Messages

quote:Originally posted by Mobius

Yes, good topic Cainam, thanks for starting it & for the reading I've done because of it.

Others like the freemasons are supposed to have beliefs about the Pleidians, the Rosicurian order if I remember right, had something similar. Many other little cults & sects believe in some sort of connection with Pleides, Sirius & Orion,

I'd love to know the references on that one!  []  As you might guess I'm a Mason and while I'm only blue lodge I do a lot of reading about the Craft in general.  I've seen nothing about beliefs in Sirius, Orion, or the Pleides.  The only connection is one Masonic author (Pike) who mentions Sirius, however his work was also rather genius and spotty at the same time. He covered a LOT of material in his "Morals and Dogma" of the Scottish Rite but much of it has very little to do with that branch of Freemasonry itself.

[I believe what I know.]

DjM
I've actually read quite a bit on Atlantis, and I've read also some of what you were talking about, the problem is that the more outree stuff was channelled and I have a hard time taking that seriously.

I do believe that there are others out there, but there have been so many fakes over the years that I've very little tolerance for it, since I don't experience it myself.

quote:Originally posted by DjM

David-

I believe what I know.  Of course you don't believe in Atlantis!  What do you know about it?  How are you able to connect what went on in that society to you current being and humanity as a whole?  You didn't know about the things you were taught in Freemasonry, either.  Now, your beliefs have changed- right?

Nice reply!  I wouldn't consider myself a materialist. I know there is more to this world than what the 5 sense allow, but I just haven't found how to pursue it other than in matters of faith.  I was on another board and the users there were DEVOUT believers in certain aspects of Wilhelm Reich.  The only problem they had was when you questioned their methodology and asked for evidence.  Of course they also had decided I must be evil or clueless or both due to being a Mason.

BTW... There is strictly speaking "masonic" Bible.  The bible that is most often used is the King James version because of the beauty of its phrasing.  I would be very interested if you might know otherwise.  

I am reading this board to learn, but sometimes I just don't see as others seem to.  

quote:Originally posted by DjM

David,

On the matter of physical, etheric, astral, and i/ego...

Any materialist would claim that what cannot be acquired with the 5 senses (touch, site, taste, sound, smell) does not exist.  Herein lies the problem with today's world.  More specifically, this is why we have shut ourselves out from the Spiritual World which our anscestors had access to.

This is a fragment for all you materialists out there who have to see it to believe it.  Modern science is just now discovering what many of us have known for years.  We're simply ahead of the rest of you.  The details are up to you...

All the best!

Ok, I've a question for you then.  Would you consider Freemasonry a type of spiritual teaching? or merely a fraternity?

Originally posted by DjM


Let's deal with the Spiritual facts!  There is no shame in not knowing something, but there is in not finding out...most Masons don't have a clue what the hect an Etheric body is.
(/quote]

[You must bring what you teach to the intellect.]

Ok, Interesting... that is unless you don't believe in a literal Atlantis.  I agree with what you say about Intellect, to an extent, but the rites of Freemasonry in some way correspond to some of the ancient mysteries.  They try to reach the intellect but by way of the emotions.  The Lodgeroom is not a classroom, but the candidate/brother is faced with certain ceremonies and symbols and these, if he takes the time to consider or speculate upon them might be used to make changes to his life.

I would go one step further with your last statement.  While ALL masons are required to believe in a life after this one, so a soul of some sort is a typical assumption, there is NO requirement for acknowledging that that soul has a particular nature.  So, I, for example don't even believe in most of what is said about the various bodies, etheric, astral, and so on.  I've read some Alice Baily, and Blavatsky and find it unecessarily complex for my understanding.

quote:Originally posted by DjM

The Masons work with the sign, grip, and word.  Since the 14th century, the realities of these gestures could no longer be brought to people.  The process of communicating by gestures, originated from the 4th Post-Atlantean epoch and continued into the 5th by means of the brotherhoods.  
...................
This requires that one teach by intellect, what can be understood by the intellect.  You must bring what you teach to the intellect.  This is not done in the occult brotherhoods.  People enter the first grade in these occult brotherhoods without being prepared with spiritual science or any other occultism.  Sign, grip, word, and many other things are transmitted to them.  In this way, they can be worked on unconsciously.

When you can work on the etheric body in such a way that a person does not understand what is going on, you can eliminate those forces that would otherwise be present in a person's understanding.  
................................
Let's deal with the Spiritual facts!  There is no shame in not knowing something, but there is in not finding out...most Masons don't have a clue what the hect an Etheric body is.

