Life beyond physical Death

[patelvipulk]

Many Eastern relegion believed in life after death ( reincrnation).
There is a verty nice book by a spiritual master on the subject  titled
Life beyond Phyiscal death which can be downloaded from:
http://www.awgp.org/gamma/LiteratureEnglish

this book  is good in very good in concept.

Recently , there are a lot of reseacher taking interest in the subject after a reputed  US doctor Dr. Brain Weiss  ( www.brainweiss.com)
wrote some best sellers ( many lifes  many masters and a few more).

I would be intersted in more references on the subject.

[patelvipulk]

Thank you...

there is a book called "Journey of Souls" by Michael Newton

http://www.near-death.com/newton.html

[fliesatnite]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0684851938/sr=8-2/qid=1145634076/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-0565088-8135325?%5Fencoding=UTF8


this is a great book, a 17 year study and some really good information as well as personal accounts.

[patelvipulk]

Have  you read this book? Is it easy to read?

[Beth]

Many Eastern relegion believed in life after death ( reincrnation)subject.

I have been thinking a lot more about this topic since my Mother's death/transition and in light of all of my own metaphysical experiences.

I don't think we should just limit ideas of "life after death" to just include "reincarnation" here on this planet.

Sometimes I think that what we perceive as reincarnation "here" -- in the context of familiarity, bring drawn to a certain period of time, or even what seems to be actual "memories" -- may also have something to do with "cell memory" handed down to us from our ancestors as well.

While I certainly don't want to limit the soul's ability to take multiple trips to this planet, I also think that this just may be one of many options, and our natural tendency to limit our options to "this planet" is primarily reflective of our need for things to "be like" those things that we are already familiar with. That's a pretty "human" thing to do!

In short I guess, expanding the options of "existence" is something that I am wanting to do within myself...so, this is just something more to consider!

Anyway, if any of this makes sense to anyone else that would be great!!

~Beth

p.s. Other ideas that I am considering: When we travel in our sleep/trace states, we know we are not on the same "linear time clock" as we are on this planet (if "time" can even be understood in a different way) and so being unlimited by "time" we are able to move our awareness back and forth across the earth's historical time zone and actually "visit" other eras.  Also, within the potential of parallel worlds theory, there are "other earth's" that are similar to this one, but yet different in very striking ways. We could also "visit" these as well and come back with the impression of wanting to seriously consider reincarnation as a reason for the "memories" or "resonance" of other time periods.

Gosh! There are so many possibilities!!!

[fliesatnite]

Have you read this book? Is it easy to read?

Yes, to both of your questions. I've also read the book Runlola suggested, which is a good book to read as well.  I only recommend books that I've read personally, unless I mention otherwise.  

This book is interesting because it mentions many different stories and varied accounts from the people involved.  It is written by a self proclaimed skeptic journalist who is invited by the Dr. who, by the way is a Scientist who initially set out to DISprove reincarnation.  What he found was astounding, he and the journalist take an awesome journey.  

Beth, I understand your post and entertain some of your thoughts as well.  I don't think that any of this can be put into one neat little category.  Too many variables and too many questions to not consider other options.  Great post!

[patelvipulk]

I had a typo in the posting:
The website for Dr. Brian Weiss is

http://www.brianweiss.com/

[patelvipulk]

The book" Life Beyond Physical Death ( by a spiritual master from India, founder of www.awgp.org, www.akhand-jyoti.org and www.dsvv.org) can  read /downloaded at:

http://www.awgp.org/english/books/life_death.pdf

[fliesatnite]

Thank you for the link, I will definitely check it out.  I have read a few of Brian Weiss' books as well.  Lots of good information there also!

Thanks again!

[Doch]

As a student of Anthropology and Sociology, I have to say that any kind of fundamental belief in an afterlife is pretty much inconceivable to me right at this moment. An afterlife has to constitute a beginning of life, doesn't it? In this sense it's just as ( perhaps even more ) important for me to attempt to discern where we came from, rather than where we are headed.

Michael Cremo's Human Devolution is one of the best attempts at answering this question I've yet to see. It's certainly not without it's short -comings, though.

[CFTraveler]

Only if you don't believe in eternity.  If there is indeed eternity, then an afterlife isn't really an afterlife, but the continuation of a life that is already there, and incarnation would be just a facet of the multidimensionality of the condition of being.

