Hi all, what ap techniques do you enjoy doing for at least 20 minutes? I can often hear myself snoring and that means I am close to ap. I do an ap technique such as I imagine myself rising up, going up a ladder or rope but I get bored quickly. I cannot seem to keep doing it for long so I give up and end up falling asleep. I need a technique that will interest me for at least 20 minutes. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
I have an idea. I will think of a place and imagine being there. I will let you know how it goes.
I often imagine that I am at the vacation spot where I went with my family every year when I was a child. I know it well and I walk around, touch stuff, look at the scenery, ride a boat at a high speed. This place is connected with many good memories and this hold my attention because I recall the excitement when we were there.
First "progressive relaxation" for about 10 minutes, followed by creative visualization and sometimes "etheric exercises/tetrahedral points", then BLAST OFF! :-D
I enjoy the progressive relaxation because it feels so good to completely abandon any physical discomfort. I start off every session by thinking and seeing the words "By my act of will I release my focus over my physical body".
I enjoy the creative visualization portion of my sessions because that is my time to experiment anew. The visualizing can be a simple sport simulation like throwing a Frisbee or rowing a boat, but soon it opens up into it's own scenario.
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_permanent_astral_topics/active_imagination_techniques_carl_jung-t32634.0.html
Etheric Exercises are fun because they teach you control over your "NP" form. Tetrahedral points and tug o wars because it shows you just how real this really is. You are activating more than just your sense of sight, now you are activating your tactile sense as well. The more senses you use, the easier it is to fully shift. The key is to NEVER look back, until you are finished with the session at hand that is.
I find if someone is new to this Art and wishes to find out if this is really "real", then the thread on the Phantom Wiggle found here is just what they need to read. I always say prove it to yourself. I already did! :wink:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_consciousness/how_exactly_do_you_perform_the_phantom_wiggle_method-t44583.0.html
That sounds great LightBeam. You are lucky to have good memories of that place and you are able to imagine it. I think ap is a lot easier when you enjoy imagining something. Did you sometimes ap at that place?
Lumaza that was a great read. Thank you for that.
Thank you both for your replies. They were very helpful.
Quote from: Astralsuzy on September 10, 2016, 07:28:41
Hi all, what ap techniques do you enjoy doing for at least 20 minutes? I can often hear myself snoring and that means I am close to ap. I do an ap technique such as I imagine myself rising up, going up a ladder or rope but I get bored quickly. I cannot seem to keep doing it for long so I give up and end up falling asleep. I need a technique that will interest me for at least 20 minutes. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Getting bored with the exercise is a barrier I think and it stems in impatience for the excitement on the other side. You may not be able to find a single exercise that will remain interesting for 20 minutes either.
Instead of searching for the ultimate exercise, you may have more success with an adjustment of your perspective to any and all exercises. Instead of being bored with the exercise you need to get bored with physical reality. Returning to physical awareness is the escape route where more interesting things are going on.
Convince yourself that there is nothing more interesting going on here, then you can swap between exercises and free flow imagination at will without returning awareness to the physical. Default your awareness to non physical, and if you catch yourself looking back or feeling bored, remind yourself that there is nothing else going on or that this time is set aside for a particular purpose.
I came to understand this only last night and it worked well for me, as I normally struggle with boredom too.
Thank you ThaomasOfGrey. You made me reaslise that it is boredom. I now realise any technique I do I will get bored. I will do what you suggest. I will convince myself that this is exciting and I will continue to do it. I have convinced myself with other things so I can convince myself with this to.
There are soooooooooooooooooo many different and exciting techniques out there that I can't see how anyone could get bored with this. I change my approach all the time, sometimes right in the middle of my session. Sometimes I feel like trying or doing one thing, other times I change it up.
But when I experiment, I usually stay the course on one technique, method or idea until I have given it a fair chance. Then I move on.
You are right though Thaomas, when I do a session, there is nothing more exciting going on here in this physical realm at the moment. But every time I do a session I am "all in", so I really don't find it boring at all. Every new thing I experience perks me up a bit. Even the 3D darkness can lead to adventures of it's own. But normally I use the 3D darkness just to relax and completely let go of this physical realm. :-)
That is great Lumaza you do not get bored. I wish I found it exciting. I enjoy meditating and relaxing. I can do that for a long time. I am nearly there. When I get more used to doing techniques I am sure I will not find it boring. I think I developed this problem because I used to ap instantly when I do an ap technique. Now it takes time. Sometimes it does not take long but my boredom gets in the way. I have to learn to be patient. I will overcome this problem but it may take some time.
