The Astral Pulse
News: http://www.astralpulse.com/aup.html. Acceptable Use Policy for the forums. Please read and ensure that you respect these policies. Thank you.

If you wish the join The Astral Pulse, please create an account and then email myself or one of the moderators your username and email address (do not send us your password please) and we will activate your account for you. 
If it's been over 24 hours and you still haven't been approved, please send another email, we are just people too and sometimes we get busy.
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_chat/member_registration_requiring_approval-t42962.0.html

We apologize for any inconveniences this may cause, but it's the last resort we have to fighting the spam for now.
 
*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register. September 22, 2021, 00:01:35


Login with username, password and session length


Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: When God was a Woman  (Read 4701 times)
Mohamed
Astral Energy 2
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 91


View Profile
« on: September 23, 2003, 22:20:47 »

"including the apalling sexism that has sprung up from the third monolithic religion, Islam."

If you read the Qur'an carefully, you will see that there is no sexism in Islam.  Both Men and Women are equal.

"....formless, genderless truth that...."

If you study Islam, you can see that this is our view of God.  God does not have a gender, nor does God have form.

Mohamed
Logged

“Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before We clove them asunder, and We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?”
(The Qur'an, 21:30)
Tisha
Astral Energy 5
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1207


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2003, 22:26:01 »

I agree with you, Mohamed.  But somehow, the appalling sexism referred to in this article DID emerge in middle-eastern Islamic cultures, and runs rampant today.  These cultures use Islam as their excuse to oppress women, even though there is no basis for it in the Quran.  I don't quite understand how this came to be.  Do you know what happened?
Logged

Tisha
The Astral Pulse
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2003, 22:26:01 »

logoVisit the website of Astral Pulse creator Adrian Cooper.

Home of the best selling book Our Ultimate Reality.

Astral Projection, Metaphysics and many other subjects.

 Logged
Mohamed
Astral Energy 2
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 91


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2003, 23:06:27 »

This is true Tisha, though, I would rather you have said Arabic cultures.  Before Islam was revealed to the Arabs, men took women as their form of pleasure and house keeping servant.  Women were not looked upon very highly.  It was not uncommon to see a man with 6, 8, or even 10 wives.  Rich men had even more that this!

When Islam was revealed to the Arabs, they did not wish to follow it because of the fair and equal balance of Man and Women.  Now a days, countries such a Saudi Arabia, use Islam as a way to make women feel lower than men, but they never have any direct Qur'anic text to justify their claims.  They say anything and tell Women that this is how it is.  Women except this because they are not educated to the extent that men are in countries like Saudi Arabia, but those few women who are, know that they can be just as strong and perhaps even stronger (politically, physically ect.) than a man!

Hope this helps,

Mohamed
Logged

“Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before We clove them asunder, and We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?”
(The Qur'an, 21:30)
travelinbob
Astral Energy 3
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 140

robertochahin
View Profile Email
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2003, 17:02:29 »

If God, The Universe, The Whole, or whatever you want to call it had to be athropomorphic, and it had to have a gender, it would be female.
Logged
eeb
Astral Energy 3
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 139


View Profile Email
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2003, 17:44:13 »

When God would be a woman, he would ´ve made the man to bear children...
Logged

Consistent desire and intent are the key to change
The Astral Pulse
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2003, 17:44:13 »



 Logged
Novice
Astral Energy 4
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 889



View Profile
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2003, 16:58:55 »

I found this article very interesting. Thank you for posting it Tisha.

Personally, I've always 'felt' like God is genderless. I've never felt comfortable describing God as male only or female only. I think God encompasses qualities of both genders equally and balanced. I think this same description can be used to describe all of the sages of the past as well. Their bodies may have a gender, but their characteristics and reactions balance both male and female qualities.

However, societies and religions tend to only recognize/worship one facet of him/her. To me, this is seeing only part of the picture. I don't like to refer to God as It, though (a tad bit impersonal for me). So when I pray, I address God as Father/Mother (yep, I say them both together).

Just my 2 cents on the topic!
Logged

Reality is what you perceive it to be.
Mustardseed
Astral Energy 5
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1366



View Profile
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2003, 20:10:29 »

I say with all the girls

When God made man.....she was only kiddin'
Logged

Words.....there was a time when I believed in words!
Lighthouse
Astral Energy 3
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 404


281475148 cosmicbuffet
View Profile WWW
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2004, 13:09:11 »

Tisha,

I joined this forum a little late to see this article when you first posted it.  Thank you. [Cheesy]

--Kerri
Logged

http://www.DivineWithin.com - Uncovering the Divine Within
http://www.worldawakened.com - World Awakened
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/worldawakened - World Awakened Talk Radio
http://www.innercirclepublishing.com - InnerCircle Publishing
Gandalf
Astral Energy 5
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1459



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2004, 15:43:15 »

Hi Tisha_
Thanks for the article.
IMV 'god', which is genderless and any male/female aspects are just suitable bridges for us to 'close the gap', btw I also dont view 'god' in a monotheistic fashion but rather in the pantheistic one where the term 'god' = 'the All'. God is therefor not a person as such.

