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 Awoke after about 5 hrs sleep. Tired, but unable to fall asleep again- this has  been happening a lot lately. After a while, I noticed a sound near my left ear. A wubwubwub throbbing sound. I felt that it was a spherical ball of energy- green or blue. I mentally drew the ball to me- it entered my head near my left ear. The wubwubwub sound became sweeping motion up & down my body. My vision immediately changed from blackness, to lucid, 3d. I heard many different conversations all at once. It was difficult to listen to. After a bit of time- it felt long, but it probably wasn't, a green or blue EYE appeared in front of me, just watching me. It had a tiny "body" to it-no arms legs, but a surrounding "body" it was almost funny looking. I felt another awareness within  it. It was interested in me. It was just watching me. I noticed that I could mentally stimulate very specific area near my left ear, & strengthen the sweeping motion up & down my body. The sweeping motion was moderately fast. Slightly faster than I usually comfortably visualize energetic motion, & it was MUCH stronger.

Then, I had the most amazing dream of ufos in a darkened sky. Illuminating their light within clouds, darting around the sky. I was alone at night. Beautiful!

Even now, I feel that I could stimulate the area near my left ear, & create the sensations while awake. Not sure what would happen though!

Standing signs and subtle flares
Too indistinct for mortal hairs
Gleams in mist on mantle fair
and more to link to thine own stare.

In my eyes a singe flint
A flame for all, or ones own stare.
How my eyes can sing my tune,
onward to my funeral moon-
in laughing sighs or winging high,
A faster glide drowns sacred tides.
Too fast to hear in ones own hall,
Though tide may bring it all ashore.

And clinging on I dine again.
No sign of dunes or longings fall,
no need to know the needs that bring
that onward fall to blight circling.

Reams of knowns, unknown to fault
how many times must we default?
from finest lines unknown to halt,
For thine own noon and ringing vault.

Cathedrals spin on centres tall-
Thy knowing grin unknown to fault.
How light they fling their sacred tines,
in blinding sight that needs no hind.

No limb to bring a dove so fair-
Too fair by far for hide nor hair.
I catch and glide from limb to limb,
I catch their breeze and climb from day and night.

Its ultimately your right to decide what to believe. Not sure how old or young you are, but:

arguments can be had at any side: for this, or against that...for anything you can imagine.

To me, the dividing line (& personal strength) comes down to personal, DIRECT, experience.

Not something that someone tells you 2nd hand (at best).

To me, personal experience trumps anything 2nd hand-given great self examination so as to avoid simplistic delusion. Not everything can be put into words at all, PERIOD( & wherein to try, I shall fail horribly)

let alone convenient sound bytes able to understood by anyone at any time, simply by common debate about known knowns via subtle angles of common reasoning.


That which is entirely uncommon to know, CAN be found out, but nobody can tell you- you must find for yourself. Use your passion, therefore a strong intention-a true NEED TO KNOW. The language it can be expressed to you needs no language at all.

I am at the point now, where I know that we are something so much greater than "electric meat"!  I usually fail horribly at either explaining (anything), yet my personal experience has been so vivid, sublime at times. I don't need to believe this or that, or anything.

A question that can break all bonds of common reasoning:
Is science from the body that compels it?

I remember a place that is very hard to describe- temples made of sound & resonance that was so deep & beautiful that there aren't any words for it.
Resonance so deep that it was the force of creation for everything in that particular reality.  Yet I didn't need anything at all, because that sound was existence. The sound & "I" were one & the same. I can't even express it properly, so I'll just stop before I say something stupid.

The experience sprang from a feeling I get sometimes that I am not from here. A feeling so strong that it makes me cry- It makes me make a fool of myself, trying to express it in words.

I just realized that I have been posting off and on in this forum for awhile, & I'd never done an introduction.

