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Author Topic: Jesus isn't the son of god  (Read 9666 times)
coben
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« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2004, 10:29:03 »

The Missionary Position - by Hitchens.

Points out a lot of problems with MOther Teresa, not just the blood money issue.

Her vibe gave me the creeps.  Anyone who thinks she is great should go off and do what she does: deny your normal humanity and be holier than all possible thous.

I can remember when I thought the idea of sacrifice and service seemed noble, but a loving god is not interested in us hurting ourselves, denying ourselves or treating us like butlers or housekeepers.

MT epitomizes the old ideas of religion where one sacrifices oneself, denies one's body, gives up ones life for others.  An idea of religion that came out of political systems that were classist, sexist, controlling and were not interested in the freedom and expressive development of humans.  THe god imagined by these religions embodied very similar demands that the nobles and slave owners demanded.  It ain't love in the physical world

and it ain't love coming from a god.

Watching her move around was like watching an insect, someone who had denied so much of what makes us human in her efforts to be holy that she felt cold and empty to me.

Not, to say the least, my cup of tea.
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kakkarot
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« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2004, 23:27:29 »

and what could all the world give you that God cannot? the world is useless and will pass away, God is eternal and all powerful and can and will give you everything you need to live and be happy.

I've never met mother teresa and have only seen a few fleeting handfuls of pictures of her, but i have seen sacrifice and caring for others. The whole
quote:
I can remember when I thought the idea of sacrifice and service seemed noble, but a loving god is not interested in us hurting ourselves, denying ourselves or treating us like butlers or housekeepers.
is misunderstanding what those sacrifices are and doesn't realize that God DOES look after His People and DOES give them good things. a sacrifice is giving up something which is important to you, possibly for the benefit of another, but that doesn't mean God cannot or will not give you something good in return for your kindness and/or devotion.

How much MORE would you be kind to someone if they lost something important to them, in order that they could good things for you?

and note that a "proper" sacrifice or kind deed is NOT done simply because the person expects to recieve said "good things" in return. a true sacrifice is something important given up without the expectation or desire of getting something in return.

~kakkarot
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« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2004, 23:27:29 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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exothen
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« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2004, 01:54:56 »

kakkarot,

 
quote:
and note that a "proper" sacrifice or kind deed is NOT done simply because the person expects to recieve said "good things" in return. a true sacrifice is something important given up without the expectation or desire of getting something in return


Very true words. As Jesus said in John 15:13, "Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends." That is true love, true sacrifice. MT layed down her life for countless others.

Perhaps this is the passage you had in mind, Luke 6:27-36:

'27 "But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,
28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 "Whoever hits you on the cheek, offer him the other also; and whoever takes away your coat, do not withhold your shirt from him either.
30 "Give to everyone who asks of you, and whoever takes away what is yours, do not demand it back.
31 "Treat others the same way you want them to treat you.
32 "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them.
33 "If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same.
34 "If you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners in order to receive back the same amount.
35 "But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men.
36 "Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful."'
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"When men cease to believe in God, they do not believe in nothing; they believe in anything." G.K. Chesterton
kakkarot
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« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2004, 17:26:05 »

i had no passage in mind. i've seen these things happen, i've done these things. i'm not talking out of a book, i'm talking out of my life.

"All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness", but reading is not the will of God. living God's word is the will of God.

~kakkarot
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coben
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« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2004, 17:53:12 »

Kakkarot,
I'm sorry, but to me that just sounds like a lot of old ideas that have kept people down spiritually for eons.
quote:
and what could all the world give you that God cannot?
The world is something wonderful that is both a part of God and something God made.  It is not something in competition with God that I must get past.


 
quote:
the world is useless and will pass away,

I have to say I am not sure why you are here, on earth.  You must experience each day as a sacrifice with this outlook.  I don't mean to be harsh and I also don't know how much you are repeating what you've read and heard and trying to get in line with and be good and how much you actually dislike the world.





 
quote:
is misunderstanding what those sacrifices are and doesn't realize that God DOES look after His People and DOES give them good things.

If your neighbor asked his or her child to sacrifice in the old christian meaning of this word to gain that parents love or to be a good person, would you truly think it was OK?  A loving parent does not demand that his or her child deny or sacrifice his or her essential nature and deny this world and live for the good afterlife.  That just ain't love, sorry.  But do what you feel is best for you.

You let me know that I will be rewarded if I sacrifice and then that I can't do it 'just' for that reason.  There is a gamelike quality.  I think the words of God have been muffled and kept distant and only these strange echoes bounce around.

The Aztecs cutting out hearts for their gods seem barbaric to us, sacrificing outside of themselves members of their own community and enemies.  God does not want that.

What is inside us, our hearts, desires, essential expression and so us...that is also not something my God wants carved out.

Of course, I would do things for loved ones and perhaps strangers and it might look like your word sacrifice.  But mother Teresa cut out her essential self, eliminated her own desires and made sacrifices of portions of herself that one - I am not willing to make because I consider it unloving toward myself, two: I doubt you are willing to make these sacrifices and perhaps consider yourself to that degree not loving and three: it is actually not what I want my loved ones to do: constrict and minimize their own desires to help me.  When help comes let it comes from an increase in the full expression of that person, not some 'giving' that is really about God or being good and comes from this idea, consciously felt or not, that god is like some Mafioso who demands that his followers hurt themselves to get his full love and trust.

Sorry that is not my path and I am not misunderstanding this.  I went underneath to the feelings and ideas that drive that kind of sacrifice and they do not come from what I call love.
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« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2004, 17:53:12 »



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kakkarot
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« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2004, 23:33:43 »

if you really want to understand what i'm trying to say, then i'll leave out the bits which seem to confuse you regarding the attitude a christian should have.

sacrifice is an act of giving up something important, usually in order to do something good for someone else.

love is doing good for others and christians should love others. we should also help others whenever we can, in the ways that those people need help (ie, don't give them a blanket if they are hungry).

a christian should do these things from their own heart, from their own desire to do good.

~kakkarot
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James S
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« Reply #31 on: May 09, 2004, 04:06:55 »

This is true. Christianity is supposed to be about seeking God, seeking Love, and letting God and love be your way of life.
This same principal is also true for many other religions.

The problems arise when people bound by the doctrines of religions become so focussed on the dogmas, the rules and regulations of their religions, that they lose sight of God, and what it is really all about.

Regards,
James.
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Tempesta
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« Reply #32 on: April 12, 2004, 08:33:59 »

This is a very interesting article that everyone should read.
http://www.rickrichards.com/Jesus.html
its a big article so i couldnt post it here.
please read the article and post what you think about it.
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MrBurgo
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« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2005, 17:52:19 »

Jesus is real & his a son of god......Believe what you will

Jesus spent alot of time in Egypt, He is called the Great white spirit in Australia by aborigines.

Apparently is known in USA ....


We are all children of god.....

Don't blame Jesus for the lies of man...

Lord Jesus Christ is one of many ascended masters........

Ascended meaning he passed all his lessons here on Earth & no longer has to incarnate.....
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