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Lionheart, thanks for clarifying. I think this is what I was getting at, that phasing is actually a more useful approach for me and to stop telling myself that I need to separate. I don't know if I've ever got as far as moving from a hypnagogic image into something more tangible (for want of a better word) but I think it's doable. Can someone also tell me what's meant by blackness or 3D blackness? I never see pure blackness, there are always spots or areas of something else and it's always moving. Do I need to get to this "blackness" stage before I can go further?

I'd also like to mention an experience that I had several times as a child. I'd be lying in bed at night (after having previously been asleep and then woken up). I knew I was awake because I could hear the sounds my parents were making downstairs. Then the walls of my bedroom would start to oscillate and I could definitely see them moving. It was very subtle at first but I knew that they'd start moving in on me and I'd say to myself "here we go again" and I knew I had to escape before it got worse. I'd lie there for maybe 10 or 15 minutes until I had the courage to move and escape from my bedroom and go and find my mother downstairs. I know this wasn't a dream but maybe it was some sort of hallucination?

Hi again AB and thanks for taking the time to discuss this further. This forum is such a great tool for those of us who are interested in this amazing pursuit and can talk with like-minded souls Interesting what you say about dreams - I have good dream recall and find them fascinating. Have also had lucid dreams a few times - have you? Anyway, sounds like you're well and truly on the right track and hope I'm following not far behind....

Atebits, thanks for your post, most interesting and encouraging. I have indeed experienced some "odd" things that seem to be letting me know that I'm developing spiritually. I do meditate and can fall into a pretty deep trance relatively easily and I see plenty of amazing imagery (a favourite of mine is a kind of swirling vortex that appears after a while and which seems to be sucking me inwards), as well as fleeting images of people and places. I become unaware of my physical body and get right into my head - it's as if I'm dreaming but still awake (I suppose that's mind awake, body asleep). You talk about being able to see through closed eyelids - can you expand on that? I certainly see things but they seem to be behind my eyelids rather than in front. As for vibrations I'm not sure; I get a very intense tingling sensation in my extremities when I start to go into trance but don't really hear anything (I use headphones which would obscure other sounds anyway).

My belief that I'm not APing yet is largely based on the fact that I haven't experienced the sensation of separating from my physical body - an example would be what is described by so many as the archetypal AP experience and being able to fly around the room and observe one's physical body or being able to visit places at will. I must say I don't have an awful lot of interest in doing that anyway as it seems rather limited and I'm more interested in experiencing altered states of consciousness and being open to whatever comes my way. Sounds like you're really progressing and finding this a most fulfilling experience and I can very much relate.

Thanks Lionheart, I've printed this off and will have a good read later. It's interesting that Monroe
changed his model so much from the early stages when he wrote Journeys Out of the Body and that the "separating" from the physical body was replaced by a belief that it was about the relationship between the physical and non-physical. I think this makes more sense to me, I find it nigh on impossible to imagine that somehow my mind will completely separate from my physical body and I think this is why I'm not achieving AP.

What really interests me is how AP practitioners employ so many methods and that they all seem to work.
Has anyone ever researched the various methods and concluded that some are more effective than others? No doubt I'll find something on this site....

Thanks for your post Suzy. Yes I do try to meditate but have trouble clearing my mind a lot of the time so will try and focus on that - perhaps I'm just trying to hard and need to relax. As you say, if it happens it happens but I do believe it's achievable. Phasing sounds rather complicated and I haven't really looked into it. Do you think I should?

I've been attempting to astral project for almost 3 years now, practising almost every night and thinking about it constantly. I'm finally reading Monroe's Journeys Out of the Body and am finding myself enthralled by what he describes. I haven't managed an OBE yet but am hoping it's just a matter of time. Last night I thought I experienced the beginnings of one, I felt as if something was tugging gently at my hands and feet and at one stage felt a distinct pressure at the front of my head, as if part of me was trying to get out. I kept at it but after a couple of hours knew it wasn't going to happen and gave up.