Quote from: Astralsuzy on September 13, 2016, 11:53:03
I think I developed this problem because I used to ap instantly when I do an ap technique. Now it takes time.
Hmm, that sounds strange. You should be able to do it faster than before. Perhaps you are being challenged to find a new way or technique to AP.
To tell you the truth, many times when I just close my eyes something is already there. This has come through hard work and determination. I lie or sit down to do a session, get comfortable and ready for the long haul, but I find that there is already something on my visual screen that all I need to do is passively observe as the scene progresses.
It shocks me, because as I said, I am preparing myself for the long haul, which sometimes it can be and all of a sudden I have shifted that quickly. I don't have immediate control over the scene though and I have used no intent whatsoever besides closing my eyes and wanting to do a session, which could is still intent. But I know you know what I mean by that. What I see is not a part of my imaging, because what I see I am not thinking of at the time.
An example of this. Yesterday I closed my eyes to relax and immediately I felt movement. On my visual screen was grass and trees passing by, like a person sees while driving. I haven't driven anywhere for a couple days now and at that time that was the furthest thing from my mind. I watched and "allowed" the scene to grow more vivid. Soon I was driving or flying. It's hard to tell because I didn't see any hands on a wheel. I couldn't see any body form of my own at all. I may have just been point consciousness going for a ride.
At first my physical body was experiencing "vertigo" from the movement. But then I got so deep into the shift that I couldn't even tell, nor wanted to know, what my physical body was experiencing. I was just enjoying the scenario at hand.
ALLOWING is a huge word here though. People ask, what do you mean by "allowing"? You do exactly what the word says. You don't fight it, question it or change it. You see the scenario at hand through and keep your focus on it and it until it fades away and you find your focus back here in the physical again. There is plenty of time to question it afterwards. At the time, you ENJOY it! :-)
Our experiences in this reality may have conditioned us to get entertainment too quickly and easily. I am constantly searching for excitement in my experiences and I think it becomes an addiction.
To use a metaphor, Astral Projection is like a massive party behind a locked door and you have been given a key ring with millions of keys to try. Most of the time we may not truly be prepared for the "long haul" that Lumaza pointed out of testing all of those keys, we want the quick win of the first key working.
For me, allowing pertains greatly to acceptance of the process. Once your mind is turned away from the quick win, you will suddenly stumble upon the correct key. In my experience two nights ago I went from boredom to understanding, to acceptance of however long it would take within a couple of minutes, then the fear test came suddenly.
I failed the fear test but I still think it was a breakthrough in understanding. The fear test was a cognisance impression that if I continued I would experience something mind blowing that reminds me of these lyrics from the song Astronomica "Stretched beyond the limits, Out into the unknown".
I clearly wasn't ready for that because I was just experimenting without actually believing or expecting to succeed. My impression of what the conscious projection will be like is totally different to my nightly dream based experiences. I have built it up in my mind to be a zero to one million experience with no control which probably isn't the best for the fear test.
Quote from: ThaomasOfGrey on September 13, 2016, 19:59:23
To use a metaphor, Astral Projection is like a massive party behind a locked door and you have been given a key ring with millions of keys to try. Most of the time we may not truly be prepared for the "long haul" that Lumaza pointed out of testing all of those keys, we want the quick win of the first key working.
I love that analogy. Thanks for that. Today I find that most people want and expect that "quick win". That is why it's so hard to explain to people that they need "walk before they can run". This "Now Generation" wants it to happen "yesterday" and sometimes that isn't even fast enough, lol.
QuoteFor me, allowing pertains greatly to acceptance of the process. Once your mind is turned away from the quick win, you will suddenly stumble upon the correct key. In my experience two nights ago I went from boredom to understanding, to acceptance of however long it would take within a couple of minutes, then the fear test came suddenly.
I failed the fear test but I still think it was a breakthrough in understanding. The fear test was a cognisance impression that if I continued I would experience something mind blowing that reminds me of these lyrics from the song Astronomica "Stretched beyond the limits, Out into the unknown".
You didn't fail the fear test. You noticed and realized that it was a fear test and that is positive progress to me! :wink:
QuoteI clearly wasn't ready for that because I was just experimenting without actually believing or expecting to succeed. My impression of what the conscious projection will be like is totally different to my nightly dream based experiences. I have built it up in my mind to be a zero to one million experience with no control which probably isn't the best for the fear test.
