Messages

Monroe claimed to see doors and windows to other dimensions and such, I've never personally seen them.  You can visit the other planes - that's definitely deep and profound, not to mention spiritually elevating.  I find raising up the vibes and then adjusting my perception transports me.  I realize that's not a very good description of the process.  I'm going to have to think longer about how to describe how it's done.  It's definitely something you should try.

[not]

Is it the observer at the threshold, hypnagogic imagery, or an actual spirit?

Work on building trust with the creative power of the universe.  If you trust it to take care of you, regardless of what you see or hear when you're trying to project, you won't be afraid.  At the same time, if you're not afraid to begin with things that would be potentially frightening don't tend to happen - whether that's due to your perception is a valid question.

Work on building this trust when you're not trying to project, IMO.  The creative power has endowed you with all the strength and power you need for every experience you may have, but it doesn't hurt to kind of let loosen up on the reins now and again.  You may find you have more control with a looser grip, and only pull tight when you want to change direction - just like riding a horse.

K thx for your posts.

Let me ask you all something though, how else can a person prove these are real than by reporting back with information that could not have been known by the usual senses? does anyone else have a better idea of validating these are real? so many people here are just getting carried away with the experiences and how lovely they are and just missing that its all in the mind. The problem here is I think you guys are wanting these to be real too bad.

Someone also mentioned that when you try and validate anything in the physical when OBE, you see things that fluctuate such as numbers will change on a numbercard etc. This may be true but in all the history of people trying to validate these experiences properly and scientifically you would think just 1 person would had been able to get 1 or a few right despite this possible problem. I mean OBE research is nothing new.

Now this is all i'm asking.....with respect ....someone PLEASE give me a link to A successful documented controlled scientific OBE validation experiment. Then i'll leave in peace.

We lack sufficiently sensitive instruments at this time to validate an OBE, other than the testimonial evidence of "I saw X" with X being something they could not have seen or known about from their physical vantage point.

I don't know about fluctuating numbers  - the problem in my experience is that you can't see well.  You don't have "EYES" so something written is a bad choice.

For your answers, in addition to the Monroe Tests that have been mentioned, you should read these:

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/research11.html

http://aleroy.com/FAQz28.htm

http://www.psywww.com/asc/obe/missz.html

http://library.thinkquest.org/C0120993/obefull.html

unless you'd just like to stir the pot.  Actually proper scientific astral projection/OBE research has basically not been done, because it carries the taboo of parapsychology in the academic community.  There have been like two, maybe three studies total, and the results favor the believers.  They've then been discounted because the academic leading the study had an open mind about the subject.

MUCH more has been done on NDEs.  I've given you links to both - so enlighten thyself.


A question for you regarding this statement:

so many people here are just getting carried away with the experiences and how lovely they are and just missing that its all in the mind.

Why would that bother you?
Happy Times

I can think of a couple of things that might help.  First off, it's better to be in the position of allowing your consciousness to detach from your physical form.  Understand that your consciousness is infinite, and doesn't need the physical body - the physical body requires consciousness.  From that frame of mind it's easier to project.

You can say to yourself: "I am part of the infinite consciousness detached and apart from the physical world" and kind of feel yourself (your inner being) floating up away from your body.  This way you can gain a better understanding of the shape and nature of consciousness (the part of you that projects).

Personally I could not focus on my third eye while trying to project, the stream of information is too strong.  I'd wind up taking notes or something.

You can't not think - you have to let your thoughts pass.  Your mind is always thinking.  If your mind didn't think at all, you wouldn't exist.  I'd focus on consciousness alone and it's detachment from the physical.

That said, remember to give up your worldly concerns to Shakti (or whatever name you like to give to the creative intelligence of the universe). Basically let the god force deal with your mundane stuff while you focus on the moment.  Consciously doing this may help your mind be more calm.

Breathing - how do you breathe?  Inhale slowly, hold, exhale slowly - repeat.  Then once you get deeply relaxed you just slowly inhale and exhale in the rhythm you've created.

There are many methods of actually projecting, rope method - blowing your consciousness out, rolling your consciousness over, etc.  You can find a bunch of people's techniques here: http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_permanent_astral_topics/technique_central-t19294.0.html.

Most of all, relax, take your time and let it happen.  It's not something you can force.  Good luck.

The idea that the energy body is the same thing as the soul is a preconceived notion.  How do you define 'soul', and how do you explain bilocation in the OBE state?

I define 'soul' as consciousness, and consciousness is what travels in OBEs, IMO.  To bi-locate you coalesce your energy into human-intelligible form at the secondary location by will/the power of consciousness.  You consciously create the secondary form, it doesn't just happen.  You can be in the RTZ without people seeing you, and you can let people see you.  The latter is more difficult.

I think this energy body is something used to simplify the idea of pure consciousness floating about, IOW there is no "energy body" unless consciousness creates it.  It's a concept that helps people detach.  We follow different schools of thought I guess.

Lies also happen all the time. They are very,very commonplace. Not to mock you, just making a point.

Also, people on this forum tend to dislike skeptics. Buy you must be delusional not to be a skeptic. Even if you have had validating experiences you should still be skeptical.
Pce

Actually, I agree with you.  I really think as soon as you have enough experience to feel comfortable with what's happening you should get a friend to place a random object for you in an agreed upon place in order to get validation.    If you don't get validation you don't know if you're just having a semi-waking dream.

There is nothing wrong with healthy skepticism, but it struck me that SkepticBoy was being a bit of a bully.  From what I've seen many, if not most, people here don't have much experience with actually being able to project, if they've been able to do it at all.

Now, I will admit that the validations you do get could be your mind tapping into the mind of the person placing the object, or some other sort of sixth sense at play.  If that's the case, I think that's pretty interesting, but once you've done it you can't deny there's something unusual going on.

I still believe a playing card is a horrible choice, use an object, and even then I don't think you can prove it to a person on an Internet forum.  It's yourself you should be proving it to.

[really bad]

A playing card is a really bad choice for a validation.  Most projectors have varying degrees of astral blindness.  You would want something much more solid, a vase, a sneaker, or go out somewhere and see something happening in the real-time zone that you wouldn't have known was going on without being there.

Validations are easy to get, but you can't prove them to a person on an Internet forum, you need a friend to help you out and place something in a predefined spot for you.

Validations would prove it isn't an hallucination wouldn't it  and seeing as they never seem to happen one can only conclude its all still in the mind

Validations happen all the time.  It's very, very commonplace.

It automatically/accidentally used to happen to me when I was a little kid (weak heart), so I needed to get control of it.

Maybe you just had a telepathic moment - you tuned into your friend's experience.  I don't think astral abduction is possible, no one can steal your soul.

I have mine here, with related stuff.  I don't write them all down, though.

http://ghost-mountain.blogspot.com/

[let go of that fist]

Float.  Meditate, let go of the body and the world until you're consciousness only, then float.  You're consciousness is not restricted to the physical self, but it tends to cling to it like a clenched fist, you just need to let go of that fist    I'd try floating, getting slightly farther and farther away until you can turn around and look at yourself.

My name Sylvie.  I've been projecting since I was a small child, accidentally then/on purpose now.  Figured I might as well join after lurking for a while. I have a blog with some techniques, experiences, binaural beats, and such, hoping to eventually make it a resource for AP and other altered states.
http://ghost-mountain.blogspot.com/