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It just makes me sad when scientific research finds something quite important to do with OBE/possibly spiritual/mind research and instead of sharing the information the two "scientists" behind it decide to market it and sell the experience.  So the price of 15,000 isnt for the machine its for the amazing experiences you will have. 

This is also why the salon in London is able to charge pretty high prices for a short experience with the Lucia

I doubt very much that they understand it..what it is that they are selling...but they have an ON and OFF switch so its all good :/

As i do think that Lucia has hit on something quite important but those behind it are like kids playing with matches.  Its all about the money they dont care or give a damn...

I hate how the world is like this - greed and capitalism own the world's soul imo.  There is no chance of any kind of spiritual revolution or change because it will never be allowed..

For 15.000 euros , some one is making money with a computer comtroled light in a frying pan .

hehe

interesting website explaining what Lucia does and its development.

http://www.clearlightfoundation.com/ebrochure.html

I posted the info before I found out about the excessive price tag 

Although I do not personally know if the Lucia works or not,

I havent tried it myself but i have read reports that it does induce similar sensations that you would get in an out of body experience.

For me - what they have discovered is a particular range of frequencies and then pre-programmed them into the Lucia device.

Is it possible to patent something like this?  ie the settings used that would work in any stroboscopic mind machine.   Its hard to believe that they have set a price of £15,000 for something that any similarly equipped mind machine could do if set at the same frequency, no?

I can remember back in the 90s i had a Mindlab mind machine that used stroboscopic light to induce varying experiences. (lucid dreaming, meditation)

Sorry but i feel the whole LUCIA business is a scam.....

The LEM (Light Eye Mind) Salon setup on facebook is a way to make quick cash from unsuspecting people in my honest opinion.  I've used various mind machines in the past and the Lucia uses the same strobe light technology.  Sure the frequencies may be different but is that worth £15,000  ?  Yes thats the price to buy the Lucia....

So yeah i find it disgusting the promotion of this when there are plenty of far far cheaper devices that can achieve the same or similar effect.

Shouldnt we be warning people about this?

[only]

Just wanted to ask this question as i havent posted in a while and received this email

Now to me this is either spam/marketing or a phishing attempt     

If its the latter i'm dissapointed as this is the only place i use my email with that is even remotely to do with OBES, astral projection etc...


I'm sorry but APing and trying to advance yourself spiritually isn't a commercial enterprise or something with which to try to exploit others less knowledgable for financial gain...

Not saying it is astralpulse but it is really dodgy i have to say...

Does our user information/emails get sold/marketed out to companies?

anyway this is the email...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello fellow Astral-Mate. I noticed you had asked a question on a blog about astral projection and wanted to let you know that you have inspired me to help others in need as well.



I have answered your question in this guide called Ten Step Astral Projection lite. I would like to offer it to you free of charge at this address: 
http://www.tenstepastralprojection.com/free-download.php



It has a 10 page pdf guide and audio book along with a binaural beat to help induce astral projection. You will also receive 4 intro videos with amazing visuals. 

I hope you enjoy 






James King

Ten Step Astral Projection


PS - If your skiping straight to the PS like I usually do, theres a really cool free astral projection guide available at: http://www.tenstepastralprojection.com/free-download.php


Unsubscribe - if you wish to unsubscribe, simply do nothing. I will not email you again unless you fill in your information at the link above. Many Thanks.

Sounds interesting!  You dont have the link for that binaural beat mp3 do you? 

Ive not been doing anything regarding obe for a while as ive been injured and the pain was distracting. (broken wrist)

Systematic Desensitization. 

Slow and gradual exposure to your fear.  Common phobia treatment.

The best thing you can do it just keep doing the whole routine over and over.  Sisyphus.....

I do the routine again and again.  I usually get to a point where i sort of jerk into awakefulnes and i feel that this is when smt is happening.  Perhaps my consciousness hold on too tightly to the reins so when there is a change i instinctively react/snap back.

The fear isnt something i can put a name to. its like bashing my head against a brick wall.  I guess if i constantly keep hitting my head against it either my head breaks or the wall does.  But it feels as if no progress is made each time.

However, there is an herbal supplement called "Fatigued to Fantastic: Revitalizing Sleep" that calms you and helps you focus.  You can get it at most health food stores or natural markets etc.  It has a lot of stuff in it, some of the ones that I remember are Valerian, Wild Lettuce, Hops.....there are more but i don't remember what.  But I can say that when I have laid down after taking it my mind was blank, perfectly focused and I was relaxed

i will Thanks

Just wondered if there is some herb or other device that can "moderately safely" almost guarantee an OBE?

What i mean is - you dont have to get past the steps of conquering fear, being utterly focused consciousness all the time. 

I cannot overcome instinctive - ingrained fear (from when i was a child)  i know the theory and plenty of methods and i am not fearful of OBEs but my rational mind has nothing to do with this.(it is no help)  Its all instinct.  I have zero control or input in this.  In which case then.... the path to overcoming fear is a very very long and bumpy one.  Like i might spend so much time on the preparation, the correct mind state etc but it is all useless if i have zero control over feeling fear which negates the obe immediately

Which is why i ask if there is a quicker way to do this.

