Who Jesus really was?

[Leannain]

true .i don't know about that man.but what's taught in  school's  Jesus is supposed to be descendant from David? wasn't David a king?. wasn't Jesus crowned by the Romans as king of the Jews?. i dunno it could all be myth i don't really care,the question was "who you think Jesus really was?"  a king is by no means "an ordinary men" but  modern people think he was a god,i think compared to a god a king is a normal person.

OK to sum it up for me Jesus was just an ordinary men who had the luck of starting the greatest cult ever =)

[Beth]

Leannain,

I see.  

I guess being a normal man, albeit a errant kind of king--and myth or no--is a much more logical way to view the matter.

I wonder though, whether "luck" had anything to do with the development of the cult...hmmmm....

...yes, most definately.  A lot of luck and a lot of carefully executed machinations...but certainly not on the part of anyone living in the first century!

Oh, well!   Just my own musings.....

Peace be with you Leannain,
Beth

[Leannain]

i agree =)

[Projector]

Jesus IS God..

[Projector]

But anyways why do you people care so much about it? EVEN if it was all made up as some of you would say who cares? Jesus in the bible taught many life lessons that should be incorperated into our every day lives.

Whats so wrong with just being good and following something thats pratically a handbook of being a good citizen?








-The Projector-

[Beth]

Projector:  I do care.

There is a tremendous amount of wisdom to be found in the Bible. The ethics, morals, parables and other kernals of knowledge should always be viewed as being a lending hand to those who strive for a higher path in life.  Accepting that Adam, Eve, Abraham, Moses, Daniel, Jesus, Peter, Paul. etc., were all fictional characters used through the medium of "story" should not deprive the writings from their higher purpose.  

"Jesus" does not have to be "God" for the Bible to maintain its worth.  Jesus only has to be God for dogma's sake.  In fact, the character Jesus taught against such dogma (and many other things that dogma has ignored.)  

The need for Jesus to have been a man, or a God, is milk.  Milk is for children.  To be able to look deeper into the 'meanings' of the texts is the meat of the matter; and this is only for those mature enough to handle it.  

Hebrews 5:11-14:
We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain because you are slow to learn. In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God's word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

There is so much more to the Bible than a surface reading of the texts allow.  To stop there is to miss the most important parts of the messages.  The writers of the bible were not historians.  They were seekers just like us.

And as this forum represents on a daily basis, there is so much more to our reality than what appears upon the collective surface.  We few do not stop there...we cannot...everything that we are becoming is begging for more.   The writers of the bible were no different.

Peace,
Beth

[Dr Anti-Christ]

Yes lots of great things in the bible like yawehs orders to the hebrews to genocide whole nations and jesus commanding for those naughty unbelievers to be slayen before him. Stories like what happened went on with Lot daughter and chopping one into pieces after handing her over to be gang raped by a angry mob. The list is a longer one, I feel the spirit. To be honest if hardcore christian where in power you would all be very dead. And spare me the there not real christian tripe for they are.

[Beth]

Anti,

Spiritual seekers seek those things of the spirit, whether in scripture or in life itself.  

As ugly as these stories are, pick up any daily newpaper and see if you don't read of the same kind of things happening in the world today.

The bible is an ancient collection of fiction and mythology, created through the tools of creative writing.  When deeper meanings are lifted from those same pages, through the use of allegory, metaphor and symbol, then those atrocities and perversions come to represent very different things.  

The daily news is not, however, written metaphorically or symbolically.  The daily news is the actual continuing historical account of the human race.  

If you want to be justified in your indignant outrage....this fact would be a very worthy reason to do so.

Beth

[Gandalf]

Sorry 'Dr Anti-christ' but as soon as you mentioned the 'degenerative roman empire' I stopped reading your post as it showed you have no real understanding of that period of history, only the distorted mish-mash of christian propaganda and cold war rhetoric distilled from watching 1950's hollywood epics. The Roman empire was not 'degenerative', it was in fact a highly dynamic, multi-faceted and complex period of history that your stereotyped, misinformed blanket statements do not take account of. I know as I have a degree in ancient history; sorry I don't want to come across like I'm sounding off, but I get really annoyed with this misinformed stereotyped image of Ancient Rome which I keep coming across from people who watch hollywood epics and take them as fact.

My favourite line i keep hearing is 'only an empire as degenerative as the roman empire could kill christ'... except that the *biblical christ* was not killed by the roman empire, it was the *historical christ*.. and there is a BIG difference! btw when I say 'historical' even that is a long shot as he may not have existed at all.

As I have said before, the christ story fits in as a continuation and refinement of the age old 'god-man' narrative beloved of pagan mythology as is the classic 'death and regeneration' theme; these themes are classic pagan motifs going way back before christianity, particularly in the ancient near east. However the old death and rebirth motif can also be found in celtic paganism and almost all other agricultural based cultures.

