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zorgblar,

I've been able to naturally LD for as long as I can remember. It used to be something that I thought happened to everyone so I didn't take it serious (similar to people naturally projecting). It wasn't until I started getting interested in AP and read up on it that I realised that LD is something that some other people have to try to achieve. The funny thing is, there are times when I have LD's every night, maybe even more than once. Other times there could be weeks, even months during which I don't have any (or at least not remember that I was lucid). When I don't have any and try and induce them, I find that I have just more and more trouble with it, and become more frustrated. So then I normally just leave it for a while and when it's no longer an issue it seems to come back.

As for being able to move from a conscious state into a LD, sure that's possible. Very much like having a consciously induced projection, although you move into a dream instead of exit sensations. It's happened to me when I try to incubate a dream, in other words I focus on the dream content as my body starts falling asleep. The dream incubation doesn't always work for me, but it's surprising how often I go into a dream being completely lucid from the outset. It is really powerful and exciting!

Do some scratching around on the internet. There are techniques for inducing this (it is called WILD, or wake induced lucid dreaming). My advice to you though would be not to get too hung up on techniques. Just explore the states as well as your dreams naturally and don't put pressure on yourself. Also keep a dream journal, it really helps you remember your dreams, and I believe it also forces a level of consciousness. If you're patient, it will happen.

Good reply. Yeah I guess your experiences as a child blows my theory out of the water.

tvos, sounds like you have made one or two enemies along the way! 

I intended to write this as a reply to the afterlife thread, but it's probably one on it's own.

If I may add something else to that thread, not necessarily related to what happens after death (I haven't been there yet, so don't know  ) but rather about what happens during an OBE. I like the thinking of not actually moving out of the body and around in the physical world as an astral being, but rather shifting focus on a different state of our consciousness.

The main reason for this is that every time I have had an OBE, the surroundings I had represented nothing like the physical world I know I have around my body (even when I do see my body lying there). Admittedly I have not had millions of OBE's, but I've had enough to know the difference between that state and lucid dreams. I can't come to grips with the concept of a RTZ simply because I have not been able to experience it in a realistic sense. I don't deny that it exists, because so many describe it, but I have simply not experienced it.

Instead my experience is always quite different. I go into a vibrational state (quite distinct), roll out (and this feels real enough), and look around and see things (still feels real enough), but I know these are not really there in the physical world (and not just a flowerpot where a TV should be, but whole rooms, whole regions that I explore).

With all the classic literature we have available describing the experience as leaving the body and moving around in the physical world (with the exception of the later writings around phasing etc), is it not possible that we have been conditioned to believe in a RTZ and an experience outside the body, instead of a state of mind? Is the RTZ not just a belief construct that we have created ourselves based on what we have read should be happening to us and from what we know from our physical experience of our surroundings? In other words it all exists in our minds and is not actually connected to the physical world other than through our memories of it. I think this also aligns with Frank's model and his F2oC. And it explains (at least in my opinion) reality fluctuations in a much more satisfactory way. 

Any comments or different points of view?

I visualize a small boat or dingy that's floating on nothing in front of me, and then I gently push it away. So every time a thought comes nagging it turns into a boat and then set's off into the black, leaving me by myself. The trick for me is for the motion of pushing it away to be gentle and almost automatic, otherwise that becomes a distraction in itself.

I agree about Franks perspective. It absolutely blew me away the first time I read it. I must have read it twenty times now and still I find something new every time that makes sense.

I'm curious on what your opinions are on energy raising in conjunction with OBE / AP. What are the benefits of doing this?

Robert Bruce spends a great deal of time on that in the Mastering Astral Projection book. I find the exercises he has useful, and rather enjoy doing them, but the only thing is they do seem to raise my energy levels, so to speak, ie makes me feel more awake. That then requires a lot more time doing trance work to get myself under as opposed to if I had not done any energy work in the same session.