I'm from Canada. Always been a "space-cadet", for lack of better term. Always been a "sky enthusiast".  Paranormal activity, for me, goes back a long long way. I grew up in a small village, in a very old house (1890's) in Ontario. The walls were 2 feet thick, the house had it's own cistern. Our house was surrounded by forest, farmland, & swampland, & it was a beautiful place to grow up. My brother claims he saw a ghost of our great grandmother in our house there, & an entity that came into our room while I was sleeping in the upper bunk, & he was awake in the lower bunk. He said it looked like it had a long snout, & it had a what looked like a knife, but really, it could have been anything-ie scientific device. My brother thought that he thought it was going to kill me. He was so terrified of this being that he hid under the covers & told it to go away. It was gone when he looked again. That place creeped me the heck out, but I loved it anyways. When we moved to the city I had my first  UFO sighting.I was with my brother actually. We were using our GT Snowracers in about 1986. I noticed a bright large orange orb transversing the sky towards our location. A slightly smaller orange orb travelled from the opposite part of the sky. They came together, & more, smaller orange orbs split off from the largest one. They eventually formed a large triangle,suspended in the sky. It remained there for about 30 seconds, perfectly stationary. Then the smaller orbs went back into the largest orb, & the two origional orbs flew away in separate directions again.

When I was about 15 & started practicing OBE & AP. I'm nearly 38 now, & only recently got back into AP after about a decade away from it.. I have explored various paranormal subjects, including evp, remote viewing, telepathy, ap & obe. I have had about 20 ufo sightings-most since 2011. Current experiments include the exploration of communication w/non-human intelligences.

If there are any members who are knowledgable w/communication w/non humans, specifically the Zeta. Whoa! voice in my mind just said "Whitefish". There is a Whitefish Montana. Is anyone on the forum from there?

Or maybe I'm crazy, or maybe it's just some random non-forumite there.

It's a strange life.


I'm also an artist, musician (guitar,bass,piano/synth) & composer of orchestral music. Currently interested in scoring a short silent film or piece of silent animation for someone, if anyone is interested. Even if it's just  a video of your hike through the forest. If it moves me enough, I'd like to score it. A vid about an astral projection would be great!

Thanks!

Nothing last night, did dream about AP though. Was relaxing before I had to get up, & a half-thought came into my mind, for just a split second about why I didn't have any AP before I awoke, that I could remember anyhow. Then a voice enters my conciousness  saying "just laying low" then I heard what I would call "typical sounds from my work" . As if to say that I had to conserve my energy for the day ahead, instead of AP or OBE.

Tomorrow is my day off so I'll try again.

I used this technique last night, & added intention to it. I had my first astral projection in nearly a decade! It was a very, very long & vivid experience. Judging from the setting, it could have been the "belief system territories" (is this focus 27?). It was a very natural setting- a lot of forest & parkland. I don't remember very much, but I do know that I was talking to someone there, & I started crying, just really crying to him, & saying "I have a body in the earth-life system, & I don't want to go back there!! "

He said something about how I could go to a certain place there, & do something or other,  then I could maybe stay there.

Right now I'm thinking that if this is how we die, then there is truly nothing to worry about. It would be a celebration if it were common knowledge. What is sad is the people left behind to clean up the mess


Gotta go to bed soon. I'll try again.

A topic with which I'm very much involved at the moment!  An experiment from  last night:

Was at work, & I mentally sent out a message asking for a sighting, & what time would be best for communication tonight. Asked for a sighting that would teach me something about the contact process. I thought this may entice more contact by not wasting their efforts just for us to see lights in the sky. Especially because I've learned that while they seem to be more ambivalent, than benevolent or malevolant. I had to sift through some initial impressions that I felt were from my own expectations, before receiving something strong, although there are certainly no guarantees. 12:15am was the time. Went outside at about 12:05am (they have been early before!). At this point I just try to find a quiet, dark spot where I won't be noticed-where people won't think I'm looking into their houses or something. Then I remember a particularily memorable dream from several years ago: I'm standing outside in the middle of the night, looking straight up into the clear night sky. I see the faintest point of light. It becomes brighter & closer the more I look at it. I start to feel as if I'm pulling it towards me. I realize it is something travelling down from higher dimensions, "folding into itself" into various geometric forms, generally increasingly simplified. Things may not manifest HERE exactly the way they may THERE- a things nature may be variable depending upon your point of view. As it reached me, just above my head, it literally exploded into a brilliant blue UFO. This dream revealed to me the truth of the connection between psychic ability, meditation, higher self, & multi-dimensional contact.

