My God Theory

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d4nce4m01

I figured I'd write it down somewhere were someone can tell me what they think.

I started thinking about God after I had a hard time digesting what I was being told in my Philosophy of Religion class. I feel that you're not going to be able to define or prove God's existence using man-made theories, or man-made words. Alot of it was based on what I've been reading by Ramtha, and from Seth, and Orin. So if it sounds familiar, yah, that's where alot of it came from. However I think it's different in some ways, but I could be wrong.

So the main assumptions (because that's what they are assumptions, as is every theory on God :P)
- God is infinite
- God is everything
- God is loving

anyways:

He is not the Christian Omniscient, Omnipotent, Omni-benevolent God. In fact He is not exactly a he either.

God is everything. He is all life, and all death, and all matter, and all non matter, he is all thought.

My way of explaining this is explaining the Universe. There was the Big Bang right? But before the big bang there was nothing. Not even space. There was absolutely nothing, and it's not something that we can really imagine, because when you imagine nothing you see a black void, or a white void or something, but there wasn't even that. And then BOOM The universe exists, and it's an ever expanding universe (well ok I know the whole elastic bit where we might snap back, or go on forever, or balance on a point, but forget that, I'm just going to go w/ the universe is continually expanding) so if you were to jump in a space ship, and set off to the end of the universe to see what's on the other side, well there is no end of the universe. Because outside of it is nothing, there's just nothing. the Universe is the universe is the universe, and there's nothing else (parallel universes aside... haha or w/e). Well the same applies to God. God is God is God and there's nothing else. Everything, other dimensions, physical reality, all of this stuff is God. The key's I'm writing on is God, the body I'm in is God, my thoughts are God, my pringles are made up of God, the Sun is God, you are God. We are all God. Ok but the pringles and stuff, the thought that holds the matter together is God. I'm not saying we've got some divine pringles here, I'm saying that the stuff that makes up the pringles, the matter, and the thoughts, that's God. God is everything.

And like I said, this means that we are God too. Does this mean we are thoughts of God? Yes that does. However are thoughts any less real? Don't thoughts have freewill as well? Haven't you ever just thought something, let it go free and followed to see where it lead you? It leads you to crazy places that's for sure, and is there anything more crazy than this physical existence? Well yeah, but God's thoughts (us) led us here, and this, everything is God. And in any case, even if we are thoughts of God, and this meant that God had control over all of us, it wouldn't make sense( Magnus my tutor's case is that God is perfect, and therefore if we were thoughts of God and we had freewill it wouldn't make sense because it would mean that God was lacking in some power, and that would mean that he was not perfect). God is infinite, like the Universe; God is forever in a state of becoming, He's like... the inverse function of y=f(x), He never reaches the asymptote just continually gets closer you know? There are no limits to God. And as the thoughts of God, this means we're able to go off on our own free-will because for it to be otherwise it would mean that God is limited. Also, God is not perfect. To have perfection means that there is an end point, and it is attainable. Well I don't believe there is an End point, and at that end point there is God. It just doesn't make sense. Perfection is attainable, and if we ever reached it, would that make us equal to God?

I do however believe that God is all-loving. It's part of the whole virtue of selfishness thing, but it's not actually selfishness, it's just learning to put yourself first. . By loving yourself, you can make yourself happier to love others more. You can only love so far as you are able to love yourself, if you can fully accept yourself then you will have no problems with fully accepting others, no matter what their views are. Ok so God is all loving, but that's because God fully loves himself. Imagine if God hated himself, we wouldn't exist, that's for sure. Or if we did, well it wouldn't be too good... So God loves himself, and since were are all facets of God, and everything is God, in this way God loves all of us and everything. It's like if you were God, and you absolutely unconditionally loved your body, then you're unconditionally loving every cell, and every atom of your body. You are embracing yourself fully, well God embraces himself. And we are God. If God judged or turned away one of us to 'hell' as they call it, God would be judging and turning away himself.

Because God doesn't judge and he loves us unconditionally, there is no Evil. Evil is just a judgment of Man, and the actions of man, which God fully allows as we were given free-will to act and express ourselves on this earth in whichever way we please, and that is Love. Love is freedom, it's unconditional. No matter how many 'evil' things you do, God will never judge you. There is no Hell, and there is no devil, because if there were, that would be God too, and if God created that it would be a punishment to himself. And it would destroy him.  So for God there is no evil, just 'evil' acts that we judge, for God they're just acts in themselves. It's like people say, you can't have good without evil, well good and evil are just two sides of the same coin. God is the coin. But he doesn't think of them as sides, he thinks of the coin as a whole. How could God be only good? If you were to say that God was only good, that would mean he was limited to being only good, and God is infinite. God is both good and bad. But like I said before, Good and Bad? Just judgments of man.

