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Hey, no worries guys.  

But I actually admire Robert Bruce and his intellect, as well as his contributions in the metaphysical field. I can't speak so much on the critique concerning AP as that is not my area of expertise, but I find him a good , helpful, and reliable asset in other general areas in Metaphysics.

I don't see this 'fear-mongering' in the same light really. It varies as different people will have different reactions based on their limited knowledge and experience, but I find It's a persons own responsibility alone to not overreact impulsively negative when being exposed or considering new information.

When reading through some of his material my first thoughts were not "Oh no, all this stuff can possibly be real now I'm scared." I'm thinking "Well this Man has been through some heavy stuff that's hard to understand for most people in this area of the world, he can understand others who've been through some of this, and he's actually trying to do something to contribute to  better understanding the nature of this mysterious phenomena."

Some of us didn't need to invest in a particular belief in order for it to lead to or 'project' the 'subjective' perception of an experience be the experience "good" or "bad". Rather an groundbreaking experience itself can be enough for the person to justify why they feel, think, and stand strongly in their views  the way they do. It's something most of us( not all) can relate to.

What I like about Robert Bruce is that he makes an attempt to understand the mysterious nature of spiritual phenomena, be it may on controversial topics. i.e 'Psychic attacks. There's been countless anecdotes on the possibilities and realities of these things for several thousands of years all over the globe in recorded history. I think it's fair to consider more serious , but neutral, and open minded thought on the possibilities(emphasis on possibilities) without putting a person down for it, or think they are trying to spread fear for sharing their experience however 'unpopular' the experience or view might be, simply because some are nothing more than just 'uncomfortable' by the thought of it.

I know Robert Bruce really has the best in mind to assist people, even though many here may disagree with his methods.

I like that He makes effort to translate within the context of a modern day western padagrim of thought. In the end it comes down to using terminology a persons mind might be receptive to when analyzing and speculating on this phenomena.

I personally benefitted and got nothing but good from what he shares and puts work into, and yes I'm already well acquainted with other alternatives of authors working in the same fields.

To each his own, respectfully.

Thank you for the welcome back Stillwater, I'm happy to see you still active here. I look forward to engage in more discussions with you and possibly also catch up as well in the near future, if you wouldn't mind. You've always been one of my favorite posters. ^_^ Hope all is well with you friend.

Polaris interviews renowned mystic & author Robert Bruce On the subjects of mysticism, life experience, psychic combat, magick, law of attraction, astral projection and out of body experience etc, he answers his views for us from his many years of experience and work in the field. Some of you here might be already familiar with him. He's a really great and down to earth fellow, and I admire his work and many contributions to the metaphysical field.

http://www.polarisrising.net/index.php?/topic/1019-interview-with-famous-mystic-astral-projection-expert-robert-bruce/

Of course, if you think for yourself you can be anything you want.

If that's the case then Idealist Metaphysics doesnt quite quench my thirst no matter how much I'm pushed to drink of it lol.  

Well as they say, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.". Goes for anything in life really.

If there is true meaning in this universe, then it has yet to be found... Human concepts of ultimate truth are flawed, and created to give meaning to a meaningless existence.

Right now this is the only thing I can accept until we inevitably shift into a higher level of understanding where we can get down to business with higher faculties of awareness our previous perceptual limitations were unable to wrap ourselves around.

And all of these 3 have the very same thing in common. They are all created by "Focused Intent"! Which is what Magick is in General. Creating a thoughtform to achieve a certain goal through will and focused intent.

Precisely, but some people get a better grasp of understanding through categories rather then leaving it ambiguous. Such as people who have a hard time of accepting that through some forms of Black Magick can be used for what can be perceived to be positive or good temporarily or for the greater good, rather then selfishness alone.

White, Black, Whatever All the answers can simply be displayed in non-melodramatic form.

There are predominately three types of magic: aggressive, passive and neutral. There are other subcategories, but the majority of magic wielded can be divided into these three groups or classes.

Aggressive magic is the art of fighting and war. This is almost always present, like a fire running through the veins. 

Passive magic is the gentler magic of healing, or making plants grow. This magic sleeps until it is called upon by the wielder.

