the begotten 'Son of God'.

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« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2004, 02:36:51 »

Yes it would seem so.
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« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2004, 03:42:27 »

With all due respect to Buddha ... to present a quote like that is a little misleading, imo, because it's out of the larger context (just like taking a verse from the bible to make some point). If we follow that logic to the extreme, we have no "economy" of knowlege, i.e., we can never build upon what others have learned because we are continually reinventing the wheel.

He does not say "don't believe anything that others say or what has been passed down or what is written in religious books." He is saying, listen, learn, gather the info, take others experience onto consideration, then find your own way - a balanced approach should be used. Keep what is useful and what resonates with your personality, discard that which does not move you forward.

The accumulated wealth of experience that has been written down and reflected on through the centuries has great value and merit. Reading and contemplating what others have learned through collective experience can be extraordinarily enlightening and stimulating. But one must take it and use it as a springboard into their own experience and discovery!

Regarding your question:
A "Christian" is one who follows or belongs to Christ. This means that a Christian is one who seeks to know the teachings of Christ and who seeks to know the person of Christ. His teachings can be knows through 1) the recorded words in the Gospels 2) the reflections on his teachings by his earliest and closest followers, the apostles, contained in the other letters of the New Testament, and 3) through the various Christian churches (especially, imo, those that have an unbroken succession of teaching and reflection passed down from the apostles to their successors, ie, the Roman Catholic church, the various Othodox churches.)

He can be know in his person through 1) prayer - start talking to him and ask him to reveal himself to you in a personal way, then listen and try to be aware of how he might be trying to do so, and 2) through your fellow human beings, especially other Christians who seem to have a deep peace and warmth radiating from them.

If you truly seek to know him, he will clarify these other issues for you as you learn to communicate with him and open yourself to his tender love and compassion.

Good luck and God's blessing in your journey!
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« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2004, 17:28:37 »

Shedt,

quote:
I was wondering, what if you don't believe Jesus died on the cross, and you don't believe that the teachings in the bible are the teachings that Jesus really taught, would you be a christian ? or are you only a christian if you believe his is "christ"

Must you believe that only he can save you ?

i'm just curious, i'd like too sort out my own beliefs


I have had similar questions.  I do not feel that Jesus ever intended on creating a new religion through his teachings and in fact, I beleive that Jesus meant for us to find God within.  Christ refers to the lineage of the house of David; David and Joseph were also Christs.  I do not believe that Jesus died for our sins... I believe the message of the resurrection was that there is no death and I believe that the word "sin" as it is commonly used today is an improper use of the original meaning.  It originally meant to miss the mark and is an archery term translated from the greek word, 'hamartia.'  In other words, it is a mistake, not to be used by the church as some condemnation to be lorded over ones soul for all of eternity which would exclude one from being accepted into 'heaven" or something that would exclude a person from experiencing the Love of God.  In fact, the word "repent" is derived from the greek word "metanoeo," which means to change ones mind, a little different from the meaning most of us attribute to the word (pleading forgiveness.)

I also believe that Jesus still lives on today and the ancient texts are not the only outlet we have to his teachings.  I am a student of A Course in Miracles and believe these to be a more modern, accurate account and an attempt to correct the mistakes the church has made regarding the distortions of the teachings of Jesus Christ.  In fact, there are many blatant corrections within the course where there is an explanation or a clarification of mistakes within the bible as it is translated and understood today.  In many ways, I consider myself a Christian (follower of the teachings of Jesus Christ,) however, I have had many debates with my husband because I believe that to live according to the "teachings" of Jesus, that makes one a Christian.  My husband would argue that only one who regularly attends church and lives according to the dictates of the church (any church) would be considered a Christian since Jesus never intended to start a new religion and the term Christian is a term that the church created.  

I believe God lives within all of us and Jesus was a teacher who came to teach us how to understand our true selves, our Divinity.  It is also my belief that he knew who he was (That he was a Divine being)and through his teachings, was showing us that there was no difference between him and us.  We have only forgotten our true nature, or divinity, where he never did.