We refer to God as The Great Architect of the Universe because he designed and built it.  This goes back to a few Bible references to God as a builder and literally John Calvin who used the precise phrase.  Math and Geometry are interesting because they are the tools with which we describe the world.  Freemasonry came about during the enlightenment and there was a great desire in describing the world (and even its God) in rational terms.  The website that you link to is very interesting but personally, I don't think it has much to do with the actual, physical Temple built by Solomon.  You have to look and see what the Temple as an analogy may teach, and that can take a long while.

Most Masons don't go into this sort of thing because we have a lot of other things to do in our lives and THAT speculation could eat up a lot of it [] .  Also, we don't (at least in the US) REQUIRE much philosophical knowledge to go through the degrees.  We never have.  The tools are given and its up to the workman to use them and learn what he may.  Also, a major focus of the Craft is the Brethren, individual improvement is very important but our relationship with our Brethren is important as well.  Just as with Operative workmen, you don't necessarily have to be the best stonecutter to manage workmen, so to you don't have to be a philosopher to rise in office in the Lodge.  In fact, sometimes it can be a hindrance.  This doesn't mean you don't have to be intelligent, but when working with a group, it doesn't always mean much to have a certain philosophical bent, particularly when your brothers don't have to have one.

Personally, I look on the Temple of Solomon and the work done on it in the form of an analogy, to the development of a person.  I haven't completely developed my ideas yet but they are getting there, perhaps I'll have a better idea in a couple of decades []

quote:Originally posted by timeless


The Masons believe God is an Architect which is why there are so many architecture tools in their symbols.  The Masons held a lot of masonry and architecture knowledge that was a very valuable knowledge back in the old days.  Math, geometry are also of great interest to the Masons since these are also needed to be a good architect.  Based on the layout of King Solomon's Temple they were truly amazing architects.  I think that is what I am most amazed about with the Temple. Also that it was suppose to be a house of prayer for everyone (of all religions). This website goes over some of the symbolism held in geometry etc.  My husband told me he was not much interested in this stuff so I guess many can pass up the ranks of the lodge not getting in to this stuff so I have no way to confirm the validity of the material at this website.  Perhaps David can comment.

Oh! The G in the symbol means In God We Trust so that is no big secret.

In my years in the Craft I've read several books ABOUT Masons that said that we believed in the importance of Sirius in our rituals.  The only problem is that NONE of them were written by Masons, and I've never heard anything direct or indirect about Sirius in Lodge.

quote:Originally posted by Mobius


Fairly interesting concepts & from what I remember don't the Freemasons have some sort of belief in Sirius or something?

Well, Masons and Co-Masons aren't really secret societies.  We have secrets that we don't tell the general public thats all.  

quote:Originally posted by Celeste

Thanks all for kindly sharing your perspective.
Hello yoki
...I don't recall grandma having a tee-shirt that said "Hi! I belong to a Secret Society...ask me anything!?" Just joking! Thanks for your input.
Celeste

Cool. I've met only one other woman who was in a Masonic Organization and she was in the Rite of Memphis Misraim.  While I wouldn't officially be able to sit in lodge with either her or you, I do appreciate the organizations and greet a fellow worker on the path!

There is a book out called "Triumph of the Moon" in which the author tries to pin down the development of thought that led to the modern neo-pagan movement.  He leads one branch of thought to Freemasons (for certain elements of ritual) and another to theosophists for other philosophy.  

quote:Originally posted by yoki_h

As it  happens just before Christmas I was initiated into the very organization you were asking about ,you could call it a family thing although its taken me 50 years to take this step.
The Co Masons or Eastern star is affiliated  to the Theosophical society ,although  they are sperate  identifies they walk hand in hand .These are the people who were the forerunners to new age thinking and even Wicca's modem day founder was said to have based rites on their ceremonies.
There is nothing evil nor is there any conspiracy to take over the world ,in fact there is a obligation to aide mankind ,a old fashion sentiment but beautiful .
I have yet to come across a   inverted star but that's not to say its not used. A symbol is just that often they get bastardised .Take a swastika in Victorian days it was a  symbol of good luck , post war its a abomination .The currant  usage for  the invert star is that it represented the devil ,it may well have other explanations .
Hope this helps  Yoki
P.S This organization is open to  males and females

Dear Timeless;

My best to you and your husband!  Some say the Knights Templar (the name derives from "Knights of the Temple of Solomon")have those secrets however in my studies I haven't found any of that.  There are a lot of great romantic legends, but when you just start digging a little you don't come up with much of anything.  Some say that the wealth the order accumulated was due to certain secrets they discovered under the temple mount.  My own opinion is that their wealth had more to do with efficient business practices rather than any occult influence.  St. Bernard of Clairvaux was most influential in the formation of their order and their "Rule" (the rules they lived by as a community) was based on those of his monastic order.  That order also accumulated MUCH wealth but it was by business practices that were superior to many of those around them.

quote:Originally posted by timeless


The Knights of Templar were the keepers of the ancient knowledges that predate the Jewish religion, Christianity and the rest.  They were the keepers of the secrets of King Solomon's Temple for example.  

