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No kidding, that was a great read ! Must have been written a long time ago, probably over 100yrs, no mention of quantum physics - but it wasn't needed anyway, his concept of reality seems perfect to me, I just can't fault it.

A fascinating experience, you were fortunate to have such lucidity for so long ! Your experiments were interesting too, I am amazed you didn't fall prey to wanting to fly about or other mad stuff. I once asked out loud in an LD to be taken to Atlantis and after a 'whoosh' I was over an amazing cityscape, alien and familiar at the same time, a bit like your hybrid Mayan thing. It's stunning isn't it what your mind can create, the detail in mine was incredible, but oddly no people ?

One other thing in your post struck me - you say your brain hurt because it was working hard making the LD. So you must think then that the brain and the mind are the same thing (materialist / reductionist), but then you talk about being out of body (idealist), ie. so the brain does not 'contain' the mind. Two opposing views there Anyway, I won't take away from your cool experiment, please let us know more if you get into this state again !

I see where you're coming from, but my point is that infinity in the 'traditional' sense of time and distance without end, is refuted by Zeno's Paradox. I think your use of the word in your post is more to describe your own indefinable subjective experience - in that sense it is not up for discussion of any kind as it's a semantic vacuum which defies any meaningful analysis.

I would also not separate time and 'reality' (define ?) as you have - you say time is illusory, but surely so is 'reality' ? I don't think anything the mind can imagine or experience is anything other than it's own (or possibly shared) fabrication. That I think is especially true of experiences in altered states such as LD and AP. All that truly is, is pure, undifferentiated consciousness, anything else is your own. However, that doesn't mean we can't enjoy exploring our incredible illusions, just don't take them too seriously

Thanks for that well-written description, it's just how I think it is too. It's just so logical this way - everyone gets what they create/believe and it's all about growth and evolution. No rules, no judgement, no dogma and no objective reality, just eternal spirit and unlimited potential.

Zeno's paradox shows us that the common interpretation of infinity cannot exist. The paradox draws attention not to the infinitely large, which is what most people think of when discussing the subject, but instead it examines the infinitely small, or more accurately, infinite sub-dividing of distances. Zeno said if infinity was a real concept, then any movement, whether across a space or a time interval, is impossible because you would have to cross an infinite amount of sub-divisions to get to your destination. You obviously cannot fit an infinite quantity into a finite distance.

Look at this way - to cross your room you have to get to the half-way point first. But to get to the half-way point, you first have to cross the 1/4 point, but to get to the 1/4 point, you have to cross the 1/8 point. You get the picture. You can keep sub-dividing the distance into infinity - so you never move ! That goes for time too, you cannot cross an infinite amount of time sub-divisions in a finite length of time.

But we DO move through space and time, don't we ? So does that mean Zeno's paradox is wrong and there IS infinity ? Well my take on this (I'm no Philosophy Major btw) is that the paradox shows something much, much more interesting. Namely that time and space are complete illusion (OK, Buddhists know this already !) - you never move anywhere, not through time nor through space, the 3 dimensions of space and one of time (maybe 3 ?) have no existence other than in the mind's field of perception (whatever that is). Movement as such implies distance, distance implies infinity. Zeno shows that infinity cannot exist, at least in terms of distance or duration, therefore all movement is illusory.

Yes, this viewpoint is not new by any means - it's called Idealism, or Idealistic Monism if you prefer - but for me anyway, Zeno's paradox proves in logical terms that everything we perceive has no objective reality, ie. there is no 'out there', only 'in here'. There is no dualism, only a continuum - the 'one', 'god', 'singularity' ? Everything, I mean everything is created by thought, by belief. Quantum Physics bears this out I believe ? Even the so-called Higher Planes, I think these are also belief-created. But I do not think this in any way diminishes the incredible multiverse ! I have to assume though it is created at a different level of awareness to that which we/it normally use, ie. ego consciousness.