Another thing I always experience is a kind of throbbing sensation in my hands and feet which I never have when I'm fully conscious. Are these vibrations? Am I headed in the right direction? And how long should I be practising for each time I make an attempt - if it's going to happen wouldn't it do so within say an hour of starting? I'm not in any way desperate about being able to project, just hopeful and excited.

Thank you CF and yes, that's where I have the problem. What's the difference between out of body
and astral projection?

I tend to always remember my dreams and have lucid dreams from time to time.
In one recent dream I was flying (I do this regularly) but I was also saying to myself,
I know that if I'm flying I must be having an OBE.

For the past 9 months or so I've meditated every night and get into a deep trance
state but am still not sure whether I've ever exited or not. Just wondering whether this
recent dream experience was an indicator of an OBE?

It must be wonderful to be able to project at will CF. I think I had a lucid dream last night, I remember vividly thinking at one point "this is a dream and I can make anything happen". But now I'm thinking, was I dreaming about having a lucid dream! But after flying in a dream the previous night, it really seems as if things are developing. As you say, it's all about exploration and I'm certainly not trying to force anything and enjoy it all along the way. For me attempting to project is all about looking at the bigger picture and finding meaning in life (and death).

ps sorry not to answer sooner Radman, but I'm old enough to be your mother! But hey, what's age got to do with it!! And how are you getting on?

Thank you CF, I'll certainly try the visual memory exercise. What you say about using the different chakras for projecting is very interesting.  In my case, as an extremely visual person, it makes sense that the third eye is more important for me. I practiced projecting this morning at around 7am rather than just before bed as I normally do. I didn't have an OBE but went on to have the most vivid dream and I can remember every detail.  I was flying in a huge room with people watching me (something I haven't done in a dream for a long time) and that was interesting.

May I ask how long it took you to achieve your first successful projection?

Thanks CF, and for answering so quickly too! Yes, I'd like some examples of the work you recommend.
I haven't heard of 3rd eye projections before, what are they exactly?

I've been attempting an OBE for about 4 months now but don't think I've achieved a full-blown one yet. I fall into a deep trance really quickly, after about 10 minutes and get lots of hypnagogics. I've read a bit about vibrations but am not sure if I'm getting them.

What I do feel is intense tingling in my hands and feet and quite often a tugging feeling in my limbs as if I'm being pulled. And recently I've been feeling a strong sensation of movement, as if I'm on a roller-coaster. I believe that means I might be quite close but I can't seem to do the final bit and get out. I've tried the various methods often mentioned to no avail. I'm not frustrated by this as I find the whole experience immensely enjoyable and really hope that I'll get there in the end; I do it every night for around an hour. 

Whilst I'm in this trance state I definitely go places and see things but it's all very disjointed and mostly fuzzy. The places aren't real places though and I never see my own body or room. I've noticed too that in the last couple of weeks I've been able to remember my dreams every single night. Not had any lucid ones I don't think but the last few have all featured animals. Strange....Anyway, I'd welcome any thoughts and am particularly interested in what you might say CFTraveller as you're a woman around my own age and seem very wise!

I nearly always use music, it gets me into a trance state really quickly. Would recommend
Kelly Howell and Dr Jeffrey Thomspson.

I'd really like to know if anyone else experiences attempts at OBE in a similar way to me; I've been practising for about 3 weeks (no past experience previously) and am getting a lot out of it. But my experiences are more subtle than the various OBEs I've seen described here and elsewhere.

