Who Jesus really was?

[milk]

:: This is kind of long, ok very long, but I think I might have some good ideas, but please just skim through it at least! Just comment on what you think, THANKS!::

OK, before I knew about, or even heard about the whole astral projection/ metaphysical area in general, I was a pretty religious Christian. This was only because I never questioned anything anyone said, I was told something, and I just believed it, because I had heard it all my life. Everything that happened in the Bible, I believed actually physically happened in real life. But once I started going through my age of questioning things, whether it was parents, society, religion, etc (you guys know what I'm talking about).

I began to wonder, how all the stuff in the Bible could have possibly have happened. I mean, isn't it odd that all of this happened a long time ago and the only evidence of Jesus or God is in written documents! We are taught to have Faith, but what is this Faith based on? How could Jesus have physically fed 5,000 people with just a few loaves of bread and some fish? How come there isn't any physical evidence of Jesus' miracles, or God's power? How come God chose to reveal himself so long ago and all of a sudden stopped? If he is so loving, why doesn't he just come out and say it? Why does God have to be so secretive? He's always mysterious. Why can't anyone perform miracles anymore? These are just a fraction of the thousands of questions I would ponder to myself.

It wasn't necessarily enjoyable either. I felt like with this new sense of reasoning that I was losing all the love I had felt before with thinking there was a being somewhere that was listening to my every prayer, and making sure I was safe all the time. I began to wonder, once being exposed to murder, and death, disease, poverty, and everything that is evil in the world, how God could be so loving? I know this is an age old philosophical question "why is there good and evil in the world?", But it had a deeper meaning to me. I felt my faith starting to crumble; I had to sit through church thinking that almost every other word the priest said didn't really happen.

Around this time is when I first learned about meditation. The teachings of various guru's and spiritual teachers had a strange sense of meaning and appeal to me, almost how I felt with the faith that I had before. The teachings of self-knowledge, truth, high awareness, becoming one with the vibrations of the universe, other dimensions and so on! Everything that had to be said about meditation, and its teachings, I absorbed like a sponge. I was constantly searching for new knowledge, to fill the hole that I had lost with my faith in the Bible. Everything started to make sense once I began to actually practice meditating. I could understand the teachings more. I began to discover things in my mind that I had never known before. It was almost like there were doors in my mind that were locked, and I had suddenly discovered the key. As I progressed in meditation, I began to realize how much I had missed out on not knowing. I realized that there was more truth, and knowledge that I got out of one solid good meditation session than one mass. I started to get into astral projection, and here is where I am to day, but I'm getting ahead of myself, before that I started putting things together.

OK, I began to look at the Bible from a different view, because I now don't view the world in the same way as I did before I started meditating, it's almost like I took a filter off of my brain, and I finally view everything differently. I don't remember how I used to view it. I just know it was a lot more different than I view it today. It was almost like I was in some program, like the matrix, haha! Anyway, I started to play with the idea that what if Jesus was the son of God, but in a different sense. I think I got the idea from the Islam actually, the idea that Muhammad was a prophet. I think one day I was just thinking about this, and the meaning of the word "prophet".

I think maybe the foundation of my thinking came from the Higher Balance company modules. A friend of mine (thank you Tom, and Eric ; ) ) lent me a few of his. The first thing that came to my attention was the theory of different frequencies of meditation. As explained in the modules, there are an infinite number of doors leading to higher states of consciousness, but it isn't easy to get to this. Some people may spend an entire life just visiting to one of these doors, which may be at a low level, not realizing that there is in infinite amount of higher doors waiting to be opened. Eventually, if you are very good at meditation, and have mastered it, you are able to unlock the highest levels of doors that there are (I know I said infinite, just pretend, Very Happy). At the highest level of these doors, or the highest frequency of thought, your are able to achieve enlightenment, or being able to be at the same frequency as God/ the energy of the universe/ Allah/ the ultimate energy/ w/e you call God. You are able to bring back knowledge from this frequency back to earth. Now, it may be a little hard to get across to people, because for someone to translate something that awesome into the puny 100,000 words that exists in language that might be a little hard!

