Suicide bombing

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ubiquitous

I watched a program which traced back the first Islamic suicide bombing to a young kid in the Iraq/Iran war, he strapped explosives to himself(Iranian) and threw himself under a Iraqi tank and in so doing stopped the Iraq advance and has gone down in history as a legend, it is the only touching story i have heard with regard to this topic, mind you it does give good press to a bad idea.

The idea that young Muslim men are recruited to blow there life away in the promise of heaven is sick, u never see mosque leaders strap themselves up in the name of Allah, if they so strongly believe there is this better life after blowing themselves and others up in the process why don't all Islamic leaders/scholars blow themselves away to paradise??? instead of brainwashing others.
If i knew i was going to die, i would go to my local mosque on a Friday strapped full of explosives and pull the trigger and see how special they think this weapon is then!!!!!!!!!!!!

die no might

Ryuji

Underwear goes inside the pants...

Masterminds are another word that comes up all the time.
You keep hearing about these terrorists masterminds that get killed in the middle east.
Terrorists masterminds.
Mastermind is sort of a lofty way to describe what these guys do, don't you think?
They're not masterminds.
"OK, you take bomb, right? And you put in your backpack. And you get on bus and you blow yourself up. Alright?"
"Why do I have to blow myself up? Why can't I just:"
"Who's the <censodred> mastermind here? Me or you?"

ubiquitous

yeh,

sometimes in life you find a great advance,
it's a solution looking for a problem.
Some muslims are stuck in the qu'aran which through there leaders re-interpretation has created a problem looking for a solution, sadly young muslim people bear the brunt and are under the guidance of these"masterminds" who don't have any guts, so there is no point in them blowing themselves up.

James S

Doing something horrendous in the name of God or Allah relieves a person of the responsibility of thinking that what they are doing is way beyond human or more appropriately humanitarian reason.

James.

Beth

Quote from: James SDoing something horrendous in the name of God or Allah relieves a person of the responsibility of thinking that what they are doing is way beyond human or more appropriately humanitarian reason
Reading your response James, I was reminded of the sporatic bombing of abortion clinics here in the US during the 70's, 80's and 90's, where the 'Christian Bomber' didn't necessarily blow himself up, but would throw a bomb through the window or open door of a clinic, killing staff and patients alike.....In the 'Name of God' I should add.

Whether a 'High Tech Backpack Bomb' or a 'KKK Lynch Mob' or even a Medieval 'witch hunt', people who profess to know 'God's Will' have gone to great extremes through the centuries to 'eliminate the evil one' as they have seen fit.  While the current run of cases are certainly Islamic Fundamentalists, Christian Fundamentalists have been doing the same kind of thing long before the label 'fundamentalist' was coined to separate the 'good ones' from the...well...'not so good ones'.  

~Beth
Become a Critical Thinker!
"Ignorance is the greatest of all sins."
                   --Origen of Alexandria

ubiquitous

cheers for sweeping away the topic, local catholic leaders in the u.k never preached to young worshipers to strap explosives around themselves and detonate there life and in so doing any others that are near bye and religiously praise and promote this act did they Beth????????????????
Setting a bomb, or throwing a grenade ain't blowing Yourself up is it?

MisterJingo

Quote from: ubiquitouscheers for sweeping away the topic, local catholic leaders in the u.k never preached to young worshipers to strap explosives around themselves and detonate there life and in so doing any others that are near bye and religiously praise and promote this act did they Beth????????????????
Setting a bomb, or throwing a grenade ain't blowing Yourself up is it?

The thing is, the vast vast majority of mosque leaders do not condone this, and actually criticise it publicly (but the media isn't interested in this). Those which condone it generally have a political agenda, and use it a fear tactic (terror-ist).
I think Beth raised a good point in that other religions have done terrible deeds for misguided reasons. But it's in vogue atm to show Islam as a terrible religion, that we focus on the minority groups which do the terrible acts.
An interesting interview with a mosque leader I read raised a fantastic point. He said the way the western media flock to these radical leaders to show a portrayal of Islam would be the equivalent of Muslim press going to the KKK for quotes on which to portray the west.
We can appreciate how this makes no sense, yet we allow ourselves to be guided by the comments we see in the media which does such a thing.