The technique I used last night was to first raise energy (need a better term there!) through all centers, search inward for the tiniest pinpoint of light in the heart region. I feel it, I feed it through the raising of energy. I make it larger. I surround my entire body with it. I then breath in though my nose, & feed the throat (communication) center, & the brow center at the same time. Then, I create a direct line of sight into the edge of space. I create a white light of psi to it. I "pulse" between myself, &  the tiniest point at the edge of the earths atmosphere. This possibly tends to create a kind of point of reference in my conciousness, for them to travel through, into three dimensional space. I then draw from the earth, through my feet, out of my brow center to the point. Feed it, create a ball of light in your minds eye that is so brilliant it is like a beacon for all to see who are able. Try to see directly upwards as if through a tunnel, & pull, as if using Robert Monroe's OBE method, only in physical conciousness, into that point at the edge of space. Do this until you feel it is enough, then just stop, & mbe mentally silent, & with a clear mind, gaze at the night sky. Watch for movement, but be way of personal expectations creating the illusion of the stars moving slightly. Don't be fooled by things such as that. When the real thing happens, you will know it.

& I know this will sound silly, but have flashlight on you as a signalling device. Believe it or not, I've had one of the most amazing sightings of my life because of a type of call & response phenomenon.

That's very interesting Chaos Mage- I have not experienced anything like that (yet- although it is an interesting avenue to explore). Yes you are right about the difference between theory and practice- & paralells can be found everywhere- fictional or non-fictional. It has been said (I forget by whom) that all of life itself can be seen as an act of Magick.

As far as your categories relate to my personal experience- I'd say it involves aspects of green (telepathy), & some of purple (invocation of multi-dimensional intelligences).

Your experience the other night may well have been a multi-dimensional experience- although it certainly is easy enough to just get turned around & disoriented in the woods-especially where I live (BC Canada). The feeling of timelessness is interesting though-this is something that I feel relates to the true nature of humanity- we ourselves are essentially timeless & multidimensional- although very few of us are awake to the fact- & those that are, are labelled as mentally deficient- a typically ironic & backwards "label". Heck, even the concept of labelling ourselves as only this or that is incredibly ignorant. Humanity seems to be stuck in a kind of limiting mentality, when the truth is the exact opposite- an entire spectrum of potentialities, as you have alluded to.


Therefore, I tend to agree w/what Loinheart said about neutrality-the rest is just intent & labelling.

Is there an order that is best for one to develope the different magic skills?  Obviously you cannot just start out with purple magic 

Are you referring to me?

If yes, I'm just trying desperately to gain some point of reference for what has been a truly EXTRAORDINARY year

I didn't know that there were categories for that sort of thing, besides the obvious white/black thing.

It hasn't just been "happening to" me- I've initiated sightings nearly ten times in the past year, & "they" have been doing the same. I managed to film the phenomenon twice (I've only had a cellphone since last October), athough footage was poor (I have a very low-line cellphone, w/ no data plan). I couldn't even transfer my crappy footage to my computer, so I just erased it. I've always been a stargazer & skywatcher, & I had one sighting when I was about 9 yrs old (I'm 36 now), & then suddenly starting last May, it's like a dam broke or something. Very, very strange- I thought I was hallucinating at first, but after I captured footage twice- during two sightings that I initiated, I've begun to rule that out.

I don't expect anyone to believe me- I don't bring it up, or report to MUFON period (I don't trust them), but this seems like a good place to bring up the subject...