From the perspective of an historian, I dont buy all this stuff about an ancient universal 'earth mother' worhipped by everyone in the past, across the board, before the evil women haters took over.

This is a feminist fantasy. In reality it was indeed the case that local mother goddesses were held in high regard by many ancient peoples, along with other gods and goddesses, but the statement that there was any kind of universal earth mother deity who was usurped worldwide by male orientated god figures is just fantasy.

Part of this old feminist fantasy details how how human society reached a point when it could go either way, towards male orientated religion or female, and it chose the male, with bad consequences for everyone... there is absolutly no evidence for this at all.

The post feminist era has exploded all of these myths along with another popular one where some people state that in a matriarchal society there would be no conflicts. Anthropology has laid this one to rest as well.

The post feminist era promotes that men and women ARE different after all, *equal* but *different*. ie 'Men are from mars, women are from Venus' an important book which details the fundamental difference between the way men and women think.

Anyway, Im way off topic again, but basically I agree that many religions are intepreted using a male bias, this has been the case for a long time, esp with the monotheistic religions, but we should not follow this to the extent of falling into the old feminist fantasy of an ancient universal mother worship in pre-history.; In fact various goddess and god worship has always been around, even if the *emphases* seems to have been more on the female aspects *in some areas* in the past.

Douglas

PS check out your local anthropology or ancient history department for more details on current thinking on this issue




Logged

"It is to Scotland that we look for our idea of civilisation." -- Voltaire.
lifebreath
Astral Energy 2
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 76


View Profile Email
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2004, 17:46:20 »

Gandalf - you are right on topic ...

While I agree that the feminine has not always been integrated well into our understanding of God, I thinks it's a huge mistake to swing from one pole to the other, in a reactionary mode, which is what, imo, the author has done. Talk about bias! ... "This, these homoerotic, testosterone-ridden zealots did."

Here, you've got a woman doing the very thing she is accusing the "these homoerotic, testosterone-ridden zealots" of doing, just in reverse! Namely, she is fanatically attempting to stamp out the Male aspect of Deity and reestablish (if you can really call it that, as gandalf pointed out) the Female Goddess as supreme!

Everything in nature speaks of dynamic interplay of male/female, hard/soft, active/passive, force/form - syzygies. The Jewish scripture tells of God creating humans in "His" image. But what is that image? "Male and Female they were created!" Male AND Female is the image or reflection of God. In all the various mystery and esoteric traditions, you have this truth respresented - the Sun is male, the moon (or earth) is female, the Yin and Yang, etc. Even Christianity (admittedly biased toward the male aspect) recognizes the fact, however obliquely, in venerating Mary (the mother of Jesus and the Church), MOTHER church, the church (or body of believers) as The Bride and God as the Bridegroom.

The Jewish name of God, the Tetragramaton, Yod-He-Vod-He, represents this fundemental truth. Looking at the first two letters, the "Yod" is the male principle, or active force, and the "He" (ironically enough with the english spelling of the letter) represents the female principle, or contstraining form. Together, they generate manifested existence. Also, the Yod (male principle) combines with "he-vod-he," EVE, the female principle to form the complete Name.

Thus, perhaps the best anthropomorphism would be androgynous. Or, you can simply look at the imprint of God in Nature and find the same thing. Why do we pit one against the other?
Logged
Jenadots
Astral Energy 3
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 344

Jenadots@aol.com
View Profile Email
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2004, 00:09:31 »

Hi, everyone.  I have been reading Sylvia Browne's latest book on this very subject.  She says the original Genesis chapters say "we" created man and woman in "our" image in that if there were no female aspect to God, there would be no image to make a woman in.

Anyway, it is interesting reading and doesn't have anything to do with feminism.  Rather it speaks of God as a balanced being with both a male and a female God.  

Interesting reading.  I recommend it to everyone.
Logged
findtruth
Guest
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2004, 00:24:16 »

I call, the female aspect of The Great Divine Prescence, or whatever you call it, the Goddess.  In my experience, I need both the Goddess AND the God or the Great Thing That Be Out There, to feel complete.[Wink]
Logged
Aristoles
Astral Energy 2
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 77


View Profile Email
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2004, 09:34:16 »

First of all,eggs arent alive are they?
But sperms are,which means men are actually the source of life.
Now that we cleared that up,why would a god limit itself to one gender?I mean,that is so much bull!Just forget about god or goddess and simply call it a Deity.Waha
Logged
Lighthouse
Astral Energy 3
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 404


281475148 cosmicbuffet
View Profile WWW
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2004, 01:39:34 »

I sent a copy of Tisha's original post to my husband a while ago and here was his response to it:

I believe that there came a point in history when religion began to be used as a potent weapon or tool of control.

