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Author Topic: Belief systems....what are they?  (Read 2660 times)
WalkerInTheWoods
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« on: September 22, 2003, 13:44:31 »

You are right. We all belief something in one way or another. The danger is when one is closed minded in their belief and refuse to grow or even consider contrary beliefs. Here on the physical we cannot see the whole picture, so how can one claim to know it all?
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Alice had got so much into the way of expecting nothing but out-of-the-way things to happen, that it seemed quite dull and stupid for life to go on in the common way.
Avalon
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« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2003, 13:56:51 »

Excellent question!

Don't we all have a beliefsystem?    

********
be·lief sys·tem noun  
 
1. set of beliefs: a set of beliefs, for example, in religion or politics, that form a unified system
2. organized societal beliefs: a collection and organization of beliefs prevalent in a community or society
 (Encarta)
 
*********

I can honestly say I don't have any religious or political beliefs.  I do have societal beliefs though.  I guess it depends on which you are asking about.

I think the keywords in the above definition are community, society, and unified.  Meaning that to be a belief system, more than one person needs to "believe" in that system.  Even the definition of dogma contains synonym's of the above key words.  And it's Greek meaning follows:

Mid-16th century. Via late Latin from Greek dogma  (stem dogmat- ) “opinion, tenet,? from dokein  “to seem good, think? (source of English orthodox and paradox).](Encarta)

Mustardseed says: "One who vocally attacks the beliefsystem of another would in my book be termed the agressor or the "Missionary" wether one Challenges the beliefs of another with a "prove to me" or simply puts it down as being "ridiclous" makes little difference."

I agree.  Just as people who are attacked for having a belief system, I've also been attacked for admitting that I don't have one.  I don't usually "attack" unless I've been "attacked" first.

Mustardseed says: "I find it way more beneficial if we were all to just put our beliefs out on the table like a farmers market and we could all go around and take a look, no hard sell and no putting down the other "products"."

That would be nice.  Then maybe some exchanges of opinion and open minded discussions could take place.  That we all just agree to disagree.  However, I don't think that is the nature of most people when they feel they have to defend what they believe or they've taken someone else's refusal to believe what they do personally.  That's why I prefer to keep my ideas/opinions/beliefs to myself for the most part.
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« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2003, 13:56:51 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

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James S
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« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2003, 22:22:06 »

Mustardseed,

If you haven't already, have a read of Robert Bruce's Catch Basket Concept on the Astralpulse main site:
http://www.astralpulse.com/articles/robert/articles_44.htm

I found it a very usefull read, and it might answer your question more clearly.

Regards,
James.
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Beth
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« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2003, 00:56:57 »

Mustardseed:

As I have come to understand "belief" it is a part of our nature as human beings.  We "believe" in hundreds of things (if not more even)and daily depend upon these beliefs "to get us through the day and night."  These beliefs range from practically insignificant to life committing.  Religion is usually just "one" of them.  

Belief systems, like you said of your own (and I will personally agree with you) grow and change all the time.  I have held certain beliefs about the bigger social issues of religion, politics, foreign policy and economics. But these beliefs have certainly changed through the years.  I have also had certain beliefs that have been more personal, such as the nature of "family" "love" "friend" and "desire."  These too have changed.

Your question of "not believing" in something -- that it actually means that, in and of itself, this is a "belief" -- is actually right in my understanding. Especially when "it" is manifested in different ways all around you. Not to believe in "unicorns" is one thing, but to not "believe in religion" is quite another.  "Religion is everywhere."  Believe it.

I am not trying to split hairs here, but this is where we get into a lot of senseless arguments.  This is where we show ourselves that we are not on "the same page" with our vocabulary.  In other words, there is a very big difference in saying "I believe" and "I know"--or in "I agree" and "I disagree."  For example, I choose at this time to believe that angels or spirit guides do exist.  However, I may be proven wrong one day when I find out that what I actually perceive to be "angels and spirit guides" are really other beings living in a parallel world that, unbeknownst to me how they do it, pierce the veil between worlds.  All I can do right now, is "believe" in what I can say that I "know" I have experienced.  I "know" there is "something" that I am in contact with, but I cannot be "sure" what that is.  Until I "know for sure" -- I choose to "believe."

So, maybe I am rambling, but my point is that I have found that what "I believe today" --I will embrace--but this may not be what "I believe tomorrow."  So I have learned to keep my options open.