Neutral magic is neither passive nor aggressive, but rather both and neither at the same time. It is most often used for illusions to hide things, conceal footprints or make someone see what you want them to see. Neutral magic is also 'passive' i.e. it won't work unless called upon, unlike aggressive magic which happens automatically.

All types of powers can be used two ways: to harm and to help.

A fighting magic can be used to brutally kill, or it can be used to protect people, just like a healing magic can be used to heal someone, or to kill someone.

Neutral magic is the friend of many criminals, but also hunters. It is the art of illusions and can therefore hide the body, or the criminal, or conceal the sound of footsteps as well as scent to sneak up on your prey.

These energies are neither good or evil, it's all in the responsibility of the caster.

["It's all in my head so I can choose what is real and what is not real to me even though it's all the same thing."]

I would have to agree and disagree depending on the context. It also depends how one words it. I think too many people take for granted that we are restricted by the perceptual limitations of our own minds. So we try a way to overcome this by resorting to Mono Idealism, "It's all in my head so I can choose what is real and what is not real to me even though it's all the same thing."

For some people "Everything" is real, for others they are picky in in accepting anything in correlation to the model for their reality and personal life philosophy's they've chosen. Don't get me wrong I understand exactly where your coming from, but I think clairvoyance being an actual skill as well as receiving profound visions, is separate from just daydreaming or "imagining" things.

There is intelligence within us, as well intelligence outside of us. It's all energy yes, but our brains are also like transmitters, we can project and create, or receive and filter information from the other worlds, inspiration, channeling etc.(Sometimes some cant even tell the difference.) Whatever energy my mind interfaces with intelligent or not "real" or not, I know that in the real state of affairs - being for the most part beyond my perceptions -the actual "form"  is probably quite different than my mental image of it. But That's okay.

I personally don't think "everything" is real in the way we think it's real, but I do recognize certain concepts more or less share the same or similar archetypes.

I think trying to find out what they are EXACTLY is unimportant while we maintain this form. Every culture/spirituality has it's own pantheon of spiritual entity's, the "good" guys, and the "bad" guys. Let alone Making an "abstract" sounding statement about the unseen can be interpreted 10 different ways.

I will start by saying, I don't think there as an exact spiritual hierarchy, aside from human perceptual limitation or convenience..Not sure which is a better suited word. But I strongly do suspect aside from the 'astral' there is a realm of existence almost similar and close to ours, that from which our encounters with such entity s are mediated by the mind/brain/consciousness. So with this said, I strongly suspect a lot of the entity's whether they are perceived to be good, benevolent, evil, neutral etc are pretty much the same exact beings labeled different things.

In the eastern world, during ancient times, people believed Any Class of Spirit that is lower then an 'angel' is a "jinn'. Djinn or Jinn which comes from an ancient term meaning 'hidden' or 'unseen' have existed in lore for thousands of years. Most early Semitic cultures have tales of them. There are carvings of Assyrian origin dating back to almost 1,000 BC from Nimrud. So predating Islam by almost 1500 years.

Due to the translation of "Jinn" It is somewhat of a bucket term for spiritual beings. For instance some people believe everything unseen is a "Jinn" regardless of classifications such as spirit, astral, etheric, nature, thought form, etc. Some believe them to be demons. Some people to be the "Middle ground" between the divine and the diabolical. (Duality) Some believe them to be a specific type of race/entity.

Jinns, for those that accept this model, vary anywhere between a nature spirit, elemental, or infernal. As they are a class of entitys that are still lower and most similar to us then the "Higher" ones. In a lot of Eastern cultures they accept the existence of jinns and they know them as shapeshifters. They have free will and their own beliefs spiritual or not.

If you go anywhere in Indonesia or the phillipines they use "Jinn" as a word for Nature spirits or Malicious spirits in general. Whether they are faeries, gnomes, dwarves, devils, it doesn't matter they are all "Jinn". Not one jinn is alike, as they are individual as you and I.

So myself working with spiritual entities for quite some time due to a life changing experience I had a few years ago, I'm hardly surprised when  a sensitive person or clairvoyant/medium can see or feel those spirits around me, they spot them out and describe them accurately. Some of them get scared or fear it's a malicious spirit or demon because it looks "scary" or inhuman, due to their own ignorance.