Well that's my take on infinity. I really like Zeno's Paradox (he was an Ancient Greek btw) because is gives a solid, logical proof in my eyes that 'reality' is a non-physical, thought-continuum with unlimited (infinite ?) potential ! The term OBE is in this sense inaccurate because there is no 'body' to be 'out of', it's all a mental realm, even the 'physical'. Basically, if you can believe it, you can have it - everyone's a winner ! No one religion can claim to be 'right', nor any other worldview for that matter - because they all are ! The ultimate Pluralism. I think it's a great starting point for a theory of 'reality'. It'll be interesting to see what others here think of these concepts.

One last thought - isn't it impossible to BE any where in an infinite space ? Surely there is no point of reference so a definitive location is impossible ? I mean it's a logic thing, not a technical limitation - even a god cannot 'place' a 'something' into an infinite space because there is no identifiable location, no reference point. You can't just say 'put it anywhere', because there are no 'wheres', only an everywhere. Aaargh - enough on that.

If you can do this, next step is to try the "get up early and go to sleep again" method (Its time, someone should name it). Vibes will come.

How about the 'DSI method' ? Stands for 'Deliberate Sleep Interruption.

I only had them a few times but it usually feels like my body has turned to liquid and there are rapid ripples or waves running outwards from my solar plexus area. It's really very pleasant. It's nothing at all like normal physical sensations such as tingling, not for me anyway, I'm sure everyone has them slightly differently.

There seems to be general agreement on this subject that the dimensions or realms just beyond the physical are highly thought-responsive. This basically means that strong feelings or beliefs can manifest in front of you, seemingly very real. Fear of course will loom large as you are entering a state of being very unfamiliar to your normal day-to-day life, it's a natural reaction and hard to control. But you can and must control your fear if you want to progress. Any voices or ghoulish imagery are almost certainly a type of subconscious projection of your own making, same as the feeling of dread or of not being able to move or breathe, these are all normal. Learning to relax through this stage is key to making the most of this potentially beautiful and life-enhancing experience. Astral projection is a hard-won skill, it's not easy and it is also not for the faint-hearted, as you are finding out Just try to convince yourself that you can come to no harm and that everything is quite normal and going according to plan. Maybe learn to fix some counter-imagery in your mind such as white light around you or a friendly angel, anything to distract you from fear will do. Your are actually very fortunate to get to this stage, many people try hard for a long time to get where you're at now. Stick with it and soon you'll bypass the fear stage and go straight to the more interesting areas ...

I had my first AP experience recently and the first thing I noticed on 'return' to the body was a persistent ringing in my ears, like after hearing a very loud noise. It went on for several minutes, my body was tingling too. Must be the energy/etheric body reacting in some way, possibly it gets a huge charge-up from the astral body on its return, or maybe the etheric body has to be charged up in order for projection to occur in the first place. Actually, that seems more likely, given all the energy-raising techniques which are recommended to initiate AP. It was cool to have a 'real' physiological after-effect though, it made me believe all the more that I had experienced something which was definitely no dream or illusion, in the normal sense of those words.

Thanks - I'd just spent the time buying and reading a great many books on the topic, and other related things. I gradually got better at lucid dreaming, but only ever seemed to get the vibrations 'by accident'. I was never sure what I had done, if anything to get that state. Well I suppose all the info and thinking about AP finally took root in my subconscious, so I was able to recognise the vibrations for what they were, instead of having my usual 'it's an earthquake !' dream Well I've still only had one AP experience, so it's early days yet. Strange thing is that I can now meditate much easier since my experience, I can get into a very tranquil state with little or no ego interference quite easily now, it was always near impossible to do that before, too much mind-chatter. I read somewhere that higher forces can make 'adjustments' to you as you progress, some kind of spiritual engineering maybe ? I wonder if I got a tune-up during my little AP ? I'm more than ready for another trip inwards anyway !

Just wanted to say congrats!!! 

What have you done over the last three years in trying to learn AP? Do you think anything lately may have contributed to your success?

