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isnt the existance of the sun evidence of heat being generated from the astral ? just a thought

Nodes

I always thought the sun's heat was evidence of energy given off by nuclear reactions in the sun. It's pushing it a bit to say its evidence of a hot astral plane  

I get a very similar thing on the way out of a good lucid dream. Before I fully wake up, I almost always get this flat 'board' in front of me, seems about 2ft from my eyes. It's always a chequered pattern, like wallpaper and extends apparently infinitely in all directions. It's pin-sharp in detail and usually monotone but the hue varies, I've not seen any writing yet. I found I can will my viewpoint around but nothing much changes as far as the detail is concerned, once I saw a 'rip' with light behind. It lasts about 15-20 seconds before going blurry then I'm awake. I wonder if it's anything like the astral plane entry portals Robert Bruce shows on the rear cover of Astral Dynamics ? Could be I'm way far out like miles not 2ft, which is why it only looks like wallpaper.

Horror flicks you say? Monroe talked about "demons" and "monsters" in his book. I don't know what I'd do if I came across a NE.  :scared2: Maybe put on the old  :boxing2: and have a crack at them!  :nod:  

Hmm I'm all for ignoring, shooing away the negs but after reading Robert Bruce's book on the subject I would preferably give them a wide berth rather than treat it as a kind of videogame distraction, you could get more than you bargain for. He was almost killed by a particularly powerful demon which possessed him. Thankfully, we are told this is extremely rare and you would have to put yourself deliberately in a dangerous position as he did to have that kind of almost-total possession happen, but it sure made me want treat them with a little respect

Just what is the purpose of such unintelligible claptrap ? It reads like one of those internet translation services where the semantics are completely lost in a jumble of loosely-related words and phrases. It reminds me of a book I read about autism, where the afflicted people often write pages and pages of apparently complex prose, which on closer examination is utterly meaningless to all but the original author.

Any chance of an abridged version for mere mortals such as us ?

I was wondering if your 'demon' may have been your guide ? They say that our fears can overlay benign or even loving spirits with frightening features so that even your dear old spirit granny might appear like something nasty as she tries to reach out to you. Or it could be another human projector trying to make contact ? The little I know about low-order negs leads me to believe they need you to be frightened and if you are not they can't stay around much. The fact that it seemed benign would lead me to believe it was not a neg but your fears imprinting on something or someone wanting to make contact. Could be you missed out on a message or something meant for you. I don't have a solution, maybe just squaring up and forcefully demanding to know it's true identity or form might have done it ? Who knows, interesting experience anyway.

Bruce, Monroe, Moen and other experienced explorers say there is no single Hell in the traditional sense, ie. where the bad people go for eternal punishment. They maintain that people create their own hells with their belief systems. So if you have a nasty mindset when you die, or you simply believe you are deserving of punishment, then you'll either gravitate to an area where there are others like you (obviously it will be 'hellish') or you create your own personal hell, probably shared with tormentors your mind has created for you. They say you just stay there until you change your beliefs, could be a very long time or a just short time. Then you 'go to the light', which generally means a better place where you can be debriefed and made whole again. It's all fascinating, but I confess I am looking forward to experiencing it for myself before I believe any of it for sure (I mean before physical death )

check out Frank's posts on phasing in the astral faq....out of body experiences actually take place within ourselves when we think we are in an astral plane its probably your own imagination.  maybe you have already been within yourself

Hmm this post seems to be pretty out of tune with all the literature I've read on the subject, not to mention probably all the posts in this forum. Not saying your reactionary, but it seems to be the general consensus that your consciousness does somehow manifest in a form outside of your physical body and that the 'astral' is indeed a 'realm' with a kind of geography which can be explored. Saying 'it's all in our heads' probably isn't what most people here would agree with, but hell, no-one can say anything for certain about this topic, that's why it's so fascinating

Those squealing/screeching sounds seem to be very common, I get what sounds like that awful feedback noise when you place a microphone too close to a speaker. Some people get banging and crashing and even shouting, though it's never clear who's doing the shouting. Most experts say it is a kind of auditory hallucination and it usually preceded the vibrations associated with immenent OBE. So it's a good thing

Man that was a terrifying read, looks like we're all in for a pretty grim future, it's downhill from here ...  :confused:

Yeah it looks like you are maybe becoming clairaudient. I heard my first one the other night when settling down to sleep on my own, a girl's voice close to my left ear just said 'hello!'. Really made me jump, I was suddenly wide awake. I've never had that before, I just wonder if it's to do with trying to have an OBE and all this stuff we do here, like these are positive signs of psychic development. She sounded nice though, so I'd like to hear from her again. Musn't tell the wife though I think as long as the voices aren't telling you to do stuff against your will, there's nothing to be worried about. You could maybe try asking for a helper to come and show you why this is happening. Maybe it is the helper ?