& I must apologize for being a thread highjacker, it's just that I really need to find people who have knowledge about the contact experience- I'm gaining knowledge as I go, but I feel like I've found the holy grail & want to share it, only nobody wants it  

would purple magick include UFO contact? My personal, direct experiences indicate that it is a muti-dimensional phenomenon.

I know little of magick, just what happens to me, & phenomenon I've been able to initiate. I am an avid reader of the subject-fascinating, if a little obtuse many times. Eliphas Levi is my favourite.

Another question- how does one know the difference between clairaudience, & the "whisperings in the head" you mention? Positive/negative qualities of content?

The problem I have w/studies such as this one are that they are usually heavily based in confimational bias- Looking for "canned" answers to a hypothesis, rather than being truly unsure & balanced either way.

They don't truly understand how many baseline assumptions & "givens" are in their belief system that is the foundation for the creation of a hypothesis. I've seen so many of these studies that were extremely flawed from the outset- almost like looking for "safe" answers they can be comfortable with, that support limited thinking patterns, & do not upset that status quo (they really need those research grants!).

When was the last time that a scientist began from a hypothesis that OBEs, UFOs etc are not a product of the imajination? Were not allowed to prove this. Especially in the case of UFOs- People with hardcore proof have tended to dissapear. Thousands & thousands of people knowing that something is up,  Hundreds, maybe thousands of reputable military personell saying they would testify in any court or in front of any congress as to the existance of UFOs. Sightings that go back to the beginnings of man, Several cases of physical anomalous artifacts left behind after witnessing a UFO. Physical evidence in the form of scars, strange skin markings that suddenly appear overnight, w/the supposed victims w/ LARGE MEMORY GAPS.

At least 2 cases of  "human mutilation"- one in about 1952, & another a few yrs ago, w/the same operations performed on the body (which was dumped somewhere in South America Brazil maybe- removed where the same body parts as found on cattle mutilations, with lazer accurate , cauterized wounds. Lines burned into the skin so that it does not bleed at all. Skin cut as if with a lazer with cut lines between skin cells . These they write of as the work of predatorial feeding, or "cults"-  apparently w/hyper advanced medical technology? . ...

Hi Ali21-

My first sighting was with my brother & it was incredible. I have seen them. Several times.  I can't blame anyone for being skeptical. I would not believe me either if I were someone else.   

Your post is very 2-sided- are you not sure what to think about the subject? Perhaps maybe these sightings are actually military experiments?

Update- Another "hallucination". I used memory to attempt to telepathically re-connect this time, instead of recieve like last time
Note- I was experimenting successfully w/telepathy while bored at work weeks previous to the boomerang craft sightings). I've been experimenting w/OBEs, & other various psychically linked subjects (including energy body work) for about 20 yrs. I've always been highly empathetic to others feelings- it seems that it's just expanding to encompass their thoughts now.

Anyways, this time they said to be outside at 11:30pm and maybe I'll see something. I went outside at the appointed time, & saw a very bright white sphere of light travel from near one horizon, over the zenith very high, then fade to a dull red, then dissappear. I was so surprized that I burst out laughing to/at myself- I  thought "ok this is just getting rediculious!". Until it faded out, I'd also like to add that it travelled at the speed of a passenger aircraft, & seemed to project a low rumble like one.

And yes, I know about the Persieds. This (these) are not comets. I see those as well. I see satellites all the time.


Time to call the loony bin? 

 
Someone else whos seen them! Hi  


What could it mean? Well, I've been pushing for awhile for direct communication- an ancounter of the third kind- maybe this is their way of upping the ante- to see how serious I am.

Their question may be: "Ya but...will he show up? "

My answer "Hi- here I am! I know you're there "

I may be playing w/fire here (I've read some horror stories about the subject of "human mutilation" & experimentation) , but it's worth it to me. This subject has been part of one of mankinds greatest quests for millennia.

