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Not sure if this is the right forum for this but I've been having a discussion with someone on another forum about OOBE's which veered into the nature of consciousness and thought.

The person I am talking to believes everything is physical, and is puzzled as to why a metaphysical existence is usually always dictated on humans(or other animals). He thinks all of this is just random brain activities triggered physically by possibly barley conscious atoms and cells, an idea I think that would lead to the assertion of free will being a myth.

Anyway, the question is when does life (if ever) become just random chemical/electrical processes at work? Do Virii/Cells have "souls"?

I've been thinking about it alot and can't really come to an answer on my own, my first best guess being related to a sort of universal consciousness in regards to all forms found on the physical plane.

That's right! My first out of body experience!!  I sort of kind of screwed up my re-entry deviating from my OBE plan(though sort of not my fault as I didn't see my body, though I'm still sure it would have worked), so the experience didn't include re-entry, but I am still counting it.

Morning started off as any other, did the vibrations meditation at 10-11, then the float tank meditation from 11-11:45(these are 2 brainwave type cd's I've been using latley in addition to the BWG MAP presets), cutting it short because I wanted to get at least a little more sleep if I could due to not really being sure how much I had gotten the night before(and the fact that I was trying to get sleep and not sleep and/or vibrations/OBE that caused this isn't lost on me).

I rolled over to my right side, and my assumptions of my chances weren't doing to well, able to hear the dog barking outisde and my mom talking on the phone(i eventually yelled out at her to be quiet, as I could basically hear every single word she said), but I kept it up and stayed there on my side until as usual out of nowhere the vibrations came, as strong as ever.

I remembered the third eye trigger and moved my eyes up the best I could, the vibes getting even more intense, to a point past any intensity that I ever had before, including some very strange pattern like open eye looking closed eye visions of rings of metal or something(i think) around a zooming tunnel(i think). With this came(my best guess) a sort of flashing in and out of conciousness that almost made me lose my calm mindset and pull out of it it was so intense(and more importantly new and unexpected) but I quickly schwelched any fear and let the intensity continue, until the point where the vibes returned to thier normal level and just sort of evened out and nothing was happening.

Now was the time where I decided to stop laying there and take action, unlike previous attempts where I assumed I could just will myself or imagine it or hope for it(i do remember during the vibes(either before during or after the very intense part) trying to imagine myself floating up at the ceiling like monroe's first OBE, and I do think it worked at least partially, but I couldn't completely transfer my awareness there permanently. I also remember trying to get tugged out by my legs rising again like my last near OBE, and again sort of being able to feel it but not working completely. There were probably alot of other things that happened during those few moments in time that are now lost to me, but I am more glad I was able to remember the proceeding events, even if they aren't crystal clear), and going with the past few near obe's where I was able to move my seemingly physical body to find out it was truely my astral body I decided to go ahead and try it out, the worste thing happening being another fading of the vibes which I may still be able to get back.

I started with my left arm(I still felt myself on my right side at this point, something totally new during the vibrations/obe feelings, though then again there was no loss of conciousness that could have been when I turned over), fairly positive the covers were completely over me/my arm and was able to lift it with no problem at all. I then brought it back down feeling for the covers and feeling them clearly in the spot my arm had come up through, moving from side to side making sure it did in fact cover my entire body(possibly feeling myself on my back now, but unsure)where my arm had come from.

Now I decided to go all for it and turned back over onto my back, worrying that I was in fact moving my physical body as I could somewhat sense the covers over me being moved and the vibrations starting to diminish(though there was that sort of extra "Something else" feeling that made me continue as my feelings/atmosphere was different from waking reality and possible even dreaming/lucid dreaming reality(not totally sure on this one as I can't remember the feelings for sure and haven't been able to remember the exact feelings from my few lucid dreams for sure either).

I began to try and sit up, and thinking back I do think it was at least partially mental at the time, but seemingly at least using my physical. I remember for sure little glimpses of my room breaking through(but in the same "Sensing" not seeing blue "Daredevil vision" like haze) as I assumed I may be opening my eyes(but soon remembering I still had my sleep mask on so even if the eyes i were opening were physical I wouldn't have been able to see), but again still continueing.

After I sat up about half way I was then jolted out, able to fully control myself without having to use the physical but only the mental(i think this is what i account for the sudden shot up, at least halfway to my roof once cleared of my body). Once out there floating I knew I had done it and through past experience could moderatly know how to control what I was doing, but also knew to stay completely calm and emotionless, starting up my obe plan(from the MAP book the obe plan for first few obe's the idea is to keep it short to make sure to remember, and suggestion being a sort of triangle from your body to 2 other objects in the room to go to, feel and examine before coming back to physical reality), aiming myself down and to my right towards the chair I have used, and sort of going back to that half mental half physical control set.

