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I've started following the NEW instructions from the start and have just been playing with stimulating the tops and bottoms of my feet (and discovered I have more than one sole).

Anyway, the circle motion brushing.  I'm ok with tactile imaging and get good sensations from the parts of my body where I focus my attention.  But I've noticed that my eyes ever so slightly circle in time with the circle brushing motion.  In other words, my eyeballs strain slightly in circles behind my closed eyelids.

I put a lot of effort into not moving my eyes at all yesterday, as a result I lose track of my body tactile imaging - at best I get a patchy and very slow circling motion occurring.

Further experimentation has revealed that my eyeballs follow (very very slightly) all awareness actions.

As a sort of blind experiment I've got several people to try out the circling action on their own bodies.  Once they got the hang of it I asked them if they noticed anything occurring with their eyeballs - they've volunteered the same thing - very slight eyeball movement.

The reason I want to stop myself from doing this is twofold:
I don't want any more eye stain (mild)
And I want to be able to control body awareness actions without any aids, visual or otherwise.

Any comments would be appreciated.
t

Just had a lucid dream to AP.  Edited from journal.

Tuesday January 14th 2003.  2.20am

Red Stork.  Dream to Lucid and Possible jump to RTZ/AP - and back to dream

Went to bed 12.30 am.  Earlier in the evening I had napped from 8.15pm to 10.30pm.
Raised energy - good energy raising session - good vibrations and numb body.  Meditated with new meditation system.  Started an internal dialogue with guide/s in the hope that one would say something not created in my head.  Entered black space for a while.  Felt a bit creepy at times - unusual.  Braved up and explored black space more.  Got tired of it and decided to sleep.  Very restless for first half an hour of sleep.

Had a dream that I was around my father's house in xxxx.  Dad, Fiancé and me were downstairs in the living room watching TV.  I was on the sofa, Fiancé was on the armchair nearest and dad was on the second armchair.  Old set up to lounge - changed maybe 1 1/2 years ago.  They were both asleep.  I got tired and began to drop off.  Woke up (in dream) and went up stairs.  Went into bedroom (upstairs was a set up of house at xxx).  There were two single beds which I planned to push together.  Lights in bedroom not working.  Crossed bedroom - bedside lamp not working either.  Caught my arm on something - like a radio antenna.  Fumbled about and got very frustrated.  Punched bed to release anger and knocked over lamp.  Dropped to my knees and punched floor.  Dropped to my front "calm down and sort the room out - then you can get to bed."  Went to get up and saw my hand and arm.

Hand and arm was not quite sitting in reality.  The flesh was brighter and the ends of my hands kept pouring away.  Lots of white energy around them.  Realised I was OB (although I was lucid).  Felt strong vibrations.  Glided out of bedroom following both arms.   This confirmed OB (although lucid in retrospect).  Colour and picture quality was fantastic.  Raised my arms and lifted out of room, through attic, and then into a continuation of the attic.  Realised I was creating.  Pushed my intent to returning to start position.  Returned to start position.  Vibration and energy electric.  Felt great joy that I was Out of Body but kept calm and focused.  Decided that I could easily create another reality by mistake - I wanted to AP.  Launched myself at high speed up into space (this felt like the intuitive thing to do - i wanted to pick out geographical locations so that I could navigate about.  Found myself not in space but in the 3D blackness (experienced most nights).  Picked out a bright spot and placed my intent to be there.  

(At this point I believe I was now AP (possibly RTZ but doubt it)).  Next bit fading from memory already.  I believe I started this sequence on the ground in a field.  Got caught up in a wooden farm gate.  Felt myself loosing control but lifted arms, looked at arms and hands, calmed and focused (note:  I may have flown a little before this - I think I tried to land with my legs into a sort of jog - the difference between the physical and astral body with attempting this sort of action may have caused the confusion and near loss of focus).  Flew up into the sky.  Flew through clouds and over a lovely landscape (I believed at the time I was in RTZ in another country).  Enjoyed manoeuvring.  Saw a bird in the distance below me.  Flew towards it.  It was a stork like creature with a red head.  Majestic and graceful.  I flew past him (seemed male) and looked back at him as I flew by.  Saw one of its intelligent eyes looking at me.  Tried to turn but (limitations placed on my flying as I was partly using physics from physical) my arc was slow.  Stork beat faster so that I had to keep turning at high speed.  Began to gain on Stork in this turning manoeuvre but Stork shot off.  The Stork seemed to open a portal in the distance and then disappeared into it in a beam of blurred light.  Placed intent to follow.  (In retrospect a non specific command considering nature of Stork's departure.)

