Messages

MisterJingo:
Thanks for the recommendation. I ended up buying a different book by the same author (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1569752753/002-0029952-3056054) and so far I really like it.

I started reading the material on those links, and the information is surprisingly similar to Frank's posts. There is even an "exercises" page that deal with Noticing: http://www.eliasforum.org/exercises.html.

Telos:
That would be pretty funny, especially considering all the people who would label Frank a fraud for copying Elias.

I think Monroe talked about this in his books... his INSPEC was actually a future version of himself helping out his present self. That's the way I remember it, anyway.

Hey, do Frank and Elias know each other?

Or, do Frank and Elias' "scribe" know each other?

I would imagine that the answer is no, considering the scribe appears to have died in 2001.

Great find, by the way.

I was part of the Virtual Classroom and the email Knightlight posted is authentic.

I don't want to stir the pot any more than it is, just wanted to let you know the email is accurate.

Having said that, I still think Frank is/was authentic. He took the time to answer my questions, both public and PM, and I am very thankful for that.

Either he is recovering somewhere away from computers or he has switched his primary focus (as he would say). I have moved on and have been trying to go at it alone with the info Frank has left. It is slow going, but it is better than nothing.

People on the Virtual Classroom list got an email from Frank last night. He was out of commission for a while but it appears he will be back shortly. I imagine that means he will have time to visit this forum again, but he didn't specifically say that.

I believe that anyone can use cafepress.com to make a shirt with any design/words that they want. If you guys want a neat shirt, just make it via the cafepress.com website.

I have a curious feeling that Frank will be back sooner rather than later...

I actually have both of his "Lucid Dreaming" books. The newer one is shorter and seems more New Agey and doesn't get too much into the scientific aspects. It was also a pretty quick read - I finished it a while back. What I am reading now is the book he wrote before "Exploring..." and is more of what I wanted. I have a Computer Science degree so I prefer things with a scientific slant rather than a New Age one.

Thanks for sharing this MT. I am not done reading it yet but I do appreciate you taking the time to post it.

Thanks for the info Telos. I am reading LaBerge's "Lucid Dreaming" right now thanks to your mentioning of it in the book review section. I read most of "Exploring The World of Lucid Dreaming" a while back and was interested in how his first book differed.

Yes, that's it.

Robert Bruce has his own forums (at astraldynamics.com), so you may also want to go there and ask this question.

FYI, there is also a book called "Mastering Astral Projection" by Robert Bruce and Brian Mercer that goes through and sets out a schedule for the exercises found in AD.

If you have the extra cash it may be worth it for you.

MT:
I ended up ordering the two Seth books. Hopefully I will enjoy them and maybe post a review in the book section.

I have read all 3 Monroe books and I will vouch for them, as well. The last 2 (which are the ones that Frank mentioned) are different from the first and are more phasing oriented. This should help give you a good foundation for terminology and such.

I have never read any Seth books, mainly because I am do not like the whole channeling idea (seems ripe for frauds). Has anybody else read the 2 Seth books that Frank mentioned?

I think something that would help immensely is to keep a dream journal. I am just a beginner as well, but it sure does help a lot.

Frank:
I just sent you a PM titled "Finding Monroe" that has a question to ask him. It is some information that isn't widely known that I learned while I was at TMI. If you want to go about verifying whether or not you are speaking to Monroe, ask him that question and PM me back his answer and we will see if it is right.

It is a characteristic of dreaming that we typically do not offer ourselves an objective knowing of this action.

Your post helped explain a few things. If you don't mind, I am going to ask a few question in order for me to solidify my understanding of what you are saying.

I guess what you are calling "objective-knowing" some people call self-reflection, would you agree? In a dream we aren't self-reflective and we just go with the flow. When a dream becomes lucid, that self-reflection is there (to an extent) and we are able to make decisions instead of just "going with the flow."

Now, you said in a previous post about Monroe and F4oC that you didn't know if Monroe was trying to give himself an objective knowing of F4oC and that is when he almost died. I couldn't find the post, so hopefully you remember that thread. Does this mean that we aren't able have an objective knowing of F4oC, that any phasing to F4oC would be have a "go with the flow" quality to it that we typically experience in dreams?

If this is the case, does that mean we are only able to have an objective knowing of F1oC, F2oC, and F3oC. Maybe that explains what you meant when you said that F4oC is the first step into a purely subjective area.

And the last question unrelated to my previous questions would be - what is the deal with dreamless sleep and how does that fit into the Phasing Model?