Which is were I came to my first theory, maybe this is why Jesus talked in parables? Now I am getting ahead of myself again by not explaining why I thought Jesus was enlightened, but I will explain that in a second. The only way Jesus could bring the knowledge his mind had learned from the highest frequency of thought, was to explain it in terms in which people could understand it in... so stories.

OK, so one of the things that I am still not convinced about is Mary being a virgin, giving birth to Christ. I think this is fictional portion of the bible that someone added in, to make Jesus' story seem more incredible, I mean it was, but this was just added to spice things up. OK, the same way people tell old wives tales/ fairy tales. The Bible was a collection of oral stories, so probably eventually; things got a little stretched or added to give the story of Jesus a little zest. Just in the same way as your grandpa would stretch his stories a little, "travelled 30 miles to school" etc. Every tall tale comes about from a story that is orally passed down over time, until it becomes so absurd, that it isn't considered true anymore. Now, I'm not saying the Bible is a tall tale, I'm saying some parts follow the same theory as what I just described.

Another thing that the Bible may have that misleads people is the fact that people spoke differently than we do know, back when it was written. I mean, come on, it was 2,000 bloody years ago! Of course they would speak differently, and have different slang/ dialect than we do. Even are parents say funny words that were slang around their time, but not now. Who says "groovy" or "far out" anymore? Anyway, the point that I am trying to make is that Many things in the Bible could have been worded in maybe a more poetic, metaphorical/ literary form.

Just how modern poets use different phrases for describing things? Such as, instead of saying "the sun", one might say "a great sphere of burning anger" as an example. So when whoever wrote the Bible would say something like "Jesus is the Son of God" they might not have literally meant that he was. OK, so Jesus grew up, and was probably introduced to meditation/ astral projection at a young age, just how some of us in this forum were. Now meditation has been around for ages, as most of you know, in the east, for thousands of years. So, Jesus probably became very good at it, maybe he was a natural, maybe he was just practiced a lot. He was probably a fast learner, sought enlightenment, and eventually, as I said before, probably unlocked the highest doors, and entered the highest frequency, or the frequency of God/ the energy of the universe. This is probably why he talked about being so close to God, because in a sense he was. He was at the same frequency as this Being of Universal Energy, that he probably felt as if he was almost the Song of God. He probably used the word "God", because that's the word that people were familiar with, but he ultimately meant this higher energy.

Jesus spoke poetically, and a lot of the stuff he said, probably was not meant to be taken literally, rather thought about by people, so they might become closer to this higher frequency, or for them to be able to seek inner truth and knowledge by wondering about these things Jesus said. When Jesus would pray for very long times he was probably meditating; and trying to unlock more doors of consciousness, eventually reaching the highest frequency. So yes, Jesus was enlightened. A lot of things he did were probably stretched over the years, but who knows, maybe with his enlightenment came the power of telekinesis Wink? Maybe that had to do with some of his miracles! Now, I am sure that what Jesus learned through meditation was the knowledge of compassion and goodness, and he tried to get this message across to his audiences.

When he talked about being in heaven with his Father, he was relating the relationship of a father, something familiar so the people could understand, with the feeling of happiness, or what he described as heaven. He preached through goodness that one would be able to experience life, which is the meaning of life, because with goodness comes in return goodness from other people, making life full of more experiences (at least that's my theory, and it's worked so far Very Happy). Now the thing I have been interested in is about Jesus' Resurrection?