Shawn
Some lodges have more wealthy brethren than others, because their membership fees are higher, and some seem to only accept members who are professionals, but in most lodges I think you'll find a pretty wide mix of social stratta.  I'm curious about the first part of your question here.  
I think of myself as a pretty knowledgeable man and Mason and if you can just put forward a clear question I'll do my best to answer it.

for REAL information about the Masons you might try checking out almost any Grand Lodge Website.  The URL for the Grand Lodge of NY is
http://www.nymasons.org

quote:Originally posted by Shawn McCaffrey

Could you go into more detail about the lodge. Like what they did or were told they were doing and were about?  And were they mostly "rich" people? I would think so.  If my source is correct.

And im sorry that the question marks are there so much, i'll see if i can get that to fix and re-post it. Thanks

Hi there! I'm new here but I was referred by Inguma.  I'm a Mason and have no problem answering MOST of your questions.  Its difficult to say what branch our teachings come from.  The basic idea is that good men can become better through fraternity, that is treating each other as brothers.  My opinion, is that if you set yourself to doing that on a small scale (with fellow Masons) you will most likely continue the behavior on a larger scale.  We have meetings of two basic types, one is a business meeting almost like any other club, and the other is to make or advance a brother.  The three basic degrees of Freemasonry are sort of like plays where the candidate/new brother is a part of which teach certain moral truths.

I have yet to find anything "satanic" or immoral about our teachings. Some fundamentalists don't like us because while we DO REQUIRE a man to believe in Diety or he cannot become a Mason, we don't TELL then what sort of Diety they are to believe it.  In this was any man who believes in a Creator and a life after this one, may join.  We have brothers who are of every race or color.

Regarding the Templars;  It is thought by some that the Templars, when they were broken up and hounded fled to Scotland, where they found some small organizations (lodges) of operative masons (stone cutters) who had certain simple ceremonies where others might join and the secrets of their craft might be preserved and men might also live a good Christian life.  In this was the underground Templars might keep their brotherhood but by another name.  There is no proof to this theory but a certain amount of circumstantial evidence.

The Order of the Eastern Star is primarily a fraternity for women whose husbands, fathers, or brothers are Masons.  Men who are Masons can also join.  
In some areas their star is shown as right side up, and in others upside down.  When the latter, it is because it is pointing to the place where the star came to rest and pointed out the birthplace of the Savior.

another person posted "Jack the Ripper was a Mason who went bad. Just like every religion and group there will always be a few bad apples. He would put Masonic symbols on the walls in the blood of his victums....AND....he was murdered in a very ritualistic manner by other members of the lodge. The lodge saught him out and took care of him. "

Actually, from what is known today, Jack was not a Mason and the only evidence of Masonic symbols was a graffiti phrase (I believe it was "the juwes are those who won't be blamed for nothing") on a wall near a murder scene but there was no real evidence that it had been "Jack" who put it there.

I will however admit that the man they tried and FINALLY convicted several years ago for the Church bombing where two children died was a Mason.  Although we try to allow only men of good character there are always others who sometimes get in.

The VERY long post by Shawn McCaffrey was interesting, and while he seems to have considered nearly every aspect of conspiracy theory that includes the Masons, I have to say that I've not found many of those ideas to be correct.  I have researched conspiracy theories for years before I joined, and still do, but from what evidence I've seen there is no proof for any of it.  The easiest to toss out is that the phrase on the dollar bill means "New World Order". It does not.  The phrase "Annuit Coeptis Novus Order Seclorum" means "Here begins A new order of the ages." and refers to the fact that our democracy was opening up a New Age since it was doing without a King, aristocracy by birth, or established state religion.

People worry about us because we have our secrets and are fairly close knit.  Most of our secrets you can find in about a 10 minute search on the internet.  However as a Mason I'm "oathbound" not to reveal them and won't.  IMHO our really important secrets can't even be put into words because they involve how being a brother Mason can change your life if you let it.  Some poeple think that any secrets are evil, however even Jung said that some secrets when shared can be a valuable thing for the human psyche.

I hope I've answered some questions, and if you've any others I'll check back.  This seems like a pretty decent place.

quote:Originally posted by Celeste

 
 Can anyone tell me about the Mason's and what branch of teachings they are from & what their practises are?

I've heard they were supposed to have been linked to the Knights of Templar but...? Does anyone know first hand information?  

The Eastern Star is a lodge for the for the women to join & one of their symbols atleast, is and inverted star (pentagram)This doesn't seem to be a good idea to me. What's up with that?