I have been faithfully trying to phase every morning since the end of May. I have been having a dry spell recently - no lucid dreams and just a few MABA experiences. I think the problem is in my rundown, since I always either drift off as I try to create a scene or I try too hard and my eyes and other muscles become tense.

This morning I tried passively trying to stay conscious and get my body to fall asleep, and I got to the semi-familiar point where things that I imagine "stick" a little longer and start to evolve without my full attention. For example, there was one instance where I perceived that I had a ball in my hand and I was throwing it off of a wall and it was coming back to me. It started to take on a life of its own and then I thought "am I doing it?" and I snapped back.

When I am having experiences like the one above, the scene is more of a "perception" rather than me seeing anything in detail (like a lucid dream). It's almost like it is a "shadow" area since I don't actually see anything but I know things are going on.

I know there is a FAQ about not being able to see when APing, but this is a little different because I am in a half-way state where I am not fully awake, but not fully dreaming, either.

I think I may ditch the rundown and focus on some established WILD induction techniques, since I believe Frank said that what we are trying to do is create a highly lucid dream experience (to get into F2oC) anyway. I figure from there I could try the phasing to F3oC and, if it is a WILD, I should have my full wits about me to not fall into an unconscious dream.

Not sure if you will be the same but I tend to see textures just before the 3D Blackness (Fz) state.

Recently, when I have been trying to do a rundown and then switch back to looking at the back of my eyelids, I will see some textures that look like fingerprints as the backdrop to the blackness. Is this the same thing? If so, what should I do to bring on the 3D Blackness?

I was also wondering about the whole Focus 5 thing myself.

I figured that Focus 4 was where the few people who have had true non-dual "enlightenment" experiences were at, but this whole Focus 5 nonsense throws that out of the window.

I guess I shouldn't worry about it too much, as I am still trying to make it to Focus 2 reliably.

I agree, MT. As far as I know, the worst that could happen is that you will pass out and your body will go back to regulating your breathing without your conscious interference.

Taken from http://www.newconnexion.net/article/05-04/lerner.html

It would appear that these states are universal. An article about The Monroe Institute Programs published in The Wall Street Journal in 1994 noted: "One Gateway (residential program) alumnus and fan is Kai Sui Fung, the 91-year old head of the Zen Buddhist temple in Vancouver British Columbia. He believes that (Monroe Institute) Gateway students can reach meditation states in a week that took him years of sitting. His temple now uses audiotapes from the Monroe Institute as a training tool."

I have not been able to find any further information on this person or his temple, but this was back when I was more into Zen. I do see some parallels with the Phasing model and some of the Zen literature, but others I do not. Some of the things Frank has said recently about Focus 4 (about the feeling of having your body disintegrating and such) sound very much like what these people talk about what the enlightenment "experience" is.

I remember reading in some mystic literature about people warning against astral projecting because is was just a distraction and does not help towards the goal of enlightenment. The phasing model makes sense in that respect, because F2oC is supposed to be an area of your own mind and imagination, and also the area of astral projection.

I am glad someone has taken the time and gone through this slowly and scientifically, while also making the information on how to reproduce these states widely available. I have been practicing every morning, so hopefully within a year I will have first-hand knowledge of Focus 4 and be able to draw my own conclusions as to what this whole mess is about. I hope I didn't stray too far off the original topic, but I figured I would throw in my opinion.

So if I were able to transition into Focus 3 awareness, would I have access to the RTZ as if I were "out-of-body"? Is that how to get there Frank?

As far as I understand, the RTZ is F1oC. If you got to F3oC, you would probably have more interesting things to do other than fly around the RTZ. F3oC is the transition area, where you are able to meet people who have died and possibly bring back verifiable evidence. This is my understanding of the area, anyways.

As for getting to the RTZ, I imagine you could get there easier from F2oC, since that is what I am currently doing in my attemps to go the "other" way and hit F3oC.

tryingOBE:

It appears to me that you were having an F2oC experience. F2oC is also where we do our dreaming (according to the model) and, as such, it would probably feel similar to a dream if you were in F2oC.

If you were aware the whole time then your experience could be likened to a WILD (Wake Induced Lucid Dream), where you enter the dream world without falling unconscious.

I had a few experiences this morning and I was amazed at the dreamlike quality that I felt after I awakened, so I think I know where you are coming from.

As for moving on to F3oC (something I am still attempting myself), have a look at the first page of this thread: http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18538.