Now, today is Easter, so I was thinking about it. OK, I know there was a post somewhere in the OBE general discussion session about what if you were so good at projecting, that when you died, and you found yourself leaving your body, if you could just fly back into your body, and not die? Now, this probably isn't true, but maybe since Jesus was enlightened, that when he died on the cross, he was able to find his body, and enter it again, because maybe he still needed to get one more thing across about enlightenment before he finally went to rest? Or so people would believe it more? This is a kind of far fetched theory, but, it could be possible I guess if you think about it. Well, so that is my basic theory on Jesus and most of the Bible.

But through meditation, and this new sense of faith, but in a different way, I am able to enjoy mass again, but in a different way. I am able to enjoy it more in thinking that Jesus was more of a guru, bringing back his knowledge to help people achieve inner truth. Maybe through having gone to this awesome frequency of all knowing, maybe he planned this all so that the Bible would be written, and people like me would come up with these theories and maybe think differently about the world and life. Maybe he wanted to keep the real meaning hidden and twisted in the poetic language of the Bible, not revealing the real meaning, because if it were all spelled out for us, it wouldn't make us think. Maybe the Bible is a very valuable thinking tool, and it's interesting because it's almost like I made a big circle in my faith, starting back at the beginning, but with a different sense of faith. Now not scared of death, or life, through meditation.

I know this is an extremely long post, and I've been sitting here for quit some time, but if you are here at the bottom, scrolling down to check to see how long this sucker actually is, please just give a little time up, maybe on a rainy day or, a boring day at work just read it, or at least skim it to actually maybe change your perspective on Christianity? This is just my theory, and it could probably be explained better, and there's a lot more that I could say, haha, but these are just some main points that I wanted to talk about. I feel better actually getting this on the forums, and please post what you think, or discussions, or comments!
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR READING!
TONY    
_________________
que tal

[manuel]

One word: paragraphs.

[karnautrahl]

I second that motion. Milk this is virtually unreadable due to the lack of paragraphing or any breaks in the text whatsoever.

Seriously look over RedCatherine's posts for example and other people who post novels regularly. Good examples of decent paragraphing.

[Eol007]

Dear Milk,

As you can see I have given your thread a light edit!

Hope you don't mind?

Happy Easter/Season's best,


Stephen

[milk]

Thank you Eol007, I'm sorry about the paragraphing guys. I was kind of rushed to get all my ideas out because it was late, I should've went back and put them into paragraphs. But thank you for the suggestions!

Tony

[patapouf]

Now, I am sure that what Jesus learned through meditation was the knowledge of compassion and goodness, and he tried to get this message across to his audiences.

It seems that he clearly told us that the most important thing is ''To love everyone like I have loved you''.

Take care,

[malim]

I think Jesus is worshipped as a God these days, because it makes people more supremicist and feel great in the earth, specially whites, Jesus helps reassures them that they are the dominant animal in the world, I say this because its something I have noticed living in the U.S. Many folks are actually athiest inside, This world is very real and physical, if they knew they were more than just physical animals, they would watch what they do and be less evil.  If a survey was conducted on all christians which will never be possible, I think over 40% would not believe in an afterlife.

I'd rather be humble, then haughty.

[DarkQuest]

okay, well I am a christian myself, and i guess i've had similar confusions that you have had, milk.  I started thinking about what i have read in Robert Bruce's "Astral Dynamics".  I remember how he said that there are different levels in the astral world, 7 I believe.  Now he said how the lower levels of it are those that shouldn't be ventured into because it is demonic.  This is what really made me think.

Now you must know how the gift of jesus dying on the cross is eternal life.  well life is over after death obviously, but with how the bible says you end up in heaven by accepting the gift of jesus dying on the cross.  This could mean that by accepting the gift means that you end up in the highest level of the astral world, call it Heaven, and if you choose not to accept it or believe it, then you could end up banished into the lowest level of astral, the demonic, otherwise hell as it would say in the bible.  

This could mean that Jesus came to Earth to teach people that by accepting him means that you end up in the highest level of the astral after death, and not accepting means that you end up in the lowest level of the astral.  This is just my thought about the topic, but i guess nobody will know for sure how it ends up until death.