Any suggestions? Are the two mutually exclusive, ie can I do energy work at one time but not necessarily when I do my trance work (and obviously try to AP) and would I then still reap the benefits it has on projection?

Ta, pt.

If I remember correctly Monroe had a similar incident with an astral cop guy in his first book. He couldn't figure out who this guy was that kept appearing and telling him to get out of there. Only later did he find out that whoever was president then was in the same city as he was projecting in.

Don,

May I ask what timeline you're on?

Wrt to comments on SL, yes a lot of it is used by people wanting to meet, but there is another element also developing there which is making this much more technologically viable. I attended a conference a short while ago which was hosted on SL. You have your avatar and all there, the presentation as well as live footage from some of the attendees was streamed over SL. Pretty impressive stuff. The key would be to have the right focus group.

pt

Thanks for the reply kiwibonga. It makes a lot of sense and thanks for the pointers. I had not anticipated any problems such as this, seeing as I regularly move through walls, fly etc in LD's. But obviously it's not the same. I'm encouraged by the fact that you don't think it was a dream seeing as if that was the case I would have moved through the wall! (I had a DOH! moment when I read that!)

Anyhows, thanks again. By the way, you in NZ?

Hi all,

I consider myself to be a novice or beginner in terms of AP / OBE, and am only starting out to explore the experiences. Over the last few nights (or rather early morning, I medidate normally from about 4am onwards) I had two experiences that have left me a little puzzled and I hope someone can help me out a little.

The second probably illustrates the point best. After some meditation I rolled over to get some sleep. I had some very vivid images in my mind, and realised that I was going into a LD. I participated in the dream for a short while, and then decided to try and project. I followed Bruce's technique of falling over backwards, had a falling / floating sensation, and then "came to" in a vibrational state. I rolled myself over in bed and felt like I had moved out, but couldn't see anything. I reached out with my hand until I could feel very clearly the carpet and it's texture. I imagined my eyes open and had a brief flash of vision, after which sight came slowly to me. I could see the bed next to me and the carpet below, as if I was hovering just above the side of the bed, which would have made perfect sense if I had actually rolled out of myself. I looked over to the wall and curtain which were there and clear. I had trouble moving, so decided to see if I could put my hand through the wall. This is where I met with solid resistance in the wall. I couldn't move my hand through it. Same with the floor when I tried that.

At that point I figured I must have been awake all along (not thinking that I couldn't be hovering if I was awake) and gave up. I must have fallen asleep at that stage because I woke up a short while later, but still remembering the experience.

My question then is, was this just a dream? Perhaps even a lucid dream? Or are there instances where the astral body is not able to penetrate physical objects (I seem to remember Monroe recounted some such experiences). The other experience has some of the same elements, although I was able to move through some physical objects during that experience. A bit more of a mixed bag but this post is already getting too long to bore you with those details.

Your opinions would be much appreciated.

P

bird, thanks mate. This is very helpful.

Hi, not exactly but it is similar. Bwgen refers to the Brainwave Generator application, which produces binaural beats similar to SBaGen. BwGen is not a free tool, but most of the presets that have been created (files of binaural beats for a variety of application) are free to use. You can use the "presets" of bwgen to produce wav and mp3 files, similar to what you've done.

Incidently, where did you find the focus 27 file that you used within SBaGen to create the wav? That might be a different approach for me to reach the same result.

Thanks, but these ones are not actually there, unless I'm missing something. It seems from Adrians post (going back some years) that he created bwgen presets from the original hemi sync files, thereby getting around the copyright issue. He posted them but the link no longer works. I hope someone might still be able to point me towards them.

Hi all,

Sorry if this is a daft question but I can't find the answer. I'm looking for the hemi sync presets created for bwgen (f10, f27, etc). I know that Adrian posted them a long time ago but the link doesn't seem to work anymore. I've been searching for them everywhere on the net but can't find them.

Can anyone tell me where I can get hold of them?

Thanks.