Prior to the rise of organized religions, religion actually served a purpose, and it seems from the article you quote, that it was woman based, which makes sense.  Mother Earth, right?!?!

Later, the religions became, in my opinion, perversions of the very teachings they quoted.

So, the simple language of Christ's teachings, which I would summarize as the golden rule, becomes organized Christianity's statement that "you will go to hell unless you accept that Christ died for our sins."

Meanwhile, by definition, Christ's teachings predated his "death" right?  So, he never tought this.  Only the people who wanted to use Christ as a weapon created this bogosity.  

In other words, I never saw anything in the New Testament where Christ himself went around teaching that he was going to die for our sins, or am I wrong?
This is all later day interpretation.

So, my argument is that current Christianity is NOT what Christ himself taught, and in fact misses the point of Christ.

What a bogosity to say that the religion is based on blind acceptance that this person died for our sins.  It should be his teachings that count.

Logged

http://www.DivineWithin.com - Uncovering the Divine Within
http://www.worldawakened.com - World Awakened
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/worldawakened - World Awakened Talk Radio
http://www.innercirclepublishing.com - InnerCircle Publishing
James S
Astral Energy 5
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2840



View Profile
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2004, 01:49:27 »

"Meanwhile, by definition, Christ's teachings predated his "death" right? So, he never tought this. Only the people who wanted to use Christ as a weapon created this bogosity. "

What stunningly simple reasoning!

It amazes me how much time bible scholars spend raking through the bible with fine tooth combs to extract some great meaning out of each and every little word of verse, yet I bet this very basic concept would be hotly refuted.

James.
Logged

Gandalf
Astral Energy 5
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1459



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2004, 11:46:38 »

While agree with you James, that the above was an example of very simple reasoning, there IS actually a valid argument that the whole resurrection idea was NOT part of Jesus' original teachings.
Many bible scholars agree on this (mainly from the 'jesus seminar' camp) while of course others disagree.

However, we have only a little evidence of what Jesus ACTUALLY taught (sermon on the mount, a few parables and that’s about it), while the rest of it is by those who came after him, claiming to be speaking for him, such as his disciples, but we cannot take it for granted that they never injected their own ideas once Jesus was gone, that’s the nature of humanity.
Most of the available evidence suggests that Jesus' early supporters were not concerned with his death, it was what he taught when alive that was important; the resurrection idea was grafted on later, quite early on I might add.
Now, while the resurrection idea is a great ideology, it is not particular to Christianity, you have to remember the cultural context in which Christianity grew up in, esp. once it was exported out of Judea.
The whole death/rebirth concept of a god dying and being reborn to conquer death for his/her followers is a VERY common pagan motif, esp. in eastern religion. cf Baal, Mithras, Isis, Osiris etc
The early Christians felt the need to add a similar element to Christian mythology to give Jesus the same kind of death/rebirth weight that other savior gods already had.
For those familiar with pagan traditions, the pagan influences in Christianity are blatant, however, conservatives do not like to hear this.
Don't get me wrong, the death/rebirth idea is a beautiful piece of ideology/theology and serves as the core of the Christian message, however, it appears likely that it was never part of the *original* Christian message; the reason it is such a nice bit of theology is that it was already tried and tested in other pagan traditions and had long resonated with people, it still does.

You would say 'but this is the very CORE of the Christian message. I would agree with you, it is the very core of Christianity as we understand it today; what I am suggesting is that it was never part of Jesus' teachings and was grafted on soon after his death; the reason this is likely, is that scholars have spotted many other obvious pagan motifs in the rest of the NT which must also have been grafted on in a similar was, as to appeal to a pagan audience: eg, the last supper (Mithras) resurrected after three days (Mithras), 12 'disciples' (Mithras), three wise men (Mithras), healing abilities (esp. particular healing stories in the NT) common to Asklepios, a savior/healing god popular from the 4th century bc, originally human but killed by Zeus for bringing someone back from the dead (Lazarus), later reborn as a god. There are many other examples.
The underlying point is that I believe that we cannot automatically assume that what we read in the bible is what Jesus taught, they are certainly what Christianity teaches, but that may be quite different.

Douglas
Logged

"It is to Scotland that we look for our idea of civilisation." -- Voltaire.
Tisha
Astral Energy 5
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1207


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2003, 19:42:44 »

(I found this on another website and thought it might stimulate some discussion! It was written by an archaeologist/historian/linguist/classisist in Athens. enjoy.)

