New here - 3D Blackness path

[Eddie333]

Hey guys i just signed up here been reading some stuff for a while tho.

So in short, when i was 13(24 now) i discovered Bruce moen, read that, tried having obes didnt manage to do so, stated to myself that the astral is bovine excrement, we are our physical bodies and brains and nothing happens when we die and what bruce was experiencing were actually lucid dreams. The only reason i got into this was is that when i was a kid 1st 2nd 3rd grade i could control my dreams , i been telling kids at my school some of them would believe me some wouldnt. Plus i've always wondered where i was before i was here and how tf this human stuff is happening

Of course last year i had my dark night of the soul, been having some health related issues- very very depressed, i picked up bruce moen book again and tried gateway cd 1, went to sleep, became aware in a dream because i was shoveling snow and it was summer. I remember waving my hand before the snow and everything stabilized. I jumped to fly, looked over the house and all of the sudden i thought ill close my eyes and get in lotus position in the air. Did that and when i opened my eyes again BOOOM 3D BLACKNESS MF!! I couldnt believe it i was feeling every inch of my "non physical body" i looked  at my hands and i couldnt see them but i felt i could see them.. weird but cool. Then i try to create that field around that monroe is talking about and i felt like i was floating upwards and i freaked out i was like HOLY NONONONO and i had a false waking up experience where i got uo went outside the house it was pitch black and then woke up once again but for real. It was 6AM got my laptop and started searching about that state and i found Frank Kepple.

How do I get to the 3d blackness again?

I had like probably 20 projections since then but i couldnt get to that state meaning that i was in my Focus 2 as Frank describes

Last night i tried projecting by rolling as i usually do and i didnt make it far ) but i had like 4 lucid dreams, the last one being the most lucid where I was outside the house and a relative was talking to me, at that point i knew i was dreaming and paying really close attention to the words she was using thinking to my self "she is using only the words fhat i would remember that she uses" the point where i realised it is my subconcious talking to me and i had a little fun by concentrating and making her stutter or shut up spontaneously ))))) after that i started flying cause it was the bluest sky ever -very beutiful- and tried concentrating on the clouds while in air hoping i would somehow get to 3d black again

Also i think i know what focus 12 is. While having what appeared to be the start of a nightmare where in an apartment with no light i thought i could a see a hand reaching out from inbetween some shelves ))) i just got up and went through the closest door, point of which i stepped into another apartment which seemed to be a combination of my old rent locations. I realized im dreaming, POINT of which i got back to my physical body but not like waking up i could just hear myself breathing for half a second while in the 2d blackness and then snapped back to the dream fully concious, everything stabilized looking real af and then i went to the balcony i was at the tenth floor looking down it was daylight cars and people outisde but it was RAINING - i said wow that was unexpected and i immediately thought it must bs raining cause its raining in the physical and i heard it and it got in my dreams. And then i wanted to jump out of the window to fly although kind of scary cause everything was so sharp and then i thought stupidly what if i jump from here and i also jump sleep walking in real life simultaneously and i die ? ))))) which is stupid in itself but even more stupid is that in the physical i was sleeping at a house so i wouldve reached the ground in half a second )))) i understand now that my thinking oath from that dream led me to slowly lose conciousness.

All of my projections by roll over method were inbetween my sleep cycles i cant do it wilfully just yet but i will soon enough.
I stayed 1 hour to 1 hour and a half in the bed not moving at all with my eyes closed probably like 50 times now, definitely more times than i meditated, so i definitely reached focus 10 and 12 just didnt know. I'm sure of this after the dream where i got back from nearly waking up.

Meditated once for more than an hour and at a certain point i didnt know where my body was and i started to feel like i dont know up from down and right from left anymore and vibrations to my whole body. Might've been the start of an obe? I was sitting in lotus tho. Opened my eyes as the experience was starting to be a little scary as it was my first time i felt like that while meditating.
Imagine that last year i didnt even believe in this stuff and thought we are our ohysical bodies. Now i know we are more than that for sure and i didnt even reach the afterlife area yet but just know. Also i got in the rabbit hole of quantum physics, stuff like heart brain coherence, etc THE WHOLE NINE!

