Old testament God Yahweh and Father of Jesus Numbers 31

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Alan McDougall

Numbers Chapter 31?

I have great difficulty in rationalizing this chapter with a concept of a good loving God as depictured by the lord Jesus Christ. Someone help me please! The bible states that God is the same, yesterday, tomorrow and forever. This does not seem to be the case if one analyses and compares the awful chapter 31 of the book on Numbers, in relation to the loving, forgiving, Father God, that the Lord Jesus presented in the four gospels.

1)   Verse: 2 the Lord said to Moses take vengeance on the Midianites. In direct contrast, Jesus said, forgive those who hate you and despitefully use you. It is easy to love those that love you, but I say love those that hate you. Vengeance is mine said the lord I will recompense. However, here God appears to go against his own word and commands Moses to take vengeance.

2)   Verses: 3- 6 Make war and kill said the lord. This is a direct contradiction to Gods own commandment. Thou shalt not kill. Jesus said if a man strikes you on the one cheek turn and offer him the other and not to violence.

3)   Verses: 6-13 here the armies of Israel go out and destroy, spoil, burn and steal and plunder on Gods command. In addition, they slaughter all the adult males however; this is not sufficient bloodletting slaughter to please Moses or God as we read from verse 14. In contrast, Jesus said he that lives by the sword would die by the sword. The soldiers apparently somewhat kinder and merciful than Moses spared the woman and children much to Mosses disappointment and anger

4)   Verse: 14 Moses was wroth (angry) with the officers. Why? Because they had not slaughtered THE WHOLE LOT, WOMAN, CHILDREN, like they had done to the adult males. So what is sweet kind merciful Moses proposal? Verse: 15, He says now murder all the "LITTLE BOYS". In ABSOLUTE contrast Jesus said blessed are the little children for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. For goodness sake is this the same merciful loving God depicted by Jesus. No this horrific story does not end yet. Moses goes on saying." KILL ALL THE WOMAN" except those that have not had sex with a man. How on earth in those remote primitive days were the soldiers to know which woman was a virgin and which were not. There was definitely no gynecologist way back in 300O B.C. WERE THERE?  So to me they must on Moses command raped all the woman first and then murdered those who were not virgins. Why was it necessary to rape them all? Because a woman's age does not necessarily indicate whether a woman is a virgin or not.

5)   Now if any learned rational bible scholar can tell me that this is the same father God that is the same yesterday tomorrow and forever, I am all eyes and ears waiting for a logical explanation. You know if one takes out the title God and Moses and replaces them with Hitler and Rudolf Hess, no one would question that it was the work of the evil Hitler regime. Would they?

6)   Alan McDougall 13/7/2007
Take Care

Alan

AndrewTheSinger

According to the apocryphal books, that God, or those Gods, were up to no good. I don't mean to challenge people's beliefs or lack thereof, but what the texts say is that Moses was a faithful servant to those beings which were called Archons, they are the same that Sumerian legends reffer to as the Anunnaki.

'Jesus' came to actually challenge those Gods because people were being fooled. Jesus was not Jesus, but Seth, who entered the body of that Jewish man so that the Archons would not recognize him.

Unlike the prophets, 'Jesus' didn't speak about God, but about the Father, which was himself, and about a place, which is were the Spirit came, and that place is above the realm of the Gods, in the 8th Heaven, it's a realm of Light.

All Spirits come from there, but then they forget it as their Light gets trapped within the modelled forms (physical bodies).

Story goes that no one really understood the guy except for a few people, like Judas, James the Just, Mary Magdalene... and due to their confusion they started worshiping the Son of Man, which was a dead man made of flesh.

Now I'll give a candy to the first person that finds out who Seth was! :}

Hint: It's not the son of Adam.

I'm glad you brought this up.
Where does this silence come from?

The untold past of the Earth: http://hiddenhistory.awardspace.com

Alan McDougall

Hi Karma,

Nice reply, I like it  Jesus always  referred to his father or higher self.

QuoteNow I'll give a candy to the first person that finds out who Seth was! :}

Now could Seth have been the son of Lillith the first wife of Adam?