***************************

For thousands of years preceding the current patriarchal age, humankind perceived and revered the Creator of the Universe as a female entity. From possibly more than 25,000 years ago until around 500 C.E. ("Common Era," formerly "A.D."), the Goddess was held in high regard, at first globally and then only where male-god fanatics could not stamp Her out. This, these homoerotic, testosterone-ridden zealots finally did, after millennia of slaughter and oppression. And the story behind this dreadful deed is quite interesting.

From the early days of human existence, the Mother was venerated as the Bringer of Life, as it was She who brought forth human life. Thousands of images were carved and temples erected in Her name, nature was venerated, and in some areas Her followers lived relatively peacefully. She was not alone in the pantheon, however, as there were many other forms of Deity, including male ones. Also, in cultures that had lost the original gnosis or knowledge of what these supernatural entities stood for, there was human sacrifice in the name of both male and female deities. Nevertheless, under the governance of the Goddess and Her consorts, human culture reached an advanced state in Sumeria, Babylon, Egypt, Canaan, Phoenicia and the rest of the Levant and Eastern Mediterranean. Cities sprung up, writing was created, and civilization found its form.

Then, hordes of Indo-European/Aryan invaders descended upon the pastoral cultures from the north, wreaking havoc in waves of invasions over a period of several hundred years. these Aryan invaders subjugated the Semitic peoples from what is now Turkey into Egypt, bringing with them their warrior sky-god, who would tolerate no others before him. These IE invaders established their rule by killing every man, woman and child in numerous towns and villages, saving the virgin girls for themselves, whom they would assimilate into their now-dominant culture by raping. These warrior-invaders spent the next several centuries breaking the "stiff-necked" Semites of their "bad habit" of worshipping the Goddess, as is reflected in the Hebrew scriptures. They did this by continuous slaughter, as is also recorded in these writings. Finally, after many generations, the Semitic peoples were either wiped out, as in the case of the Canaanites and Phoenicians, or they had acquiesced to the worship of the Indo-European sky/volcano god, now called "Yahweh." Under the influence of the invading mentality, these Yahwists continued their notion of supreme dominance over the rest of the human cultures.

And we know the rest of the story. The implications of this history, as presented by Merlin Stone in her book "When God was a Woman," may have struck some readers by now. What this means is that the predominant theological opinion now found in the Western world came not from the Semitic peoples of the Levant, as is assumed, but from the Aryans, who, in more recent times have proved themselves to be the staunch enemies of at least one group of Semites.

Dare we say it? The "God" figure so highly esteemed today appears to be basically a cultural artifact of the "Fatherland." And in her work, Stone goes on to wonder about the fact that it was the Germans who excavated Anatolia, the land of the Hittites, who were one of these subjugating IE tribes. Could this, she asks, be the reason why Hitler changed his name from Schickelgruber? As Stone interprets it, Hitler could mean "teacher of Hit." This is not a far-fetched hypothesis, as it is well known that Hitler was an enthusiast of not only the occult but also of the ancient Middle Eastern and Indo-Aryan/Iranian cultures, from which he took many symbols, such as the swastika, and, it would seem, his "master race" megalomania. During his reign of terror, Hitlerians marched in parades dressed up in ancient Mesopotamian costumes, carrying these various symbols.

So, it would seem that history has repeated itself, and that these various peoples have been in conflict for much longer than we suppose. Of course, it would also seem that it has invariably been the northern tribes who have been the problem - and that, in a way, they won, since they did manage to foist their angry, male war-god on much of the world, however it was done.

Does this imply that we should overthrow this sexist cultural artifact and replace it with the Goddess? Overthrow, yes. Replace, no. What we should do, if we are to straighten out this mad world, is to fully recognize that our interpretations of deity or anything else are very often mere cultural biases and conditioning, and not ultimate truth.

The usurpation of these various peoples by the fanatic male deity-lovers caused an untold amount of trauma and devastation to the ancient world, including the heinous destruction of the Library of Alexandria, which contained an enormous amount of wisdom. Following the intolerant imposition of the "one god" came an unbearable Dark Age that lasted for centuries and that included the unending abuse by the Catholic Church, along with other hideous results, including the apalling sexism that has sprung up from the third monolithic religion, Islam.

The bottom line is that this one male god belief system has not been good for the world. It has created an astrocious amount of bigotry, as well as stupidity. Indeed, the very word "bigot" comes from the pagan German name for Christians: "bei Gott."

Rather than carrying around this cultural baggage, which creates separation and discord, not only between peoples but between human beings and the cosmos itself, it would be best if the world could become awakened to the formless, genderless truth that unites us all.

Credit for this piece - Acharya S, Archaeologist, Historian, Mythologist, Linguist, Member, American School of Classical Studies at Athens, Greece - ACHARYA
Logged

Tisha
The Astral Pulse
   



 Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums


The Astral Pulse Copyright © 2002 - 2014
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS! Dilber MC Theme by HarzeM