My nightly sessions follow this pattern:

1.     I lie down and go into a meditative state. I use music (Kelly Howells and Jeffrey Thompson are
        favourites) and within 5 minutes I'm completely relaxed and the hypnagogics kick in.
2.     I start feeling the vibrations and intermintent swaying/floating sensations.  It feels as if I have
      a heavy weight on my feet and hands, sometimes there's tugging in my arms and legs.
3.     I may hear a strange popping sound next to my head or something similar.
4.     All the while my eyes are totally asleep and I don't consciously focus on anything; the hypnagogics
      (if that's what they are) shift from being quite abstract (pulsating lights, orbs floating) to being
       more concrete - sometimes I'm travelling through deep space or going through a tunnel of stars.
       Sometimes I see the clouds parting and a light shining through which I can move towards.
       I get glimpses of unearthly buildings and landscapes. But I rarely encounter any "beings", just the
       occasional disembodied face.
5.     And within 10-15 minutes of first lying down, I'd describe myself as being in a state of bliss - I
       envisage the love pouring out of me and feel totally disconnected from my body. I can stay in this 
        state for as long as I want. I'd liken it to having taken some particularly good MDMA (something I
        stopped doing years ago) but plus the visuals.

        But my question is, I haven't experienced the traditional exit where I 
        have a distinct feeling that my astral body is separating from my physical one and I don't float above
        my body and see it. So I'm unclear as to whether I should be determined to try achieving what I
        can only term as a more apparent type of OBE. I consider myself very fortunate to be able to
        achieve the state I describe at will and don't know whether I should just be happy with it and not
        try to project in a more conscious way.  So far it all seems to be happening moreorless at once and
        not in the distinct phases that are so often mentioned. I am doing a lot of research but there's no
        substitute for sharing personal experiences here.

        Any thoughts? 
        Many thanks, threemoons

       

Hey EV, we must be contemporaries - I was 24 in 1982. Don't know how you've managed not to go to the Institute if you're so
close, do you think you'll ever make it? I wish I'd discovered Monroe earlier, maybe my whole life would have turned out different.
But no matter, this "discovery" has given me such a renewed joy in life and a deepening knowledge that death doesn't exist,
that even if I'd been 80 when it came to me it wouldn't have been too late. I wish I could share this with my parents who, as devout Catholics try so hard to believe in eternal life, but I know it would just worry them....Maybe being brought up Catholic opened the door to spirituality for me so I shouldn't denigrate it, but as far as organised religion goes, it has to be one of the most dangerous.

I would love to know (I think I mentioned it earlier), how one continues to give the everyday, earthbound things significance.
It's not that I'm neglecting my work or responsibilities or my friends, it's just settling into a new state of existence which is coherent,
given that I now know so much more.  Luckily my job is routine and I can day-dream but it's hard to stay focused.....
Did you have a sense of the world not being quite the way it seemed as a child? It was that way for me but I just put it down to
having a particularly vivid imagination but now I'm beginning to realise it was more than that

Thanks so much for your immensely helpful tips on 3D blackness; I'll research how I can use it. Everything you say makes sense to me - last night the vibrations in my hands/feet were so intense that it felt las if I had lead weights on them. I also heard a very distinct "pinging" sound next to my head at one stage which I hadn't experienced before.

I hope you have fun too EV and it's good to have met you. Hopefully we can continue to share thoughts and experiences.

Best wishes, threemoons (incidentally I chose that name because I had a vivid dream recently in which I saw three moons lined up - it gave me such a wonderful feeling which stayed with me on waking and for the rest of the day).

Thanks EV, yes very helpful and I really appreciate your time and advice. No wine last night and what a difference it
made; I could actually feel my head and right arm moving when I was in the deep throes of sleep paralysis and wouldn't have been
at all surprised  if my astral body had floated out there and then. But there's no rush.....

Funnily enough I looked at the Monroe Institute website before I read your post and if I was in the U.S. would be booking myself onto a course as soon as. Unfortunately I'm in London and we only have one Munroe accredited practitioner and they're up in Scotland. Might make contact sometime though. Have you been on any courses at the Institute?  Good luck with the "wine thing" - I've always had too much of a fondness for the stuff but I think my new-found interest might be helpful in cutting down. If I fully realise that it's effecting my ability to AP, then it's a no brainer limiting my intake!

All the best to you; it's good to know that there are others out there who have embarked on the same journey and are benefitting
so much. My main challenge at the moment is making sense of the day to day routine but I've certainly found that I'm much calmer and
more positive about everything - even the little niggly things that just served to irritate me before don't seem to matter.