[Gandalf]

Darkquest_
Your description of what Monroe says in his book is a gross distortion. You should go back and read it again. nobody is 'banished' to 'demonic' realms. People make their own heavens and hells, both of which are false, made from their own religous beliefs or as a result of their characters, as 'like attracts like'. Eventially they 'rise above it' as it were and leave, although this can take a long time, depending on the individual. You are reinterpreting his work to fit in with your christian model of 'divine judgement', which means a gross distortion of his model.

However I DO agree with you that the Christian model shares similarities if only slighty, and it can be moulded to fit, but thats the problem with religions, they contain the essense of the reality but are covered over wth layers and layers of crud which causes all kinds of distortions.

Also, you don't have to wait 'until death'. You can do your best to become great at 'projecting' and find out for yourself now! not just sit back and believe what me or others have to say.. you can find out for yourself.. This is the problem with religions, they want you to learn the creed but not to go and find out yourself. This results in people spouting off about heaven hell et etc who have absolutely no experience of the wider reality.. over time these teachings are distorted more and more until they only contain a distorted vision of the reality.

Doug

[markulous]

I agree with most of what's been said.  Jesus was a great man and someone who I think about and pray to a lot.

With that said, I agree with the idea that there are two Jesus Christ's.  There is the historical Christ, who was born a human, was baptized, taught for at least 3 years, and supposedly died by crucifixion.  Then there is living Christ or Christ consciousness.  This is the Christ I pray to.  It's also a(not the only way by any means) way to speak to God.  Thich Naht Han describes it MUCH better than in do in Living Buddha Living Christ.

From what I have been reading the past few months signs point to things that I suspect.  That while the bible is a good tool, it is not by any means something to follow word for word.  Because not only has it been translated so many different times but it's been heavily edited.  The original New Testament was written in Greek, for the Romans.  And most of the original gospels were destroyed and had to be written again(of course adding a few revisions is not out of the question).

Plus the way the historical Jesus was depicted is probably a huge embellishment.  Reading the gnostic gospels and a book called Holy Blood, Holy Grail, Jesus was probably married and probably had a child.  And while he was as spiritually advanced as Buddha, he probably isn't the ONLY begotten son of God.  

But my "faith" doesn't rest on historical facts.  Like I said I believe in the Living Christ.  Even if Jesus wasn't crucified it doesn't affect my beliefs at all.

[data]

Milk,

You should read this: http://www.truthbeknown.com/origins.htm

Some very pertinent questions are asked as to the origins of Jesus. Personally, I think the historical Jesus is a fabrication to control the credulous.

My own philosophy regarding religious prophet figures is take what they have to give you and move on. There are hundreds of wise and enlightened god-men, I call them the yogis, gurus, and this linage can be traced to the beginning of recorded history. So many of them we don't even know. Jesus is just one of them. It does not matter whether the person existed or not. What matters is what he taught.

However, don't go labeling yourself as Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim. Even if you resonate with all the teachings. Just, take everything you resonate with from each and just move on. They are all their to help you on your path. You have already transcended Christianity. Now transcend the Eastern religions.

When you distill all these religions, you will arrive at pure spirituality. That is simply you are a soul on a journey of discovery and are a part of a vast universal intelligence. Discovery is your true religion. That is:

Learn as much as you can and don't stop learning. Listen to your intuitions, create with your imagination, experience, ask questions and seek answers, realize your dreams, expand. Live!

A person who is not spiritual at all, yet is a person who is content with his life, and really lives their life, is making as much spiritual progress as a spiritual person. He is living his life. That is why it does not matter whether you have a religion or not or a central god figure or not. You just live. That's what were all doing aren't we?

Think of a innocent child full with wonder and excitement about life. Cherishing every moment. Learning every moment. He does not need a religion, or a status in society. He just lives. Be more like that child. That child is the closest to god, you will ever get.