Maybe I' fu$#king nuts, but I think they may be monitoring me- I hear a faint beep deep in my head somewhere when I'm meditating. Usually one or two very high pitched beeps. It started about 3 yrs ago after a dream about being abducted. I hear it when i'm on the borderline state. Once, there was such a barrage of beeping & blooping that it woke me up instantly- they were LOUD. Recently I heard it when I began to get symtoms of  the beginnings of an OBE- it beeped, & the symptoms were gone instantly. I guess they don't want me knowing to much- therefore, caution is needed.

Oh yeah- I've actually had 4 sightings this year alone, not 3. I forgot about the "star mimick" craft that suddenly dissappeared on a clear night in May. Since then, the sightings have increased in the "wow" factor each time. The time before this- just a few nights before actually, I witnessed a normal looking aircraft slowly morph into a single pulsing ball of white light. It started as a normal plane on one end of the horizon (this was at Moyie Lake, british Columbia), & the blinking white light slowly started to slow down its rate of pulsation, & somewhere along the way it lost the red wing lights as well. By the time it was over my head, I only knew where it was because of the pulsing white light every 3-5 seconds or so. tHen it just disseppeared. The "passenger airplane" never did reach the other end of the horizon. They chose to reveal that to me for some reason.

OH yeah I forgot to add that when I say they were "V" shaped- they were actually more like a boomerang type of V shape- & not like the little boomerang shaped stealth craft we have-they were very very large, about 2 thirds translucent, very very  fast & completely silent- this is why hardly anyone ever sees them. Plus, the fact that UFOs are considered a joke to most people. One could land on there head & they'd still say it was swamp gas reflected of Venus or something.

First of all, I'm not asking everyone to believe me- I know this will sound strange. Who knows, maybe I am crazy- but I also know I saw something very cool last night- & I knew it was going to happen. If you think I'm a liar, please keep it to yourself- I have nothing to prove- just an interesting experience to share.

I awoke about 9 or 10 in the morning on one of my days off. I was "noticing", & heard a voice in my head telling me to be outside at 11:30pm to see a UFO. I got up & thought about it that day, & I even listened to a song by Frank Zappa called "Inca Roads" which is about a UFO. I went over to my uncles place in the evening, & I came home about 11:00pm. I stayed outside for a few minutes looking at the sky & remembering what I was told. I saw a satellite pass overhead. Then a bright flash of white light from the same direction as  the satellite. The white light changed direction very quickly & took off in a tight u-turn. I thought "hmm...they're starting early!". I watched the sky for about 10 minutes & saw nothing, so I went inside. I came back outside at 11:30pm as was "scheduled". I hoped something would happen, but wasn't counting on it. Then a HUGE V-shaped, translucent craft flew directly overhead- totally silent. Hold your arms outstretched it would be over 6 inches across the sky. It looked like it was "half there". It had 2 large bluish-white lights on each "wing". Even the lights were translucent. I could see it best using peripheral vision. If I looked directly at it I only saw the translucent bluish white lights on each side. I said something like "HOH-leyy S#$T!". Then about a minute later ANOTHER one flew overhead. Same thing- translucent with bluish white lights on each wing, completely silent. I watched it pass under the path of the light from a star- it didn't block out the star. Then as it flew away from me I saw the body of the craft using peripheral vision.

I was comepletely blown away. I've seen UFOs before, but this was by far the most dramatic sighting since my first sighting in about 1986.

I watched the sky for awhile longer-maybe 10 minutes. 2 more bright flashes of light appeared overhead- almost at the zenith.One light at about the "5 oclock" position, another at about the "11 oclock" position. I watched for another few minutes. I saw another single light near the zenith, only more to my right. First a dim light, then it got REALLY bright a couple times, then it faded away.

It was almost like they were saying "We see you there! Here's one final one before we go!".

I've seen more UFOs in the past 3 months than I have in my entire life. I've had 5 sightings total that I can clearly remember. First 2 sightings were in Ontario Canada, the rest in Cranbrook, British Columbia Canada.