Beth

Ubi...

Whenever I am faced with religious phenomena, which these bombings surely are, it is in my nature to immediately notice the patterns inherent in such situations and compare those patterns to similar situations in a search for some kind of meaning--some kind of explanation--especially for those things that are so terrible as these.  

As I see the inherent patterns in this thread's topic, there is little to no difference in any man's violence in the name of any god.  Whether it be Allah, Yahweh or Jesus, Islam or Christianity, both of these religions have---for many centuries---sought to wield their power in the name of their god in order to conquer some perceived evil.  

And, I shouldn't have to point out to any reasonably educated person that, countless unknown numbers of people have suffered and died throughout the centuries, oftentimes very brutally, either in the conquering or in being conquered.

As Lord Acton once wrote:  'Power Corrupts' and 'Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely'. How much more 'absolute' can it be that in the name of a God that humans can feel justified in bringing such vicious harm to other humans, hmm????

While Christian ministers may not explicitly tell those who commit violence in the name of their religion to 'go out and do so', some do consistently preach of the 'evil' of certain things; 'ideas of evil' that are then quite readily planted into people's heads who in turn, in the 'name of their god', act on their own volition to commit such atrocious acts.

"Religious Martyr's" were made popular with the advent and subsequent long history of Christianity. It should not be a suprise that it is the same in Islam as well.  

To the best of my knowledge, these bombers are in fact acting of their own volition, albeit that they have been thoroughly brainwashed to do so.  Whether the promise is of twelve virgins in heaven, or more familiarly, 'eternal salvation with an honored seat at the right-hand of God', the religious assurance that 'God' is on the side of such violence is 'Absolute Power' 'Corrupted Absolutely.'

~Beth

p.s. This abuse of power comes in a wide range of degrees: from the seemingly harmless quiet prejudice to the much more vocal and demonstrative acts that we see today.  I should also point out that there are many religious believers that have no designs toward corruption or violence, regardless of the motivation, but IMHO, they should be a lot more vocal against such atrocities made in the name of their religion.
Become a Critical Thinker!
"Ignorance is the greatest of all sins."
                   --Origen of Alexandria

ubiquitous

The psychology(sickology) of the suicide bomber the mentor,its origins/history and the power of persuasion.It's a relatively new phenomena and no longer constrained to Syria Lebanon Israel Pakistan e.c.t  i was hoping some people out there Muslim or not would like to shed any light on this topic.
For youngsters near where i live to be compelled to blow themselves away on the London underground shows how it is a trend amongst young Muslims people i have met do respect the bomber, work amongst the evil infidels in they day then prey for the death of the west at night, this ain't no media lingo jingo!!!!!!!!!!

Beth

Quote from: ubiquitousThe psychology(sickology) of the suicide bomber the mentor,its origins/history and the power of persuasion.It's a relatively new phenomena ... it is a trend amongst young Muslims people i have met do respect the bomber, work amongst the evil infidels in they day then prey for the death of the west at night, this ain't no media lingo jingo!!!!!!!!!!
Mob violence, Ubi, is hardly a new phenomena.  "Bombs in backpacks" is certainly a new method, but gang warfare with drive-by shootings, lynch mobs that would hang, burn, pillage and rape, and collective hatred that either comes out in favor of such actions, or quietly stands by and allows it to continue, are phenomena as old as 'warfare' and 'hatred' itself.  

Your use of the phrase 'power of persuasion' is behind all of the examples that I used to show that this is not a new phenomenon at all.  

The most pressing question here is: what can be done about it?  Obviously, that answer is still eluding us all....

~Beth
Become a Critical Thinker!
"Ignorance is the greatest of all sins."
                   --Origen of Alexandria

ubiquitous

i know fighting for what you believe in is not a new phenonema, the methodology is quite new and is at the extreme of what length one would go to.