Monroe's book  "Journeys out of the body"  & an interesting sortof book called "A Soul's journey" got me re-interested in it.  I've always had an interest in it(coz of a simple obe i had as a child).. though it has waxed and waned. 

Main reason it has waned (and i dont put tons of effort into it) is because my mental/psychological state of mind isn't brilliant - what i mean is i can constantly analyse something (even with consciousness)  When i do that with actual awareness it de-stabilizes me somewhat (i can feel it de-stabilishing me kindof)  Also - i sometimes have enough trouble living in normal reality so opening the door to AP etc etc would possibly create a heckuva lot more problems for me.  Even though i am *very* interested in it.  One of the few things i maintain an interest in really.  I should really do more meditation i guess.  (used to years ago)

congrats   sounds like it was quite intense!  I suspect that it was all very much assisted by all the preplanning and thinking you have done on the subject.

However deep you think you go...go deeper.   be fearless and bold

You could try increasing the vibrations when you feel them.  Move them around your body, increase the tempo, intensity etc.

At the end of the day fear is fear...if you let it affect you it only gets worse and you get MORE fearful.  Ive had plenty of frightening dream/nightmares especially younger when i felt they were very real which i still remember in detail.  I still get occasional scary dreams now though e.g. the other day i was utterly utterly convinced that something very frightening and threatening was going to break down the door to my flat.  To the point that i felt i had to have a weapon in my bedroom.  Ive had instances where i strongly feel i wont wake up if i fell asleep so ive stayed awake for ages.  In these sort of instances even though i dont believe in orthodox religion or God as such you can be sure i was praying!  I have read about obe encounters with negative entites and the ober has to fight them off etc.  Personally i would rather not fight them (if it happened to me at some point) i would rather help them if possible.  I think the level of threat has a lot to do with the perceiver of that threat also, especially in the astral where emotions are magnified (apparently)

I dont think we were put here -in existence- by a negative or threatening or harmful entity.  So ultimately i dont think we could come to permanent harm.   Trust in something (God, ourselves etc) is key i guess.   

okay not sure i did this right but i just had incence burning and i had the mugwort beside my pillow.  I wouldnt say i had an obe unfortunately but certainly smt weird though - at some point i was kindoff burning hot inside??  and i couldnt move really - i thought there was vibrations but they werent very strong so i dunno.  My awareness of my physical body was hrmm very very low - it seemed like my breathing was on automatic pilot etc.  My head/mind was a litle sore..more "heavy" but it was weird kind of heat inside i dunno.

The good new is that i perhaps was a the mind awake body asleep stage - my awareness was strong and not tired at all

but what should i do with the mugwort?  leave it beside my pillow?? 

got the mugwort and frankincense, a new incense burner inc charcoal blocks.  When i mentioned astral projection she gave me some sort of home made incense concoction.  So i'll see if if its any good - will maybe try tonight  fingers crossed..

William Buhlman's books are helpful also.   Smt else you might want to try --- prepare the environment like its a ritual before u settle down.  Like you reinforcing again & again your intent to project

visiting a herbal shop tmw that mugwort is on my list as well as various types of incense

could be his heart chakra and not actually his physical heart that is beating so fast.  I mention as a similar thing has happened to me.  At first i thought it was my physical heart but when i "woke up" my heart was fine and there was no evidence it had been beating like a maniac.  It can be a little unsettling unless your sure of what it is.  I think next time it beats fast try to use it to raise your energy and encourage the heart beating - let it reverbate throughout your entire being.

sorry - had back pain last couple of days which has made it difficult to atempt this.  I like the theory behind it though. (it makes sense to me)  I think i might need to try hypnosis or something because my main experience with obe/nde is associated with pain and fear and i need to find a way to effectively lower those subconscious barriers to projecting.   

I'll set aside at least 2 hours tonight to give this method a try.   What i tend to do to prepare myself - is walk into an empty dark room in my flat i stand in it for a while then i walk round touching the walls feeling the room and the darkness ..when its really quiet in my mind it creates a better atmosphere for attempts  apparently.

sure i'll give it a go tonight :thumbsup:

Does physical reality have any meaning outside of the person experiencing it? Is there any real evidence of this reality having any significant meaning? If not, then does that not mean this reality and the astral are on par with each other, at least?

Yes of course physical reality has meaning it can be explored and new things found to help benefit people you can work to help benefit others,  It can be verified by other people.    Whereas the verifyablility of a sole projecter's experience cant atm.  So basically when you talk about it to just about anyone...they think you are mad.  So yeah a big difference.  Basically physical reality = community that can work together.  Projecting = interesting individual experiences and thats it.


edit:  i'm uncomfortable with the forum format because by habit i treat it like a real face to face conversation with other people (which it isnt its quite isolating imo).  Normally in a real conversation people answer questions, there is a connection that goes beyond words, the flow of information is dynamic and...dare i say it...alive and possesses an energy all its own.