So you might be saying, if there's no hell, and no devil, what happens after death? Just paradise for everyone? Yeah I'm pretty much saying that. "'Even for all the bad people?" There are no bad people. And honestly, there is no death. Life is ongoing, and we are forever. We don't snap out of existence, how could that be if God were continuing onward, and is everything, and is forever? Since we are God, we can't cease to exist, that would be subtracting from God. And there is no subtracting from God. So why are we here on earth? What is our purpose in life? Well its' to live, it's to experience God in physical reality. It's to live, and to love, and to feel, and to know God. We are forever continuing and gaining wisdom, life after life, and beyond life. Beyond physical reality. Because there are other realities, God is infinite, there are infinite probabilities, and infinite realities, and an infinite amount of wisdom to learn, and we here to experience everything, but there will always be more. Your purpose? Live life and be happy. Do what you want, experience everything. You can't gain wisdom from things you haven't experienced first hand. Does that mean you've murdered in another life, in another time? Well if you dont' feel the need to do it now, I'd say that you have, and you're here now aren't you? Where is this hell you thought you were going to? Where is this devil? He's no where, because he doesn't exist, and there is no hell, because God loves you too much to punish you for anything you did.

What is the purpose of life? There is no life purpose really, only life. A purpose would mean that we're limited to one path, and you can't limit us, because we're God, and you can't limit God. That means that we are wholly in control of our own lives, and wholly responsible for ourselves. We can't say, 'oh I did this because of original sin,' or because we all have an innate greedy materialistic side, and that is why I stole all your money. No I did it because I wanted to. However my God will forgive you, except he wont really, because for God there is nothing to forgive, you lived your life, and you learnt from it. Are you going to have to go back and learn some more? Yeah probably, but after you've learnt everything you could  in physical reality, well then you can move on. God is in a forever state of becoming, as are we.

Now if we could all realize that we were God, and that everything is God, I don't think there would be conflict. Because everyone and everything is equal in the eyes of God. However we're constrained to these beliefs that God judges you, and if you don't do what God laid out, and if you have 'bad' thoughts, and if you hate, well you're going to go to hell, and live forever in damnation, then things are continually going to be bad. As long as you believe in evil, evil exists. As long as you refuse to believe that you are good, well you wont be good. If you believe that you are intrinsically greedy, then you will be because you will believe you have license to be, and you have an excuse. Well you don't. And there's no reason to be any of those things. You know how I said that you probably murdered in another life and gained wisdom from it? Well what if there was no murder? Then you wouldn't' have to experience it would you?

I also think that the way we're going we'll never prove God's existence. We have to get beyond ourselves in order to prove God's existence. Philosophy isn't going to help because we're attributing man made concepts and words to something that is beyond man, and beyond physical reality. This is why I think that the philosophy of religion is kind of ridiculous. You'll never prove God using logic, it doesn't' work that way.



some of what my mom had to say:

I think, mathematically, it can be proven that your God is the only God because of the notion of infinity. There can be no perfection with infinity - only change and exploration and creativity.

So this infinite God should advance us all measurably. Today we are confined by our judgmental God. We view others through these narrow lenses and we aren't open to the possibility that even a terrorist can teach us something. Pope John Paul did go and visit and reconcile with and forgive the man who shot him. He didn't become a victim. He didn't hold a grudge. He simply sat with him and forgave him. An absolutely Christ like moment.

The Christan god and the Buddha - could transform us towards your infinite God - because at their essence, they were a representation. Unfortunately, the Christan churches have mostly run amok. They play into man's very small notion of himself and because we all live in the here and now, day to day and have to play the cards of power - we fall into the grasp of these churches and think it's all going to be ok. Except it's not Ok. Because we all know how inadequate the churches have become and each time we leave, we know that we haven't even begun to touch what's spiritual. Which is why yoga and meditation classes are now probably more popular than church attendance. [/i]

Leyla

QuoteHe is not the Christian Omniscient, Omnipotent, Omni-benevolent God. In fact He is not exactly a he either.