Alan[/color]
Take Care

Alan

AndrewTheSinger

Not son of Lilith, but that's an interesting story.

The Second Treatise of The Great Seth will give clues, but it will not give the answer. I really hope someone finds out, that will be great.

"And I subjected all their powers. For as I came downward, no one saw me. For I was altering my shapes, changing from form to form. And therefore, when I was at their gates, I assumed their likeness. For I passed them by quietly, and I was viewing the places, and I was not afraid nor ashamed, for I was undefiled. And I was speaking with them, mingling with them through those who are mine, and trampling on those who are harsh to them with zeal, and quenching the flame. And I was doing all these things because of my desire to accomplish what I desired by the will of the Father above."
Where does this silence come from?

The untold past of the Earth: http://hiddenhistory.awardspace.com

Tayesin

Excellent topic Alan.

I often point out to people, like my father who is a born-again Christian, that there seems to be two different gods in the bible. One of the Hebrews in the Old testament; a vindictive, violent, hate-filled egomaniac.... and the other of the New testament that Jesus spoke of as a loving and compassionate god.

The discrepancies are massive. Based on the Sumerian Tablets, I see that Yahweh was one of the Annunaki, a local deity... 'Mayor' of a region, who had a massive ego and who loved being worshiped by his subjects, just as many minor kings have in human history. This stands in stark contrast to the universal 'god' Jesus spoke of and that we can directly experience for ourselves; although not in the form of a deity or being, which was just a form used to help people have a concept of God.

This Seth sounds a little like a Jesus type. But could equally be Enki, son of Anu, who loved us (his creations) dearly.

AndrewTheSinger

There are many similarities Tayesin, but according to the legend of 'Enki and Ninmah', Enki was likely one of the Archons involved with the fashioning and task giving to the humans. He was surely one of the Mesopotamian Gods, and his son, Marduk, was worshiped in Babylon.

Enki had some strange deeds, like the raping of Inanna, and many affairs.

Seth, though, was on a very important mission. The text says that he came to Earth 3 times, the first time as Seth, the second time as Derdekeas - a voice that spoke to Shem (Noa's son) while he was out-of-body, and the third time as Christ. It is strange because in all the passages when Seth spoke about who he was, about his seed and their aeon, the text appears as missing. This shouldn't have happened, those who erased the text were trying to hide the information from the world.
Where does this silence come from?

The untold past of the Earth: http://hiddenhistory.awardspace.com

Tayesin

Quote from: AndrewTheSinger on May 21, 2008, 09:34:02
There are many similarities Tayesin, but according to the legend of 'Enki and Ninmah', Enki was likely one of the Archons involved with the fashioning and task giving to the humans. He was surely one of the Mesopotamian Gods, and his son, Marduk, was worshiped in Babylon.

Enki had some strange deeds, like the raping of Inanna, and many affairs.

Seth, though, was on a very important mission. The text says that he came to Earth 3 times, the first time as Seth, the second time as Derdekeas - a voice that spoke to Shem (Noa's son) while he was out-of-body, and the third time as Christ. It is strange because in all the passages when Seth spoke about who he was, about his seed and their aeon, the text appears as missing. This shouldn't have happened, those who erased the text were trying to hide the information from the world.

Hiya Andrew

Ninmah is one of the 'extra' names for Nin-hursag, Enki's sister, who is also know to us as Inanna. Strange how the names changed to reflect different aspects of one being, much like the Native American tradition of adding to or altering a name according to one's accomplishments in life. Nin-hursag also worked with Enki in the House of Life, in Africa, where the genetic programs to create workers was founded. And it is also where we first find the Caduceus that we know automatically today as a sign indicating the preservers of Life, in the medical world.

Inanna is well known to be a floozy, advertising her wares and putting out an open invitation for all. The actual passage says, "Come copulate with me. I command you to come forward and enjoy the pleasures of the flesh with the goddess Inanna".

Yes, Enki did have many affairs, they all did as it was a part of accepted life for them, as was Incest. He may have raped her, after being teased no end by her over some time and refusing to take to his bed, even though she had done so many times before. It was thought to be normal for the young Anunnaki males to 'take a women' they desired. It's a good thing we are more aware today of the rights of other people.

