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I got to try this.... can you describe the procedure a little more pictorially?  I'm having trouble understanding where to put my 'other' hand.

Sure, it is just a schoolkid modified version of the rubber hand illusion, google it.

and whatever you are doing, your doing it right... keep it up : )

Hey there Atom,

Welcome to the forum! 

This is as good a place as any to post that.

First off, if you're been doing "WILD"s for 10 years, you have already been projecting... astral, obe, whatever... they're all just projections.  People love to attempt to categorize these things, but I've found that these categorizations are nothing more than misunderstanding and misinterpreting of experiences.  But that's a discussion for another time.

That was a pretty strong projection experience you had.  I have no idea what it could mean though... perhaps only time will tell.  Next year? 

Can you describe to me what you mean when you said you "felt the onset of the old familiar lucid dream?"  What is that old familiar feeling to you?

Agreed with Xanth...

they may differ a little bit, but in the long run they are all non-physical reality experiences. Categorizing leads to division and separation, when people should be focusing on the overall experience... But again, thats a whole different thread. I too am guilty of labeling...

I get spooked during these experiences and have no control in them sometimes... despite HATING them during...they always give me the best learning lessons on confidence and overcoming ANYTHING in the physical : )

RE: grounding... just a lil more...

A learned side affect since I been grounding...

We are all children of the earth.

On a higher plane most of us earthlings agree, we are equal "there" despite our behavior on earth.

Others may continue learned hateful behavior on earth due to their eyes not being open of the higher planes, or should I say any planes beside the earth.

We can try to inform them vocally, but that will mostly not work for 2 reasons...

Many will lose respect for you, and see you as a spiritual nut : )

The other reason is we may make them feel alienated, even as if we were pointing fingers at them. They may resent us, or feel inferior, and I dont want to hurt any feelings.

So now, I acknowledge mentally only.

I try to stay silent about this thing of ours unless I am speaking to like minded practitioners.

When my top down activation happened, I TOLD EVERYONE.

I wanted everyone to meditate, go to Qigong, etc...

I wanted others to believe based off  MY spiritual  experience, but they need to experience it themselves to believe it. Spiritual actions are louder than my words, just like the expression, "actions speak louder than words".

When others do wrong to me now or any wrong period, I stay silent, I acknowledge, and send the acknowledgment into my energy field, to the earth and higher planes. It will trigger LOA to do the talking for you. It is easier said than done, and I will admit my human reaction at first is to reciprocate the behavior back toward the person.

Do not exclude yourself from this also. When you catch yourself doing negative, visualize yourself doing those actions and send it to your energy field and the earth. It will trigger LOA to send you some lessons.

Grounding = ground = earth

In electricity, there is the term in America, a ground wire.... in europe they call them earthing straps.. they are exactly the same thing.

Ground is Earth... we are all children of earth... IMO, lets start acting like it : )

Hey pm1978 care tell how your top down activation went. I to am going through it right now it would be nice to have some insight. I would really like to know what was the result and how did you help the flow. Did you continue meditating from top down?

There is no short way to tell it.

I really dont top down, or bottom up meditate anymore, but rather as a whole. I think of all the chakras simultaneously, as well as my aura, and the chakras above me that are not on my physical body.

To ground I do the following... I visualize and focus as If I had chakras below me, just like when one would do a third eye meditation and focus on the brow...

When I want to do a quick ground, and I dont have time to meditate, I use a certain "feeling" I was taught during a lucid dream.

In this LD:

A voice told me to grab a rod, it was gold in color, I do not know its composition.

This rod induced unbelievable vibrations. They felt so real and full of electricity also, I asked myself, despite being an LD, "shouldnt I be dead by now" ?

For some reason my hands felt cold... VERY COLD.. despite vibrations causing Kinetic energy that science says should cause heat.

Now in the physical, I close my eyes for a second only, I think of the extreme cold and those unforgettable vibrations, I put the reaction and feeling into my aura and connect below me to the earth... instant ground... only takes a second or two.

Ah my third eye is calmed down now, but is also much more powerful.

Can see spirits much better, also had a spontaneous OBE. Connection with my guides is improved.

Ayahuasca helped me get much more grounded the night I died so maybe that helped the base chakras and the extra energy was able to flow down.

The higher you fly the harder you can fall... stop and let mother earth do her thing with you : ) She birthed our race here for a reason... take your astral lessons and put them to use here... it is hard to do with a top down activation... I too was activated top down... I asked one day why and was told "it was to the only way we couldve got your attention".

Read the fable of prometheus ..   correction, Icarus... the flight of icarus

Maybe those spiders need you ?