I had my first AP a couple of nights back and it was achieved by forcing the vibrations to happen inside a lucid dream. I suggest that you ignore your lucid dream events and surroundings and try shaking or vibrating yourself in way you can think of, maybe you could use the LD to create an engine or something sitting on your chest, make it really noisy and have it shake you. I just lay down in my LD and shook myself, bit like a fake 'fit' (probably looked crazy to anyone watching, lol). When I stopped after a few seconds, the shakes continued by themselves, so I relaxed and a few seconds later I just 'popped' out into the Astral, 100% aware, it was like people say, a totally new order of experience to an LD. There will be no doubt once you have achieved it.

K its all very interesting knowing what LD's are and all but what I REALLY need is someone to give me the most effective method to go out of one and AP.

I recently been having a spate of lucid dreams so I figured I want to use this to my advantage and AP from them as I have heard this is possible.

So PLEASE someone give me the best method before my LD's end. TY.

Try focussing as much as you can on the noise and sensations, will them to be as loud/intense as possible and then you might start to feel wild vibrations and/or buzzing in your body. That's the usual precursor to projection, you might just pop out once you are comfortable with the sensations.

Any tips on what to do and expect at that point? As far as I know, that's the farthest I've ever made it while conscious.

After about 3 years of trying it finally happened, my first ever projection. No doubt about it, this was the real deal this time. I'd read dozens of books on the subject as well as other related topics but has only managed to increase the frequency and length of my lucid dreams, although still only to about a minute tops. Well last night an LD led to an AP !

I'd had the vibes on a few occasions in the past, mostly in the chest area, but nothing had ever come of it. Well I was having a bit of a bad dream, being chased or something, when I became lucid. So I thought I'd try and initiate the vibrations from this state. I lay down in the dream environment and forced myself to shake as best I could. After a few seconds, the shakes carried on on their own so I lay back and relaxed. The vibes were strongest on my solar plexus area, first time I have had them there. The suddenly there was a 'pop' ! Next thing I knew I was completely awake, I mean really totally awake, not like an LD where you are kind of phasing in and out, this was total 100% conscious. However I was not in bed any more, I was floating, on my back, in a black silent void and unable to move anything except my eyes. I could make out my body, just about, I seemed to be wearing what I had been during the day. I was not scared, but it was a bit unnerving to find oneself awake in a black void !

No sooner as I had assessed my situation, I shot upwards with a jolt, like a very fast elevator. Still silent and with what felt like a slight breeze flowing over me, I continued upwards for about 5 seconds and then suddenly came to a halt again (though no action of my own, I was still lying on my back, immobile). My vision sort of readjusted and all I could see were hundreds of points of white light against the blackness. I'm sure they were not stars, they kind of looked like LEDs, all equi-sized, equi-bright and pretty much uniformly distributed all around. The space also seemed to have texture, almost iridescent, it was quite beautiful. I was really overjoyed at this point and grinning ear to ear. I tried to speak but my vocal chords didn't work too well, I only managed a garbled 'hello everybody', then I couldn't speak at all. Then there was a weird shift and I was back in my body, in bed and completely awake. Strange thing was that my ears were ringing like crazy and my body tingled for about 5 mins afterwards, definitely some kind of physiological effect from the AP experience. I only ever had that once before when I once 'half-AP'd', got to sit up in the Astral and then flopped back down again. Seems like some sort of astral hangover.

Well I thought I would share that one with you. I seem to recall reading either here or maybe in a book about AP that the 'void' and even the white 'star' lights have been experienced by others. I wonder if it's some kind of objective staging post, like an entrance or border area between planes. Awesome stuff anyway, now I know first hand it's real, I had some doubts about the stuff I was reading, but there's nothing like going there yourself to make you a believer. Looking forward now to making further progress next time. Seem the vibrations are key, well they are for me, I must try ways of getting them going whenever possible.

Sorry for the long post, thanks for reading.