You need to lose all expectations and just "go with the flow". React to what happens when it happens. The same occurred when I had my first "Retrieval". I didn't know it was a Retrieval. I just did what I thought was right and would help the situation. Before that Retrieval I found myself in many actual "School" settings, whereas I was being taught things about how to adapt or adjust to my new surroundings.
Thank you Lumaza. Your idea will help me a lot. I can ap quicker but as I said I was too impatient. For now on, I am going to do my usual routine and that is to relax myself for a while. Then I am going to imagine I am somewhere at some place. I will stick at it as long as it takes to succeed.
One thing you guys might try is a visualization with more movement in it.
Astralsuzy, if you can regularly get to the point where you are starting to snore, then this may be the "boost" you need.
These are visualizations known as Rundowns and I came across the first one years ago, developed by a member named selski; she called hers the Trampoline Rundown. It simply consists of visualizing yourself bouncing on a trampoline. The movement seems to activate your etheric/energy/dreaming body and you begin to feel exit sensations of various types and you let those take over until an exit occurs.
I soon realized that this method could apply to many pleasurable activities and sports. The more rhythmic, the better; the more up & down or side-to-side movement, the better.
So dance, ballet, skiing, snowboarding, motocross, cross-country, riding a horse, show-jumping...you get the idea.
This worked amazingly well for me one night, quite by accident, as I was up late with stomach pains, very tired and trying to sleep. The image of me, seated on a sled coming down a bouncy snowfield...and I just let it take me as the sensations increased...the next thing I knew I was dumped on my back and sitting on a gravel road in some dark forest, all of it quite real at this point!
EV
I often hear myself snore. It only happens when I am making an effort to ap. I have ap from it but not lately. Thanks to this forum I realise it is because I am impatient. I am working on fixing the problem. When I hear myself snore, it is only one snore I hear, then a minute, two or three minutes later another snore. It can go on like that for a little while. It is not constant snoring. If I am not prepared for it I fall asleep. Tonight it will be different. I will imagine jumping on a trampoline. It is a great technique. I have ap using that technique before. The only difference was when I felt like I was jumping on a trampoline I was jumping extremely high up and down. Not like normal jumping on a trampoline. It was fun. I might get a bit bored if the technique takes a while for it to work so if that happens I will imagine that I am in the forest. If I get bored with the forest I will go back to imagining I am jumping on the trampoline again. I will keep swapping between the two methods.
Hi all, I am often close to ap but I am not succeeding. I drift off and fall asleep. I am now going to lie on a thin mattress on the floor as it is not very comfortable. I am also going to sit on a chair. I will let you know how it goes.
Hi all, I lied on the floor late in the afternoon on a thin mattress. After a while you start to get sore. Your back starts aching and then I gave up. Before I went to bed I lied on the floor again. I ignored the soreness and just got on with meditating and relaxing myself. I was not happy as I thought I fell asleep. It was only brief. A little while later I thought I think I did ap. I remember feeling myself moving. I woke up because I thought I fell asleep. I will try again but I am not going to lie on the floor in the afternoon. I think it gets too much doing that twice. Instead I am going to relax on my back on a comfortable bed. I am close to ap a number of times. My problem is I get bored. I have to get passed this. I have another idea which I will try. I know I still have to persevere with it.
Hi all, just an update on how I am going. Approximately 5.30 pm I was doing deep breathing and relaxing myself. I keep trying to imagine myself at some place or doing an activity. I do it for a while but unfortunately I get bored. Perhaps in time I will overcome that problem. I am sure I found meditation boring once but I am very used to it now. Anyway, after a while I heard an occasional snoring sound. My mouth is always closed. What usually happens is a short time later without any warning I instantly ap somewhere. This is what happened. I was driving a car. I could see the road. I could drive straight ahead or curve to the right. I remember that spot when I drive to my parents place. I got tense for some reason as I curved to the right and I snapped back into my body. I will keep practicing and I will never give up.
I want to start making an effort to get up out of bed early in the mornings instead of making excuses for myself. It is either too late or too early. If I make more of an effort it will increase my chances to ap.