I agree that you don't really need it, but it is a good way of challenging the fear response related to OBEs, & SP can also lead to OBEs as well. I achieved this yesterday, several times- here's how:
1)lack of proper sleep for several days (about 5 hrs/night).
2)exhausting work during the day
3)after 2 days of this, I came home, tried to wind down,.Then I got really tired, so I...
4)used http://gnomad.info/boxed-nirvana.htm
(part C "Delta"), followed by http://beemp3.com/download.php?file=6381088&song=
5)Boxed Nirvana part c really helped me get relaxed, & I fell asleep soon into Astral Trance.
6)Awoke after it was over, in full paralysis.All senses were shut down-could barely feel my body, & I couldn't hear my large fan next to my bed (hearing was shut down).
I immediately recognized the state as sleep paralysis- I havemn't had it in many years, but I used to get spontaneous OBEs & SP on a nightly basis. I haven't tried that particular series of binaurals before that day. I also haven't had an OBE in several years, but I managed to get my left arm out (trying to grab the "dweller on the threshold" which seems to enjoy projecting evil & fear-this just makes me angry at it though!).Of course, after I get angry at it, the fear disappears, as does the dweller. Then I awoke & thought about the events. Then I attempted to achieve SP again. I noticed that the paralysis response seems to come from the chest area while lying on my back, plus a certain sinking feeling which one may achieve by being relaxed, clear minded,lying on your back at or near focus 10, & repeating the words "down,down,down..." to yourself, like a mantra ( a mantra in a clear mind becomes nothing less than a COMMAND). Once you start to feel the downward sensation, just ride with that for awhile, then experiment with & combine the "chest feeling"- possibly an energy centre there, or a buildup of energy there (Which maybe projects outward into the dweller?)  plus the sinking feeling. Try to combine the two, then try to be as fearless as you can.


The key, I think, is to NOT MOVE when you wake up, as focus 10 is usually very easy to acheive if you can remeber to do this.

I hope this helps- I worked for me!
Have fun!

[Quote:]

d3nd- Your approach to the subject of OBE & astral Projection is akin to an astronomer holding a

lighter in front of a telescope, & thus,  attempt to light up the entire universe...




Quote:
Well , the purpose of this post is to raise some questions and for people to begin to take

this topic serious, now that the most serious person who always achieves what he wants in life

is on teh topic, you are guys are lucky.

Naive, yet concieted. Possibly par for the course for a newcomer to the subject, so don't worry about it.


Quote:
Yes we have all heard the phrase : " go experience it to be happy " .. but that doesn't quite

cut it for us skeptics who spend literally endless hours trying the same thing over and over.  I

hate to sound rude, but its the reality of this situation, some order needs to be put in place

here.

This, while a seemingly standoffish statement, is a refreshing contrast to the attitude of most

skeptics- The flawed concept of "burdon of proof". It will not be handed to you on a silver

platter- least of all here. You want proof? You will work for it.  


Quote:
I am going to be here for the next 60 + years of this forums' life to see for certain the

answer and whether or not you were all fakers, just teasing the younger population.

Whether or not you achieve the skill in question has nothing to do with whether everyone who has

ever claimed to have an obe is faking it, success or failure depends entirely on YOU. Start by

reading historical accounts of OBEs- they go back a long, long, long way.Since mankinds

beginnings, infact. You don't actually reason that everyone in history, ever, is lying & "faking

it", or deluded beyond hope? Use you "high capacity thinking" to think of some common sense,

please.

Quote:
Hope this raises some positive vibrational frequency amongst the fellow wizards here.

Wizards? Don't worry- any naivete will be burned off, & forged into strong, direct experience.




In your search for absolutes, understand that they are usually nothing more than human-made

constructs, reflecting not the ever-present absolute, but the belief systems, cutural framings, & perceptual idiosyncrocies, of the questioner- similar to the way a scientist does not neccesarily discover natural truths, but instead, receives natures response to his line of questioning.

