Proof Of God's Existence

[Kerrblur]

Hello,

    The only reason I made this post, is to place very intelligent people in the place of kinda speaking these words that spiritualality and christianity do co-exist together, and the people who do not believe in god(like myself at one point in time) I made that very long and complex essay about my idea of the proof that there really is a god, not just "there 'is' something up there higher than all of us, (DUH! thats god).

[Candieapple]

Kerrblur:

In Robert Bruce's book Astral Dynamics he describes the silver cord in great detail on pgs. 397-403. It was really interesting and packed with information regarding the cord. Do you have the book? If not I can tell you a little of what the book says.

Also, I was wondering what you thought about the information I gave here on the "magical brain"?

[chill]

quote:Originally posted by exothen

kakkarot,

quote:you say that ALL scriptures are "God-breathed", how do you know?

Because the Bible says so. []

Neale Donald Walsch wrote Conversations with God: an uncommon dialogue book I, Conversations with God: an uncommon dialogue book II, Conversations with God: an uncommon dialogue book III, The New Revelation: a conversation with God, etc.

All of what is written in those books is God-breathed. How do I know ? Because the books say so [].

Ok. That might have been a bad joke.
Sorry.

[Kerrblur]

haha, hey! someone will laugh! []

[pyro4571]

"Cause really I believe, over the ages, the christian religion has corrupted scriptures and slowly brought people into thinking this kind of stuff is the work of the devil. JUST like how most people today perceive 'easter', people think of easter as eggs and bunnies, but it blinds the real truth behind easter itself, jesus and such...."


kerr i agree with you. while i am religous, i think that the church and other people have changed the meanings of a lot of things
PS. sorry 4 the late response

[mustard]

quote:Originally posted by pyro4571

"Cause really I believe, over the ages, the christian religion has corrupted scriptures and slowly brought people into thinking this kind of stuff is the work of the devil. JUST like how most people today perceive 'easter', people think of easter as eggs and bunnies, but it blinds the real truth behind easter itself, jesus and such...."

I feel exactly the same way. People believe in hell,  ivisible demons created from fire trying to ruin our lives, and end of the world because they are influenced by major parts of holy books that
consist of writtings describing, guilt,punishments,battles between good and evil, and apocalypse. All this things bring fear into people.
Nothing attracts people's attention like fear soon they get lost and
consumed by it. They loose their path to peaceful way of leaving.


God's existance can never be proved
or disproved.

[Tony M.]

I've got a question for the creationists:

Why did God make the universe expand from one point?

[kakkarot]

why did he give us tounges? why lips? why eyes? why walk upright? why make it so that we need oxygen to live? why ... whatever.

if it were made any other way we'd still be asking "why'd he make it like this?"

~kakkarot

[exothen]

Excellent kakkarot.[^]

Tony,

I take it you're an evolutionist. I'll answer your question with one of my own: How did nothing make the universe expand from a single point? I could ask "why" but nothing has no meaning or purpose, so the question would be meaningless.

[Tony M.]

Ok, but do you think that God made EVERYTHING with a reason?

[exothen]

Yes.

[Van-Stolin]

Ok, then he just made dead planets for a reason that we have yet to fiqure out.  Or maybe he made them, because he knew that we would abuse the Earth and would have to go and live on another planet, though the question remains on why they are still dead.

[kakkarot]

whether He made everything with a purpose or not is inconsequential.

things just are how they are. if they were any different they'd still be just the way they are, regardless of purpose. and that is true from both a creationist and an evolutionist point of view.

~kakkarot

[Kerrblur]

I feel pretty proud of myself, I created a pretty popular post speaking on how young i was on this forum! people gotta give me props!!
*CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP*
December 3rd, 2003 until january 8th, 2004.
And alot of posts in little more than a month!

Imagine if it went two months, or 3! wowsers!

[rhinegirl]

*CLAP...CLAP...CLAP...YAWN*

Jessica

quote:Originally posted by Kerrblur

I feel pretty proud of myself, I created a pretty popular post speaking on how young i was on this forum! people gotta give me props!!
*CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP*
December 3rd, 2003 until january 8th, 2004.
And alot of posts in little more than a month!

Imagine if it went two months, or 3! wowsers!

[Akensai]

I think most people do not so much disagree if god exist, but more on what god wants us to do.

[Kerrblur]

You would be surpised in how many people question God, and how many people even MORE argue over religions and what can and cannot be there.

Read this thread. and gimme input!!

[onefromsomewhereelse]

Ryan, I think much of the confusion on some of the posts on this topic have to do with not quite understanding our relationship to the Lord.
The reason we believe in God is easily shown through His creation.  Look at the many colors and patterns in, say, flowers.  You can easily see a designer involved.  Look at the animal kingdom; one example I have used before is the giraffe...being very tall, they should blow out their brains with excessive blood pressure every time they bend over to eat something on the ground....they don't, because of a very complicated valving in their necks, so as to equalize blood pressure.  Is this an accident?  Ha      Evolution?  They wouldn't have survived past the first one; besides, where does this "evolution" guy get his blueprint for the valves?   One has to be a fool to not believe in the existence of God.  Heck, even Satan believes!  

The Bible, plus common sense, teaches that we are all "dead in sin", and that only the Lord can give us spiritual life.  Being dead (spiritually), our pride wants us to expect an obedient God to explain all things to us, so that we may consider serving him.   Ha Ha
We are the creation, not the creator....God doesn't owe us squat.  Then, what's this stuff about heaven, if we are all doomed through our sins?  A very quick summary follows:

Man can't enter a perfect Heaven due to sin.  God wanted to save some of us.  What to do?
Due to subsitutionary atonement, God came to earth through Jesus, and led a perfect life, and then, through a little bartering, exchanged this perfect life for the sinful ones of His people, thereby enabling some of us to end up in Heaven.