PS. I studied Anthropology, Art History and Comparative Religion, (and later Electronics- a bit schizoid of me   ) and I still believe in the eternity of life. (I also don't believe in the afterlife as posited by fundamental religions, because they give life a beginning but no end and that just doesn't jibe with my notions of symmetry.)
But, as someone else has said, who am I to say?

[Beth]

As a student of Anthropology and Sociology, I have to say that any kind of fundamental belief in an afterlife is pretty much inconceivable to me right at this moment. An afterlife has to constitute a beginning of life, doesn't it? In this sense it's just as ( perhaps even more ) important for me to attempt to discern where we came from, rather than where we are headed....

Doch,

Why do you think they are mutually exclusive?
What if they are the same?
What if in your search for the "from" you also find the "to" Or--
What if it is actually easier the other way around?
Why not be open to the "to" and see what you find?

As a student of Anthropology and Sociology, I am surprised that you aren't more open to such a thing: all cultures that I am aware of have some sort of spiritual heirarchy, system or some kind of 'other-worldly' belief.  Various Shamanistic traditions from around the world are all about astral travel, spirit contact and the power of dead ancestors to affect this world for many years following their death.

Why would so many cultures, for so many millenia, from virtually every spot on this planet, believe in such a thing, if the possibility of life after death was not worthy of serious consideration?

Scientific observation and objective data collection are all very necessary, but when "people" who are studying "people" become too "objective" they totally lose the "subjective" connection with their topic of study. Which is, in essence, their "self."

~Beth

p.s. Have you studied Arnold van Genepp and Victor Turner yet? The theory of liminality is totally fascinating and can be applied to both our experiences here on earth as well being useful in comprehending our experiences in the astral...

[Doch]

I do think than a continuation of life is worthy of consideration ( especially after experiencing AP, and reading accounts of the NDE), it's just I find the concept of an afterlife to be collectively in-congruent with our notions of personal identity.  To me, our understandings of personal identity, as we currently understand them, are grounded in a physicality; where the best evidence suggests that personal identity ( not necessarily spirit or consciousness) is centered in the brain. Otherwise, what becomes of a baby who is totally unconscious of his/her self ? What about mentally handicapped people, people suffering brain damage, or Alzheimer's disease?

What I am trying to say is that to me, an afterlife implies the kind of life that our physically based consciousness permits.  From an Anthropological and Sociological perspective,  it's easy to see how the concept is represented in so much cultural diversity throughout the span of human history. If we are centering everything around a certain continuation of our identity ( and that's what all these religions, cultures, shamans are essentially doing), then shouldn't we all pull out a gun right at this moment in order to let the continuation occur whilst we have relative conscious lucidity? I, for one, am not to keen on that idea.

[Doch]

Oh, and I have studied a little bit on the work of Turner but I've yet to come across that term. I'll have to check it out.

[patelvipulk]

Please let me now if you know any good books on the subject.

[Beth]

Arnold van Gannep:

Rites of Passage
Publisher: University Of Chicago Press (July 15, 1961)
Language: English
ISBN: 0226848493


Victor Turner:

The Ritual Process
Publisher: Aldine Transaction; Reprint edition (December 31, 1995)
Language: English
ISBN: 0202011909

I just looked it up and both of these books can be purchased on Amazon.com There are also other books on this same topic, written by subsequent scholars that apply this theory to other aspects of our lives, such as the theater experinence, e.g., plays and movies (probably both the participation in and the viewing of movies and plays.)

A good example of liminality is found in the mythical stories of the "Hero's Journey."  From the moment that the "to be hero" begins his/her quest they have "stepped into liminal space." Betwixt and between their normal reality and a future reality that will reflect a drastic and undeniable change in their lives, they will encounter all kinds of strange and unusual things in order to be able "to accomplish their mission." Examples of such hero journey's are still found in modern stories and movies all the time. Some classic examples are the Wizard of Oz and Luke Skywalker in the first made of the Star Wars movies.

I like the Wizard of Oz example because Dorothy actually 'leaves Kansas' and 'goes into another realm of existence' for a time. If you have seen the old movie, the producers actually highlight this liminal space where the beginning and end of the movie were filmed in black-and-white with the 'adventure' in the middle being filmed in color, and her return to Kansas was in black-and-white again! The color parts highlight the liminal space that Dorothy was in while on her heroine journey.