Maybe boredam is at the heart of it, nature abhoors a vacuum so does the human brain i have  science technology lucidity to fill my void and fall back on, if someone is searching it leaves them more open and vulnerable to suggestion 21 century underground interpretation of islam gives them a feeling of importance/belonging a crusade if you like, its just sad.
So what is the mentors main goal, the plight of the palestinians? thats an old one. Anyone got any other suggestions.

Beth

Side Note:
Quote from: ubiquitous... if someone is searching it leaves them more open and vulnerable to suggestion 21 century underground interpretation of islam gives them a feeling of importance/belonging a crusade if you like, its just sad...
If I may add...even if someone is just looking for a 'fight' they will grab onto most any supportable cause through which to do so.  These bombers may certainly be seekers or even devout believers...but they may not be either one.  Unfortunately, we cannot ask them...

~b
Become a Critical Thinker!
"Ignorance is the greatest of all sins."
                   --Origen of Alexandria

Abraham

If you want to stop 'suicide bombnig' then get your troops and your dogs out of the Muslim lands.

Otherwise stop complaining and wait until the day when the rule of Islam is over your heads. It is not far off inshaAllah.

It is He Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad ) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam), to make it superior over all religions even though the mushrikun(pagans, disbelievers, non-muslims) may hate (it). [Qur'an 9:33]

And im sorry if youre so offended by the term infidel, its just an accurate description of what you are. You rebel against God and have no faith in Him, and you ascribe partners to Him. So you deserve to be called that.

Thanks,

-Abraham.
"Say, "Bring forth your proofs, if you are truthful" [Quran 27:64]

Beth

Abraham,

In the capacity of being a moderator for the AP, I will allow that one post just made, only because it reflects the language of radical Islamic rhetoric that is wide spread among some people at this time.  

I will not, however, allow any more posts to reflect such scathing language.  This is not the place to vent our emotions, to call each other names--and most importantly--this is not the place to make any kind of threats.  

This is a place where we can rationally and logically explore ideas, hopefully, to the betterment of our world.   If you cannot create rational posts in this manner, then you should perhaps find another forum to participate in.

This is your first warning from me.  My second warning will come after I delete any other post of this nature.  If I then find another, I will request that the administration ban you from this forum.  

~Beth

Note to Other AP members:
I respectfully request that you do not take the bait and respond to Abraham's post, but rather, continue with the original purpose of the thread.
Become a Critical Thinker!
"Ignorance is the greatest of all sins."
                   --Origen of Alexandria

velmwend

yeah right..."ok...guys..this is a religious war so strap that bomb on and you'll go to heaven...but hey, guys...remember to blow yourself up in an area of economical importance."

:roll:

ubiquitous

If velmnand and abrahim want to meet in the u.k i'd be happy to hear your view's personally with some of my muslim friends!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
U have hate and no heart
If it was up to me iraq war would never have happened but u'll always be moaning about something when your lives are so empty following historical trash, so get off this technology and sit in some caves somewhere talking about a islamic earth, i believe in a creator but not a religious one
and if the world was under taliban rule i'd gladly blow myself up.

Beth

Okay AP members, velmwend and ubiquitous, you are now warned as well.  

I specifically asked that AP members not respond to Abraham's post and -- those who are mature thinking individuals know exactly why I made such a request.  The two of you disregarded that request, so now both of you are walking on very thin ice as well.

Be rational, and BE NICE, or I will see that all of you are banned from this forum.

~Beth
Become a Critical Thinker!
"Ignorance is the greatest of all sins."
                   --Origen of Alexandria

ubiquitous

I agree beth, it's nice that views can be expressed rather than hidden though and there are lot of good
things to be said about religion but that extreme of it is a worry to me, but i'll think more on the ramifications on my next topic, but i'm sure other people here with sick views would'nt be blowing themselves up, the good people that have and why was the topic.

end of comments on this topic by ubiquitous

Beth

In looking over this thread, I think all that can be said about this subject has been said.  Ergo, I am going to lock the thread.  It will, of course, still be available for viewing.

~Beth
Become a Critical Thinker!
"Ignorance is the greatest of all sins."
                   --Origen of Alexandria