Who are the "some of us "?  Well, that's where it gets a little blurry; basically God chose some, in spite of our sin and our not desiring to follow Him, to be His children.  At some point in the life of every child of God, we get a new spirit, the Holy Spirit.  At that moment, our spiritual eyes and ears are open, and we experience this new birth, which often takes the form of a struggle within....a holy spirit in this corrupt flesh?  Quite a struggle at times.
From this point, when we are mere babes, we strive to learn more of Him, and grow.

Don't forget that sinful body which still is in us.....sometimes we actually go backwards (check out David, for ex.).  Once we realize what a gift we have been given, in spite of ourselves, not because we did something to please God, we are changed.  Our desires are not the same; we have different "want to's".  Plus, the ones who blast God think it's all a big fake deal....they just don't get it.

You can seperate all religons into 2 general groups....the first group thinks that, if we do the "right" things, God owes us one, and he winks and smiles and gives us a ticket to Heaven.  Most of the world, including God's people, believe this.  You can see it in every faith from Bhuddism, etc. through about 90% of christanity.  Just different works, but the exact same mentality.  This, of course, does not mean that the individuals are being insincere in any way....they just don't know any better, because they haven't been taught.

The second group realizes we are saved completely by the grace of God, again....in spite of our works, not because of them....  I am not connected in any way with this website, but check out www.pb.org, among others, for deeper insight.

Of course, I don't mean to say that a child of God continues to sin as before; that would be bad fruit, and we are told to be fruit inspectors...."by their fruits ye shall know them"...

Generally speaking, if you run across someone honestly struggling to want to please God, worried if they are "good enough" etc....they are probably already a child of God, for without having their spiritual senses turned on, why would they even care?   Only God can make this one "born again".

Just think for a minute....what can we do to facilitate our natural birth?  Nothing at all.  The new baby cries out AFTER being born, not to get born, but because he already is!
In the same way, you can't do anything to earn your second (spritual) birth, but, once born again, you cry out, seeking God.   That's why the term "born again" is used.  Think about it.

For what it's worth.

[Mustardseed]

Dunno what it is about you that puts me to sleep[8D]

[Kerrblur]

hahahaha MS, onefromsomewhereelse, ill nickname you 'ONE',
Interesting post, I like.  Very long.  But hey You put it into words I'll tell you what!  Good work.  But Noone Makes a post as long as I did, I'll be surprised if anyone even read the whole thing.

But what you said made sense yes.

[onefromsomewhereelse]

Sorry; it was a WAY too long post.  I fell asleep myslef just typing it!
Coupled with the 3 second attention span MTV generation types,  it probably won't get read by most.  But, hey, there was no good place to end it....

[Mustardseed]

......But darn it you have a good sense of humour . For the record I did read your post and agree with you on most things......"some of us" would do for a interesting Bible study. Care to try it out?.
Regards Mustardseed

[Kalonek]

Hello everyone !
I haven't read the whole thing, but i think that what i'm about to say haven't been told yet (at least i hope )

Wanting a proof of God's existence has always been the goal of the philosophs, but without any success. Recently (17th cent.), Kant has shown why this wasn't possible.

Wanting a proof of God's existence is wanting a proof of the Absolute right ? But the Absolute is precisely what exists by itself, without any interrelations with the rest. But a proof needs to refere to some experience (if X, then it would show that God exists). But the absolute CANNO'T be the object of any experience, as, what a revelation, it is absolute. How can you prove liberty ? Nothing can ever tell me that you're free. All what i know is that I think I'm free.

This leads us (and Kant hehe - in the "2nd Preface to the Critic of the Pure Reason" - don't know the exact title in english sorry) to make the distinction between to know and to think. We can't know God, as knowledge is precisely the result of an experience. Knowing is therefore giving attributes to an object. But we canno't give attributes to the Absolute, as we can't make any experience with him. Thus we can't have any proof of God's existence.
BUT, we can still think him. Without knowing what we are refering to, we can suppose the existence of him as the Absolute. Thus this last thing enters in the "belief".

Therefore, it brings us to some intersting thing : science canno't tell anything in metaphysics (like with the actual materialism), nor can metaphysics tell anything to science (as with the conflict with Galileo). It has brought us to make a clear distinction between those to things, which appears to be completely different, and not working in a similar way at all. But it also means we can never have any proof of God's existence, EXCEPT, we could think, by our own experience of life. But this can't be shared, and is therefore not a recievable objective "proof" (which is what was wanted i believe).

Hope it wasn't too boring to read I have made drastic simplifications here so it doesn't take 5 pages lol But if you want a more detailled explanation, i send you back to Kant's book, which talks mostly of metaphysics.

See you

[Gwathren]

Yes, that was a long post. Very important info, but I just had to say it. Now, the author, (or anyone) if you are really convinced that there is no God, I think you won't believe in God even when he strikes you on the head with his lightning bolt(or whatever)?

[Kerrblur]

I got a question, How can people seriously stop and say there is no proof of God's Existence when we have love. The feeling of love. everything I tried stating. And why do I think that the more people that try to deny any existence or proof of god, leads to more war and hatred.  The longer people continue to think this way, the more problems people are going to have living together i think.  Science and the metaphysical side of science are soon going to merge.  thats when all man will cease to fight over ones religion, and accept that there is one God, and trying to put science in front of faith doesnt make you the smarter human being.