Messages

It's been a while since i've read (or written to) the forum... so if this subject exists on another thread, forgive me.
   I believe that the reason that I and so many other people ultimately fail at OBE attempts (even if we get to a vibrational stage and perhaps even have a limb or two float up and out of our physical body) is because our level of "trance" (eg - our mind awake/body asleep state) is not sufficiently deep. Most of us seem to agree that we dissociate from the physical every night as we sleep, but WE don't have the level of conscious control that enables SOME people to remember and consciously direct their OBE's. On that note, I've been trying to strengthen the "muscle" of my conscious mind. Throughout the day I've noticed that thousands of random thoughts float into my conscious mind, and because i'm so weak my mind does not resist these intrusions, but rather it grabs onto the most appealing/emotionally stimulating one and slips into a daydream. If you've ever stopped and observed the thoughts that enter the conscious mind (as i'm sure most of you have) you may have noticed that many creep in "behind" you... when you're not "looking" and quickly try to take root. I have a theory (although surely i'm not the first to think of it) that thoughts originate within a part of our mind that is quite "out of phase" with the physical world. These original thoughts then propagate through the range of "frequencies" toward our own physical "vibrational rate". It seems that we must gain control of the thoughts as they make their way toward physical existence, starting with the most easily controlled thoughts, those that have already manifested fully in our conscious mind, and ,as our mental "muscle" develops, working toward those that can most aptly be described as "thought pressure" or intuition. I think that as we fall asleep every night the main frequency of our minds shifts away from physical existence toward the source of our thoughts. At some point along this shift we seem to no longer be able maintain a conscious hold on our physical bodies, and our astral body et al expands and moves out of phase with the physical. If this is the case then it's no wonder that we lose conscious control almost completely when we sleep/dream. We just haven't developed the strength to control the thoughts at that subtle level.
   Anyway... enough rambling. Tell me what you think and feel free to add to or correct my thoughts in any way that seems necessary.

nathan

Has anyone had success with OBE while lying on his/her side? This is the position that i'm working from. When i lay on my back... it's comfortable and the trance state seems to come more easily, but my tongue/jaw keeps sliding back and blocking the airway as i relax. Siting upright has also been little use to me since i have no means of supporting my head (and getting it to balance as i drift off seems nearly impossible). I just want to be sure that i'm not wasting my time on this bodily position.

Thanks,
nathan

Could anyone describe (in as much detail as possible) the mental conditions needed to cause the body to fall asleep while allowing the mind to remain awake (and coherent) enough to hold this trance state or induce an OBE? Thanks

I've been learning a lot about OBE over the last couple years, but i'm having a bit of difficulty reaching the mind awake/body asleep state. I attempt to relax my body and focus my mind on something (so it doesn't wander off into some daydream/dream)so that my body will fall asleep and I'll enter a fairly constant trance state, but it seems that my level of mental activity is still keeping me from entering a trance. The times when i get closest (wave-like vibrations, feelings of limbs floating upward, etc) seem to be when i've lost focus and started to daydream. Only then do i find myself in what i believe is (possibly) the beginning of a stage of energy body expansion. When i deliberately try to loosen my focus a bit, i end up slipping into a foggy dreamy sleep. I assume that i must stay loosely focused on something (my breathing/feelings of falling) until my body's physical senses shut down, but actually doing this is... a bit like assembling a puzzle when you don't know what the final picture is supposed to look like. Any thoughts on the subject are more than welcome. thanks.

one more thing - has anyone had success witht the hemisync gateway experience cd's?

quote:Get an education

lol... what a simple... yet BEAUTIFUL comment... []

Squeek,
Derk never mentioned that he consumes ANY caffeine (in which case it couldn't keep him awake), and even if he consumes a fair amount on a regular basis his body would ALREADY have adjusted to the stimulation. In either case adding MORE caffeine certainly won't help him sleep.