The only time I have ever felt anything other than those two emotions was in the first year or two when projecting, and I would find myself hurtling through blackness at unbelievably fast speeds.  I was scared that I would smack into something really hard and get hurt, but that never happened either!

Robert Monroe did just that in his first book - smacked into a huge impenetrable barrier at high speed. It's one of the scariest parts in all his accounts, although he wasn't hurt as such, he was there for a long time (an hour maybe ?) and could not penetrate or go around it, nor return to his body. He prayed, screamed for help and cried his heart out - nothing worked and he was completely alone up against this steel wall - until he realised he had to backtrack and move away in the direction he came, only then did he return to his body. What if that hadn't worked either ? Got to admit that shook me up a bit when I read it. I suppose he was very much a frontiersman and really pushed things to the limit, so that situation might not befall novices like most here ? And he did get back in the end

I've had a few (short-lived) OBE's and lots of lucid dreams, all of the OBE's and most of the LD's have me starting out in or near the house I grew up in. I haven't been there for 15 years and it's half-way around the world in the UK. Glad to see I'm not the only one affected by this, must be some kind of comfort thing you create because it's such an unfamiliar state.

Thanks, that was a great read, good site too. I've recently realised most of what I thought were AP experiences I'd had were in fact lucid dreams of the type described there. Looks like I will need to do more dreaming research and that site looks a good place to start.

No real ebooks to my knowledge. But you can download his first book via any P2P network like Direct Connect or Kazaa. I once saw his second book too but probably I was just hallucinating.

This post is apparently against some law of Nature cause my comp crashed many times trying to post this. I made another post at first to confuse Karma. I had to try it anyway because Lao Tse once said also that whatever goes against the Way ceases to live.

PM me for your illegal copy

I reckon Mr M is trying to tell you something. Why don't you just tell the guy to go to his local bookstore and steal a copy when no-one's looking ? Pretty much the same deal as that rotten P2P-thieving, it all stinks  

Why is it when people predict the end of the world, it's always safely a few years in the future ? It's never like a week Tuesday, or tomorrow just after breakfast. I think the reason is that no-one is going to remember in 6 years that a person predicted it, and when we get to 2013 and nothing has happened, he or she is safe from criticism, who's going to remember what they said all that time ago ? I seem to remember the world was going to end in 1996, 2000 and 2004 - it didn't. If someone comes along and says they know for sure the world will end in a very short time, say a few days, and they say, if it doesn't they promise to be around for everyone to have a laugh at their non-existent credibility, then I might take it a little more seriously.

No offence meant to anyone here BTW - just a general gripe about the doomsayers

Whilst trying to AP the other day, a thought occurred to me. The astral planes are often compared to the electromagnetic spectrum, ie. the visible part of the spectrum is analogous to waking consciousness and the invisible part of the spectrum from ultra-violet upwards is likened to the astral planes, which similarly increase in 'frequency'. OK, nice analogy, but I then thought the light spectrum extends then other way into invisibility, from infra red and down through lower frequencies, maybe all the way to ultra-long gravity waves if the theory is correct. So what about the astral planes - could there be a anti-astral frequencies below that which we perceive as waking consciousness and earthly matter ?

Anyone familiar with popular cosmology will now that the current theory of the make up of the cosmos states that a huge percentage (I think it's 75%) of the mass of the universe is unseen 'dark matter'. It's really mysterious stuff which cannot be detected using current technology, but it must exist if the current theories are to be believed.