--Kerri
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« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2004, 18:07:52 »

thanks for the replys. I've read and heard of different things about Jesus. maybe if I have a OBE i could travel in time or something LOL.

I'd really love too hear what his message was. there seems too be so many people who are very very sure of what they think he said. but you never really know now do you ?
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« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2004, 22:26:41 »

quote:
Originally posted by shedt

I was wondering, what if you don't believe Jesus died on the cross, and you don't believe that the teachings in the bible are the teachings that Jesus really taught, would you be a christian ? or are you only a christian if you believe his is "christ"

Must you believe that only he can save you ?

i'm just curious, i'd like too sort out my own beliefs



I believe in it because of that and other thigs. With out Jesus I think our religion would be "inferior".
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« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2004, 02:10:45 »

quote:
I was wondering, what if you don't believe Jesus died on the cross, and you don't believe that the teachings in the bible are the teachings that Jesus really taught, would you be a christian ? or are you only a christian if you believe his is "christ"?


A Christian is someone who firstly accepts Christ as Lord and Savior and believes he died and rose for their sins (Rom. 10:9). But even more than that, someone who, in being changed by this belief, follows the teachings in the Bible. So the answer to your first question is no.

Not too sure what you are asking with that second question.

quote:
Must you believe that only he can save you ?



Yes. Jesus said so himself.

Lighthouse,

 
quote:
My husband would argue that only one who regularly attends church and lives according to the dictates of the church (any church) would be considered a Christian since Jesus never intended to start a new religion and the term Christian is a term that the church created.



Going to church doesn't make anyone a Christian anymore than going to McDonald's makes one a hamburger. Also, the term "Christian" was not created by the church at all, it was in fact a derogatory term used by unbelievers which believers eventually adopted.

As for Jesus never intending to start a new religion: why did he say so many times to follow him? To "deny ourselves and take up our cross daily?" To believe and follow what he taught?

 
quote:
I believe God lives within all of us and Jesus was a teacher who came to teach us how to understand our true selves, our Divinity.


First, even Jesus said that only those who believe in him (see Rom. 10:9) will have the Father (or, God, if you prefer). Second, to say that Jesus was a teacher is to call him a liar, or a lunatic, since he himself claimed to be God. It also completely misses the whole message of the NT and the reason he came to earth. Third, we have no divinity.

There is much more I could say in regards to your post, but I'll hold it that, for now.
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« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2004, 05:19:32 »

No need to put a label on what you believe about Christ.  Think about it, meditate on it, and pray about it.  If you are confused or doubtful, just keep asking.  As Socrates stated, "True wisdom comes from the knowledge of ignorance".  Realize that you cannot find the answer, the answer will find you.  You'll know what is true to you by what brings you peace.  When you are satisfied with an answer, that will be the answer you have been seeking.  God is beyond physicality, He does not need to use it to manifest His will.  He does not make Himself known to you by your ears or your eyes, that is mans expectations of reality.  God speaks through your heart and mind!  Spirituality or non-spirituality is always a personal and individual thing.  You will notice that even christians have different views of their own about what is true.  Be open minded and let the inner voice, not the outer ones, guide you to your answers.
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« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2004, 12:26:49 »

Exothen,

I suggest you read Matthew 15:9 also 1 Corinthians 1:18-21.

--Kerri

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« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2004, 12:45:46 »

Exothen,

I meerly see things a little differently than you and was offering my insight to one who asked the question... no reason to get bent out of shape or up on your self righteous high horse.  I have spent years developing my own personal belief and relationship with Jesus and am comfortable with that relationship.  If something I have said makes you uneasy, you need to explore why you feel my post has attacked the core of your belief system.  I live according to the dictates of my heart which is what I believe Jesus was teaching me.  I do not need a church or anyone else to tell me how to do that.  Jesus works and speaks through me and helps me in my work.  I certainly believe in the teachings of Christ and that he was a being who knew he was God.  You too are God, which to me is the basis for all of Jesus' teachings however, you believe in superiority and inferiority, in God, there is no such thing.  Until you understand that you too are a child of God, (one with God) you will feel that the thoughts I express are blastphemous to your view.  