Different clairvoyants from different spiritual backgrounds will label them different things accordingly to their belief system, heck, there's even a popular new agey belief that spiritual beings are nothing more then "thought forms", but I know for a fact it wont change the Spiritual Energy they perceive for what it objectively is beyond our limited perception of it.

So What are they Exactly? Who Knows. I sure don't. Some like humans, some hate humans, some are indifferent, they have their own beliefs, they live almost similar to us, They have their own world, they can see us, but we have trouble perceiving them. That's it.

I've mentioned this several times in the past, but I think it's possible that a lot of "aliens" are elementals that have fallen from their path, whose goal is to experience the physical world, but can't, so they use, trick, and deceive humans into believing they are all kinds of things they aren't, like gods/creators, or technologically advanced civilizations. They want our attention and for us to give up our will, whatever it takes, so they can come off as good, bad, scary, evil, or neutral. The best thing to do is not give them any attention at all - they feed off it, and if they don't get it, they'll eventually fall back into their necessary path. These are also the beings behind a lot of channeling, ouija boards, & automatic writing. Again, they'll tell you anything, as long as they get your attention (and eventually, your will).

I agree fully, but it also depends one one's personal model for the spirit world/non-physical/wider reality I suppose. Even then if one believes the "astral" is the ONLY  "Higher" realm to exist, or if theirs other realms similiar to ours that are connected to our physical universe or overlap on each other within the same space-time frequency. Planes.

I believe this too, but I think it more so has to do with the non-physical entitys that live among us. They inhabit nature, living in trees, forests,rivers, clouds, winds, open fields, junk yards etc. They have their own world, society, way of life, and beliefs. Just..They can see us, but we cant fully perceive them.

At once I had a "Spirit Guide" attached to me, and fortunate for myself I knew some pretty strong clairvoyants, even one's I would bump into the street would see her. (Without prior knowledge of having anything around me to begin with.)

Some Clairvoyants were religious, Some were spiritual, some lived by their own beliefs. What was interesting to me was, they ALL perceived the Same exact entity(In looks, description, behaviours, mannerisms etc) very accurately, but they all labeled it different things. Anywhere from Nature Spirit, Elemental, Demon, Lost Soul, Jinn, Succubus, Creature etc. Her nature and characteristics was a cross between Elemental and Infernal, which is why some people perceived her to be "demonic" and some "Elemental"(Nature). So this got me thinking, to what extent are the spirits/entitys described in most cultures/spirituality's, are in fact the same exact beings called by different things?

I think when a spiritual energy is encountered, whether clairvoyance or via Astral Projection, A persons beliefs/expectations can subconsciously filter how the entity can be perceived, but in reality wont change the energy for what it objectivly is. But I have come to this conclusions through my own validations, and verification's from my metaphysical experiences.

Mustardseed I would be interested in the thread, And I would contribute what I can from my experiences with otherwordly entities.

Yes they can witness an outcome with the greatest potential, but nothing is surely set in stone.

Thought it would be fun to get individual definitions/views.

What Is Karma?

What Fuels it?

How does Karma Balance?

lolz.

[Revelation 22:13 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."]

Where did god come from then?

The question of how the universe began, was it creation or an accident, how did everything we see before us turn out to be? Why does it exist?

If the universe came to be, because of a God then how did God come to be? Some people believe there was never a beginning and that "stuff" has always existed.

The universe could have always existed, or God could have always existed. Both of these questions I see are pretty related to one another from the standpoint of believers who consider "God" and the Universe to be identical i.e Pantheism, and this metaphorical bible verse backs it up.

Revelation 22:13 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."

So whether God really is a creator being or not, the "source" clearly is the beginning and the end of all things which can be an answer to both questions I suppose..

The practice of "Witchcraft" is not evil. The mainstream spirituality's have a problem with it because they see that kind of practice as Morally Ambiguous. It's all about intent, and then it rounds down to the individual practitioner, with a little karma involved, one can choose to bless occasionally or curse occasionally, but a whole blanket term in itself cannot be labeled "evil"..

As for "God", it can mean anything to anyone, but it has more significance on a personal level. Dude it really is irrelevant whether or not a "creator" entity really exists or not. That is not why we are here anyways.