What a great thread (and question) ... here is something that I regularly use ... I visualize this meditation structure and do my OBE preparation activities within this environment. I have been reading old Frank Kepple posts for the last month here and he emphasizes how often he uses visualization in his own preparation to project. As a result, I used it last night (for the first time in a while), and it resulted in several, varying NP experiences. I have shared it on other forums and most people really enjoy it or find benefit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4RkltlJZKM (4 minute YT video)
You draw this on a single piece of paper (I still have mine from last year), and add to later as needed. This visualization technique provides a structure (umbrella) in which all NP preparation and launching can congregate. If you bounce on a trampoline, then place the trampoline in this area. If you sit quietly by river stream to calm your body, then draw that into the territory. You get the idea ... it all goes in this dedicated but all encompassing launch area for meditation, your run down, contact with guidance, etc.
When I use this structure, I have noticed that I am able to stay in my technique much longer - without mental disruptions. And ... if I need to change my technique while preparing for projection, somehow it helps my mind, because I am not leaving my meditation-projection launch area (just changing a technique).
fwiw, just an idea ...
Thanks for that Subtle Traveler. You gave me a good idea. There is a beautiful park close by. I am going to imagine the park and add things to it as you suggested. I tried to do it yesterday but I must have been tired. I could not concentrate. I could not think of anything. I kept forgetting to think. This morning I managed to ap. I am happy about that because I have not ap for a while. I keep falling asleep. I know I have to concentrate and not to miss my ap signs. The ap signs can be very slight so it is easy to miss it. I do not know about everyone else but when I ap it is like what we see here in this world. I see the buildings, the sky, grass etc. I never see anything evil or any monsters. There is no fighting or anything awful. In the astral people were doing things just like here. They like to have a drink and the streets are sometimes busy. I noticed that my ap experience was a bit silly this morning so I think it turned into a bit of a dream. I have to try to improve that.
Sure, not a problem. I learned something also on your thread.
Btw, once you conceptualize the area, leave a period of time for changes and additions. That often helps me 'settle into' a new way of doing something, and I make it my own.
My current favorite technique, right now, would be any one that get be and kind of result. LOL!!
I am very new to the whole process and have only had two successful instances.
Quote from: SCHMUSTIN on October 13, 2016, 20:46:23
My current favorite technique, right now, would be any one that get be and kind of result. LOL!!
...and what technique have you chosen SCHMUSTIN?
Quote from: Lumaza on October 13, 2016, 23:55:14
...and what technique have you chosen SCHMUSTIN?
Right now I enjoy the "Indirect Method". I have seen the most success with this.
I enjoy the relaxing part LOL. I just lay there with ear plugs and focus on the beating of my heart and the air rushing through my nose and filling my lungs.
I did try the one where you look at the candle (As you recommended to me in a previous post).
It work great for my wife. She ended up in the void state with in 4-6 min. First time she ever got there, she was really excited LOL.
But for me after a couple minutes the focus point seemed to dissipate. I will be giving it another go.
I do still work on the direct method but it will take a bit and proving to be challenging to date.
Quote from: SCHMUSTIN on October 18, 2016, 19:36:44
I did try the one where you look at the candle (As you recommended to me in a previous post).
It work great for my wife. She ended up in the void state with in 4-6 min. First time she ever got there, she was really excited LOL.
But for me after a couple minutes the focus point seemed to dissipate. I will be giving it another go.
It might work easier for her because she isn't questioning it as much. She is just like, "ho hum, okay I'll give it a go". No expectations, no pressure. Do you see what I'm getting at here" *hint hint*!
It's natural for your focus to dissipate. Like I said, the average Human can hold their focus on a singular thing for about 8 seconds. In this practice, you are teaching/training yourself to hold it much more than that.
When the image disappears, bring it back. You will find you are so busy with the act of holding onto or creating this "target of your focus", that you have already shifted without even knowing what's going on. Like Tom Campbell once told me a long time ago "The NPR (Non Physical Reality/Realm) is just a simple shift away. We just have to learn to get out of the way and let it happen".
Quote from: Lumaza on October 18, 2016, 20:17:53
It might work easier for her because she isn't questioning it as much. She is just like, "ho hum, okay I'll give it a go". No expectations, no pressure. Do you see what I'm getting at here" *hint hint*!
LOL.... Yes, I see what your saying about the wife not "questioning it ha ha ha!
I know I am antisopating it, just cause I want it so bad. I have also had the pleasure of a partial separation.
Quote from: SCHMUSTIN on October 19, 2016, 01:09:49
LOL.... Yes, I see what your saying about the wife not "questioning it ha ha ha!
I know I am antisopating it, just cause I want it so bad. I have also had the pleasure of a partial separation.