God is everything. He is all life, and all death, and all matter, and all non matter, he is all thought.

So uh...How long have you been practicing paganism/wicca?

d4nce4m01

Paganism/Wicca?

Never.

Stookie

I like your ideas. (I see nothing "pagan" about it). You pretty much explain that God is infinite. That's agreeable.

but...
QuoteI also think that the way we're going we'll never prove God's existence. We have to get beyond ourselves in order to prove God's existence. Philosophy isn't going to help because we're attributing man made concepts and words to something that is beyond man, and beyond physical reality. This is why I think that the philosophy of religion is kind of ridiculous. You'll never prove God using logic, it doesn't' work that way.
This statement contradicts your entire post. It's all unproven philosophy.

(I think it's good for a person to contemplate this kind of stuff, though)

d4nce4m01

Haha yeah I know, man made words, and theories, theirs, mine, it's all the same stuff. Just words. None of which prove God.

But I kept it in since it all started off as a rant against Descartes and the Philosophy of Religion and how ridiculous both of them are, even though it is a philosophy theory thing, and could technically be equally ridiculous depending on whom you're speaking to.

However, that whole infinite God business, while my theory doesn't prove it, infinity does exist. Perfectness doesn't. Well... I mean a perfect triangle exists theoretically, but you're not going to find one, you know what I mean? So this whole perfect God can't exist, can it? What is perfection, and is there such a thing? Is perfection the end point of all that is? Is there an end point? See every time I even try to comprehend this perfect God business I just get confused.


Btw... without sounding like an idiot, what is Paganism? Only thing I've ever read about paganism is... umm... Well is there paganism involved in that Arthur book, based on Morgaine? Mystic.. something.. or.. oh Mists of Avalon (I think).

ubiquitous

Paganism is being at one with nature talking to trees and stuff celebrating the components that give you life.

The feeling i get is that there is a creator when i look at all the fruits that sprouted it ain't no fluke sunny, nature has a motive and feeds our survival
this entity..........

d4nce4m01

Quote from: ubiquitousPaganism is being at one with nature talking to trees and stuff celebrating the components that give you life.

The feeling i get is that there is a creator when i look at all the fruits that sprouted it ain't no fluke sunny, nature has a motive and feeds our survival
this entity..........


Ooooh, so like Pocahontas stuff? " but I know every rock and tree and creature, has a life, has a spirit has a name..."
Ha I love that Disney movie...

Ryuji

ubiquitous
QuotePaganism is being at one with nature talking to trees and stuff celebrating the components that give you life.

defintly not as you put it. thats Shamanism, Druidism or some similiar sect. Shamanism very interisting - drumming nice way to release stress apart from the ritual usages.

pagan
1. One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion.
2. One who has no religion.
3. A non-Christian.
4. A hedonist.
5. A Neo-Pagan.

Paganism
n : any of various religions other than Christianity or Judaism or Islamism [syn: pagan religion, heathenism]

Peace and Love
Ryu

ubiquitous

what would u do if you wanted to get in touch with your pagen insticts ryu?? look in the dictionary for a definition??? no you would be out living with the land!!!

Leyla

I was speaking of mans first religion. The one that started in the Caves.

Our ancestors were more wise than you might think. Best explained by this story:

A Conversation between Tarzan and Jesus
Taken from : Another Roadside Attraction by Tom Robbins

TARZAN: In the old days folks were more concrete. I mean they didn't have much truck with abstractions and spiritualism. they knew that when a body decomposed it made the crops grow. They could see with their own eyes that manure helped the plants along too. And they didn't need Adele Davis to figure out that eating plants helped them grow and sustained their own lives.

So they picked up that there were connective links between blood and excrement and vegetation. Between animal and vegetable and man. When they sacrificed an animal to the corn crop, it was a concession to the obvious relation between death and fertility. What could be less mystical? Sure it was hoked up with ceremony but a little show biz is good for anyones moral. We were linked to vegetation. Nothing in the vegetable world succumbs. It simply drops away and then returns, energy is never destroyed.

We planted out dead the way we planted our seeds. After a period of rest the energy of corpse or seed returned in one form or another. From death came more life. We loved the earth because of the joy and good times and peace of mind to be had in loving it. We didn't have to be saved from it. We never plotted escapes to heaven. We weren't afraid of death because we adhered to nature and it cycles...