~Beth

p.s. I like to think of this liminal space as being an apt description of what it is like for us to travel in the astral...

[Doch]

I found a fairly helpful link.

It's mainly concerned with ghosts though.

http://www.tricksterbook.com/ArticlesOnline/GhostsAndLiminality.html

[Ryuji]

life after death is....


MIDDLE EARTH

blessings,

Ryu

:yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:

[patelvipulk]

Plese bare with my ignorance. What doesMIDDLE EARTH  means?


MIDDLE EARTH

blessings,

Ryu

:yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:  :yikes2:[/quote]

[CFTraveler]

patelvipuvik:  Have you ever heard of The Lord of the Rings? By Tolkien? If you haven't- it's a cool read, for those who like fantasy fiction.

[ubiquitous]

ficticious fantasy, when your dead your dead

[patelvipulk]

In the Easter belief system, ther is a concept of Physical, subtle and astal bodies and they beilive that the later two bodies goes to the physical body of hte next life in the form of seeds. And that is why a child is born with  a specific state of mind with differrnt habbits and fears.

I have heard that most western relegions beleive in soul waiting for hte judgement day and not taking up another body and that everyone is born a sinner.  Please pardon my ignorance as I have not studied Wastern relegions.  but I have a question? , Are everyone born with the same level of sins?  ( please do not get offended, I just want to know  out of curiopcity rahter than trying to disapprove someones relegious beleif.  I apologize in advance if I  am offending anyone).

I do think than a continuation of life is worthy of consideration ( especially after experiencing AP, and reading accounts of the NDE), it's just I find the concept of an afterlife to be collectively in-congruent with our notions of personal identity.  To me, our understandings of personal identity, as we currently understand them, are grounded in a physicality; where the best evidence suggests that personal identity ( not necessarily spirit or consciousness) is centered in the brain. Otherwise, what becomes of a baby who is totally unconscious of his/her self ? What about mentally handicapped people, people suffering brain damage, or Alzheimer's disease?

What I am trying to say is that to me, an afterlife implies the kind of life that our physically based consciousness permits.  From an Anthropological and Sociological perspective,  it's easy to see how the concept is represented in so much cultural diversity throughout the span of human history. If we are centering everything around a certain continuation of our identity ( and that's what all these religions, cultures, shamans are essentially doing), then shouldn't we all pull out a gun right at this moment in order to let the continuation occur whilst we have relative conscious lucidity? I, for one, am not to keen on that idea.

[CFTraveler]

ficticious fantasy, when your dead your dead

tom-aye-to, tom-ah-to... when you're dead, your body may be dead in this system of probabilities, but...

[CFTraveler]

patelpuvik wrote:

In the Easter belief system, ther is a concept of Physical, subtle and astal bodies and they beilive that the later two bodies goes to the physical body of hte next life in the form of seeds. And that is why a child is born with a specific state of mind with differrnt habbits and fears.

I have read a little tiny bit about this and would love it if you could expand on this.

I have heard that most western relegions beleive in soul waiting for hte judgement day and not taking up another body and that everyone is born a sinner. Please pardon my ignorance as I have not studied Wastern relegions. but I have a question? , Are everyone born with the same level of sins? ( please do not get offended, I just want to know out of curiopcity rahter than trying to disapprove someones relegious beleif. I apologize in advance if I am offending anyone).

When christianity started, it was  a time when there was a sense of despair, and the prevailing belief was that the end of the world was at hand (eschatology).  When after a bit of time this didn't happen, the kingdom of God became 'where you go to after you're dead'.  So 'judgement day' was part of original christianity, and continues to be important, but not as a present phenomenon, more as a future phenomenon.
One branch of christianity, namely catholicism (but I'm sure other denominations also) adopted the belief that humans inherited the 'sins' of 'Adam and Eve', influenced by the myth of the Garden of Eden.  This branch took the teachings of a man called Augustine, who taught that humans were born with the built-in defect of 'original sin', and had to be baptized to be allowed into heaven.  Even though the last Pope repealed this idea, some Catholics still believe it.
I of course, will set aside my own beliefs about this (a previous post will tell you what I believe), since I am attempting to illustrate the ideas that you're asking about.

[ubiquitous]

but...... is that all u can do....... some traveller