Questioning it wasn't what I meant. Well, that was one part of it. The bigger part that hinders a person is the "expectations" and "pressure" they put upon themselves to achieve this.
Quote from: Lumaza on October 18, 2016, 20:17:53
Like Tom Campbell once told me a long time ago "The NPR (Non Physical Reality/Realm) is just a simple shift away. We just have to learn to get out of the way and let it happen".
It is difficult to relate to what Campbell is talking about here. I find that states of consciousness have a gravitational nature; imagine a system containing only the earth and the moon. The earth represents the waking physical reality experience state, and the moon represents some non physical dream state.
As one attempts to jump from the earth to the moon, the gravity of earth affects you less the further away you get. If you don't jump high enough you get sucked right back down to earth, but once you breach the threshold of equal force, the moon gravity will take over and pull you in.
From the dream state, I can visualize or "see" a face and it will more or less immediately become a tangible and persistent entity in the dream, there is very little resistance. Visualizing a face from the normal state seems to have tremendous resistance, it isn't like changing the channel on TV, where the face is now your default and it takes effort to go back to not seeing the face.
At times I lose complete focus and knowledge of this physical reality, unwillingly, but this experience is not like the void. The void for me has a visual component, what I am trying to describe is complete engagement in a train of thought.
Theoretically from this state is should be extremely easy to experience the non-physical, the prerequisites are met, yet that gravity is still there to rip you back down to physical perception. It never travels the opposite way, unless special effort has been made to prepare the mind to the right state first.
I think the reason for this is because our ability to access other states of consciousness is a physical trait. You can measure the change in brain wave pattern associated with these other states. After years of mastery entering the void, Campbell has developed the neural pathways to quickly enter this state at will. He admits as such, but my view is that getting out of the way doesn't do anything unless you give the ball a serious roll and have dug a trough for it to roll in.
You make a lot of sense ThaomasOfGrey. I think some people are just naturally or maybe unnaturally more geared to project than others.
Quote from: ThaomasOfGrey on October 19, 2016, 04:52:29
It is difficult to relate to what Campbell is talking about here. I find that states of consciousness have a gravitational nature; imagine a system containing only the earth and the moon. The earth represents the waking physical reality experience state, and the moon represents some non physical dream state.
As one attempts to jump from the earth to the moon, the gravity of earth affects you less the further away you get. If you don't jump high enough you get sucked right back down to earth, but once you breach the threshold of equal force, the moon gravity will take over and pull you in.
From the dream state, I can visualize or "see" a face and it will more or less immediately become a tangible and persistent entity in the dream, there is very little resistance. Visualizing a face from the normal state seems to have tremendous resistance, it isn't like changing the channel on TV, where the face is now your default and it takes effort to go back to not seeing the face.
At times I lose complete focus and knowledge of this physical reality, unwillingly, but this experience is not like the void. The void for me has a visual component, what I am trying to describe is complete engagement in a train of thought.
Theoretically from this state is should be extremely easy to experience the non-physical, the prerequisites are met, yet that gravity is still there to rip you back down to physical perception. It never travels the opposite way, unless special effort has been made to prepare the mind to the right state first.
There is still a tremendous amount you can do and learn even if you don't break 100% free away from the Earth's gravity. If your ONLY goal is to break free entirely and land on the moon then you're missing a perspective of what the non-physical is. It's not a "here" or "there" thing... it's an entire spectrum. You are already living FULLY and COMPLETELY in both. You can project and experience just fine even if you never reach the moon. :)
That "tremendous resistance" you speak of is an entirely self created barrier.
QuoteI think the reason for this is because our ability to access other states of consciousness is a physical trait. You can measure the change in brain wave pattern associated with these other states. After years of mastery entering the void, Campbell has developed the neural pathways to quickly enter this state at will. He admits as such, but my view is that getting out of the way doesn't do anything unless you give the ball a serious roll and have dug a trough for it to roll in.
Campbell just knows the tricks. They're there for you to learn as well.
Although, I wouldn't go as far as saying that access to those other states is a "physical" trait, since this physical isn't physical at all. You are just part of consciousness and so is this "physical" reality.
The trick is to stop buying into the concept of physicality. Once you break yourself from that, you'll begin to see reality in a much different light and it kind of loosens the hold it has upon you. It's a slow learn though, as it was for me.
Quote from: Xanth on October 19, 2016, 12:06:42
Although, I wouldn't go as far as saying that access to those other states is a "physical" trait, since this physical isn't physical at all. You are just part of consciousness and so is this "physical" reality.