Just to be curious about the subject may not (probably won't) be enough. Just how badly do you want to know?

 Subject reminds me of a strange dream about astral to physical manifestation I once had. There was an astral company called "The Midnight Express" that sent objects from the astral to physical dimensions, but in order to do this, an individual had to find the company first, located in an astral dimension. Finding TME meant that you had to be extremely super-lucid in order to rememer just how you got to TME, for the purpose of retracing your specific journey back to the physical. You had to remeber specific numbers & phrases like "passwords" as you journey there & back.


   

I'm going to ignore that evidence.

I know- weak evidence/just a tv show.

...just trying to illustrate the negative potential of outright dismissal.
Do you think that balanced skepticism is a much more intelligent perspective?

QuoteWhen people sleep, there is no consciousness.

Mind awake/body asleep ("focus 10") is a type of concious sleep, a feeling as floating in a void of "pure self", for lack of better term.

Quote There are a lot of stories and movies about a Ghost houses. I think if putting someone who does not believe and is not afraid of ghost in those Ghost houses, there is nothing happens, and the ghost house becomes a normal house.
.

Not true, actually- ever see an old MTV reality show called "Fear"? The people who in the beginning (arrogantly) say "I don't believe in this stuff, I'll last the next two days easy" *sits back & folds arms*, are always the first to quit, or flip out & start crying. I can guarantee you that this type of attitude in the face of forces larger than yourself can be a traumatising expereince.
Also a newer show called "ghost hunters"- one episode featured a professional fighter who didn't believe in the so called "paranormal".He ended up screaming & running away like a little girl!

There are many forms of belief systems that serve to make us feel at peace & in control while surrounded by such "things" as infinity (our universe, & all other "dimensions" (lack of better term). Religion, to me, allows for a glimpse of higher forces, like a tiny hole in a dam. If we perceived as if the entire dam collapsed, our conciousness would be literally flooded with infinity, & the results would not be pretty-we would go insane.

To me, each religion is like one facet of a diamond, but no one being-except god- knows everything, which is why I tend not to follow just one- they're just a way of labelling things that ultimately can't be labelled, & thus fall short.I guess I'm an agnostic- I don't beleive in anything, not even death, or absolute perception, or religion, or science-they're all incomplete.

I believe in everything, but I don't beleive in anything.

[Is science from the body that compells it?]

The problem is that we often equate 'Materialists' with 'Scientists'.  A scientist looks at data, and interprets it on the merit of the data itself.  A pseudoskeptic or materialist 'scientist', has the preconceived notion that 'this just can't happen', and therefore don't bother to look at the data, and simply declare it flawed, or decide there must have been something wrong with it, if the results don't match their belief system of what's possible.  This is not science, it's scientism.

Some terms here ^  that clarify things I've noticed for awhile (& haven't been able to pin down-something just "felt wrong" )about many, many self-described skeptics, & also scientists- I call it "glossing":
The seemingly subconcious tendency for most people to point out only most obvious & "debunkable" aspects of someones described experience.These aspects are argued against in order to more easily support an ego desire for control, while at the same time completely, absolutely ignoring & forgetting aspects of the same decribed experience which are unexplainable to the sceptic & go against the grain of their belief system.
Such pseudoskeptics or materialists insist that they are not biased, yet the very nature of their attitude is usually highly biased toward supporting their own world view which gives them an illusion of control & safety- an "it's not because it can't be" type of thinking that seems to be based mostly on fear.    

Belief systems usually run to the very core of any hypothesis:
"What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning."
Werner Heisenberg
A hypothesis wouldn't even be hypothesised in the first place if that particular individual hadn't stepped in & asked a certain line of questioning which is built upon a foundation of base line belief systems about their observed reality.

The true skeptic, on the other hand is more finely balanced, attitude-wise, & unfortunately, very rare.

This raises a question to ask yourself:

Is science from the body that compells it?