Derk,
 I would suggest exercising vigorously a couple hours before going to bed, taking a relaxing shower and giving sleep another try. If this isn't enough you could read up on and experiment with pharmacologic sleep aids like benadryl (commonly suggested by western medical professionals because it makes many people drowsy) or valerian root or melatonin (if you prefer the herbal approach).
Good luck,
nstkd8

I have not yet reached wave 7, but my experiences with the gateway cd's do not seem to be leading to an OBE. I'm not yet sure if they are of any value... but i'll keep you posted.

~nathan

illusory,
 Thanks for the story and the ideas. Since i'm one of the lucky 2.5 year people it helps to get a little outside inspiration. I'm no longer willing to say that i'm on the verge of a projection, but i do learn more about what i must do with each experience (and through the experiences of othes)... and that's enough... for now[]. I'll get there when the time is right.

On a side note...  I believe that attaining a sufficiently deep level of trance is one of the only things preventing my OBE's, so i'm SURE that your experience in meditation contributed greatly to your success.

Every time i've tried this method the effort of keeping my arm balanced has kept me from entering trance. (or else it's just dropped and i've fallen asleep) However, I'm intrigued by the thought of your astral arm falling out of the real arm. Could i be doing such an apparently simple technique incorrectly??? If you could describe exactly what you do i'd appreciate it.

thanks,
nathan

Last night I was reading in Astral Dynamics that the etheric body will first separate (causing a slight floating sensation... perhaps in just the limbs) when you enter a light trance. As your level of trance deepens then the projectable double (real time double) automatically generates and a copy of your consciousness is transferred to that vehicle. I wonder if we (since i seem to be stuck at a similar location) are not in a deep enough trance and are trying to force the etheric double to project. On that note, how deep of a trance do you normally achieve before you start to feel like your limbs are floating? Can you still move your physical body quite easily? Can you hear and possibly still feel some solid parts of the physical body? Perhaps learning to reach a deeper level of trance would alleviate most of our problems.

~nathan

from sweet celestial sounds

quote:If you can go to sleep in that position, you can project from that position

Thanks for the advice everyone... since a couple of you have projected while lying on your side... it can OBVIOUSLY happen. []
~nathan

Every now and then i read something that strikes me... as well written... possibly because of a logical progression based on sound reasoning. (not easy to put into words exactly... but i got that feeling reading your post) Just thought i'd share... []

~nathan

Nick,
 I've been using wave 1 of the gateway series, and i think i'm getting some results from it. It seems to put me into what they refer to as focus 10 (mind awake/body asleep) more reliably than i can do on my own. Also... i just ordered the rest of the gateway series and should be recieving it in the mail within a couple days. I'll be sure to keep everyone posted if i find them to helpful.

~nathan

Thanks for the replies everyone... and coral... i think that getting my mind in the right "position" IS the major problem. Lots of luck to you all.

~nathan

Hi no leaf clover... thanks for the reply. I've read astral dynamics several times (it's been one of the most valuable additions to my book collection) but the suggestions contained within weren't quite enough to alleviate the problem. I don't have a suitable chair to sit upright, sitting upright in bed creates an uncomfortable situation for my spine, and lying on my back either allows my jaw and tongue to relax and slide back (cutting off my airway) or i'm held awake due to the tension required to hold my jaw/tongue in an acceptable position. Lying on my side seems to alleviate all of these problems... and i HAVE gotten to a vibrational/trance state several times, but i'd just like to know if someone has successfully projected from that position.

thanks again,
nathan

Slavo said, "Are u so weak that u cant learn it by urself?" In response... I sure hope not[], but having only limited success after a couple years is a bit frustrating. Although I firmly believe that the natural way is the best way, I CERTAINLY can't condemn anyone for turning to an apparently easy and sure-fire method of achieving the OBE. All i can say is good luck to all of you... and i hope we all get where we'd like to be.

~nathan

Nick...  I've gotten about as far as you have (and have been practicing for ~2.5 years), and I am also FAR from giving up. Any advice that people can give would be GREATLY appreciated by me as well.