Peace,
Beth
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Mustardseed
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« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2003, 02:46:01 »

Very very nice and comforting post Beth. We both knew we were not so far apart. My problem is often the difference between Intuition (telling me really what is happening) and my mind (telling me no way you are imagining things) I always say with Obi Wan Kanobi. "trust the force Luke shut the machine down". Intuition has shown itself to be a better guide for me than , figuring things out.
Regards Mustardseed
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« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2003, 02:46:01 »



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Avalon
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« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2003, 22:36:45 »

Are we discussing beliefs or belief systems?

I have beliefs.  Many of them.  We all do.

Do I subscribe to any particular belief system?  No.  I think, like you said Mustardseed, that my beliefs are more based on my intuition than anything.  Sometimes just the pressure of feeling like I should have a belief system make me believe certain things.

I'm still searching and researching my own path. [Smiley]
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Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a  well  preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting,

". . . holy sh*t . . . what a ride!"
James S
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« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2003, 02:45:51 »

We all have belief systems. If we have beliefs, then we have belief systems.

The distinction (as I see it) is this:
We all believe in things. Things we see or experience, things that our intuition tell us to be true or false, become our beliefs.

With every belief comes a little piece of filter material for our perceptions. As we build up beliefs, this perceptual filter gets built up. This filter shapes the way we look at things by allowing some ideas through while blocking others. This filter is our belief system, and it changes and grows constantly because the things that it allows through end up becoming part of it.

It is because of this growth that our belief systems can get very complex and messy, and from time to time need to be pulled apart and cleaned up.

Regards,
James.

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Avalon
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« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2003, 00:50:05 »

I completely understand what you are saying James.  And yes, I do have beliefs.  No specific religious beliefs though.

I was raised in an almost entirely unreligious environment.  I was exposed to bits and pieces of Catholicism (my Mother) and Southern Baptist (my Father).  Although it might sound like I should be CONFUSED (haha!), it really made me open-minded to the existence of different belief systems.  

I've found that although I have trouble BELIEVING in certain religions, I can respect that people have their own beliefs.

When this post was started, I was truly excited to discuss what other people thought about belief systems but what I came to understand about this post was that some people just want validation for their thoughts.  I'm not saying that is wrong, what I'm saying is that my posts weren't to dispute anyone but to provide a point of view maybe other people haven't thought of.      

I still stand by my statement that I don't have a religious belief system.  Maybe not so much by choice but circumstance.  It was not something I was raised with and as an adult, I enjoy the open-mindedness that comes with the lack of "filters" and "building blocks".  That comforts me as much as other people's religious beliefs comfort them.[Smiley]

I guess you could say my belief system is to NOT have any beliefs and that my filter removes all beliefs.  On the other hand, I still feel like I'm waiting for my moment of enlightenment.[Cheesy]
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Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a  well  preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting,

". . . holy sh*t . . . what a ride!"
Mustardseed
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« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2003, 11:09:26 »

I have been wondering about this question. As you know I do have one allthough ot is somewhat different from most Christians. At times I have had this, used against me in a very sort of......negative way, and I am wondering this:

Dont we all have a beliefsystem? It seems to me that even the stated absense of one would mean we have one. Isnt it also the same with the "terrible "word Dogma or dogmatic. What is that in Greek Beth. Dont have my books here. To me the question should not be wether one believes or accepts dogma but wether one has an "open ended ticket" so to speak. Is there still a possibility for adding things deeper understandings , and further embellishments. So far as being dogmatic I see that in most everyone here at one point or another, and dont consider it nessesarily a bad thing. To me this is when it gets interesting, and it seems that this is also where a lot of the arguments appear. One who vocally attacks the beliefsystem of another would in my book be termed the agressor or the "Missionary" wether one Challenges the beliefs of another with a "prove to me" or simply puts it down as being "ridiclous" makes little difference. It also seems unfair and inherently negative, that one has to continually have to prove ones belief, as it seems to me that if beliefs differ , which we know they do it is only possible do do so by disproving the belief of others. I find it way more beneficial if we were all to just put our beliefs out on the table like a farmers market and we could all go around and take a look, no hard sell and no putting down the other "products". My Faith seem to be in constant motion and expands infront of my very eyes at times, mostly becourse of what I allow myself to learn, but after having been around the block a couple of times, I often come back just to a fuller understanding of what I believed to be true all along.
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