--Kerri
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« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2004, 15:38:57 »

TheAlphaOmega,

 
quote:
Spirituality or non-spirituality is always a personal and individual thing.


The Bible says that Christians are to be salt and light to the world. It says to let our light shine instead of hiding it. The early Christians were severely persecuted for their beliefs. Becoming a Christian is certainly a personal decision, but living the Christian life and having a set of beliefs about Christ are most certainly not individual things.

Lighthouse,

What was your point with those scriptures?

 
quote:
I meerly see things a little differently than you and was offering my insight to one who asked the question... no reason to get bent out of shape or up on your self righteous high horse.


To say that we see things a "little differently" is a huge understatement. We see things very differently. Whatever reason do you have for your thinking in that last sentence? I am merely defending Christ and Christianity according to what scripture says about them.

 
quote:
If something I have said makes you uneasy, you need to explore why you feel my post has attacked the core of your belief system.


It has "attacked" the core of my belief system because it has attacked the core of Christianity.

 
quote:
I live according to the dictates of my heart which is what I believe Jesus was teaching me.


No, Jesus didn't teach that. He clearly taught to live according to what he was teaching. Many people stopped following Christ for this reason; they wanted to live according to their own belief system.

 
quote:
I certainly believe in the teachings of Christ and that he was a being who knew he was God. You too are God, which to me is the basis for all of Jesus' teachings


He didn't "know that he was God" in the that he was enlightened. The Bible is crystal clear that Jesus was God in the flesh. The Bible is also crystal clear that we are not gods, nor will we ever be. We are beings created in God's image, but certainly not gods. To say that we are gods goes completely against Jesus's teachings.

 
quote:
Until you understand that you too are a child of God, (one with God) you will feel that the thoughts I express are blastphemous to your view.


I know that I am a child of God, in the full biblical sense (John 1:12; Rom. 8:12-17). Being "one with God" is a totally foreign concept to the Bible and is a result of New Age belief.
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« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2004, 16:32:43 »

Exothen,
quote:

The Bible is crystal clear that Jesus was God in the flesh.


As are you.

God is ALL, the I AM.  I suggest you look a little more deeply into the meaning of the message of the sermon on the mount.  The beattitudes have a clear message of what I am speaking of if you can look outside of your box.  It is in the understanding of your divinity and the correction of your own misperceptions about yourself (and your fellow humans) that you will be saved... My thoughts and message in no way go against the teachings of Christ.  Perhaps they go against what you have been taught, however, that does not mean that they are wrong or in conflict with his teachings.  If you think I can possibly attack God or the truth, I think you need to do some self examination on your own beliefs.  Do you really think I can attack the TRUTH???  Isn't only God and Love truth??  Stop listening to what your church higherarchy is telling you and ask your heart and mind (where God resides) what the truth is... it will set you free.  My way of expressing the way I see Christs teachings are merely different than what you believe.  

As far as my references to those scriptures, look at what you just posted then look at what I suggested you read then you tell me what the reasoning was in my writing that remark to you.  Better yet, ask your heart what I meant and write down the answer you get, then you will see the correlation.

There is no prerequisite that one lives in a certain way, according to anothers dictates to know God and Christ.  You do not need someone else to open your doorway to God, God is your birthright, dwells within your being and you should recognize that through Christs teachings.

--Kerri
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« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2004, 01:43:57 »

exothen, do you read Hebrew or Greek ?
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« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2004, 21:23:31 »

I'm not sure why some say to seek God by looking within, we are all god, etc....that is the lie of the devil.

We have an "owners manual"....it is the Bible....we are NOT supposed to do what seems right, feels good within, etc....if it contradicts the Bible.  The Lord knew we would do this, and that's why He gave us the written word.

We have a built in programming to want to be as God, equal to, etc. etc. from our sinful nature.

