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Author Topic: Whos gonna save us?  (Read 2790 times)
Wronski Feint
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« on: May 19, 2006, 00:28:30 »

I often wonder how much of a role god and jesus is gonna play in the next 'apocalypse' (if there will be one).   What if god and jesus are tired of fighting for us and is going ot let us fend for ourselves.  I guess my biggest question is: Is there a prophacy or any documentation or predictions about a human savior that will stop the end and finaly make us see our mistakes?

     And then again what if there dosnt have to be a prophecy, what if its just a matter of sombody(or a group of people) making a choice to save us all.  Can a human really convince god to give us enough time to get rid of old Luci and change our ways?

    I know some of you dont beleive in god, or the whole end of the world thing, but if you have any thoughts on this as if it were going ot happen, id be glad to hear it.  The mroe views, the better.
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James S
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« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2006, 03:41:37 »

I feel a lot of the problems "humanity" experience are because of beliefs that are waiting for "higher" beings separate from ourselves to come and fix everything up.

What would happen if people started taking responsibility for saving themselves?

I know the phrase "God helps those who helps themselves" does not actually apear anywhere in the Bible. Rather, the bible tries to tell us that we are pretty much useless on our own, and that we need to look to external forces to help us - eg. God, Jesus.

But what if those verses are metaphorical in nature? "God" representing the light and love within us, and "man" representing the ego self that seeks to keep us away from the light.

Take that idea then to a possible prophecy about our salvation. It might well describe a time when humanity as a whole starts to "wake up", become aware of the inner light within all of us. Then God truly would be coming back to save us.

Well, that's my take on it.  smiley

Blessings,
James.
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« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2006, 03:41:37 »

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ubiquitous
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« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2006, 00:26:28 »

The bible was the birth of mass fiction and it's played it's course though the authors must be congratulated on its infectious properties.

The part god and jesus will play out in a potenial nuclear war or natural disaster is the same as it all ways has been, SOD ALL!! in real terms. If its a nuclear war propaganda at best in a christian state.

A Ubiquitous Almighty force that sprouts the variety of food we need, that is in our our thoughts, that reenergises us when we sleep that changes dna structure as all beings evolve to adapt to there surroundings, to have developed sight to see what it has created and now creates through us and you want to talk about when its gunna end and what part this stupid little ficticious T^^T called jesus is going to play mmmmmm word up religion..not.
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Wronski Feint
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« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2006, 16:37:12 »

I didnt mean to sound as if I was being totally strict to the christian point of view for the end.  Wheather it be a natural disaster, neuclear war, a spiritual awakening, or a religious comeback that will end us, its gonna happen. I just wanted to know what you guys thought about human(s) being able to do somthing about it before its too late, maybe even stop the whole thing.  And also if there were any phopacies/predictions made by people of any or no faith to say so.
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"Come and See"
So I looked, and behold a dark angel.  And the name of him was Life, and Hell fell before him.
And power was given to him over the whole of the earth, to clense with mind, with sword, with light and by the love of the earth.
Beth
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« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2006, 19:44:05 »

Somewhere on an old thread I posted my response to this issue, but for whatever it is worth, here it is again! grin

First, for anything Biblical, I always go back to the original Greek to see what the Greek authors really said (a lot can be lost in translation from language to language.)

The last book of the New Testament in English is REVELATION. In Greek, the name of this book is APOCALYPSIS. (I am not even going to try to interpret the many details of this book, but rather, just the first sentence, which gives us quite a bit of information by itself!)

The word APOCALYPSE does not mean END OF THE WORLD. That is just another Christian misrepresentation.

This word breaks down as follows: APO=off, away, apart from, aside + KALYPTOS=covering, envelop, conceal
Together the word means: "to uncover," "to reveal." So, from Greek to English the word does not mean "end of the world" rather, it means "revelation" or "to reveal."  

Revelation 1:1 reads:
Quote
"The revelation of Jesus Christ, given by God, to show to his followers what must take place quickly."

The last book of the Bible is therefore the writers way of revealing the secrets of Jesus Christ (not merely the secrets pertaining to the end of the world.)

Looking at this first verse, we find the name "Jesus" which literally means "salvation."
We also find the word "Christ" which means "anointment" and implies "to accept responsibility."
These two names, coupled with the phrase "must take place quickly" are all give-aways as to what this book is all about!

Since these words were penned nearly 2,000 years ago, I think it is quite safe to say--is indeed imperative that we say--that Christianity's interpretation of this "revelation" is WRONG, if for no other reason, we are all still here and many peope are still waiting for "IT to happen."

So, if we want to lend any truth value to this book, what was it that needed to take place "quickly" that does not appear to have taken place yet???

I truly can't say for sure entirely, but I strongly suspect that should anyone be able to decipher all of the many symbols and esoteric references, it would be something like what James said.