Returned to Sofa and woke up (into dream)  In dream I don't think I had a memory of what just happened... I think.  Dad said, "you're turning into me!"

Woke up for real.  Energy and vibrations still buzzing.

Thought I'd share this one with you all.  It''s one of my OBEs that is a defining moment for me - it opened my mind to the possibilities of the astral - before hand I'd only considered what's named as the Real Time Zone.

I was in my flat sleeping on the sofa in the lounge with the light off late one night.  I think I probably had been meditating prior to falling asleep - I was most nights.
I became aware in a corridor.  It was lit dimly and the place was ornate - what you'd expect to find in a really old university.  There were other doors, dark recesses and the place had the feel of OLD. Anyway, as I became aware I found myself trying to open a door but it was locked.  Suddenly I heard footsteps so I darted around a corner and someone (or something) came into the corridor from the locked door.  I was hiding and heard him pass by.  As soon as it felt safe I got up and made my way to the door again - it was still closing as if it had a slow spring.  I sneaked in and knew I shouldn't be where I was.  It was an old library full of old things including lots of books.  I was completely aware and thoroughly enjoying the freedom and bizarreness of it all.  In the centre on the hall there was a stand.  I was drawn to this.  I found an old and biggish book and began to leaf through it.  I could read what was written in this book - the language that I was reading was strange (I was reading it out).  Then there was a bit of a blur and I came to the end of the book - i think the blur was me reading and digesting the book in an uncertain period of time.  I then spiralled up and away, leaving this place far away.

Plop - and then I woke up.  I was a little paralysed but this began to wear off quick.  I was just about to get up and turn the lights on (the only light was a warm glow through the curtains from the street lamps outside) when I felt something enter the room.  I can't put into words the complete fear I felt - I had the impression that a large, dark and cloaked figure was crouched behind me on the other side of the room (I was laying on my side facing the back of the sofa).  I was so terrified I dare not move, blink and hardly breath.  The thing/person then began to do something strange - it began to leaf through the pages of a book and I think it repeated everything I'd said in the astral, only backwards.  Similar to what happened in the astral it started at a normal speed, blitzed through the rest and slowed down for the last few words.  At the time it was even stranger because half of me was saying "you've got a homicidal burglar in the room."

Silence.  I began to ease up as it seemed to have left.  I was just getting up onto my elbow when I was struck with terror again.  The bloody thing shuffled close to me and I felt it's face next to the back of my head. It then whispered harshly, as a threat "You F**ker."

I nearly died on the spot, i swear.  The unnatural, intense fear disappeared (leaving only the normal brown-pants human fear) and I got up and turned the lights on.

After the event I didn't sleep with the light on for weeks.  I couldn't believe I was followed back to the physical.  Luckily some friends (heavy into pagan magic) told me to use protections around the property and around me.  I also went to the trouble of sprinkling salt and water everywhere and telling nasties to bug-off.

I my utter surprise my now fiancé gave me a book - i think it was called 'soul travel' and this is what made the whole experience a defining moment.  For the first time I saw my experiences explained in a book - other people were up to the same sorts of things.

I hoped you enjoyed this because I didn't  However, there's not a lot that scares me anymore because of it.

Hello, I'm new here.  I've only read a few of the posts here over the last month or so but have
found that a lot of what's said rings bells.  I've had OBEs for a few years now but have
only been able to talk to a very few people about them.  I see this therefore as an opportunity
to get some responses to what's happened (and happening) from people that appreciate
where I'm coming from.... i'm waffling.