Interesting that Noah's son has the name Shem. Noah's name in the Sumerian Tablets is Utnapishtim and a Shem is also something very much like a pyramid capstone in shape and very reminiscent of a Space Capsule. In the Tablets, the Shem seems to have a few tasks, that of carrying one aloft on top of the rocket, and, the important function of being a place with communications devices to speak with Anu while he is aboard station... Nibiru. I find it interesting that the communications device appears also in the bible as the Ark of the Covenant

I absolutely agree with your comment about the removing of important information from texts. This is a historical thing done to prevent people from knowing the truth, even in our day when all information is disseminated through the news-release houses in major cities on every continent.

Also, after Enki was brought before the Counsel of Twelve by his elder brother Enlil to try and prevent him from warning the human population about the coming devastations, he went against this warning by cleverly having Utnapishtim sit behind a screen so that Enki could tell his woes to the wall and thereby not be charged with treason for telling a human. This is when he described the building of a Su-le-le (underwater-boat) to him. Of course once the Anunnaki saw that some humans had survived they knew Enki had done something to warn them. Because of this Enlil was enraged to the point where he made sure that Enki would forever be seen as the evil one, even going to the extreme of having Enki's wardship terminated.

Even that was not enough for Enlil, he had to make sure all humans in the future would think of Enki as an evil thing, so he spent much time and effort over many earth years to have Enki seen as the Serpent who tricked humans, by taking the snake from the Caduceus and altering it into the symbolism we see today in the fable of the Serpent in the Garden of Eden. Eden of course, being E.din, the place of the first time or where the Anunnaki made their initial bases between the rivers when they first arrived here.

Okay, my brain hurts now so I better stop here, lol.

CFTraveler

#7
Are you talking about the egyptian god Seth, Andrew?
I always associated Osiris with Jesus only because of the 'blood sacrifice' and 'dying to be reborn' aspect, but I would have never associated him with Seth.
http://www.egyptianmyths.net/seth.htm

BTW, where are you getting this information?

AndrewTheSinger

#8
Hi Tayesin,

That's very interesting, though the accounts seem to diverge at some points the stories are very consistent with one another.

Using your example of Noah's ark, or boat, an analogous of Enki secretly informing Noah is expressed as:

"This time he planned to bring a flood upon the work of man. But the greatness of the light of the foreknowledge informed Noah, and he proclaimed (it) to all the offspring which are the sons of men. But those who were strangers to him did not listen to him. It is not as Moses said, 'They hid themselves in an ark' (Gn 7: 7), but they hid themselves in a place, not only Noah, but also many other people from the immovable race." (revelation of john)

QuoteEven that was not enough for Enlil, he had to make sure all humans in the future would think of Enki as an evil thing, so he spent much time and effort over many earth years to have Enki seen as the Serpent who tricked humans, by taking the snake from the Caduceus and altering it into the symbolism we see today in the fable of the Serpent in the Garden of Eden. Eden of course, being E.din, the place of the first time or where the Anunnaki made their initial bases between the rivers when they first arrived here.

You gave me some great ideas so I'll just throw some thoughts.

When the Immortal Man of Light appeared to the first father Yaldabaoth, the Pronoia (knowledge) who was with him desired the Light, but she could not achieve it, for she was in the dark abyss, so she poured her blood upon the Earth in an attempt to make below like the above and equal his height. From that blood Nature came, and from nature came Eros, the desire. Nature had trees that contained the seed of the Archons and their angels, but some also contained the Light of the Immortal Man, since Pronoia had contemplated him. 

Justice established Paradise and there they put the first couple. They allowed them to eat from every tree, the grapevine for example instigated sexual desire, but they stood in front of the Tree of Knowledge.