The point is we had a unified outlook on life. We even figured out how the sun and moon and stars fit into the process. We didn't draw distinctions between the procreative cycles of seeds and the procreative cycles of animals. We observed that growth and change were essential to everything in life, and since we dug life when it came time to satisfy our inner needs we naturally enough based out religion on the transformations of nature. We were direct about it. We went to the source...

Jesus kicked a pebble with the worn toe of his sandal "I've heard of the phallic and vegetation cults. Not very sophisticated. My father expects more of man than a primitive adoration of carnal nature. He must rise above..."

Rise to what Jesus? To abstractions? And alienation? Your scroll there, your book of Genesis says that in the beginning was the word. The simplest savage could see that in the beginning was the orgasm. Life is produced from life. While resurrection- the regeneration of seeds, the return of the spring leaves that fell in the autumn is of matter not spirit. Unsophisticated? Maybe it's unsophisticated to venerate mountains and regard rivers and sacred but as long as man thinks of his natural environment as hold then the going to respect it and not foul it up. We pagans have always sensed that mans roots were inorganic. Thats why we had respect even for stones.

"But you hadn't been saved..."

"Didn't need to be. Wasn't of any use to us."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ryuji

ubiquitous
don't know bout pagen, but pagan hehe  :wink:

as you interpret it, for me paganism is a whole collection of things such as shamanism which Ive done some and found it to be awesome. i prefer nature over silly city life - allot better for the soul anyways. if it wasn't for that i would have never tried some Jembe drumming. its really fun to do alone or in drum circle a great relaxer, stress reliever and or for ritual magick.

as long as you walk you own path by your choice and explore its best thing to do than to be just another following something mindlessly

Leyla
interesting read, that's must be what its like to try and convert a 'close to nature' or 'primitive' people to your belief system or methods. living that balanced with the universe, nature and fellow man must good :)


on the topic:
god/goddess for me can't be captured in a book, scrolls or any man made thing. that's all interpretations of a side of god/goddess according to the person who made it and should be treated us such with some respect.

wicca, paganism, christianity, hindu, islam, budda etc etc all just categorization and interpretations.

but nice and interesting read on your take on god ubiquitous thanks :)

Peace and love
Ryu

Gandalf

pagan
1. One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion.
2. One who has no religion.
3. A non-Christian.
4. A hedonist.
5. A Neo-Pagan.


A sadly out of date list of definitions.
Nowadays people are more aware of other religions like Hinduism and Buddism, Sikhism, Shintoism, etc and most would not term these as 'pagan' simply because they did not originate in the Middle-east.

You see, people are more educated nowadays and have become aware that actually there are other religions in the world apart from the three that sprouted from the Middle-east, although most *western* dictionary entries are still lagging behind in addressing this and are still stuck with old fashioned definitions, as are people who reside in the bible belt, some of whom only head about Islam after 9/11!

As for someone with no religion being a 'pagan', that definition is just plain wrong, it may be in the dictionary due to it being used as a more informal derogotary term  for someone with no religion (an athiest) but it is still, in fact, wrong.

As for being a hedonist, well anyobody can be a hedonist, so that definition is also wrong.

As for paganism refering to a believer in a polytheistic religion, well this definition is only true in part: sure many pagan religions WERE polytheistic, but i can also point to several pagan religions, both ancient and modern, which are actually monotheistic in nature.. Mithraism, Zoarastianism and Neo-platonism being three examples, the last of which is actually advanced pagan theology.

Egyptian religion was actually monotheistic in its refined theology, although many today dont realise this.
In fact by around 1500bc , Egyptian theologians had come to the conclusion that all gods were manifistations of 'Amun' - the unknowable First Cause. Because of this unknowable nature, he/it manifested itself to the world via myriad forms, but they were all ultimately aspects of the One.  Of course, this subtle realisation was not of interest to the common people who were happy to continue worshipping all the various gods, even if the educated elite knew them to be aspects of Amun/the One.
In fact the elite/priestly caste fully supported worship of the gods/aspects of Amun as they believed  them essential for us to contact him/it, as in his pure form he/it is of course unknowable.
Only one pharoh, akehnaten, tried to ban veneration of the aspects of Amun, ie the various gods, and to worship Amun directly, but his experiment was short lived and viewed as heretical by the prestly cast, who promptly reinstated the various gods/aspects again after the pharoh's reign.
It should be noted that Egypt in fact developed its distinctive monotheistic theology way before the Jews. In Egypt, this had reached its fully developed form around 1500bc, and although the Hebrews may have begun worshipping only one god, the Jealous God, around 1500-1200 bc or before, this was in fact a form of henotheism and they did not actually develop the concept that this god was the ONLY god, until 800-600bc.