The trick is to stop buying into the concept of physicality. Once you break yourself from that, you'll begin to see reality in a much different light and it kind of loosens the hold it has upon you. It's a slow learn though, as it was for me.
From where to start tho?
also when you say everything is consciousness what u mean chair i am sitting on is consciousness? if u can help me figuring out this part i am really interested ^ _^
Quote from: Positive3 on October 19, 2016, 14:04:13
From where to start tho?
also when you say everything is consciousness what u mean chair i am sitting on is consciousness? if u can help me figuring out this part i am really interested ^ _^
I think the simple way to understand it is that everything is made up of energy, but we see them solid "objects". But the energy is consciousness at the same time as we in essence. But a chair will not speak to you basically - maybe I'm wrong lol - because it is a simple thing according to us. I think this is something which we need to investigate in the NP when we or others are learning about consciousness and energy.
Quote from: Xanth on October 19, 2016, 12:06:42
Campbell just knows the tricks. They're there for you to learn as well.
I think the "trick" Tom knows is realizing and believing/knowing that it really is that easy.
QuoteThe trick is to stop buying into the concept of physicality. Once you break yourself from that, you'll begin to see reality in a much different light and it kind of loosens the hold it has upon you. It's a slow learn though, as it was for me.
...in other words "change your mindset, changes your reality". How do you do that? You experience it enough times with an "open mind" and see/prove it to yourself.
Quote from: Xanth on October 19, 2016, 12:06:42
There is still a tremendous amount you can do and learn even if you don't break 100% free away from the Earth's gravity. If your ONLY goal is to break free entirely and land on the moon then you're missing a perspective of what the non-physical is. It's not a "here" or "there" thing... it's an entire spectrum. You are already living FULLY and COMPLETELY in both. You can project and experience just fine even if you never reach the moon. :)
Agreed, it is a spectrum, I have had enough glimpses of various experiences to place some data points on the spectrum so to speak. People don't come here to accept their common reality experience though, something drives us to want that canonical moon experience. I don't know if gaining it really enhances our growth potential, or whether it is an extension of our addiction to entertainment and desire for knowledge.
The idea of flying around my city in the real time zone at will just lights up the excitement of my being. A channeled 4th dimensional aptly described that we are like children reaching for the candy jar until we hurt ourselves.
Quote
That "tremendous resistance" you speak of is an entirely self created barrier.
Campbell just knows the tricks. They're there for you to learn as well.
Why does the barrier only apply to the normal waking state? If there was a fundamental belief that prevents me from doing these things, should it not also apply to other states of consciousness?
Where does the barrier come from, how can I learn more about it and how to deconstruct it. Are we institutionalized from birth to not be able to shift consciousness, or is it more like Tom Campbell's personal claim that 4th dimensional beings manually shut down our ability to access these states. That would be a externally created barrier.
Quote
Although, I wouldn't go as far as saying that access to those other states is a "physical" trait, since this physical isn't physical at all. You are just part of consciousness and so is this "physical" reality.
The trick is to stop buying into the concept of physicality. Once you break yourself from that, you'll begin to see reality in a much different light and it kind of loosens the hold it has upon you. It's a slow learn though, as it was for me.
True, it isn't really physical, however, if you buy into Campbell's Big TOE - it is still a real system with real rules and that makes it behave like a true physical reality. I have no illusion of a material universe anymore, but I still appreciate the construct of a brain and how it affects our conscious experience.
If there was really no connection between the rules of this reality system and consciousness it wouldn't work as a reality system. Light and sound machines interact with our real brain structure for a consciousness effect. I can buy that unharnessed belief in the potential of consciousness can cause spontaneous changes in brain wave patterns that lead to new states, however, experiencing non physical reality with no change in brain waves would be an impressive feat.
Is there any evidence of a real disjoint between our brain system and consciousness? I have been told that even when we experience completely separate realities that we are still bounded by the limitations of the human mind. It isn't like going source consciousness and returning to human consciousness, it is experiencing source consciousness through the goggles of the human consciousness simulation.
These are just tasty ideas, I am always open to bigger perspectives.
Quote from: Positive3 on October 19, 2016, 14:04:13
From where to start tho?
also when you say everything is consciousness what u mean chair i am sitting on is consciousness? if u can help me figuring out this part i am really interested ^ _^
Yes, the chair you're sitting on is apart of everything in the same way you are part of everything.