Now obviously you guys have more experience than i do so can you please tell me how do i get to the 3d blackness and once im there how do i get to frank's focus 3, do i just create a door , or? I tried creating a door that would point to the 3d blackness but it didnt work.

Also if im in a dream or projecting in focus 2 and a specific portion or area is black like for example going outside your room and everything is black. Is that focus 12?

Happy to meet you guys!

[omcasey]

Hiya, Eddie

Full on Void experiences are more rare than the visual variety - but unforgettable, eh?

Meditation practice is what I feel is the key here.

Close your eyes, look into the blackness in front of your closed eyes, stay alert and do not let yourself knock off. Keep your attention in the black at the level of the brow. Work your optical muscles, look as though you are looking at something from one end of the street ( as an example ) down to the other end. Then look as though you are looking at something up close. Feel the muscles work both ways. This is a good general exercise. Now most cannot stay focused on specifically seeing the black, visuals will likely begin to appear and catch the attention - but you CAN stay focused and go directly into the black/void.

Tratak, focused gazing, such as candle gazing I also have found extremely helpful.

As well as eyes closed breathing practices.

Spiritual DISCIPLINES.

Do you have practices? What are they?


Casey

[Nameless]

Hi Eddie, welcome to the Pulse. You've had quite the experience.I personally don't care what focus level I am in or where I go. I accept each experience as entirely unique. However, when I do wish to repeat or revisit a location I slow it down and recount what I did the first time. Sometimes it works that way and sometimes I get something totally new.

Intent is everything and by demanding that we have it our way we lose out on a lot of possibilities.

[Volgerle]

From my personal experience we (or at least I) ALWAYS go through the Void while doing a conscious projection (as opposed to Lucid Dreaming when you wake up in a dream and immediately 'see'). We often just don't realise it. It is the diving board and starting point. For me there is or was 'always' a 'black phase' even when I gain 'visuals' almost immediately.

So the 'trick' if you will is to realise it and just 'stop' 'on the way out' by realising you don't want to go further yet but stay there for a while or the rest of your projection.

Also I would suggest not to use any 'physical' techniques such as rolling, climbing, or any other 'kinetic' strategies like e.g. looking at your astral hands in front of you to gain more clarity. A kind of 'phasing' tech seems better for the Void if you ask me.

Visuals within the Void will then also arise automatically by design or desire, in my case often in the form of 'galaxies', 'vortexes' or 'swirls' which you can enter or use for communication. You can also let it show you things e.g. when you do remote viewing stuff. The Void can become pretty 'talkative' and 'communicative' if you let it. 

[EscapeVelocity]

Welcome to the Pulse!

The 3 Dimensional Darkness/Void has been widely discussed. There seems to be fairly common agreement about the experience, but with some qualifications by notable people with experience in the matter. Our friend and esteemed contributor Volgerle put together a very extensive summary of examples, perspectives and insights into the matter...a long read but very worthwhile...it should serve to answer some of your questions. It is found in the first Board, at the top in the blue highlighted "stickies" section, which within each Board, can provide valuable insights into some of the more pertinent questions.

https://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome-to-out-of-body-experiences!/the-void/

[Eddie333]

Guys, THX A LOT FOR REPLYING!!! I've had a chaos weekend and I wanted to get back to you with full answers so I don't reply in half-posts.

Hiya, Eddie

Full on Void experiences are more rare than the visual variety - but unforgettable, eh?

Meditation practice is what I feel is the key here.

Close your eyes, look into the blackness in front of your closed eyes, stay alert and do not let yourself knock off. Keep your attention in the black at the level of the brow. Work your optical muscles, look as though you are looking at something from one end of the street ( as an example ) down to the other end. Then look as though you are looking at something up close. Feel the muscles work both ways. This is a good general exercise. Now most cannot stay focused on specifically seeing the black, visuals will likely begin to appear and catch the attention - but you CAN stay focused and go directly into the black/void.

Tratak, focused gazing, such as candle gazing I also have found extremely helpful.

As well as eyes closed breathing practices.

Spiritual DISCIPLINES.

Do you have practices? What are they?


Casey

Nice to meet you Casey!!!