[extremely]

*small update*

read a lot more of cosmic consciousness.  *ahem*  not exactly a great fan of it but there is the odd occasion where i can relate/agree with an idea being discussed (ie it will really intrigue me)

Of much much more value and interest to me was Robert Peterson's book online.  Nearly finished - very inspiring and down to earth! This is the first guy who talks about things like "do you have your eyes open during OBE and different kinds of sight etc"

but the reall update....  had interesting experience early early this morning (4am - 6 am ish)

3 incidents.  1st one was me in a dream Projecting!  it was a dream definitely but it was about projection (i was out of the body flying around and i think helping some people??? not sure)
2nd incident i cant remember. (not sure if there was a 2nd hrmm)

now i should add that at times i am kindoff waking up and moving about in bed and such.

3rd one  i think i must have woken up again because i wake up and i have hazy consciousness (like you have when you feel yourself waking up in the morning)  and i have sleep paralysis i cant move!  My heart is beating extremely fast so fast im not sure its my actual heart doing it (this has happened before and it freaked me out big time)  I also can sense a presence above me, a figure of some kind.  Unfortunately Fear kicks in so i struggle to move my head to to see this person and im out of the paralysis and awaken. 

Good news is: a) i wasnt afraid as much.  (what i mean by this is usually for me its Instinctual pure Fear and nothing else i can do)
b) i was aware of my fear.

Whats curious about these things happening is that HOURs before going to bed i would be thinking a lot about projecting........ 

More specifically......... Anyone seen the film Dune?

But a person needs new experiences that jars something deep inside....allowing them to grow....without change.....something sleeps inside us.....and seldom awakens...the sleeper must awaken...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYKzIMyXzpU

quite bizarre hehehe... i was strongly identifying it with projecting i guess!!!

[me]

NDE/OBE when i was a child ( i think i posted about it on here)  Nothing dramatic though!!  was 4 or 5 years old was put under at the dentist. left my body hovered around the ceiling watching the dentist and assistant hovering over me (although i say me it didnt feel like me was down there)
thats about it.  Has been some slighthly unusual stuff over the years (like extremely vivid frightening nightmares and other things)

You have an astral projection to outer space and find an asteroid with incredibly large holes. You go and ask 'Show me what happened there', then you see something totally weird and unbelievable. You wake up and think 'Of course it was just a dream', but if you knew how much they're lying, you would think again.

Lying?  not sure i understand what you meant.  Do you mean when asked "what happened" they intentionally show something false?

[conduit]

Well, without spoiling the end, Monroe finds out that his 'evolved' masters were future versions of himself

ahh this is in Cosmic Journeys then? In Journeys out of the Body he has some experiences which indicate to him the possibility that "we are 'leftover laboratory animals' or perhaps the experiment is still in progress"

One experience which was very curious -  is where he is trying to get somewhere but before getting there he is stopped by someone asking him "why do you want to see the president".  I think Monroe had to make up a convincing excuse very very quickly to be allowed to pass.  Bizarre!  Astral covert agents?

Such stories aside: do you think along the lines that the physical apparatus of the brain acts as a conduit or 'conducting device' for movement/travel in consciousness across different levels/dimensions of reality? 

take all the metaphysical assumptions aside, and tell me- why do you think we're here? (I mean, humans.)  To experience? To learn?  To be happy (no fair, I answered with my opinion) let's just say that's true.  Isn't OBE another form of exploration?  experience?  learning?  So why does it have to be grander than that?
I noticed that at some times you say Ego as a bad thing and others as a good thing (Or so it seems to me, I could be wrong).  Regardless of either- the fact is, you perceive with it, you experience with it.  So what's so bad about experiencing 'a greater reality' with it?

No idea why we are here.  Maybe thats taking it too far though - there may not be a why (but we can endlessly speculate on it).  But we can look at "whats going on" and draw from that our conclusions.  I cant think of a valid biological reason why consciousness would "leave" the brain/body and act as if independent of it.  But the fact that it does should (imo) shake conventional science to its foundations.  Its a revolution of a sorts

-  but yeah i agree OBE as a form of truly extra-ordinary inner exploration.  It may be in the years to come that there will be a new "science"  The science of astral travel. 

Curiousity is a good thing.  Reading others experiences is also good.  However, the best thing you can do for yourself is to have the experience yourself.   Remember, it is easier to be a skeptic than an explorer.  My advice to you is to look into yourself rather than wait for others to present you with evidence.

Yes i'm a strong believer in finding things out for yourself certainly.  I have a binaural beat recording i might listen to tonight...hopefully it wont bring out my negative energy/emotion? due to past experience (see previous posts)  I have experienced times when i thought weird stuff was going on.  (very very rapid heart rate body asleep which possibly could have been stimulation of the heart chakra?)  Its interesting though...i would have written off my early obe experience as a dream and totally forgotten about it long ago if it wasnt extremely painful!  I guess thats a tiny worry that it will be that same kind of pain for every exit.