I've had some fantastic projections in the past across several planes.  I've had terrible ones
as well where things have followed me back to the real world.  And I've had things happen
to me whilst not meditating etc when I've least expected them to occur.  It's that latter that i
want to ask about on this first post.

The first time it happened was probably 3 to 4 years ago:  I was going down a lift (elevator)
in an office building.  I was alone and before I got to my floor I closed my eyes and picked out
three shapes in the blackness (as my eyes where shut).  They closely resembled human
forms:  one sitting on the far left, one standing to my right and one sitting high up and close to the last one.  When the lift door 3 people where in the lobby in the relative positions of the shapes I'd seen some moments ago.  I was startled at the time - even more so because the person on the far left was in such an odd place - normally a person wouldn't be in that position.

At the time I hadn't really heard of astral projection or OBEs.  Since I've started looking
into the spiritual these experiences occur more frequently and with 100% accuracy.  I can
even now force this to happen.  I sought of quest around and pick out people - although my
will to do it seems to drain if I over do it.  My perception of how far away people are is
somewhat limited as well for some reason.

The reason I'm fascinated by this is because a couple of days ago I was driving along and
and sensed a white form behind a big van.  I braked, and as I past I saw a person stepping
out from behind the Van.  I wouldn't have hit him anyway because he didn't just jump out into
the road - and he didn't step out far enough.  But its got me thinking about similar previous
experiences.


Has anyone ever experienced this or have any sort of explanation about how it occurs?
I'll be really interested to hear any sort of comment.  And please forgive the language I'm using
as I'm not to sure which terms to use to explain some things above.

Thanks.

It can be very difficult dealing with objects and obstacles found in altered states.  It's more a letting go of your normal way of dealing with such things.  Don't get hung up with theories of different vibrational levels, astral mind tricks and and whatever this and that.  JUST get in there and with Determined will, pass through what you will.

There are no constraints - just get stuck in.  If it didn't work, then get more determined next time.

Good luck... but you don't need it.
t

Yes, excellent advice Centa Five

Having a pre-arranged purpose is a very positive thing and I think would help lots in this instance.

T

Yes, you made sense for me.

It's true that your standard meditaion techniques are quite boring and therefore of little value if you're not fully engaged with them.  Meditative methods I think are quite necessary to reach a state where you can seperate/phase and have an OBE.  The trick then (if it's OBEs you're after) would be to find a meditation technique that is fun and engaging.  You could for example have a roleplay sequence of events set in your imagination - like walking to a river and floating in the water - as part of a whole series of things.  These can become boring but you may find interesting results, especially if you imagine really experiencing these mindscapes and fully engage witth them.

If it's a higher understanding of the self and the achievement of better connectivity you're after then there's plenty of cool, spiritual things you can do instead of OBEs.

Enjoy the journey
t

ps Don't disregard the cat

I would suggest you look at some of the articles here Lumena
http://www.astralpulse.com/articles/articles.htm

And start quizzing everyone on this site

As for a starting point,
my one suggestion would be to start doing some meditation and explore your thoughts, feelings and senses whilst moving between different levels of meditation.
And enjoy it.

Regards
t

It's difficult for me to fully understand this state you describe Suigin.  As you're obviously following tecniques and seem to have a good grasp of what's going on around you, my first suggestion (similar to findtruth's) would be to stop what ever you're doing when you get like this.  Sort of a moment of stillness.  And use this to pull yourself together - maybe with some sort of self-command like you used when you said, 'You're a genius. You can do anything. Project already.'

Good Luck - if i think of anything else I'll post.
t

Suigin

Do you have a procedure that you follow to get to this 'almost' out of body state.  If you don't then it may be worth building one that you follow so that you maintain a greater level of attention or focus as you move to OOB.

If you do have one then it may well be worth tinkering with it to achieve the same.

Examples of these procedures and techniques are available in the articles section of this site if you need more info.

Regards
T

Yep

This used to annoy me.  I discovered I was simply allowing my attention to drift and was infact "almost" asleep.  I've got round that now just my keeping my attention levels up with whatever I'm doing.  This could be by following a mental set piese through without wondering off OR it may be that I just maintain an objective dialogue with myself - sort of mentioning to myself a lot of what I'm experiencing.