So I tried the shambavi muhamadra thing where you gaze at a fixated point upwards and indeed it's a 3d black. What I was usually practicing is just laying in bed with a hemi sync for theta or delta (started with Monroe's cd1 gateway) and just lay there being as  conscious as I can be. Now I realized after about 1 hour of not moving, my breath carries on by itself and usually different images pop up(might be alpha waves?) and I know if I keep on doing it and remain calm I start dreaming which I think it's when my brain goes in theta and I start dreaming(i think) Now, I never got an OBE of that but I got into lucid dreams where when I tried to increase awareness it woke me up and as I'm very stubborn I usually go dream-blackness-dream-blackness like 7 times and only about 2 or 3 of those are conscious.

As for the meditation, the experience I wrote about above when I felt those HIGH vibrations and didnt know up from down and left from right anymore I was just sitting in lotus with my hands facing down on my knees and my eyes pointing forward(normal) REPEATING the mantra "I AM NOT THE PHYSICAL BODY, I AM NOT THE MIND" and all of the sudden BOOM crazy vibrations! but that happen after about an hour.

THE CRAZY CRAZY thing I observed is the following: While repeating the mantra for about half an hour or more, whenever I stopped repeating it in my head I was casually replacing it with "WHAT AM I?" and then when I wanted to answer myself and say "I AM HERE, I AM NOW, I AM EVERYWHERE, I AM LOVE, I AM EVERYTHING, ETC.", it's like all of the sudden my body or my level of consciousness will let me "know" if what I said is "right" by increasing/decreasing the level of awareness- almost like playing hot/cold )). and then at some point I felt those intense vibrations and I kind of panicked and opened my eyes. Also short time before opening my eyes an image of a "being" which I believe it was my own projection because when the vibrations started I immediately thought i'm not ready to meet any "beings" or anything like that and I think that it was my own consciousness playing with me or testing me. weird stuff but cool.

Also closing my eyes and gazing up became my secret method of relaxing anywhere, anytime because when I do it it immediately makes me sigh and relax my body. )

Another moment which I think was kind of correlated with Theta Healing or Hypnosis was this one:
After about 1 hour of laying in bed not moving and the images popping up were starting to be more pronounced some ugly projections started manifesting like different weird looking creatures and stuff like that, they didn't make me feel awkward anymore because i knew i made them, after what i would consider to be like 10 to 15 minutes with them which definitely felt longer, AT SOME POINT that THING happened like for example when you start being lucid in a dream where there are "people" and all of the sudden when you are aware you are dreaming all of those people instantly "LOOK" at you and freeze( for me they also smile ) so those projections looked at me and smiled ( kind of like "you got it" )) ) my understanding of this is that I was in theta or dream state since the "dream people" thing happened. WHERE I WANT TO GET TO is before that happened I was "trying" different affirmations that would somehow get me over those projections and since I have a little trauma from when i was a kid and I believe the statement "The kid is the victim and the victim is the kid" is true ( there's a whole another story and explanation which I will not get into right now), THIS LED ME TO THE AFFIRMATION "I AM AN ADULT" (weird I know) and I repeated that multiple times ON and OFF and after another couple minutes after I got passed those projections, I chose to open my eyes and "wake up" and about 5 minutes I was still laying in bed with my eyes open and just inhaled and all of the sudden my body felt slightly bigger(but not in that way when you are meditating) and I was feeling more IN POWER. My understanding of this is that when I was younger I was a lot skinnier and I think that in some kind of way that got correlated with a powerlessness of the "inner child" and by repeating that mantra "I'm an adult" in that state it almost overwrote those kinds of inner perception about myself that created those projections( also i'm more muscular now but that's due to working out )) ) And I felt more power and another interesting side effect was that when I was closing my eyes I could IMAGINE more pronounced COLORS. Like I was able to imagine BLUE, RED, PURPLE and see them as real and pronounced as possible. I knew I did something good to myself by doing that and I was just amazed and I immediately thought - "I
guess that's what hypnosis, theta healing, Joe Dispenza methods refer to when they are talking about changing your "programs" " - Also imagine that Mike Tyson was being hypnotised by his coach with programs like "I am impervious to any attack, my deffense is flawless, my style is impeccable" - always thought is weird hearing him say that but now I have a slightly different perception on that - he was being hypnotized by Cus D'Amato during every training session. ))))

Hi Eddie, welcome to the Pulse. You've had quite the experience.I personally don't care what focus level I am in or where I go. I accept each experience as entirely unique. However, when I do wish to repeat or revisit a location I slow it down and recount what I did the first time. Sometimes it works that way and sometimes I get something totally new.

