I am fairly new to the idea of OBE and i have yet to do any psychedelics/entheogens (an entheogen is something that causes one to have a spiritual experience. all psychedelics are entheogens) but i have done quite a bit of research on boht subjects as well as shamanism.
First off in response to:
You are on a website pertaining to Astral Projection which is completely subjective, yet you say that an experience on a drug doesn't qualify as a genuine experience? That makes absolutely no sense. What makes the experience someone has while on an entheogen any less real than Astral Projection. Both are subjective experiences.
Right before coming to this thread i read about Frank's idea of "phasing" and i think that his idea and the ideas put forth by many "psychonauts" fit together very well. The idea that the astral is merely a shift in ones awareness, and that one can shift awareness into different focuses coincides with the idea of an "altered state of mind" cause by entheogens.
It then makes sense that the entheogens dont actually cause the "trip" but that they cause the mind to shift it awareness to a higher level.
One of the most interesting entheogens is DMT. DMT is a chemical that is found in every living thing. DMT is also argueably the most powerful entheogen known to man. In humans it is produced in the pineal gland. Scientists believe that DMT is responsible for the phenomenon known as a NDE (near death experience) as it is released into the brain when the body under goes extreme shock. I find that very interesting as i later started reading about Astral Projection and how many believe that a NDE is actually a forced OBE. DMT is naturally released in the brain during death. In my reading of astral projection it seems that death is a final projection of one out of the body, but for good. Could DMT be used to cause such a projection? i.e. death.
It seems that with what i have learned that this very well could be the case.
I have read many trip reports of people that have used DMT as an entheogen and they seem very similiar to many trip reports of astral projectors.
Terrence Mckenna is one of the world's most foremost Psychonauts. His description of a DMT trip sounds very similiar to astral travel and it seems that he came in contact with astral beings or other conscious beings.
Audio of his experience can be found here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc01EPmnHSQ
DMT and Salvia which are both considered the most powerful hallucinogens known to man, are both short acting and extremely intense and both cause CEVs (closed eye visuals). After i read Frank's idea of phasing and how that one closes one's eyes and and focuses on noticing and turning ones awareness into one's self, it would seem that hallucinogens such as DMT and Salvia could possibly cause one to raise one inner awareness. I have actually had CEVs from smoking marijuana, which apparently doesn't happen to a lot of people.
Also i talked to someone recently about their experience with salvia and he said that the entire time he was attempting to re-enter his body. So it seems to have induced an OBE.
And on the matter that taking entheogens could hinder your ability to project and induce OBEs i think this is highly false, as many shamans use entheogens and also talk about projecting.
First off in response to:
Quote from: Selski on April 29, 2005, 05:39:00
Personally, I find that if someone has had an experience whilst on a particular drug, I don't qualify it as a "genuine" experience.
I mean, if you chomp away on a handful of mushrooms, and then start seeing things and so on, wouldn't you always think to yourself "well, hey, that was some experience, but it was the mushrooms - it wasn't really me." And you could end up relying on mushrooms, which is pretty grim, cause they taste horrible (so I've been told...)
I believe drugs totally invalidates an experience. That's my opinion anyway.
Sarah
You are on a website pertaining to Astral Projection which is completely subjective, yet you say that an experience on a drug doesn't qualify as a genuine experience? That makes absolutely no sense. What makes the experience someone has while on an entheogen any less real than Astral Projection. Both are subjective experiences.
Right before coming to this thread i read about Frank's idea of "phasing" and i think that his idea and the ideas put forth by many "psychonauts" fit together very well. The idea that the astral is merely a shift in ones awareness, and that one can shift awareness into different focuses coincides with the idea of an "altered state of mind" cause by entheogens.
It then makes sense that the entheogens dont actually cause the "trip" but that they cause the mind to shift it awareness to a higher level.
One of the most interesting entheogens is DMT. DMT is a chemical that is found in every living thing. DMT is also argueably the most powerful entheogen known to man. In humans it is produced in the pineal gland. Scientists believe that DMT is responsible for the phenomenon known as a NDE (near death experience) as it is released into the brain when the body under goes extreme shock. I find that very interesting as i later started reading about Astral Projection and how many believe that a NDE is actually a forced OBE. DMT is naturally released in the brain during death. In my reading of astral projection it seems that death is a final projection of one out of the body, but for good. Could DMT be used to cause such a projection? i.e. death.
It seems that with what i have learned that this very well could be the case.
I have read many trip reports of people that have used DMT as an entheogen and they seem very similiar to many trip reports of astral projectors.
Terrence Mckenna is one of the world's most foremost Psychonauts. His description of a DMT trip sounds very similiar to astral travel and it seems that he came in contact with astral beings or other conscious beings.
Audio of his experience can be found here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc01EPmnHSQ
DMT and Salvia which are both considered the most powerful hallucinogens known to man, are both short acting and extremely intense and both cause CEVs (closed eye visuals). After i read Frank's idea of phasing and how that one closes one's eyes and and focuses on noticing and turning ones awareness into one's self, it would seem that hallucinogens such as DMT and Salvia could possibly cause one to raise one inner awareness. I have actually had CEVs from smoking marijuana, which apparently doesn't happen to a lot of people.
Also i talked to someone recently about their experience with salvia and he said that the entire time he was attempting to re-enter his body. So it seems to have induced an OBE.
And on the matter that taking entheogens could hinder your ability to project and induce OBEs i think this is highly false, as many shamans use entheogens and also talk about projecting.