So my idea was that maybe dark matter is something like the stuff of the astral planes, but more dense than normal matter. It's thought that the astral planes get progressively less dense, or are of a higher 'frequency', the higher you go. Well perhaps matter also has invisible planes descending into lower frequencies, ie. more and more dense, in the other direction. That might be what dark matter is. OK, we know the astral planes are closely related to thought, they may actually be the same thing. How that would relate to the 'anti-astral' is open to debate. I doubt these sub-levels would be visitable as such, if there was such a thing they might be more like the 'foundations' for matter - or something  :confused:

Where the astral planes are the supposed source of many apparitions, visions and UFO-type experiences, I wonder if the anti-astral is the realm which holds the answers to many of the baffling qualities of sub-atomic particles which quantum physicists struggle to comprehend as well as the bizarre permutations of General and Special Relativity.

Well it was just a thought, please feel free to shoot it full of as many holes as you like  

Tried a new AP technique today which worked wonders - get up early, have breakfast quickly, go back to bed and try to AP - ear plugs and sleep mask will help. It's ideal if you are like me and take a long time to come round in the morning, as you are still physically tired but mind becoming alert. Plus it's light so no dark RTZ freaks/weirdness to contend with. Anyway, after 15 mins of listening to my breakfast gurgling down (BTW I've also found that a slight stomach upset, wind or whatever aids AP) I pop out into what I think is the lower astral. I think that's what it is because of the bizarre mixture of old and new buildings and crazy road layout. I often see places like this, very much like the chaotic lower astral levels Robert Bruce mentions in his AstralDynamics book. It's very sunny and quite hot. There are the usual inhabitants wandering around, apparently purposefully, but my previous attempts at conversation on this level verge on the surreal - last time I asked a guy where he was from he just shouted "I'm too purple to be stupid !". Typical, I thought  :confused:

I attempt at some high-level flight but I still get that 'astral gravity' thing which soon pulls me back down again - bah ! So I wander off through the narrow twisting alleys of this chaotic city, most of the buildings are a mix of 19th century and abandoned building sites, many still have all the dilapidated scaffolding around them - weird. Anyway, I ignore the few people I see and then I spot a black motorcycle lying on the ground on its side. Looked like an old Honda 250 from the eighties. So I lift it upright - it's heavy and I can smell petrol - cool. A quick check of my hands to keep things on track (that really works wonders in prolonging the experience !) and I throw my leg over. I see my hands now have black leather gloves !. I press the red starter with my right thumb and she fires up, this is going to be great I think to myself, I must try and find some open highway.

Clutch in, left foot clicks into first, drops the clutch and off I go ! First thing I notice is this thing is sooo underpowered, probably a variation of astral gravity, ie. my disbelief is creeping in. Anyway, it moves along at about 30mph which is fast enough for these little alleys. This is great, I'm laughing my head off. I keep coming to steep steps up and down, it's like a scene out of the Italian Job ! No problem, I rattle up and down and even though some obstructions. At one point I'm inside an old building charging through the corridors on this astral bike whooping like a idiot, then I get stuck in a room, so I rev it up and dump the clutch and I'm out through the window and back into the street. At this point I realise I am just holding the handlebars and the bike has vanished ! Never mind, I can still feel the seat in my butt and hear the engine, so I carry on, thinking if anyone else is APing here, this would look hilarious with me whizzing along in a seated position with just handlebars  

I still can't find the open highway and now the handlebars have gone too. At this point I see a train pulling out of a station and decide to get on it and see where it goes. Then I realise there is a slight scale problem as it's about one-quarter size and I have to sit on the roof. I can see now my lucidity level is dropping and no amount of hand-looking is sharpening up my perception, so I relax and pop ! Back in bed.

This is a record length AP for me, I usually only manage less than a minute oob. I guess this was about 5 mins of lucidity in all. I think the key was that I a) AP'd during the morning and was not mentally tired b) it was daylight so no fear factor, and c) I repeatedly made myself look at my hands (they looked like they had been under water for hours, really shrivelled, that was strange), that technique really works for me.

A bit of history - I used to AP in my 20's but just thought it was all in my head so never developed the skill. I started reading a few books on the afterlife recently (I'm 45 now) and inevitably came across AP again. After reading Monroe/Moen/Bruce I decided this is definitely for me ! I was quickly back into it with real enthusiasm and had a great (but short) projection to a very interesting astral realm, that convinced me more than anything I should really go for it and develop this skill as far as I could. BTW I'm not a motorcyclist, at least not in the last 20 yrs. I can't imagine why my subconcious thought that was necessary, I'm glad it happened though ! I'll see if I can go driving next time