Intent is everything and by demanding that we have it our way we lose out on a lot of possibilities.

Nice to meet you, Nameless!

I found that by demanding sometimes I lose consciousness as well but I think I have to keep trying since a lot of people talk about William Buhlman's "Higher Self Now!" - but idk, that might work better while in the "Focus 3" already. Good point tho' I agree!

From my personal experience we (or at least I) ALWAYS go through the Void while doing a conscious projection (as opposed to Lucid Dreaming when you wake up in a dream and immediately 'see'). We often just don't realise it. It is the diving board and starting point. For me there is or was 'always' a 'black phase' even when I gain 'visuals' almost immediately.

So the 'trick' if you will is to realise it and just 'stop' 'on the way out' by realising you don't want to go further yet but stay there for a while or the rest of your projection.

Also I would suggest not to use any 'physical' techniques such as rolling, climbing, or any other 'kinetic' strategies like e.g. looking at your astral hands in front of you to gain more clarity. A kind of 'phasing' tech seems better for the Void if you ask me.

Visuals within the Void will then also arise automatically by design or desire, in my case often in the form of 'galaxies', 'vortexes' or 'swirls' which you can enter or use for communication. You can also let it show you things e.g. when you do remote viewing stuff. The Void can become pretty 'talkative' and 'communicative' if you let it. 

Nice to meet you Volgerle!

I too am expecting to go through the 3d Blackness as a confirmation point that the next destination is 100% Frank's "Focus 3"

The roll over technique / lucid dreaming are the only ones I can use for the moment to project. It usually happens about 4 hours after I get to sleep. I wake up and then I know what I can do if I pay some attention and I just need to be conscious and let my body go into sleep while my awareness is still present. Last night for example after 4 hours of sleep i was facing upwards and after I started feeling my "astral body" and vibrations came which they also come with a sound of "Angelic choir- aaaa" I found myself unable to "move" my astral body and I thought that must've been the 4 beers i had before i got home ))

When I was in the void, the only thing that got me out of it was the "floating stuff" all of the sudden I felt like I was getting pulled upwards and I didn't like that ). Although, the next time I get to the Void I will for sure choose to remain there for a while and try to communicate with it. Thx!

But how do you usually get out of the void? Do you just snap back to your physical body or you go through another lower focus first like I did with the lucid dream where i thought I woke up but I didn't?

Welcome to the Pulse!

The 3 Dimensional Darkness/Void has been widely discussed. There seems to be fairly common agreement about the experience, but with some qualifications by notable people with experience in the matter. Our friend and esteemed contributor Volgerle put together a very extensive summary of examples, perspectives and insights into the matter...a long read but very worthwhile...it should serve to answer some of your questions. It is found in the first Board, at the top in the blue highlighted "stickies" section, which within each Board, can provide valuable insights into some of the more pertinent questions.

https://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome-to-out-of-body-experiences!/the-void/

Nice to meet you EscapeVelocity!

Thanks for sending the link! I think I previously might've read a part of it but I'm not so sure. Thank you for mentioning it as I was really looking for some void talk!

I want to thank you guys for taking the time to read and reply to my post! You are deeply appreciated!


Thanks,
Eddie

[Lumaza]

 Hello Eddie. I have enjoyed your writing here.

 It seems to me that you are having all kinds of "non-physical" experiences, just not the ones that you are looking for. Before I go any further with a possible answer to your questions here I need to know "what do you think a Dream is".

 Volgerie wrote that fantastic thread about the "void" and I would read it at least a few times. There is so much great info packed in it.

 You are in great hands with all the advice that is being shared with you here. Sometimes you can go into "overload" if too much info is shared all at once.