Sleep in late and do some non-physical contemplation .. find answers... you might not get them in words( or maybe you will), but if you are sincere you will get results, even physically (LOA)... even if it is tough love : )

Ha-ha!  This isn't the first time I've been accused of having a mundane OBE life, Lionheart.  LOL!  I'd gladly kick it up a notch if I knew how.  Actually I'm pretty apprehensive about meeting E.T.s  My fear of creepy things is probably holding me back. --sigh.  All my best, most enlightened experiences happened when I first started --in my "age of innocence" before the bad experiences came along.  Ever since I've had to fight to work my way back to that place of fearlessness I started out with. 

None of it is mundane... contemplate over the places you attract there... it will start making sense...lessons : )

The subconscious mind throws me a bad one every now and then... I think its feedback from our ways in the physical that can attract it. I always get the best learning lessons from the scary and ugly ones.

I hear alot of people stating awakenings are supposed to happen from the bottom to the top, but it always doesnt work that way.

I think it may be to get the attention of the being quicker.

I had this same problem.

The only time I'd feel the rest of the Chakras getting energized was during Hypnagogia.

Kegel exercises help with the root  but wont do the job completely.

Breathing exercises helped with the Heart Chakra.

I had to go to chiropracter, physical therapy, and  massage therapist after a car accident. My Massage therapists gave me Cranial-Sacral therapy which totally awakened my throat chakra. She happened to be into energy healing and was very in tune.


I have a technique, someone actually showed it to me in an LD... where I grab an electricity rod and feel my hands vibrate to the point they are burning. I can recall this sensation from the dream anytime and just ground my whole body now.

Conscious every day self: Hey, subconscious, in 6 months I want a new car.

Subconscious mind: Ok, in 6 months he will want a new car.



Guess what in 6 months. Re-read the above carefully if you dont get it at first.

Sometimes it best to visualize only and not words... OBSERVE then MERGE...

As Depeche Mode says " Enjoy the silence" : )

No...

It is in your best interest to stay away from Fluoride.

I still use fluoride products only because every toothpaste in the supermarket contains fluoride.

I am not going out of my way to buy non-fluoride toothpaste.

I experience non-physical reality states daily.

China did some interesting test on the rumoured " Chinese super psychic kids".

They found when many of them hit puberty, the Pineal Gland started calcifying naturally and the psychic phenomena stopped.

But dont let that stop you from practicing.

Drunvalo Melchizedek talks quite a bit about that Chinese experiment on youtube.

Never forget the brain has neuroplasticity, if you have a weak pineal gland, the surrounding areas of the brain only get stronger to compensate.

Objective Visualization - Your watching the dream, including yourself.

Subjective Visualization - your dreaming from your own eyes.

I have been told mine work.... they zone me out..and they are free : )

https://soundcloud.com/philthomas

higher-music.com offers free tunes also.. he also has a pay what you want for his pay tunes..

and below////this stuff is totally worth paying for if you get bored of the same wobbly sine waves, they offer freebies from time to time if you get on their email list:

http://conscious-sound.bandcamp.com/

So I've recently learnt how to generate my own isochronic tones and time them how I want, and I've been doing a little playing around and it definitely works. But I've noticed that when my brain's frequency is around 5hz (or so I read on Audacity), I'll start experiencing my day-dreams as if they're real, but I'll still have complete control of my physical body. For instance, something in this vivid day-dream made me laugh so I found doing that little noise people make when they find something slightly amusing and it was from the perspective of someone witnessing the humour and not thinking it up himself.

Over-all my main aim is to be able to go so deep that sleep paralysis (or whatever it's been found to be called now) occurs at my computer chair and sends me there, directly from the waking state. But what I've experienced so far is quite interesting, that the state of mind is completely changeable purely by listening to audio.

Anyone got any comments or advice to further my experimentation?

Your doing it right : )

Some people need visualization, some need to do energy exercises to feel it..some use tones to hear it.

Ever hear the saying " Can you hear what im saying " ...  auditory

"can you feel me?  " ... kinesthetic people

"you see what im saying ? " ... visual

I make my own tones and layer them with soundscapes...

I love gamma waves !

you can have a listen at my soundcloud page:

https://soundcloud.com/philthomas

I don't know much about Randi, but the world is full of charlatans, looking to cash in on self proclaimed abilities, bogus stories and bogus products, which you can find all over the alternative thinking parts of the internet.

Skeptics and scientists serve an important role in debunking them, but of course one always has to keep an open mind, which some of these people refuse to have.