"Then the seven of them together laid plans. They came up to Adam and Eve timidly: they said to him, "The fruit of all the trees created for you in Paradise shall be eaten; but as for the tree of knowledge, control yourselves and do not eat from it. If you eat, you will die." Having imparted great fear to them, they withdrew up to their authorities (...) Then came the wisest of all creatures, who was called Beast. And when he saw the likeness of their mother Eve he said to her, "What did God say to you? Was it 'Do not eat from the tree of knowledge'?" She said, "He said not only, 'Do not eat from it', but, 'Do not touch it, lest you die.'" He said to her, "Do not be afraid. In death you shall not die. For he knows that when you eat from it, your intellect will become sober and you will come to be like gods, recognizing the difference that obtains between evil men and good ones. Indeed, it was in jealousy that he said this to you, so that you would not eat from it." (the origin of the world)

So there was indeed something on the tree that spoke to Eve. When Sofia created Eve and put her in Paradise Eve gave birth to a creature that is the lord, but the authorities called it beast. The revelation of John tells what beast it was.

"But what they call the tree of knowledge of good and evil, which is the Epinoia of the light, they stayed in front of it in order that he (Adam) might not look up to his fullness and recognize the nakedness of his shamefulness. But it was I who brought about that they ate. (...) I appeared in the form of an eagle on the tree of knowledge, which is the Epinoia from the foreknowledge of the pure light, that I might teach them and awaken them out of the depth of sleep. For they were both in a fallen state, and they recognized their nakedness. The Epinoia appeared to them as a light; she awakened their thinking." (revelation of john)

Now Eve, since she had been fashioned by Sofia to awaken Adam, she was inspired to eat from it and share it with Adam. They both eat the fruit and gained knowledge. This is what Adam says:

"Now I slept in the thought of my heart. And I saw three men before me whose likeness I was unable to recognize, since they were not the powers of the God who had created us. They surpassed [...] glory, and [...] men [...] saying to me, "Arise, Adam, from the sleep of death, and hear about the aeon and the seed of that man to whom life has come, who came from you and from Eve, your wife. (...) When I had heard these words from the great men who were standing before me, then we sighed, I and Eve, in our heart(s). (...) Now then, my son Seth, I will reveal to you the things which those men whom I saw before me at first revealed to me: after I have completed the times of this generation and the years of the generation have been accomplished, then [...] slave [...]. (p.68 blank) (...) For this reason I myself have called you by the name of that man who is the seed of the great generation or from whom (it comes)." (the apocalypse of adam)"

"When they became sober, they saw that they were naked and became enamored of one another. When they saw that the ones who had modelled them had the form of beasts, they loathed them: they were very aware." (origin of the world)

I believe they ate from an hallucinogenic tree, because though Adam was 'asleep', Eve also saw the three men that brought them the Revelation of the eternal realms, and when they 'became sober', they recognized their likeness and  rejected the gods.

What I suspect is that since Enlil was enraged, he tried to blame his brother for everything 'bad' that happened to them, having him as a 'snake in the Eden', and he was very successful. But I would like to know what you think.
Where does this silence come from?

The untold past of the Earth: http://hiddenhistory.awardspace.com

AndrewTheSinger

Hi CFTraveler, part of this I had from a previous research, and the texts are from http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html

Hmm, the Osiris, there are many of them, all from the eternal realms too, they are the unbegotten giants.

Now Seth from Egypt, that's a good shot, but how can he and Jesus be the same, wasn't Seth a rebellious god, god of chaos, who fought against the other Gods?  :wink:
Where does this silence come from?

The untold past of the Earth: http://hiddenhistory.awardspace.com

Tayesin

Hi Andrew.

Quotethe Pronoia (knowledge) who was with him desired the Light, but she could not achieve it, for she was in the dark abyss, so she poured her blood upon the Earth in an attempt to make below like the above and equal his height. From that blood Nature came, and from nature came Eros, the desire. Nature had trees that contained the seed of the Archons and their angels, but some also contained the Light of the Immortal Man, since Pronoia had contemplated him.