 My key to "void" experiencing is learning to mentally move yourself forward into the darkness before your closed eyes. The darkness will almost immediately take on a depth. Moving backwards away from it can get really bizarre too.

[EscapeVelocity]

Eddie-

Along with Lumaza's very pertinent question on what a dream is?, I will add a suggestion or two...

You are asking how to move beyond your Void experience and directly enter Frank's Focus 3. My answer to that is not in absolute terms (saying that it cannot ever happen), but rather in more general terms, that it usually does not happen that way. It is a more gradual, step-by-step process...in Frank's Focus terminology, you do not go from F1 to F4 or even F3. You have much to learn within F2 before you begin working in F3 or F4. You may get short glimpses of those other levels and if so, great...but realize that much learning has first to occur in F2.

I have participated in 5 week-long Monroe Institute courses and we do not begin at Focus 35...we start at Focus 10 and then 12 and then 15 and 21. In other courses, we work within Focus 27 and back through 22, 23, 24, 25 and 26. Later courses take us to F35 and beyond...it is all just labels of convenience for just where in the consciousness spectrum we are, but my point is that experience with each level is required to build understanding (especially in an energetic sense) that helps us move upward/outward within the spectrum.

In reading your responses here, I realize that you already are using very workable and reliable techniques. You don't need any new techniques; what you need is an understanding of the experiences you are already getting.

When you sleep for 4 hours, then awaken and observe yourself as your physical body returns to sleep...that is the Wake, Back To Bed technique or WBTB. I used that tech very often, even now. The various mantras and meditation techs you describe, they involve a fair amount of time, but they seem to get results for you.

But each time, you are rejecting the results! When you are in the Void and you begin to feel that floating "pull" upward, that is the next stage in consciousness movement...do not resist it!  Go with it! Follow it! Yes, it is exciting and quite scary, at first! Do not be afraid and go with it; it is part of the transition process. And don't necessarily expect to know where it is going to take you- Go with the Flow! And just accept whatever environment you find yourself in- there is something to be learned there.

Same thing with the Vibrations. Any time you get vibrations, it is an energetic signal that something is shifting...go with it! I know the vibes can get a bit terrifying early on, but after a hundred or so experiences, you learn to trust the vibrations, lol.

These two sensations can be thought of as "exit" sensations; I would also call them "transition" sensations. Like a rollercoaster, just trust and enjoy the ride! This also involves controlling your emotions such as excitement and fear...part of the test, you might say.

EV

[Volgerle]

Nice to meet you Volgerle!
(...)
But how do you usually get out of the void? Do you just snap back to your physical body or you go through another lower focus first like I did with the lucid dream where i thought I woke up but I didn't?

Both of what you mention is possible. I choose to be lazy    and copy the part from my Void article on this sub-topic here:


VOID Entries & Exits

Entry:

I mostly enter the Void from sleep paralysis after an induction which happens for me after 3 hours of sleep already. This is more or less the so-called Wake-Back-To-Bed strategy, a term coined by Albert Taylor.

The best 'body exit' or 'Void entry' strategy is in my view akin to the method of 'Phasing'. I call it 'teleporting' or 'jumping' though. I was taught to use it instead of any kind of exit movement during my 'Don't-Roll-For-The-Void' experience (see above). So then I am in sleep paralysis or vibrational state (with or without vibrations) and just 'click' or 'teleport' into the Void. Normally, we all remember a short 'blackness phase' during each 'classical' exit technique, too, so this means we might go through the Void anyway (see more on this as a speculation in Part V). So this is just about using this common short window of opportunity to 'stop' there and stay in the 3D Blackness. Normally the view opens up quickly and I am 'there'.

In one experience I tried to enter it from a Lucid Dream. I tried to 'dissolve' the scenery (F2 according to Kepple) around me and affirmed to be taken to the Void. I ended up in a kind of light zone and it might in this case even have been the white Void although I cannot be sure of this. Since I was in an astral dream scenery before my entry into this white area this would make sense due to the White Void's closer proximity to manifested realities. I then asked a question and demanded an answer by sound. Indeed I heard an answer by a female voice but it was too low ('far away') to be understood. This can happen in the (dark) Void, too.