You might ask how that knowledge helps you to project... directly it doesn't. Indirectly it plays a huge part in your spiritual development, which then drives your projections.
When you realize that everyone is simply an aspect of you from a different perspective, you learn that when you hurt someone else, you're really only hurting yourself.
Quote from: ThaomasOfGrey on October 19, 2016, 23:51:23
Agreed, it is a spectrum, I have had enough glimpses of various experiences to place some data points on the spectrum so to speak. People don't come here to accept their common reality experience though, something drives us to want that canonical moon experience. I don't know if gaining it really enhances our growth potential, or whether it is an extension of our addiction to entertainment and desire for knowledge.
The idea of flying around my city in the real time zone at will just lights up the excitement of my being. A channeled 4th dimensional aptly described that we are like children reaching for the candy jar until we hurt ourselves.
The flying is cool... and is probably mostly what I do when I find myself non-physical.
However, there's a reason why I don't actively practice projection anymore... there's no reason to.
My drive to teach people to project is in the hopes that they realize that they don't need to project at all and that their greatest strength lies in experiencing this "physical" reality with as much Love as they can.
THAT is where you will find your greatest chances of growing spiritually.
QuoteWhy does the barrier only apply to the normal waking state? If there was a fundamental belief that prevents me from doing these things, should it not also apply to other states of consciousness?
Why? Because you've trained yourself to correlate your "physical" self to that belief. When you're experiencing another reality, (usually) you've freed yourself from that belief.
QuoteWhere does the barrier come from, how can I learn more about it and how to deconstruct it. Are we institutionalized from birth to not be able to shift consciousness, or is it more like Tom Campbell's personal claim that 4th dimensional beings manually shut down our ability to access these states. That would be a externally created barrier.
Where does any subconsciously created belief come from? Put into it's simplest form, you're taught from the very minute you enter this reality that you're simply nothing more than a piece of meat. We don't teach out children that they're consciousness and that they're one piece of the whole. Imagine if we did. Imagine that we taught our kids that when you hurt others, you're really only hurting yourself.
QuoteTrue, it isn't really physical, however, if you buy into Campbell's Big TOE - it is still a real system with real rules and that makes it behave like a true physical reality. I have no illusion of a material universe anymore, but I still appreciate the construct of a brain and how it affects our conscious experience.
It's only "real" from the perspective of you experiencing it.
When you're experiencing a different reality, that reality then becomes "real" and it has a "real system with real rules" too.
You're confusing what "real" means in regards to a virtual system.
QuoteIf there was really no connection between the rules of this reality system and consciousness it wouldn't work as a reality system. Light and sound machines interact with our real brain structure for a consciousness effect. I can buy that unharnessed belief in the potential of consciousness can cause spontaneous changes in brain wave patterns that lead to new states, however, experiencing non physical reality with no change in brain waves would be an impressive feat.
Is there any evidence of a real disjoint between our brain system and consciousness? I have been told that even when we experience completely separate realities that we are still bounded by the limitations of the human mind. It isn't like going source consciousness and returning to human consciousness, it is experiencing source consciousness through the goggles of the human consciousness simulation.
These are just tasty ideas, I am always open to bigger perspectives.
You're right. You can only experience other realities through your human experiences. That's why the vast majority of experiences people have, especially in other realities, mirror that of our physical reality.
Those of us who are more creative than others (certainly not me) end up having more esoteric experiences.
I'd say you're bounded by your experiences. Expand your experiences and you can expand WHAT you can experience.
In the end we're born INTO this reality and are PART of this reality. Think about that idea for a bit. It's the entire basis for your existence. Scary thought really. LoL
Quote from: Xanth on October 20, 2016, 12:24:37
Yes, the chair you're sitting on is apart of everything in the same way you are part of everything.
You might ask how that knowledge helps you to project... directly it doesn't. Indirectly it plays a huge part in your spiritual development, which then drives your projections.
When you realize that everyone is simply an aspect of you from a different perspective, you learn that when you hurt someone else, you're really only hurting yourself.
So does that mean when i hurt someone i hurt everyone if we are one? or if someone gets hurt i am also getting hurt but why don't i feel it? or why don't i feel it when i hurt someone else that it hurts me ? if that feeling comes from realisation does that mean that realizing may not have such a good impact?