This sounds very similar some of the passages about the genesis of our solar system in the Tablets, and the 'she' it refers to was called Tiamat, meaning "watery-mother". We are told a large water world was also within the sun's realm (orbiting the sun) and had what could be called a very close shave with Nibiru which caused pieces of each to be ripped from their surfaces, while some of Nibiru's leading comets/debris actually impacted her so that a large piece was ripped from her side. That 'collision' must have seeded life on Nibiru. And the chunk that was ripped free from Tiamat must have also contained the seeds; we are told that subsequent passings of Nibiru put this chunk into it's station and described it's path, meaning to place it in the habitable zone and have an orbit. This chunk then was green, watery and teeming with life, and has become known to us as Earth.

I'm unsure about the whole Garden of Eden scenario, but I base this on my current understanding of the Sumerian Tablets, as always, lol.

From what I understand, original sin wasn't to do with eating an apple from a taboo tree, I think that fable came well after, perhaps in the time the Hebrews were traveling from Sumer to Egypt? They left Sumer with the edited versions of the Genesis tale, so the fable must have started at some time from there on. Interestingly, we never hear of the Hebrews as a separate race until that time, so maybe they are really Sumerian?

The first 'sin' was a different thing altogether, and even then it wasn't seen as a sin, only as being abhorrent.  This came about when the second prototype worker, homo sapien sapien, the Adamma, was caught having sex with animals by Enki, who understood that his creation did not know it wasn't an animal.  Enki fixed this by having one of the Anunnaki women take the Adam to a secluded place in order to teach him the ways of the flesh. We are told this was successful because the Adam sought out his teacher frequently afterwards and had even fallen in Love with this much older female. Because of his smell the animals would no longer go near him.

It was after this time that the Anunnaki women who were incubating the production version workers, decided to refuse this work as they did not like being pregnant all the time. Enki had to come up with a way to fix this problem for good, he asked them to stay long enough to help him sort it out; which some of them did. Next he took some DNA from bone marrow in the Adam's rib, which is the easiest place to get it from in a living human, and set about creating a female version that could reproduce. The first female was perfect in every way, except it could not reproduce, just as any hybrid can't. So he then made modifications and included more specific DNA from an Anunnaki women, most likely his sister, and then created a working replicate that could reproduce. When enough of these were brought to fruition, he was able to allow the incubators to retire. The Adam was then given the task of teaching the newly created females about the pleasure of the flesh, which he did and from then on, Enlil became annoyed with us because we "rutted all the days and nights and caused such a din that he could barely sleep". lol

There had always been tensions between the two Aunnaki brothers, which also is found in every other culture's myths. Enlil was never pleased with being the older son (1st born) to a servant woman of Anu's, while his younger brother Enki was born to Anu's wife and this gave him all rights and entitlements of a real first born son. So Enlil was cranky about it from the get go. We can imagine he was always on the lookout for ways to get Enki into trouble or removed entirely as long as his own hand was not shown to be the cause. So at the first opportunity, he complained about the workers Enki was producing in vast numbers by this time, and there are many recorded conversation between Enlil, Anu and the Counsel of 12. All conducted without Enki's knowledge.

Yes, Enlil was a back-stabber! And he must have hated his little brother so much in order to seek out ways of having him removed from the Wardship of 'middle earth'. He would not have succeeded if Enki hadn't actually loved his creations so much that he went against a direct order to save some of us before 'the flood'. From that one line we can see who this 'god' is, the one "who so loved us..." Once Enlil was in control of the earth and it's slowly increasing population of humans, he became happy. He saw that he had finally gotten what he deserved as the first son to be born to Anu, and as mentioned before set about ensuring Enki would not be seen as a good son to all his future creations.

I see many similarities between your quotes and the Sumerian Tablet's genesis tale, as well as what came after. I regard the tablets as the original texts due to them being a few thousand years older than anything else that was written. The Nag Hammadi 'library' came much later in time, possibly about the same time as the Dead Sea Scrolls? I think the Nag Hammadi has excellent information in it, especially the sections on the genesis of earth and human life where it agrees with humans being created by "lesser gods", but I still view it as expurgated versions of the Sumerian works due to many exact quotes and lines of information. The main difference is the tell-tale sign of religious bafflements, meaning the over-use of flowery descriptives for god, etc. Apart from that I agree with much of it in light of reading it after the Sumerian originals, which read much like a prosaic tale.