(i'm still waiting for a good opportunity to try sweet celestial's get up or roll out method after drifting toward sleep for a couple minutes)

I've often wondered how hallucinogenic drugs cause one's perceptions to be altered. They seem to cause a forced dissociation of sorts from one's physical senses. That seems a lot like what happens when we sleep or reach a mind awake/body asleep state. If there was less potential for lasting damage to the physical body I'd like to experiment with some projection exit techniques at various levels of intoxication (by hallucinogens), but so far I'm going to stick to the natural method.

Thanks for the tips everyone... []

Nathan

hhmmmm... why is learning to have obe's important to me? The questions within me are endless, and I see the OBE as a TREMENDOUS way to seek answers! (not to mention... flying has GOT to be the COOLEST thing EVER!!! [])

Wow!!! I have to admit... i'm a little excited at the idea that i've BEEN projecting during the little lapses of consciousness, but i'm still left with a problem. When i realize that i've been drifting mentally, and i feel the vibrations, i seem to be in my body (or back in the body). Do i still have to be IN the dream in order to use the "getting up or rolling over" method? If not, how do i focus my attention so that my astral/realtime body moves and my physical body remains still? Another thing for sweet_celestial_sounds (cool name btw[]), you mentioned the sensation of limbs floating in the air without any effort to hold them up. I've experienced this... i assumed that it was a part of my astral body dissociating and that my awareness was now centered in the astral limb as opposed to the physical one, but i also have doubts. Do you believe that the experience is as it appears? Or is it just a quirky physiological/mental byproduct of remaining motionless for a while? (anyone's thoughts are appreciated... as always)

One last thing... this forum (in just the past 3 days that i've been a member) has been TREMENDOUSLY helpful! My deepest thanks to all who contribute their time and thoughts.
~Nathan

Hi Drepmore... I can't say that i've ever seen the lights, but I just wanted to offer some encouragement. I've been trying to trigger the projection reflex without success for a little over 2 years, and each time i think that i'm SO close i learn a little more and realize that there are things that i still need to work on. (that might not sound so encouraging so far... but it gets better) I still haven't given up (and never plan to []) because i've become increasingly convinced that each one of us can have success if we keep plugging away. So good luck!

~Nathan

Nearly every time that i've reached the "floaty vibrating" trance state has come after a lapse in mental focus. Typically i'll be laying down, relaxed, and trying to focus on some falling sensations and imagery, but i get lost in a some daydream/dream and miss the onset of the vibrations. They startle me awake, but i've yet to maintain them for more than a minute or two. I'm wondering if that lapse of mental focus is necessary or if it's possible to hold a clear focused mind and still reach a decent body asleep state.

Albert... what do you think about the hemisync tapes? I recently bought Wave 1 of the Gateway Discovery series, but i haven't had much luck yet.

This might be slightly off topic... but is this "completely quiet mind" necessary to achieve a conscious exit OBE? Or is it enough to simply keep stray thoughts from causing you to forget what you're doing? One more thing... is a slight loss of mental clarity due to "laxity" (as Tom described it) necessary to cause the body to "fall asleep"?

Adrian suggested that "It would be interesting, and useful to many, if people here could describe their perception of the mind awake, body asleep trance in terms of how it is achieved and recognised." I agree... it would certainly be useful to me at least. I have assumed the mind awake/body asleep trance state to be one in which all physical senses have shut down. I generally reach a point at which my body starts to feel "expanded" and slightly fluid (i seem to have rippling vibrations passing through various parts of my body), but i don't feel like my body is "asleep" enough to allow me to trigger the projection reflex. I've heard the process of conscious exit OBE described as "narrowing one's consciousness to a single thread and slipping/sneaking your conscious mind through into the projectable double". I wonder if i have to let my mind go a little "foggy", taking on a distant dreamlike quality, in order to enter trance. Anyway... any opinions/recollections of what the mind awake/body asleep trance state feels like as well as advice about the subtler aspects of mental focus that i'll need to reach the necessary trance state will be greatly appreciated.