I will further work on this method and try to remember that I want to access the Void (or F3) from this area, too.

Exit:

I can leave the Void by different states of consciousness. I made some acronyms of the ones that mostly ocurred to me.

FOWAP - Fade-Out With Astral Projection (F3) (or Lucid Dream (F2)); also: VAP - Void Appendix Projection
FOWUP - Fade-Out With Waking Up
FOWULD - Fade-Out With Unlucid Dream

FOWUP is what happens most often to me. This is of course the most helpful type for journalling since you can immediately jot down your memories for the dialogue transcript.

FOWULD can happen but it is rare. It is the least conducive to bring back memories, as a matter of fact. Mostly it is 'normal' dreaming (so it happens in F2). It is possible with lucid phases, too. Then it would be more of a FOWAP (taking place in F2 or F3) for me.

FOWAP is also common. To make it clear: This does not include being shown pictures in the Void because the 'background' in that case is still the 3D Blackness or swirls (Type A or B). It rather refers to 'exits' from the Void and 'entries' into full astral sceneries instead. This is of course also the usual 'travel' or 'teleportation' mode by using the Void as a portal to reach an astral or mental plane. However, in these FOWAP cases the projections were helpful in answering a question posed in the Void before. So they were connected (or 'appended', hence my term 'VAP') via my intent to the Void experience.

[Eddie333]

Hello Eddie. I have enjoyed your writing here.

 It seems to me that you are having all kinds of "non-physical" experiences, just not the ones that you are looking for. Before I go any further with a possible answer to your questions here I need to know "what do you think a Dream is".

 Volgerie wrote that fantastic thread about the "void" and I would read it at least a few times. There is so much great info packed in it.

 You are in great hands with all the advice that is being shared with you here. Sometimes you can go into "overload" if too much info is shared all at once.

 My key to "void" experiencing is learning to mentally move yourself forward into the darkness before your closed eyes. The darkness will almost immediately take on a depth. Moving backwards away from it can get really bizarre too.

Nice to meet you Lumaza!

Well, now my understanding of a dream is that it is still a projection with a lower level of awareness. I always thought when you dream you are accessing your subconscious mind and all of the beliefs you have. Although since I started meditating and trying to consciously project more, of course my awareness increased during dreams and also it happened a couple times that my dream will play out exactly like that the next day in real life so i'm not so sure anymore that it's only your subconscious.

I tried to do that a few days ago and I think I know what you are referring to. While I was observing myself go to sleep I paid attention to the blackness and tried to emerge myself into it and as few dream characters started popping up it was like they were in the blackness in different directions but I could not see them I could "feel" that they are there. And if you are referring to try to do this like from a lucid dream state I weirdly find that harder ))) but for sure it's something I will try more

Eddie-

Along with Lumaza's very pertinent question on what a dream is?, I will add a suggestion or two...

You are asking how to move beyond your Void experience and directly enter Frank's Focus 3. My answer to that is not in absolute terms (saying that it cannot ever happen), but rather in more general terms, that it usually does not happen that way. It is a more gradual, step-by-step process...in Frank's Focus terminology, you do not go from F1 to F4 or even F3. You have much to learn within F2 before you begin working in F3 or F4. You may get short glimpses of those other levels and if so, great...but realize that much learning has first to occur in F2.

I have participated in 5 week-long Monroe Institute courses and we do not begin at Focus 35...we start at Focus 10 and then 12 and then 15 and 21. In other courses, we work within Focus 27 and back through 22, 23, 24, 25 and 26. Later courses take us to F35 and beyond...it is all just labels of convenience for just where in the consciousness spectrum we are, but my point is that experience with each level is required to build understanding (especially in an energetic sense) that helps us move upward/outward within the spectrum.

In reading your responses here, I realize that you already are using very workable and reliable techniques. You don't need any new techniques; what you need is an understanding of the experiences you are already getting.

When you sleep for 4 hours, then awaken and observe yourself as your physical body returns to sleep...that is the Wake, Back To Bed technique or WBTB. I used that tech very often, even now. The various mantras and meditation techs you describe, they involve a fair amount of time, but they seem to get results for you.