[narfellus]

Interesting article. I'm not one to say whether Christ actually lived or not. I'm inclined to say yes, but i feel that he was just a wonderful, masterful teacher, guru, etc. There have been others as good as or better than him, but unknown. I was raised Christian myself but have since weaned off it. There are many wonderful strengths to christianity though. It exemplifies how to best love thy neighbor unconditionally, and if mankind were to truly adhere to many of its tenets they would be happier. Sadly that's not the case, and the Bible itself is full of selective material and vagueness.

I also don't feel that the bible gives an accurate account of what happens to men and women after death. I've had to do a lot of searching to understand that aspect of life.

[Mikael]

Milk,
Regarding Jesus being enlightened, he could have simply been one of the many mystics that were around at the time, who often used hallucinogens to experience the divine.  This doesn't neccessarily render the experience invalid, (just as to gain an aerial view of a city requires the unusual state of elevation via aircraft) but drugs could have been the route he used, rather than meditation.

Regarding Mary as a virgin, there is a theory which i think makes a lot of sense, which is that Jesus was conceived in the usual way, but when Jesus was born, the moon (or whatever reference points astrology uses) was seen in the constellation Virgo, and since at the time astrology and the night sky was important to people and their understanding of how the order of the world worked, this would have been significant enough for Jesus' parents to remember.  Eventually over time, and probably to aid the relevant gospel writers' political agenda (i.e. to help gain support/members for the believers in Jesus who were being banned from the synagogues and generally treated badly by mainstream Judaism at the time) this became distorted to 'Jesus was born of a virgin'.

I think you have quite an interesting theory there, and as far as most biblical scholars are concerned, Jesus did believe he had a divine purpose in some way or another, and this is just one possible explanation of why he may have believed this.  

I should say is that you should be careful not to become too involved in your own ideas for the (probably not fully conscious) purpose of making Christianity relevant again.

Good luck with your faith, your initial situation was definitely something that i can relate to.

[Dr Anti-Christ]

Jesus is a myth created by a degenerate Roman empire to hold there subjects in line. It was no mistake the first official church was called the Catholic{universal] one. Today 1700 of years of Jesus has brought the world to the brink of totally insanity. By there fruits you shall know them, not by what they claim.

The bibble itself is a masonic handbook not to be taken literally that part was just ment for the masses.

[James S]

Jesus is a myth created by a degenerate Roman empire to hold there subjects in line...
...The bibble itself is a masonic handbook not to be taken literally that part was just ment for the masses.

Oooh goody, another absolutist!


Ok, Dr. Anti,
For the sake of making this discussion a bit more interesting, please provide us with something to substantiate your bold statements, and please be prepared for others to want to rip it to pieces.

Blessings,
James.

[Dr Anti-Christ]

Please provide us with facts of virgins births, dead half rotten bodies coming back to life and people floating back up to heaven, people walking on water, turning water into wine, the seas parting, the sun standing still for three days. All of humanity coming from only two people. And all the other wacky claims that Christianity claims as real.

Jesus is a myth created by a degenerate Roman empire to hold there subjects in line...
...The bibble itself is a masonic handbook not to be taken literally that part was just ment for the masses.

Oooh goody, another absolutist!


Ok, Dr. Anti,
For the sake of making this discussion a bit more interesting, please provide us with something to substantiate your bold statements, and please be prepared for others to want to rip it to pieces.

Blessings,
James.

[James S]

You're still not telling us why you said what you said.

I'll make my point a little clearer for you, good Doctor.

Read the other posts on this thread. Not only is nobody here bashing any religious philosophy, people are giving reasons behind why they feel or think the way they do, and no-one's made any absolute statements saying this is the truth or that is wrong.

So far all I can see from your posts is you're some disgruntled anti-christian. I'll tell you now to save you wasting time - we don't like preachers here, no matter who's side they're on. Don't try pushing any kind of dogma on us.