Religion is no better, of course.Just another form of circular reasoning to support a particualr belief system.The only difference is that science-based world views are based on a form of reasoning (therefore based upon pre-existing conditions) that already, & only exists in the mind of the scientist, & religion-based world views are based upon pre-existing emotional interpretations of their own belief system. Of course they both have the arrogance to clain that only they know the so-called truth.

Another diffucult aspect of AP that would be very diffucult to translate would be the inherently, & instantaniously creative aspect of astral conciousness.

eg- how would you translate what it's like to have a thought that INSTANTLY changes the progection?

How would you translate what it's like to create astral thoughtforms (objects) out of reality itself, just by willing it to happen?

How would you translate the feeling of the level of concentration required to sustain a projection?

It would have to be open-ended to a degree never programmed into the most open ended of todays games

Great idea though

1) I kept seeing "lines" shooting off of everything, going up at various angles from objects, into the sky- lots of them from trees.I asked my mom "what are these lines everywhere?" she just said "what lines?".I never brought it up again.I can still see them if I want to, & have managed to develop auric vision as well.

2)It was night.I was awake in bed & looking around at all these really unusual looking fish swimming all around me.I was not afraid of them at all, but I was fascinated, however.

3)This one involves my brother- we had bunkbeds in a house that me & my brother thought was haunted. I loved living there, but it was very creepy at times. Once he said that he saw a tall, hairy, long nosed creature come into the room.It had a knife & was going to kill me. He hid under the covers & told it to go away, & it did. He drew a picture of it, but I don't know where it is anymore. About 20 yrs later, I saw a music video- Metallica "until it sleeps". I laughed to myself, thinking "holy crap look at that!". There's this funny looking creature in the video that looks a lot like his description.

4) Me & my step brother were riding our bikes around at night- we saw what looked like a figure made of light.It was difficult to look at for some reason. In the back of my mind I was thinking of riding into the field to it, but I was too afraid.


Just thought you might find these interesting

I really want to get Monroe's book but it's not like I can just ask my parents to get it for me because they'll think I'm crazy. I need to figure out another way to get the book. I guess if I can't find any other way to get the book I'll have to ask my dad to bring me to get it because he believes in this kind of stuff (and he's interested in it) a little more than my mom.

Thanks for the help btw.

11. When you are seeing/on a planet when you are in an OBE are you on the actual planet or is it just something that you mind makes up?

12. When you are new to OBEs is it hard to stay in them (are you pulled back into your body often?)? If it is does it get easier to stay in them if you practice more?

13. When you start inducing OBEs do you start having them naturally (waking up out of your body even though you didn't induce an OBE)?

11. depends on the individual experience, I'm thinking that practicing remote viewing would help, but sometimes you just "know that you know" it's real. Some would call it "absolute knowledge" or a pure kind of knowing.

12. Yes, & yes.

13. Yes. I think of them as "aftershocks"- once I attained the vibrations conciously, things just kinda start to happen on there own sometimes.

I haven't done this in a long time, but I've had several deep space projections- the problem is navigation. It's very, very easy to get totally hopelessly lost- I've had to end several deep space projections because of this- I'd exit my body so fast that before I knew what I was doing, I'd have blasted myself right out of the galaxy. Once when I did this, I just kinda floated there, feeling the mindboggling distance all around me. I saw a faint blur of a galaxy or star cluster in one direction, so I projected in that direction, but then I lost my concentration & it ended.

The striking thing is the particular feeling of being surrounded by light years of distance all around you- it's a very strong feeling that, once you experience once, you can access again to take you there.

Several other times, when I didn't use the "instant travel" method, & just used as high speed as I could attain (not sure how fast, but I was beyond the cloud layer, & out of the atmosphere within about 5 seconds), I found the experience to be much more stable, but despite the speed I was travelling, the distances were just too great.

Haven't practiced any of this stuff in al ong time though- more "practical" concerns these days I guess.I will do it again though.