But each time, you are rejecting the results! When you are in the Void and you begin to feel that floating "pull" upward, that is the next stage in consciousness movement...do not resist it!  Go with it! Follow it! Yes, it is exciting and quite scary, at first! Do not be afraid and go with it; it is part of the transition process. And don't necessarily expect to know where it is going to take you- Go with the Flow! And just accept whatever environment you find yourself in- there is something to be learned there.

Same thing with the Vibrations. Any time you get vibrations, it is an energetic signal that something is shifting...go with it! I know the vibes can get a bit terrifying early on, but after a hundred or so experiences, you learn to trust the vibrations, lol.

These two sensations can be thought of as "exit" sensations; I would also call them "transition" sensations. Like a rollercoaster, just trust and enjoy the ride! This also involves controlling your emotions such as excitement and fear...part of the test, you might say.

EV

Hey EscapeVelocity,

Great point! What I am trying to do is get to the void and then learn how to get from the void in frank's focus 3. The reason I'm so eager to get there is that I want to interact with people that have passed or guides, helpers, etc. I want to reach focus 3 as fast as i can cause that was the only real reason I got into bruce's afterlife knowledge book when i was a kid and why my spiritual knowledge thirst sparked in the first place. But I understand your point, although it's easy for you to say because you already tapped into all of the focuses ))) patience is really not my strong point it never really worked on me )))

I didn't know there's a name for the method I'm using that's cool. YESS - each time I panicked when unexpected stuff that I felt is not in my control started happening )) But as you mentioned, they only happened when I was close to the "next level" so that's a great perspective i'm gonna keep in mind.

Last night for example I got lucid in a dream, started flying and then again I sat in lotus position in the air, closed my eyes trying to do the same thing I did the first time, but I was trying to feel it more than think of going to it. And I think it was working because I was getting a glimpse of a 3d blackness then when the vibrations started coming and I was feeling like i'm starting to float upwards again (all of this in 1 or 2 seconds), I immediately thought FINALLY I DID IT IT'S HAPPENING and the excitement f'd it up as it kind of returned me to my physical body only hearing the uououououou waves that I usually hear in the void ( for 1 sec I felt like I was in both places at the same time )

So yeah, you are right, I definitely have to control my excitement now as the fear is slowly going away.

Both of what you mention is possible. I choose to be lazy    and copy the part from my Void article on this sub-topic here:

Hey Volgerle,

Thanks for copying the quote from your void article. I'm definitely on the Void thread right now as we speak I'll read everything I can get my hands on.


Thank you everyone for your replies! ,


Eddie

[Xanth]

Well damn... I don't think I can add anything to this thread.  Great job everyone. 

Eddie, welcome to the Pulse. 

[Lumaza]

Well, now my understanding of a dream is that it is still a projection with a lower level of awareness. I always thought when you dream you are accessing your subconscious mind and all of the beliefs you have. Although since I started meditating and trying to consciously project more, of course my awareness increased during dreams and also it happened a couple times that my dream will play out exactly like that the next day in real life so i'm not so sure anymore that it's only your subconscious.

That, only the NPRs can teach you the truth. We can talk about it here until we are blue in the face, but some things you must experience for yourself, then come to "your own" conclusions. You are doing great. Remember it takes practice, patience and perseverance to succeed in accessing the NPRS while consciously aware of it.

 According to most Authors of OBEs, the most difficult way to access the NPRs is through a direct, known as Phasing approach. I beg to differ on that. The Phasing approach takes work, possibly that is why they say that. You learn more through your struggles. It is a whole different kind of "school" there.

I tried to do that a few days ago and I think I know what you are referring to. While I was observing myself go to sleep I paid attention to the blackness and tried to emerge myself into it and as few dream characters started popping up it was like they were in the blackness in different directions but I could not see them I could "feel" that they are there. And if you are referring to try to do this like from a lucid dream state I weirdly find that harder ))) but for sure it's something I will try more.

Change that line to "I paid attention to the blackness and tried to emerge myself into it and as hypnogogic imagery started popping up it was like they were in the blackness in different directions but I could not see them" and you can see what I am getting at!