You been to Africa alot, most religions/cults in Africa See Nzambi/Olorun as a Creator that is impersonal and uninvolved with it's creation. All of them share that similarity.Somewhat the most logical approach similar to the philosophy in Deism.

In my opinion it does not really matter. I dont think you should let something so impossible to figure out bother you. You can still go the Agnostic Deist route after all.  

[exactly]

In the Metaphysical there are two divergent views. Mysticism and Faith.

Mysticism, mans study of science and magic, the seen and unseen forces which shape the world around us.

Faith The view that man must put his trust in powers beyond mortal understanding to determine fate and establish set ethical and moral guidelines to live by.

Depending on one's preferred model for reality there's different ways to approach this. But One can absolutely be both a "Mystic"(In context which I refer to as "Metaphysical Scientist") and still carry Faith and vice versa.

The mainstream view is that God is a Single Entity, a Creator.

Some think that there is no literal 'God' but God itself is synonymous with nature and the universe itself, Pantheism.

Some believe "God" IS the collective unconsious that resides in us all. In other words, there is a piece of god within each of us. We are Gods basically that created this reality for ourselves in order to learn and experience.

Did Gods create man or did man create Gods? One perspective is God's and most spirit beings are Archetypal Forces. They are the original perfect blueprint imprinted within our psyche, in which we attempt to translate truth with ambigous energies.

On the other hand, some think we invented God's but they still exist as Thought Forms/Egregores. These Egregores maintain their existence by the collective thought energies of those that believe in them.(This is popular in Chaos Magick.)

Or maybe, there is no God, or Divine plan for that matter. What people perceive to be God like bengs or Deity's are manipulative non-physical beings that claim to be creators, and demand worship. They plant thoughts into people's heads to get organized under specific ideals, rally under their pantheon, and spread their messages.

I've studied many different religions, and the conclusion to which I came is that each one has good points as well as not-so-good points. No single belief system religious or non-religious is perfect in and of itself. I never accept the written texts (Bible, Qur'an, Talmud, etc.) of specific religions as verbatim truth... but do see many truths scattered throughout the books. I glean bits of wisdom and understanding from religious teachings, and use that to help develop my own path. I view mainstream religions as more of a guide than a "thou shalt do as we say or else" mentality.

I will never call myself a religious person, but I will strive to learn as much as I can about different systems of belief.

With this said, personally, because of the nature and sequences of my metaphysical experiences, combined with my research, I do not subscribe to the direct "Higher Self" Theory or any Mono Idealistic theory otherwise known as "Everyone's truth is true.". I understand that the spiritual world is as unstable as our perception of it, and with our perceptual limitations, humans are far from perfect(Even trying to relate with each other's experiences and beliefs). In our Psychology are rooted archetypes, with perceptual programming we use to relate to and personalize ambiguous energies. It's all the same story told in different ways.

For my view on "God"(Which can have many different personal meanings.) I find it comfortable to see "the Supreme Power" as Adi Paramabrahman (or Adi Paramabrahmana) which is a non-sentitient creative force that has long long ago transcended even its own need to exist, and by doing this "Here We Are"...and just "below" this is The ocean of Story = Endless forms, Applications, Levels, and all else ---Of Infinite Consciousness...of Gods/Goddesses in Other SPiritualities, I would say that most true to form would be Obatala, But of course when you go into outer space there is No Up Or Down, likewise with the Ocean of Story's. With part of my spirituality ...there is NO Spiritual Hierarchy ...except for human perceptual limitation or convenience - I am not sure which of these is the better word. But I find this energy as completely Neutral. The "Whole" and everything around us, known and unknown, seen and unseen, exist's because it just does. Existence has the meaning you give it, but there is no "Higher" divine plan or any man-made concept that holds direct truth in the world of spirit for that matter..(Pretty semi nihilistic, I know.   )

As far as the Subjective Afterlife theory goes, I Disagree with it. I dont find it that simple, as my spiritual tradition is one that revolves around Mediumship, Ancestor Worship, and Spirit Communication, attending spiritual misa's etc.

Spirits are much more evolved then us. They carry great foresight into situations, circumstances and potential outcomes; Being ascended, they can often see things from the standpoint we the living cannot..Already having a different capacity - exhibiting enhanced wisdom or capability in one direction, another or multiple. Spiritually they are freed from certain binds of necessity, or characteristically, and this thereby can weaken the potency of their power (a shift from physical), but will bring an empowerment to their better traits.