The only thing that I would change about this is the implication that this is necessarily a collective event. I think that it is an individual event that can indeed happen right now, is in fact happening right now, to someone, somewhere on this planet. Moreover, "it needs to happen" as soon as possible for EVERYONE.

Personally, I have been through many "apocalypses" in my life. Different stages through which I have had to "leave behind" a great many things that I thought were important at the time, but I eventually learned that hanging on to them stood in the way of my spiritual growth, e.g. various relationships and even the religion of my roots (Christianity.)

While in the midst of some of these stages, I truly thought that "my world was coming to an end!"  But the sun always came up the next day, and I had to put one foot in front of the other and keep moving. In essence, it was only "the end of the world" as I had always known it.

So, the "revelation" is still much like James said, that is, we must discover that we are all "light," that this world is "transitory" for our true selves, and that we should all "love one another," "honor each other" and "take responsibility" for ourselves.

To do this, we must set aside "egoism" and all of its nasty mechinations, e.g. hate, manipulation of others, desire to possess things as a remedy to unhappiness, and most importantly, the tendency to blame other people for our miserable lives and then ironically, expect those same people, or others, to "fix our misery." Whether this be family members, friends, or social institutions, people that fail to take personal responsibility for thier lives are always looking for someone else to "save them."

Religion has set itself up as a perfect foil for that very purpose: through manipulating the hearts and minds of humans, it keeps people coming to them for their "salvation." The whole focus on being born as sinful people, and Jesus having died for the sins of all mankind, forever, just removes all personal responsibility from the individual and provides an ultimate "sacrificial lamb" for all believers. This also puts the Church and the religion in a very powerful position to further manipulate believers for a vast array of other things, e.g. dictating morality for all humans and electing presidents of very powerful countries. Human egoism created institutionalized religion, and humans with huge ego's know best how to use religion to their advantage.

(Oh dear!:shock: I am digressing...sorry 'bout that :redface:...anyway... )

The ego is self-indulgent and will protect itself, no matter what it has to do. So the ego must be reined in...our spiritual self needs to use the ego as a tool of survival, not the other way around, i.e. the ego using "spirituality" as a tool of justification, as religion would have it.

When we discover these things, we will be well on our way to attaining "our salvation." In other words, my interpretation of the first verse of Revelation is very personal: the "revelation" of my "salvation" (Jesus) depends upon my "taking responsibility for" (Christ),  my life "as soon as possible." This life and my responsibility for it, was given to me by God. The quicker I understand this, the quicker I will see my salvation.

So, to me, this is not something that will happen to us from the "outside" per se, rather, outside events may bring about certain changes in our lives, but the process itself is an internal/spiritual "end of the world as we have always known it."

I am now 47 years old, and looking back, I am very pleased that most of those "old worlds" did indeed pass away! As a result, I feel that I have come much closer to "God" in the process.

Finally, it would be a big mistake for me to think that all of my "apocalyses" have come to an end. In fact, I truly hope not!  As painful as some of them are, these things are my "growing experiences" through which I hope to one day--when I take my last breath in this body--be transformed back into that which I now know myself to be: LIGHT.

~Beth

p.s. Yes Mustardseed, this was another "long one" but unraveling these things takes time. In my opinion, it is because of "easy, pat answers" that religion has managed to mess things up so much...
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« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2006, 19:44:05 »



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Layla
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« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2006, 16:51:04 »

Well. I did research..Again! Getting the English Translation of the Quran from my Mom.

It says that one of the major signs of Judgement day is when Jesus is going to come and save us from Dajjal (Doing Research on it). After, he does that hes going to set us straight. And when he leaves, things will eventually return to the way they are now.

The translation is filled with hard, difficult words. So, I just put it in words that would be easier to explain. Theres more about it though.
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Enoch
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« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2006, 21:49:27 »

I often wonder how much of a role god and jesus is gonna play in the next 'apocalypse' (if there will be one).   What if god and jesus are tired of fighting for us and is going ot let us fend for ourselves.  I guess my biggest question is: Is there a prophacy or any documentation or predictions about a human savior that will stop the end and finaly make us see our mistakes?

     And then again what if there dosnt have to be a prophecy, what if its just a matter of sombody(or a group of people) making a choice to save us all.  Can a human really convince god to give us enough time to get rid of old Luci and change our ways?

    I know some of you dont beleive in god, or the whole end of the world thing, but if you have any thoughts on this as if it were going ot happen, id be glad to hear it.  The mroe views, the better.

If you dont believe in god at this point your a lost cause...LOL sorry but its true..Every religion and culture in the world believes in god in one form or another. Sept atheists...
There is only one way we will be saved.....through ourselves. No religion and no amount of brainwashing will change that...there is only one way to be saved you MUST see yourself and realize....We live in the midst of all evil right here and now..the only way to overcome that is self realization...
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