Greetings Yellowsub'

My opinion is that people should really consider the potential dangers with taking 'mind altering' substances to induce OB states.  Going out of body relies heavily on our intuitive connection with the world and taking such substances could potentially strip away your natural defences and your natural ability to go OOB in the short term.  In the long term I couldn't guess.

Having said that I'm not anti-drug in any sense.  I'm just of the opinion that drugs can be harmful to the experiences we should benifit from in regards to OOB experiences.

And as for latent talent - I think most people have an extrordinary talent for a whole host of 'mystical' skills including going OOB.  But we're all just at different phases of achievment.  DMT, whilst mega in some senses, is less important than moving myself onto the next phase.

Hope that help Yellowsub'
Regards
T

I believe Robert Bruce's New Energey Ways (and other works) was developed in part with blind people in mind.  RB writes about the use of tactile imaging - the article is on this site.  Many of his techniques seem to use this sort of method over 'image' visualisation.


Hope that helps
t

I don't know an awful lot about the Park as yet,
but if you do searches here under 'focus 27', 'f27' and 'reception area' you should find useful info - they're all the same place (sort of).

Regards
T

Greetings Michael_E
What struck me most about this account was the setting and what the lady said about this being a place for the deceased to find peace.

Have you read Robert Monroe's Ultimate Journey - this sounds very much like the park that he mentions?  A place that those that have past away move to after ridding themselves of any Life hang-ups.

Kind Regards
T

Greetings

http://www.hemi-sync.biz/price.htm
for gateway discovery price list in the UK
£65 per set
£430 for the lot.

A friend got the first lot through them.

Regards
t

Greetings Westcor

Good questions.
I've trained myself to look at my hands if I turn lucid in a dream - as a sort of confirmation that I'm lucid.  I've used this lucid state of awareness to jump into the 'astral' on two occasions.

My goal when lucid is to pop into a star scape (3d blackness) area of the astral that I'm very familiar with.  The first time I tried this I tried to literally jump from the lucid dream and found myselff messing about a repeating loft (attic) for some time.  I then went back to my start point, loooked at my hands again to keep up my concentration and then fully bent my mind to being in this starscape place.  Which worked and I went on to have some interesting adventures.

The second time was a few nights ago. This time the transition from lucid to astral was swift and easy.  I think it was too swift actually, because when I pulled myself together in the astral and set off to a place I had in mind I jolted myself awake.

I find Lucid dreams much more vivid in colour and I used to have a far easier time 'moving' about in them than at other levels of consciousness.

I would say that if you have lucid dreams often then prepare by having a particular place and purpose in mind to go to in the the astral.

t

And you can probably listen, live over the net at:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/

Remeber - the times are GMT.

T

Hello Linda
"I then discovered that it was much easier for me to just wait till I was in that inbetween sleep/wake zone, when you start seeing pictures,cartoons etc and then fall out rather than having to do all that energy work."

That's what I do most of the time (when attempting the classic get out of body method) and I'm quite lazy with the energy raising.  And I have also found myself in a bit of a slow/static place.  And most of this has been down to tiredness and time.

Over the last week I've started to make sure I do a bit of energy raising (for my health more than anything) and I've started to make sure I keep a diary of anything interesting - oh! and  I've started to play about in the between place again nightly before falling into a deep slumber... but I'm still in the same place as you.

So if anyone else could make any suggestions on this you'll be helping Linda and me.

ttfn
t

Good topic
Throughout my astral career [] I've had thoughts and ideas as to what's real and what is not.  I've asked, "Am I just a blimen nutter?"

In time I've come to a nice, safe and comfy position (for me).  

Direct experience is primarily all that matters.  I've projected into the astral and rtz and had lucid dreams and lots of experiences that none of the former labels fully encompass.  I suspect that (and many others do) that the astral is more valuable to me than the rtz - especially in regards to my own spiritual development and interests.
My direct experiences confirm that this is the case for me.

However, I will not maintain that this or that is fact.