The dead are fully aware of their state of existence.. It hits them really fast...Being in a completely different "reality" should be pretty obvious.. They are not oblivious individals, trapped in some imagination box for all of eternity carried from there fears and beliefs they once held while alive. Whether it's sooner or later, they find out the beliefs they held while once living didnt turn out exactly how they thought it would be or play out(This can turn out for any one of us too, when the time comes.) But more or less they get over it pretty quickly and move on, as this is much easier no longer being tied by the limitations of our brains and it's programmings.

Matter of fact in the Tibetan book of the dead it goes into great detail concerning that subject. One's psychological state of mind during the dying process CAN influence the transition while one is perceiving it, but this hold's no relation to the outcome of one's belief or destination when returning to the other world/source.

My two cents.

I had thought of a jinn as more of a male Gennie .   Killa Rican's discription sounds more    like a nature sprite , or astral elemental .  

I would like to clarify on this line of thought a bit.

Djinn or Jinn which comes from an ancient term meaning 'hidden' have existed in lore for thousands of years. Most early Semitic cultures have tales of them. There are carvings of Assyrian origin dating back to almost 1,000 BC from Nimrud. So predating Islam by almost 1500 years.

The whole "Genie In the Lamp" gig stems directly from a collection of popular Middle-East Folktales "One thousand and one nights"(Arabian Nights). It' of a Prince who at one point in the story, encounters a Jinn that does outragiously spectacular things.  Disney's "Aladdin" theme is based off it, in which this will turn out to be the common Western Portrayal of Jinns as "Genies".

Alot of it also comes from History and Legends of Solomon the King, who was wealthy, powerful, A Sorceror, and was said to have power and control over armys of people, slaves,  and an even an army of  Jinns(Unseen) at his disposal to do his biddings.

But the reality of the Jinn-Human bond(Presently); in this world there are sorceror's and practitioners that work with Jinns, handing them offerings in exchange for sending them out to complete tasks..("Wishes")

Due to the translation of "Jinn" it really depends on what culture or spiritual background you come across,  described as to what a "Jinn" is.

Some people believe everything unseen is a Jinn, regardless of Classifications such as spirit,astral, etheric,nature etc.

Some people believe them to be Demons.

Some believe them to be the "Middle Ground" Between The Divine And The Diabolical.(Duality)

Some people believe them to be a specific type/race of Entity.



But most do agree on, Jinns themselves are affiliated as a combination of Infernal and Elemental(Nature, Fire, Wind.etc). They are free willed beings that are spectral and semi-corporal, so they can shape shift and are able to manifest in a variety of ways, even physically.

That's about it.'

Well like any other "type" of spiritual entity, some can notice them and their effects. It's natural for some people, but EVERYONE has potential to see. 

Obvious signs are Feeling A presence, see a Physical manifestation, hear a disembodied voice. etc

Sometimes they can be seen with the naked eye, but they are mostly interacted with through the "Mind's Eye" when encountered, if a person is capable of speaking to them and hearing them.

Ok, I'm learning a bit. But now I want to know why people say they live in dirty places, some say it is because they eat the trash. There is a sewers someplace near my house and my family tell me that it is not a good idea to wander near sewers at night.

Here is a rather interesting video I found of a woman who seemed to be possessed by a Djin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY-nJigkHnk&feature=related

In the comments you can see a lot of people saying it is fake, I think those people do not really have a spiritual side.

In general many backgrounds of people and occultists beleive malicious spirits wander and are attracted to uncleanliness. They gather around trash, filth, clutter, dumpsters, so in a part of thinking this they keep order in their home's to not attract anything that would be interest of it's disorder. If you go to a muslim though they will also say this same thing, but they will normally also add they hang out in "Marketplaces" because "that is where evil gathers" or "They are watching you in the bathroom." etc.

Jinn for the most part gather on top of trees and wide open fields, and they pay no notice to you as long as you respect them and their space. In general it doesnt mean they live in those places they are said to gather or wander through, but rather their realm's reside in those places.