Yes, the work, daily living and stress does affect one's ability doesn't it! Didn't really get anywhere last night because I'd had a helluva day at work and then came home to a child who was under the weather.  I had a nice time just enjoying the hypnagogics for a while but then fell asleep. Also I'd had
a couple of large glasses of wine and I know I don't meditate as well as when I'm stone cold sober.

From what you say EV and the general opinion amongst APers, Robert Munroe seems the best place to start.  Is there one particular book/CD of his which you'd recommend to a beginner? I'm also finding that since I started my bed-time activities (!), I'm falling asleep really quickly after I come back from the hypnagogic state and then having very complex dreams every single night. And then I wake around 5.30am and can't get back to sleep so I'll write in my journal or listen to something ambient on my iPod.

My sleep patterns before I started meditating, tended to be not being able to switch my brain off for ages after going to bed and thinking about all the crap of the day and then falling asleep but maybe waking a couple of times during the night. So at least now the meditation seems to be enabling me to fall asleep when I want to. Trouble is I don't start till around 10.30pm and can easily slip into hypnagogia and stay there for a good two hours so don't get to sleep until 1am. And that's not enough sleep for me so end up feeling knackered at work the next day! So maybe retiring to my room at 9.30pm would be a good idea - it's a good job my boyfriend doesn't live with me right now as pursuing this interest would be impossible. He's interested in learning about it though. I wonder how APers with live-in partners who aren't APers themselves incorporate it into their daily lives; must be difficult!

Thanks for taking the time to give such detailed advice EV. I certainly will start some serious research to help me progress.  May I ask how often you meditate and how often you project successfully? Currently I'm just trying to really enjoy the pre-exit state as you describe it, letting the visuals come and go and relishing the incredible sense of inner peace that goes with it and stays with me afterward.

I'm also interested in how many people find AP a spiritual experience and how many approach it purely as a way to "get out of your head" as it were. As someone who has always welcomed ways to alter consciousness (mind-altering drugs included) but who is also deeply spiritual, I would like to think that it offers the potential to in some way  connect with the spirit world and a higher power, whatever that may be.

Thanks for you input. Yes I do see the forests etc and feel the vibrations beforehand. Last night
the vibrations were stronger than ever and I felt what I can only describe as strong tugging movements
in my arms and legs but I was paralysed. At one stage, it seemed as if my  head was going to kind of
"explode". Maybe I'm just getting to the point prior to leaving my body and if I keep practising, it will
happen.

How many of you actually leave your body and then see your sleeping body within a room? And what
about willing yourself somewhere, either real or imagined, and finding yourself there? It's great to have
found this board as this is a new thing for me but one which has changed my life already and will have
a profound effect on how I live. I'm not just doing it for the fun of it (although it is probably the most
exciting thing I've ever experienced) but also to find answers and to deepen my spirituality. I'd also be
interested to know at what age people started astral projecting: I came to it rather late (I'm 51!) but
have always had a very vivid imagintation and lucid dreams etc. I'm encouraging my daughter of 9 to meditate (not talking about AP yet because maybe she's too young) and it gives her a calm space when she needs it.

I started meditating just a few weeks ago and took to it like a duck to water. I'm also very interested in astral projection and have been delving into it for about three weeks now. I go into a very deep meditative state really easily and after about 20-30 minutes, I start to feel really strong tingling in my fingers and toes and my mind just seems to float away from my body.

I see amazing things - lots of different coloured shapes pulsing and moving rythmically, a bright white light that I seem to get closer and closer to, I get the sensation I'm flying over forests and through space with the stars whizzing past me. I get occasional glimses of towns and huge cathedral-like buildings and sometimes faces appear. Throughout I feel blissfully happy and just consumed with love and sometimes I cry.

It's a wondrous experience but I don't know if I'm actually out of my body or whether I'm just meditating really deeply and am in a trance of some sort. Has anyone else had a similar experience?