Mohamed, I think the things you've said are extremely valid and interesting and it's impossible to argue to the counter of your opinions - but your opinions differ from mine and are similar to some of the other opinions offered in this thread.  However, I would say Mohamed, that to say that this or that is a fact is not correct and you risk falling into dogma and the like.

But reading what some of you have responded with I would say to you the same thing: you're also potentially falling into dogma and the like by suggesting that Mohamed is wrong []- especially in relation to your own direct experiences and how you've later interpreted them.

I don't think there's ever anything wrong with people offering their opinion, whatever the topic may be.  And I think that's why this thread caught my eye - mohamed has offered opinions that differ to my own and to many others... but at the end of the day it's my own direct experiences that are 'real' and that count.

______

I've just read through what I wrote and it worries me that I might sound a bit like a smug git - sorry, this was not the intention.  I've got to post it because it took me a while to write []

Kind regards
t

Hi
Yep, I must say, that's pretty weird having pain.  

The only thing I can offer is this:
I've suffered from confusion whilst oob in the past.  For example, I would become confused about how to negotiate a wall or a fence and either get stuck or trip over.  Whilst in the astral/rtz etc etc obstacles should not pose a real problem and the same physical laws do not hold - so if you want to go through a wall then just will yourself to pass through it.

I may be that you bacame sort of muddled and confused with the wall and this translated to pain.  Or you may have got a cramp in your jaw in the physical here and now!

I love the way you went though all the short dreams with lots of vibrational experiences in between - similar things have happened to me in the past and they've been quite enjoyable - sort of over the edge yet still not far enough!  Frustrating yet positive at the same time.

Kind regards
t

Hello OBE Girl
I think cainam_nazier is quite right - you can easily stand up to this wether it's a figment of your imaginination or some type of entity.  If you worry about it and fear whatever it may be, it will just grow in strength - be it imaginary or real.  If it was really something to be worried about you would have experienced worse by now I'm sure.

I've had similar things happen to me and I've been very guilty of letting them get the better of me.  But those days are well over...  But if I do get a creepy thing happen these days I just try not to think about it.  Robert Bruce, in his book Psychic Defence notes that there are some measures one can take to act against naughty entities - and I carry out these mostly because they naturally just make me feel better.  First I just turn on most of the lights in the house during the nights and make sure there's plenty of light coming into the house during the day.  I also leave the radio on (night and day) playing quiet classical music.  And I just make sure everywhere is clean and tidy.  If it's really bad try and sleep somewhere else in the house.

The main thing I would say is not to get obsessed with it (have been guilty of this as well lol ) and just stand up to it.  If you want a night of no OBEs you could make sure you was tired before going to bed and eat later in the evening.  My advice would be not to do this just yet however.  

I've had some fantastic OBEs and have learned a lot about myself from them and from the dreams that I've had.  Smile and kick this thing between the legs.

And remember that here at the Astral Pulse there's a vast amount of knowledge and kindness that you can tap into at anytime.

Kind regards
t

Hello.
For a long time I would try and "push' things to far - I would mentally attempt to force myself ob when the vibrations started.  This would either cause a moment of change (momentarily ob maybe) or I would blast off into some short-lived, out-of-control projection - either way they were always short-lived and a little annoying.  Like you say, this could happen several times in one night.

I got over this by sitting back and enjoying the vibrations and gently, gently easing myself away.  I would do this by either moving my astral body out of the physical or by playing with opening the 3rd eye - this would lead to imagery that would sometime act as "gateways" to a projection.

So enjoy what great advances you've already made, would be my advice.

Good luck.
t

Hello
no leaf clover...  you should check out:


Holy Blood, Holy Grail by Michael Baigent, Henry Lincoln and Richard Leigh.

www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0440136482/103-2898023-0022232?vi=glance

regards.

It's great just getting 'out' and having a casual look about.  How long did you wonder about for may I ask?

As for wether it was a lucid dream or a projection into the RTZ/Astral you will be the best judge of that I'm sure... probably at a later date.  I would suggest a lucid dream for this one from reading your post.

Kind regards
t