The moslems and some other non-christian groups recognize Jesus as a prophet of God, (one of a line of prophets) but not as God.  Jesus said He was God in flesh....that's why the Jews, working out God's plan, had Him crucified.  He was either God, or a liar, but never just another prophet.
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« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2004, 22:21:50 »

Lighthouse,

No, I am not God in the flesh and neither are you or anyone else. To say so is absolutely blasphemous. Not only that, it just isn't rational, at all.

 
quote:
God is ALL, the I AM.


Being all and I AM are not the same thing. "I AM" comes from the verb "to be" and so speaks of his eternality. Please show in scripture where it is stated that God is all.

 
quote:
It is in the understanding of your divinity and the correction of your own misperceptions about yourself (and your fellow humans) that you will be saved...My thoughts and message in no way go against the teachings of Christ.


This is found nowhere in Scripture and goes completely against what Christ himself taught. Again, this type of thinking is from your New Age perception and interpretation of scripture, even then, I don't know how you can come up with that stuff.

 
quote:
Stop listening to what your church higherarchy is telling you


Let me guess...you are against "organized religion" and despise authority. Not that I totally blame you, but there is a reason the Church has been around for so long.

 
quote:
My way of expressing the way I see Christs teachings are merely different than what you believe.


Not "merely different," drastically different, unbiblical, heretical.

shedt,

Not yet. Why?
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« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2004, 00:31:41 »

The world according to Monty Python...

What do wood and ducks have in common?  They float.  If witches burn then they must also be made of wood, so burn her!!!      

You people make me laugh... you're right...
I must be the DEVILS SPAWN!!!! [}:)]
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« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2004, 03:07:34 »

actually, lighthouse, some of what you are saying *is* contradictory to what the bible, and what jesus, says. i'm not saying you are the devil for that, but perhaps you should reexamine your beliefs against what jesus actually did say if you want to follow him.

~kakkarot
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« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2004, 04:50:24 »

Onefromsomewhereelse... you say that you are not suppose to do what feels right, but what God tells you is right.  Your mistake is that Gods will feels right, and any other does not.  I know Hitler believed that what he was doing was right, but somehow I doubt he lived a peaceful life.  It's the peace inside that you SHOULD listen to when discovering truth, because Gods will for us IS peace.
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« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2004, 16:08:48 »

actually, to clarify my last post, everybody (myself included) should check their beliefs against what jesus said if they want to follow him.

~kakkarot
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« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2004, 13:35:47 »

Not that I totally blame you, but there is a reason the Church has been around for so long.


You're right, its called 'force'. Is it any wonder that since the enlightenment of the 18th century and especially more recently, now that the church no longer has the power to *force* people to adhere to christianity, that its numbers are falling as people are once again free to follow their own beliefs or at least be free to *think for themselves* and explore other systems? (the 17th century, esp the witch trials was the nadir for many more enlightened thinkers)

I am quite aware of why chrisitanity has been around for so long being an ancient historian myself: it got off to a good start thanks to the Romans, as once Christinity was adopted by the Roman state the entire empire was transformed into a christian theocracy, much in the same way that fundamentalist Muslim regimes are run today.
Chistianity as you recognise it today is a legacy of the Roman empire to the modern world along with government, law and other facets; all these have survived because the Greco-Roman world is the basis for western civilisation.

It quickly became THE way to rule and back up state authority.
Religion, esp christianity in our context was (and still is in some areas) a tool used for social and political purposes and for enforcement.

To say so is absolutely blasphemous.... Not "merely different," drastically different, unbiblical, heretical.

Luckily, for the rest of us, such statements are not really very scary any more.

Judging by your use of words exothen, if you were born a few hundred years ago, you would have been quite happy to burn the 'unbelievers' at the stake! I suppose, if you had your way, you would ban all other faith systems, make paganism illegal etc?? Please let me know!

I also take it that you accept every word of the bible as absolute fact, and as Jesus originally intended, with no distortion, addition, subtractions, corruptions whatsoever? Just wondering!

I am not a christian anyway, so I shoudlnt even be reading this forum, but I like to drop in occasionally to see how your all doing and to see if the usual routine of cursing the unbelievers to burn in hell (nice) is still popular, which it still is, no wonder christianity is losing poplarity!

Regards,
Douglas






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