If you want to be part of these discussions, you need to put forward your thoughts, feelings and experiences. Not just that you do or don't believe something, but why.

James.

[markulous]

Please provide us with facts of virgins births, dead half rotten bodies coming back to life and people floating back up to heaven, people walking on water, turning water into wine, the seas parting, the sun standing still for three days. All of humanity coming from only two people. And all the other wacky claims that Christianity claims as real,

Please provide us with facts that these things did NOT happen, and I will be the first to stand up and say they weren't real.

[Dr Anti-Christ]

If Christianity is true then my simple questions could be directly answered. And not just have "faith" Christianity makes the claim it is truth therefore the burden of proof is upon Christianity.

[Beth]

Hello all!

I can see a serious misfire of communication in the making.  May I interject?  No???...well, too bad!!!  

Dr. Anti:
I cannot speak for James, but what I think he is saying has less to do with the object of your critique, i.e., Christianity, and more to do with the way you are going about it!  The hostility in your tone, or lack of finesse (whichever!) does nothing to support an argument as to 'why' your position is the case.  In other words, putting more emphasis on your words does not make them more convincing!!  As James pointed out, preachers--whether 'for' or 'against' any particular religion are not welcome here.   If you want to make such a claim you need to support it some other way than to rely so heavily upon an appeal to the emotions!  WHY is Jesus a myth??? What makes this the case?  

Markulous:
There is a distinct difference in what you are requesting of Dr. Anti and what James is requesting...And Markulous, your request is just as absurd and empty of substance as Dr. Anti's claim.  

Think about it!  Requesting of Dr. Anti to "provide facts that these things did NOT happen" makes so sense at all, and moreover, does NOT in any way 'prove' that they did.  

In FACT, the 'lack of proof' or 'absence of evidence' already exists which prohibits biblical scripture from belonging to the sphere of 'history' or of 'provable fact' (science.)   Biblical scripture belongs in the realm of literature in general, and religious literature in specific.  The only importance that biblical scripture has that pertains to 'history' or 'provable fact' is the phenomenon that occured with the development of what has become Christianity through humanity's ability to turn myth into reality.  

At this stage of humanity's evolution, the use of myths, metaphors and symbols are fundamental to the understanding and communication of our individual and our collective experiences.  

Long before the bible was ever written, other myths served the same purposes, and at some time in the future, new myths will eventually replace the bible.  

Granted, the biblical myths have enjoyed centuries of the 'bestselling myths' but this DOES NOT make the myths TRUE!!! What is does do, however, is reinforce the power of myth in general and at the same time illustrate how other cultural influences e.g., political and economic, have used myth as a tool to empower particular agendas.

Think about these things.  Read up on all sides of an issue.  Use your own MIND.  Matters of the heart are not always logical or rational, but matters of the mind demand to be!

Peace,
Beth

[markulous]

Beth,

I wasn't being completely serious.  I don't expect anyone to provide factual evidence of something like that.  It would be absurd.  I was simply making a point that there are a lot of things that cannot be proven or disproven and that "factual evidence" is not particularly important.[/i]

[Beth]

Markulous,

The topic of religion can be a very touchy subject and unfortunately your particular comment is one that I have heard many times before!  

Now that you have clarified your position, I humbly withdraw my critique.

Peace be with you!
Beth  

[markulous]

 That's okay!  I was kind of vague to begin with.

[Leannain]

i think jesus was an ordinary men descendent from a royal family,and that he wanted to become the king of jews.after 2000 years of altered history we dont know nothing ;o not even wehre his body is .

[Beth]

Leannain,

If we know nothing, upon what do you base your opinion that he was even an ordinary man of a royal family who sought to be a king?   The only evidence we do have of him is found in the biblical narratives, and those stories do not support your line of thinking.  

Why read something more into the myth than the story itself provides?...for that is exactly what it is--a story.  

Just curious...

Peace,
Beth