The name 'Amun' was often added to gods names to reflect the fact that they were in fact aspects of the One.
For example, the sun god Ra, became known as 'Amun' Ra: The One in his aspect as the Sun.

btw this is pretty much the view of later Neo-platonism also, which was basically the final theology of hellenistic paganism, which sought to justify the worship of all the various gods, by maintaining that they were all in fact ultimately aspects of the Unknowable One, but therefore still essential.

Finally then we arrive at Jesus, who can be seen as a refined development of this theology, where he sits as the only aspect, through which people can contact the Unknowable One. When you view the Christian religion in the context of everything before it, it should be quite clear that the theology of jesus (whether or not such a man ever existed or not) is an evolution of ideas that goes way back; that is, the theology of jesus and christianity does not in fact appear like a bolt from the blue but should be seen as evolving from a long train of philosophical thought.

Islam, following Judaism,  tries to do away with the aspect concept, the middle man as it were, which is why i don't like it that much, but each to their own.



Anyway, I've completely gone off course and apologies, ah well.... I got possessed by Thoth Hermes, the Thrise Great............aaarrrghhhhh
"It is to Scotland that we look for our idea of civilisation." -- Voltaire.

Gandalf

well, lets just say religous concepts like belief in a deity.
"It is to Scotland that we look for our idea of civilisation." -- Voltaire.

ubiquitous

good old moderator scrap lovin it... anyway

I love my family and friends
I pray to be witness to the uncovery of fascinating scientific developments into the sub atomic make up of all matter and forces thoughts e.c.t and the exploration of our universe in the aim of coming closer to the creative essence of what people refer to as god.
Some might say thats my religion??? whatever
The higher the angle of acceptance the more resolute is the image (lord optikas), so by religiously restricting yourself to a shallow angle of acceptance means your hiding from the truth which is probably 000.1% resolved at earths present age and if all the "holy books" were found in a few thousand years they really would be in for some some ridicule.

good night everyone

Beth

It is very indicative of people's religious beliefs that if someone doesn't adhere to a particular religion, then they are considered to be 'atheists'.  

While Muslims, Christians and Jews banter back and forth, calling each other 'heathens' and/or 'evil' etc., I don't recall that any of them refer to the other as 'atheists' per se: 'godless' maybe, but 'atheist' no.  It is much like the disagreement between all the Christian denominations: they are all divided and fragmented within the group called "Christian" but can quite easily ban together 'against' Muslims, Jews, Hindus, etc., if needs be.

Personally, I think this is one of the biggest problems with organized religion:  an organization, by nature, puts 'God'/'Deity' in a particular concretized system that also, by nature, separates said deity from other 'systems'.  And that is exactly what 'beliefs' are: systems.

Interestingly enough, I spent some time last fall in discussion with some atheists and there is a very 'broad range' of belief within that 'category' as well; some consider themselves atheists simply because they are anti-christian (and therefore think that 'god' belongs solely to Christianity) and then there are others who claim strict scientific allegiance and until 'god' shows 'himself/herself' then there is 'no god'.  And then there are others who are really more agnostic, in that, they admit they know nothing about 'god' but would certainly entertain convincing thoughts about such an idea, but so far, no religion has offered acceptable proof.

So, variations are everywhere....and IMHO....so it is with 'god' as well!

~Beth
Become a Critical Thinker!
"Ignorance is the greatest of all sins."
                   --Origen of Alexandria

ubiquitous

yeah,
      Nice one Beth

        It's not easy to extrapolate thoughts on a subject like god into words.
So all the clans of religious groups are a good re feral as they do entertain such a notion, but to ask someone are u religious,do you believe in god,do you go to Fridays anti western rallies do u donate to 0890576754 wake the lord NO then you're an atheist your a this or a that what a load of!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The people who create are god showing up the truths, Euclid, Archimedes, newton then all the other people in medicine psychology,language, engineering,computers e.ct there more important than mu hammed,Jesus and all the other celebrated religious useless "!%$£^£$^ we should celebrate successful people who improve the quality of life for everyone, find what they think about a owner of the universe.