There are specific places around the world that are said to have strong presence and hotspot of sightings of djinn, such as the Majlis al Jinn (meeting/gathering place of the Jinn). Once this area was used as a place for bungee jumping, however, the Country of Oman no longer allows entrance in the cave. The city of Bahala In Oman, is said to be full of djinns.

Remember we speak of realms, so it is unlikely to just be able to go to those places and view one. It just means those are some of the places that have high Djinn activity. Their world lies beyond our sight. To us, they are nothing more than caves, and small villages, but what lies beneath, is an unseen world of djinns.


As for the video, I cant really comment on it. This is the internet, and people will disagree no matter what. No amount 'Footage' can convince anyone no matter what their stance is, whether they claim to be spiritual or non-spiritual.

I dont have much to add as to what hasnt already been said, but very wonderful insight everyone, and I do agree for the most part. 

I was told they have families and get married and such, but why would they attack you.

As I've posted before, Jinn are very similiar in nature to Humans. Beings of duality, they can choose to do right or wrong, they have their own spirituality, religions, and beliefs to follow.(They do not have all the answers, they are as clueless to the universe as we are.) Some of them believe in a Creator God. Some dont.

They are not demons, they simply "are" .Yes they can get "married" , fall in love, have kids, grow old, and die. (They can live for thousands and thousands of years.)
Everything they experience in their semi-corporal space is the same we experience in life in the physical , both the good and the bad, the up's and the down. Their own life lessons etc.

Speaking from an objective standpoint, "Good" and "Evil" only exist as human concepts and it doesnt apply to them. They are simply indifferent towards us.

Some of them are perceived to have a malcious nature, being that they have the same disregard for human life, the way humans have disregard for animals, insects, and plant life we share on this earth. Think of it like that.

So for why they attack people, it can be out of pride, or feeling insulted/disrespected(There is many reasons to this.), A jinn can fall in love with a human and interfere with that persons life.( For positive benefits or negative consequences)

I wouldnt say SOME of them act malicious for the sake of being malicious, rather, people just have to understand they are intelligent beings, with an entirely different thought process and nature, they evolved differently from us, they have their own way of thinking and their own perceptions/view points. We cant always project our way of thinking and human concepts such as "good" and "Evil" on to them as they cannot even understand "good" from the standpoint of a human being for which it is not.

I just hear a lot of stories about how these djins attack people who are in the wrong place doing the wrong things. Just wanted to know what you guys think of this. It would be cool if everyone could just give their own opinion instead of disagreeing with each other and quoting each other.

All I will say is that it is a very real Phenomena. I already know the majority on this site holds a different opinion, but I have tons of experience as well as knowledge in the field.

I have had a few encounters and experiences I shared with even  disbelievers/skeptics from which they've became believers.. Although at this time, It is not something I will share here as I will normally just be accused of experiencing an over active "imagination" lol.  

(I would be more then happy to post information and content about the Jinns if that is what you are looking for)

Jinn are not typical "spirits". They are living beings similiar to us humans that reside "Behind the air" so to speak.(They are not just astral) There world merely co-exists with ours, whatever one chooses to call them, in other cultures there have mentioned beings of a similiar nature.(Even in my spiritual practice, The Orishas have similiar behaviour and mannerisms)

Although I will agree to an extent, that mainstream religions would rather demonize the metaphysical(Even these beings) rather then attempting to truly understand them.( They should be judged on their own merit, when encountered, I give everybody a chance lol.   )

Spirit people yes maybe they see them, they are harmless....demons and Djins (what ever that is) dont exist....just in films and in peoples imagination..not as a objective realty

I respectfully disagree with this, but I dont feel like getting into an argument, I just suggest we should stick to what the original topic was about in discussing jinn.

hugs.

EDIT: Just noticed "666" posts! congrats. Hehe  

I used to see them too. Djinn/Jinn roughly translates to "Unseen" or "Hidden". So it is somewhat of a general bucket term for Spirits and Entities, In my opinion I do not think it is an "Exclusive" type being, but more of an entity that is affiliated and resides in Nature among us.

If you go anywhere in the phillipines and indonesia or most of south eastern asia, they generally refer to malicious beings or nature spirits as "jinn" whether it's fae, gnome, elemental etc. But it is not a typical Islamic Jinn.