Messages

p.s. I see the same discussion on another forum .
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=61426

Yes, I obviously posted there too in the hopes of getting some answers..

Interesting, Volgerie, you're probably right, thanks for the info.

I've been trying for a long time to find out what dreams really are and how they differ from Astral Projection, and it's very difficult to settle for an answer when most people give various different answers. For example, I don't know if you've heard of Erin Pavlina, she's a medium who's had lucid dreams and astral projections for years/decades (erinpavlina.com if you want to check it out) and this is how she describes the difference between LD and AP:

Comparison

Let's compare lucid dreaming and astral projection so that you'll see how distinctly separate these two experiences are.

In lucid dreaming:

You are asleep
Your experience is a dream
Your location is whereever you wish it to be (desert, ocean, future, past, mom's house, etc.)
Your consciousness is still inside your body
You can control the environment and characters
When the experience is over, you simply wake up

In astral projection:

You awaken, then you project
Your experience is real
Your experience begins in your bedroom, or wherever your body is
Your consciousness is outside of your body, and your body is left with none
You can manipulate your environment in the astral realm (somewhat), but you cannot control the actions of the inhabitants of the astral plane.
When the experience is over, you return to your body and merge your consciousness back into it

I've been browsing AP sites for a long time and read a lot of contradictory information to what Erin says.
For example

In lucid dreaming: Your consciousness is still inside your body
In astral projection: Your consciousness is outside of your body, and your body is left with none

Doesn't our consciousness leave the body to the astral every time we sleep? I've heard that on virtually every AP site. AP is natural and it happens every night during sleep. How can you "simply wake up" as opposed to get back to your body if you've actually been away the whole time you were sleeping? And the "your experience is just a dream vs your experience is real" thing, what does that mean?

Sorry for many questions, but I'm baffled how someone who's had so much experience with both dreams and the astral like her can say such things, if she is wrong, but the info she gives is so contradictory even to things on this site. I'm aware that everyone has a different experience in the nonphysical planes, but shouldn't there be an objective truth to what dreams actually are? Honestly, I would love to AP and if lucid dreams are no different, then it would be great, but what I would hate is for dreams to be "only in your head" while AP is "the real thing" as Erin seems to say. Is that true or is she plain wrong? Is there any other difference between LD and AP besides the fact that in LD you gain awareness while you're "out of body" and in AP you maintain your awareness while you're getting out of body?

Yes, but the problem is: they are a tiny tiny tiny minority. Not even noticable in the vast pool of all those self-professed 'atheists' about whom one can certainly state that the words 'materialist' or 'reductionist' (partially even the term 'humanist') are almost perfect synonyms. (Do the test yourself and visit any 'atheist forum'   )

They might be a tiny minority, but that doesn't mean there is no difference between an atheist and a spiritual atheist, there is quite a big one. I wouldn't visit an atheist forum, nowadays, at least from my experience, most atheists are actually anti-theists obsessed with science and bent on ridiculing each and every thing that is remotely spiritual in some way. They call religious folks closed minded when they themselves seem to be incredibly closed minded to anything that cannot be "proven" by science.

[who does not believe in any god.]

Being an atheist does not mean you believe in nothing after death.. No offense, but you should learn what an atheist is before you use the term. An atheist is someone who does not believe in any god. That is all. Also, just because one doesn't believe in God, it doesn't mean he/she rejects each and every aspect of spirituality. There are people called spiritual atheists who do not believe in a creator yet are well aware of the spirit world.