THere is what is called the scientific attitude which consist of 3 behaviors:

Curiosity ( always asks questions, uses critical thinking, )

Skepticism ( be open to challenge, doesnt accept everything they are told but still keep an open mind in case of see 3rd behavior)

Humility ( to accept it when your hypothesis are wrong)

Remember Scientist who engage in skepticism are still open minded and will to test in case they hypothesis against a claim are wrong...

Randi doesnt keep an open mind... he goes straight for the debunk...

I saw a youtube video where he debunks a man who claims to be magnetic who held light sheet metal to his chest claiming it was being held to his chest magnetically... randi put powder on the mans chest and the metal know longer stuck to his chest....

How do we not know randi did not soak this powder in opposite charged water that would force the magnets to oppose rather than stick ?

No one tests randi ??

We used to do this trick in middle school where you put one hand in the desk and your other hand on top of the desk. Another person puts there hand on top of the desk too where your other hand would be...

Someone will go to smash the other persons hand sharing the desktop with you, and your brain is convinced it is your hand and you jump out of the way... your hand that is hiding does feel a "phantom sensation"...

Have you ever tried walking while your leg fell asleep ?

It feels kinda like that..

Once you get used to AP, you just change the environment with your feelings or mind... maybe so you dont get leg pain while walking through infinity

(If I've posted this in the wrong section please tell me so I can remove and replace it elsewhere, i'm new to forums so I need knowledge )

Somebody on YouTube keeps posting this comment on pretty much every AP video I research. I find it to be very unlikely, I haven't done my research on what he's talking about because I'd rather expand my learning of AP. I need people to shed some light. Mainly because it can deter people away from doing AP.

The Comment
"The Astral Plane, Astral Travel/Projection, OBE, 5th Dimension etc. is actually what is called Cloning Centers. When someone projects or travels, their consciousness is transferred into a clone (most likely a REM-driven Mark 2 clone) at a Cloning Center (in the 3rd Dimension) while experiencing MK Ultra visual and audio effects. Also, your clone may be pre-drugged to make it feel like a dream. These Cloning Centers are above and below ground (in DUMBs).
Look up: Donald Marshall, Cloning & Vril"

I don't know about you but, I'd be pretty freaked out if I just herd about AP and I came across this comment. Purely because it seems like your not "free" to do what you want like the experts say you can do. Its almost as if your details of your whole being is input into these "cloning systems" and "pre drugged" sounds to me that its something I wouldn't want to deal with if I was a beginner.

I have an open mind, but this needs clarification. I just don't see how the 3D can gather infomation about your spirit body? Doesn't add up.

Thanks, Sam 

There is so much "propaganda", conspiracy theory, etc...

Fear sells...

And for some people,sure you can AP something like that... why not...

a cloning center would be merely a speck of sand in this thing call INFINITY... choose to go somewhere better... learn to raise your vibration high enough to stay out of low vibration places... live this and others will see your light

If you do find yourself in some sketchy area of the plane remember these two words HEART ENERGY.

False awakenings... you think your awake until your hand goes through a glass of OJ, mind get does a perplexing WTF, and you snap back to body : )

Try doing reality checks in the morning on the way to brush your teeth or something : )

Yes, I wake up with Occular headaches, but not all the time. Just with really intense ones when my 3rd eye is very active.

Occular headaches are the ones when your (regular not 3rd : )  eye is throbbing with pain right behind your eye.

I went two weeks doing really applying some mental and energy gymnastics I learned while reading about Ankh sexuality loops... and after 2 weeks my mind was on overdrive and my head felt zonked... extreme migraine...

Funny how the word occular and occult look alike : )

Randi always has a way out.. he's a professional debunker...not a professional skeptic as he claims... skeptics still keep open minds remember.

daily also...

i can step back and watch the dream form sorta... hard to explain...

I can watch my dream like its on a screen also... but the slightest thing that catches my attention changes the dream...

example...Like if I see a red brick, it will remind me of my friends red jacket... than I totally shift the whole dream to that friend..

Depends on the person.. practice it and don't stop ... they start coming naturally eventually.

I've heard 45 minutes for this technique... 50 minutes... half hour... 5 minutes...

Find your happy medium 

Check out my tunes here. I have 3 meditation tunes, and an unofficial  dance remix of a JS Epperson tune ( i got his blessing for the release )

https://soundcloud.com/philthomas

No. I also watched a Drunvalo Malchizedek video regarding the chinese super psychic kids. He said on the tests done by them, many of the kids once they hit puberty lost their abilities and there pineal gland started to calcify. The kids who didnt lose their abilities did not calcify.

I've read alot of speculation about it which i can say i can or cannot prove all of the theories out there regarding flouride and the pineal. But if fluoride does calcify the pineal, mind should be solid as a rock. I LD pretty much every day naturally, and OBE on the reg.