I was able to look down at the chair and feel its arms just as I did during my practices, it feeling exactly as I remember it(to the best I can remmeber now) unsurprisingly, the thing actually surprising me was my perception of my arms(and later that the chair was completely empty of my cd player and robe I keep there, this I didn't notice at that point)which looked exactly like my physical arms(I had always assumed I would see them as white transparent energy).

Not spending too much time on that I quickly turned(to better tell the story at least, I don't believe I felt any turn but simply changed my point of view. I don't remember having 360 view, but I did keep my awareness somewhat centered on what I was doing)to the desk, and glided over to it performing the 2nd part of the obe plan, this time remembering to say in my mind how I was focusing and feeling the desk, and this time noticing that the desk was pretty much completely bare(excluding my keyboard and monitor, and oddly enough my little plastic container I keep my medicine in that I haven't used in quite awhile, but the rest of the desk(including my tv/cable box) was oddly empty even to me in that state), but again I didn't get hung up on it finishing feeling it again to the best I can remember the exact same feeling it is in physical reality, again while seeing my identical looking astral arms as physical arms, then turned back focusing on the bed.

I looked at where I had come from, the covers moved(only in my mind I'm sure)and my body missing(this didn't surprise me as I have read about how the body can be missing when the subconcious mind cannot accept seeing it, at least (hopefully) only during beginning OBE's(and I liked that better then the other possibility of it just being another lucid dream), so because of this(and because of my arms being an exact representation of my physical) i decided to detract from my obe plan and add one quick little step of looking in the mirror.

I went to my mirror first in my room, but for whatever reason now it was too dark and I could barley make out my eyes that seemingly looked a bit dilated. I floated through my door and into the bathroom(oddly enough(or not) having no trouble at all doing this, actually having a bit of trouble remembering it as i took it so casually at this point, even though I still was sort of "fumbling with the controls" so to speak)looking in the big mirror and again seeing my physical body, represented as accuratly as I can remember(though again I do think my eyes were somewhat dialated)right back at me, though definitely didn't feel the same, looking back at myself I did have an eerie sort of odd feeling where I almost lost my awareness of which one was actually me, and felt myself almost slipping into a dream(this is extremly hard to confirm for me as the shadow memories are so similar to dream memories to begin with its hard to know when the feeling of being in a dream started).

I decided to get back in my body while I could, my first thought being to go through the wall i was facing and looking at into my room where I would then be on top of my body, momentarily forgetting the whole mirror into alternite dimention rule I had read in astral dynamics. This is where it gets a little hard to remember as I did start in my mind the thought and desire to do that, but right afterwards remembered the mirror thing, possibly causing me to aim for the mirror and not the wall if I even had a chance at bypassing the mirror in the first place. It was then I am fairly sure I totally lost conciousness and drifted off into a dream.

This dream was to the best I can remember a false awakening where I sat up in my bed(taking time to notice the unmessed sheets, something I forgot to do when actually awaking) and starting to write down keywords(the only one i remmeber is the one I did use for my actual journal as I waited for my comptuer to load up to write this which was OOBE #1!). I'm fairly sure it moved onto into other directions or into an entirely different dream as I stayed asleep for 20-30 minutes(rough guesstimite depending on how much time i spent exiting and out of body, though I doubt it could have been more then 10 minutes), but when wakening my priority was remembering the OBE and not the dream.

So I'd like to hear your thoughts on this...was it an OBE filled with reality fluctuations or was it just another lucid dream?

Hi UnNamedGuy,

Hi I'm an Advanced Certified Hypnotist,  do you have a recliner?  If so have it tilted slightly but still having the feeling of sitting in a up right position.

I also use Reiki on some of my clients with the hypnosis for their AP travels in groups.

Also use a memory foam and place around neck if you can find one.

If you have any questions on deepening your trance levels let me know and I'll assist you.

Sincerely,
Frank (hypnoitst1)

No no recliner, though the chair i do have(computer chair) leans back a bit, though I always thought that'd be wrong as most of what I've read says to sit up strait, and whenever I try and lean back I put too much pressure on my lower body and my butt starts to hurt after 15-25 minutes distracting me from the meditation and making it pretty impossible to do.

As for the memory foam, not really sure what that is but I've tried using a neck pillow, but again if I can somehow get my head to lean back while sitting up(the neck pillow kinda just pushes it out more actually i might think)it starts to get cramped after 5-10 minutes.

My last few sessions sitting up I've just tried letting it sit up as strait as I can guess(hard to tell once i've started as I can be pretty dissasosiated), and try to ignore any of the wobblings I get.

As for the trance, any hints or anything you want to tell me would be great . I'm actually using the Mastering Astral Projection book/progream and haven't gotten up to the trance part yet(on week 4 now, trying my best to feel my chakra's being activated but only really can feel it with a lil help from pot), and don't really want to move on until I can...but don't want to over work them..if I am at all.