Doug

[Doch]

Jesus IS God..

I do not doubt that this is a reality in your mind. I personally do not believe that JC physically existed as there is absolutely no evidence for his physical existence except for that of heresay.

Using logical deduction, I am unable to come to any other conclusion, other than that the New Testament was built upon pure myth, bearing all the hallmarks of the earlier pagan beliefs.

I'll include an essay, which IMO presents a fairly well grounded, logical and concise argument representative of my view.

http://www.cosmoetica.com/B125-DES76.htm

[Leannain]

Einstein is god

-__-

[Projector]

Jesus IS God..

I do not doubt that this is a reality in your mind. I personally do not believe that JC physically existed as there is absolutely no evidence for his physical existence except for that of heresay.

Using logical deduction, I am unable to come to any other conclusion, other than that the New Testament was built upon pure myth, bearing all the hallmarks of the earlier pagan beliefs.

I'll include an essay, which IMO presents a fairly well grounded, logical and concise argument representative of my view.

http://www.cosmoetica.com/B125-DES76.htm

This is what bugs me, kids nowadays are starting to use 'logic' to disprove God which is a total waste of time and effort for the fact that proving something unworldly and as spiritual as God is a waste of time.








-The Projector-

[Projector]

Projector: I do care.

There is a tremendous amount of wisdom to be found in the Bible. The ethics, morals, parables and other kernals of knowledge should always be viewed as being a lending hand to those who strive for a higher path in life. Accepting that Adam, Eve, Abraham, Moses, Daniel, Jesus, Peter, Paul. etc., were all fictional characters used through the medium of "story" should not deprive the writings from their higher purpose.

"Jesus" does not have to be "God" for the Bible to maintain its worth. Jesus only has to be God for dogma's sake. In fact, the character Jesus taught against such dogma (and many other things that dogma has ignored.)

The need for Jesus to have been a man, or a God, is milk. Milk is for children. To be able to look deeper into the 'meanings' of the texts is the meat of the matter; and this is only for those mature enough to handle it.

Hebrews 5:11-14:
We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain because you are slow to learn. In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God's word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.

There is so much more to the Bible than a surface reading of the texts allow. To stop there is to miss the most important parts of the messages. The writers of the bible were not historians. They were seekers just like us.

And as this forum represents on a daily basis, there is so much more to our reality than what appears upon the collective surface. We few do not stop there...we cannot...everything that we are becoming is begging for more. The writers of the bible were no different.

Peace,
Beth

Yes, I agree to some extent. The bible as unbelieveable teachings and should be considered a teaching impliment.

"The need for Jesus to have been a man, or a God, is milk. Milk is for children. To be able to look deeper into the 'meanings' of the texts is the meat of the matter; and this is only for those mature enough to handle it."

No, you see those are not able to grasp the full contex of the bible is clearly unable to comprehend the main teaching which is:

If you are not able to allow the LORD into your life and understand that God once walked this earth proves that his children are ignorant. And no matter how often you read the bible or enjoy the teachings then it will not matter in the end.

Look, you might understand the true meaning behind all the parables and decifer every word but if you can not see the truth behind the teachings then why bother?







-The Projector-

[Doch]

Jesus IS God..

I do not doubt that this is a reality in your mind. I personally do not believe that JC physically existed as there is absolutely no evidence for his physical existence except for that of heresay.

Using logical deduction, I am unable to come to any other conclusion, other than that the New Testament was built upon pure myth, bearing all the hallmarks of the earlier pagan beliefs.

I'll include an essay, which IMO presents a fairly well grounded, logical and concise argument representative of my view.

http://www.cosmoetica.com/B125-DES76.htm

This is what bugs me, kids nowadays are starting to use 'logic' to disprove God which is a total waste of time and effort for the fact that proving something unworldly and as spiritual as God is a waste of time.







-The Projector-

Anyone can cast a blanket statement such as this one. And I must say that it isn't very credible IMO. We ( well most of us) use logic and reason on a daily basis. I have absolutely no reason to place any amount of faith in Christianity. There's absolutely no evidence to support such extraordinary claims. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and the  Bible, particularly the NT, leave a lot to be desired IMO.

[Doch]

Anti,

Spiritual seekers seek those things of the spirit, whether in scripture or in life itself.  

As ugly as these stories are, pick up any daily newpaper and see if you don't read of the same kind of things happening in the world today.

The bible is an ancient collection of fiction and mythology, created through the tools of creative writing.  When deeper meanings are lifted from those same pages, through the use of allegory, metaphor and symbol, then those atrocities and perversions come to represent very different things.  

The daily news is not, however, written metaphorically or symbolically.  The daily news is the actual continuing historical account of the human race.  

If you want to be justified in your indignant outrage....this fact would be a very worthy reason to do so.

Beth

Really? And you are prepared to demonstrate these deeper meanings, Beth?