Also aspect of me like if i used different perspectives i could see my self in others? sorry for this massive question bombs but i really want to clear this out 1 year ago i heared same thing form you i thought i understood but now i realize i have no sense what ( Being one ; Being same or say like everyone is consciousness) means
Quote from: Positive3 on October 20, 2016, 12:59:04
So does that mean when i hurt someone i hurt everyone if we are one? or if someone gets hurt i am also getting hurt but why don't i feel it? or why don't i feel it when i hurt someone else that it hurts me ? if that feeling comes from realisation does that mean that realizing may not have such a good impact?
The question is from the level of consciousness. I'm not talking about physical hurting. This isn't pain we're talking about here.
Spiritual growth of consciousness as a whole is what's hurt. As Tom Campbell would call it... the entropy of the system is increased or decreased.
When you hurt someone, then the entropy of consciousness increases (bad)...
When you Love someone, then the entropy of consciousness decreases (good)...
This is why it's important to make that realization through our interactions with each other in our daily lives that we're all part of the "one", we're all part of consciousness.
Not just make the realization, but actually apply it to your life too.
Does that make more sense?
QuoteAlso aspect of me like if i used different perspectives i could see my self in others? sorry for this massive question bombs but i really want to clear this out 1 year ago i heared same thing form you i thought i understood but now i realize i have no sense what ( Being one ; Being same or say like everyone is consciousness) means
"Aspect" was probably the wrong word.
You are an individual awareness which arose out of the whole of consciousness.
You're an individual in as much as your left arm is an individual of the whole of your body. You're part of the body and never separate from it.
Or another way I like to put it is you're an individual like a wave arising out of an ocean. You're part of the ocean and never separate from it.
Yes but how we know that decresasing or increasing works that way? these last time i was into a little bit psycology and like i thought what's good what's bad is just our point of view i mean : if i hug someone and if i punched someone what defines was it good or bad, my intent why i did it? but what defines was this intent good or bad i mean :DD oh it's so hard to explain on not native language who says what's good what's bad maybe everything is just same i mean punching someone and loving someone may have different actions followed but in terms of good and bad punching for me can be good, for others bad who is correct? and is there an actual divine truth?
Quote from: Positive3 on October 20, 2016, 13:29:33
Yes but how we know that decresasing or increasing works that way? these last time i was into a little bit psycology and like i thought what's good what's bad is just our point of view i mean : if i hug someone and if i punched someone what defines was it good or bad, my intent why i did it? but what defines was this intent good or bad i mean :DD oh it's so hard to explain on not native language who says what's good what's bad maybe everything is just same i mean punching someone and loving someone may have different actions followed but in terms of good and bad punching for me can be good, for others bad who is correct? and is there an actual divine truth?
The "Intent" behind WHY you did the action defines that action.
Say you did something which seems good (you returned someone's wallet they dropped), but if you did that action for selfish reasons (you EXPECTED to get a reward from them)... then you're not really helping consciousness.
EDIT: Oh and I edited my post above after you made your post. :)
No i understood that point of view but how we know it works that way? how we know that it's not helping consciousness what let say " Scans " our intent price so we get same in return? does that mean there is one devine truth we can't deny ? or it's our labbeling of good and bad that's the question i got, if we are gods of our selfs doesn't that mean i am the one who judges my self and defines what i am, for example i punched someone because i wanted to hurt them, we would define this as " bad inteneted action " yes? but why it's bad intented, if from my view it's not bad and from your view it's bad who's correct :D i don't want to sound like a psyco i am not punching people in face just to clear this out :DD
+ yep saw editing just now
Quote from: Positive3 on October 20, 2016, 13:42:36
No i understood that point of view but how we know it works that way?
We don't know... we actually CAN'T know.
But ask yourself this: What kind of world would YOU like to live in?
One where we all work together to better each other and ourselves?
Or one where we all live individually and live only for ourselves?
I know which would I'd prefer. :)
Our own labeling of what's "good" or "bad" is meaningless with Intent.
Thanks for the previous reply Xanth, it is good. Without a doubt I intend on teaching my children from the outset that they are consciousness and see where that leads.
I think I can assist on this matter of good and bad. There are two separate concepts at play; moral good and bad, which is completely subjective, arbitrary and not very useful. Then you have absolute good and bad, scientifically measureable and objective. For a long time I never believed there was such an absolute, but there can be within a specific mental concept.
If you take for granted that consciousness exists on an evolutionary path, starting at essentially nothing, and ending at "perfection" you can simply define those actions that get you closer to perfection as being good, and ones that cause regression as bad. That being said, good can lead to bad, bad can lead to good. In some cases it may not be possible to reach good without the bad. You have to try everything to know what works.