I have mostly been meditating while lying down, and have had pretty decent progress so far(i think), but after reading Robert Bruce talk about sitting vs. laying I decided to go and give that a try again.

My first few sessions were sitting, but I could never totally relax enough, and I think my progress so far helped that along, as I get some pretty decent sensations compared to lying down, and disconnect pretty well from most of my body. The problem I am having is my neck.

I have a neck pillow I have played around with, but whenever I try and have my head lay back a bit it cramps up. The one position it sort of feels natural in is strait up with no support. This actually had me envisioning people in the lotus and full lotus position, but I wonder, can the neck muscles really be fully relaxed in that position? Also I definitely notice some slight wobbling.

A few weeks ago during one of my meditations i had an almost OOBE exit, where I felt myself being pulled down my body and bed, as if i was lying on a blanket someone was pulling from the other end of the bed, until i got to the edge and felt myself fall. I stopped, and could relatively feel myself at the position of the floor at the end of my bed.

I couldn't see anything though, and actually(to my regret and annoyance at myself)opened my eyes to try to see. This made me open my physical eyes and I was right back in bed where I started looking up at the ceiling.

The interesting part of this though is I wear a sleeping mask to sleep, so even if my eyes had opened all I would have seen was black, and this wasn't just seeing it was crystal clear, better then my sight normally(i wear glasses). Even more strange is I also had a blue haze sort of overlapping my vision of another vision, from the eyes of myself laying on the floor at the end of the bed. This lasted only a second or two then just faded away, and pretty soon after that I fell asleep.

Thanks for you reply, i do try and do energy raising numerous times per day, but usually just work on the chakra once, during my afternoon meditation. Today again i got pretty much no feelings or reaction at all and I tried pretty hard, and I again noticed the muscles tensing down there.

Every time I inhale, no matter how hard i try(and I've tried very hard, to the point of almost pushing out urine, which caused alot of tension in the legs)i cannot get these muscles to stay relaxed, and it is slightly aggravating, as I'm not sure if I'll be able to get out of my body if not ever muscle is relaxed(I've never read these muscles mentioned but assume they are included in "total body relaxation").

Any thoughts on this or the base chakra? Anyone? Thanks.

Hi all, I have been browsing these forums for a few weeks now but just signed up now as I am having some slight difficulty activating my base chakra.

I have been meditating and working on OOBE for going on 4 months now, starting with Monroe's hemi-sync and now using Robert Bruce's MAP program. I spent a good 3 weeks on week 3 trying to perfect the energy raising and silencing of the mind, which i have gotten somewhat decent at(can go 30-40 seconds without a thought if i really focus hard, 15-20 seconds now pretty easily), but moving onto week 4 I have hit a stop.

I don't think I am activating my root chakra at all, or very little, even though I am doing exactly as it says, raising energy from my legs to the spot, brushing stirring and ripping(like bread) as well as imagining strong bright light emanating from that spot after the ripping, and focusing my body awareness there with some moving as i brush and such.

Yesterday I got no reaction at all doing this, even though I did it for a good 10 minutes(as well as doing it again in later meditation sessions) and today i focused heavily on it for 15-20 minutes, and possibly got some effects, but they were barley noticeable. Possibly some pressure and a slight throbbing that stayed in that spot for about 10 minutes after I stopped meditating.

Am i doing it right? Is there any other techniques that can be done to help activate this chakra? I have noticed that the muscle down there tends to tense up very slightly as I breath in, and I tried to keep it fully relaxed focusing down there, but I think that tensed up muscles in my upper body(hard to tell, I'm very disassociated at that point). I planned on continuing to stay on this day till i got some definite reactions, but don't want to overstimulate the base chakra(if i am stimulating it at all) and not focus on any of the others. Any help in this regard would be greatly appreciated.

Another question is the full body circuit, described as moving the awareness up through the legs while sponging energy up and around down to the sub navel energy storage center, which I am kind of able to do, but am much easier able to focus my awareness at the top of my head and use my astral arms to sponge the energy up(Staying at the top and trying to feel this coming up) and then joining it as it goes around the head down the throat and to the storage center(i usually get a buzz or vibration as I join in and push it down my awareness going with it), and I also stumbled onto a method where I just will an energy flow up through my feet through the entire lower half of my body, forming it into a steady stream as it goes over my head and strait down the center of my upper body to the energy center.

My question is are these methods working in raising energy or would I have to be able to perfectly feel myself going up through my legs, chest/arms neck and then around down the top of my body? I have been raising energy at least a month and have notice no real difference in my energy during the day, in fact I am still pretty tired most of the time.

Thanks for any help