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Dear Friends,
 
I regret very much that I won't be able to participate in this forum any more   .   Other pursuits demand my full attention.  I enjoyed our discussions and I thank you for your interest in Quantum Metaphysics.

Best wishes to you    !

Jo.

Hello Tombo

Thank you very much for your flattering comments, though I don't consider myself being in the genius category   .

I would say the work of a genius, except maybe the last sentence:
Quote:
"Americans could lead this trend with a renewed American Dream."

Why do have Americans to be so patriotic?

Having come from Germany (decades ago), I intended this comment to be encouraging, not as an expression of one-upmanship   .

Holon concept works, as I understand it, only if you have something besides the Holon. For example the Kristal + 3D-Space because you need a Place for the holon to exist. So, would this lead to the conclusion that there is something outside All-Entity?

Excellent question! Please note that I wrote:

Imagine a cut crystal, say a diamond, and consider only its form, ignoring its material

In other words, we are thinking of space only, and the crystal does not actually exist except in our mind.  It is a "thought experiment".  The holon concept does not require anything outside the holon.  

Did I understand you right that All-Entity does evolve and grow?
This again gives me headaches. If something evolves doesn't that mean it was less evolved once thus started to exist once?

The holistic Whole of the universe, which I called All-Entity, is in a continuous state of flux.  Otherwise it would be dead, and we would be dead with it.  Seers have said that All-Entity is "breezing" in and out over eons, endlessly.  Remember that this is in our terminology. In ultimate reality, time does not exist in our terms.  There is no beginning and no end.  Rather think of life evolving in circles or spirals.

How can All-Entity have a will? If something is all there is, there is no Place to go, therefore a will is meaningless  

Excellent point again. Please read the topic "What is the will of All-Entity"

Do you have a theory how mind can interact with matter?

Yes:  all possible situations do already exist in multi-dimensional reality.  We "realize" in our physical environment only what resonates with our mindset.  For more information, please consult my book, "Understanding the Grand Design".  It's too much for this forum.

Jo.

No, Astral-Raven, I believe that your friend's soul could have incarnated more than one individual during the same time period. In other words, it could have created "overlapping" incarnations and its other incarnation met you after the death of its first one.

You're welcome, Telos  

Jo.

HI Telos,

You are not Wayne Dyer and I am sorry for grouping you with him if you believe differently. You said that the All-Entity does not force us how to live our life, but do you believe, as Dyer says, that our only free will decision is whether or not to live in harmony with the All-Entity?

Whatever I read of Wayne Dyer was quite in line with my own understanding.  He is doing a great job to bring the new line of thinking to the masses. Yes, it is our decision whether or not to live in harmony with the All-Entity, and I think that it is our most crucial decision, but I wouldn't call it our only free will decision.

Jo.

Hello Telos,

You wrote on 3/7:

I had the impression that the All-Entity had "top-down causality" over us.

It does, by giving us "Being" and life. But it does not force us how we live our life.  If you refer to my essay, pg. 31, You'll find a section titled "Causality".  It explains that there are two types of causality. The one used by science I called "temporal causation" because it occurs in time sequence.  The other is a top-down causation, which I called "holistic causation".  It can cause faster-than-light events.  Perhaps you want to look up this paragraph in my website.

Hello Psam,

Continuing my 3/8 reply to your 3/7 post, you said:

Its true that our sense organs are arrangements of matter. But matter (now we know through QT) is not 3-dimensional. In fact, there is no such thing as 3D matter. The subatomic and 'force-particles' surely dwell in many dimensions.

It is my perception that the basic function of our sense organs are understood via the classical view of matter. ( Correct me, please, if I'm wrong.)  I agree, of course, that in reality everything occurs in more dimensions than 3-D (plus time).  You are helping me to make this point, Psam   .  

Its also wrong to say that their sensing ability is limited to 3D. May be you know this and must have simplified things for readers, that we 'construct' the 3D world out of whatever impressions our senses register.

Again, I do understand that the entire sensing process (as everything else) is multi-dimensional [mD].  This is the thrust of my essay.  I did not know that this view is now generally accepted.

So its our minds which approximates the world to 3D, even though the information had mD components throughout.

Exactly!  This is the point I am trying to get across.  Thank you, Psan.

Psan wrote on 3/7 13:29:

. . . endowing it (All-Entity) with human emotions or even making an analogy of this sort is nothing but animism.

I agree that nothing in our language is adequate to describe the nature of All-Entity.  Yet, we can't help but try it anyhow because, as beings with intelligence, we can't help but wonder about what is the basis of everything.  The only recourse we have is to communicate with metaphors, analogies, and imagery.  Even our best scientists use this approach.  Einstein imagined riding on a beam of light when he created his relativity theory.  I don't know which of my statements may have given you the impression of animism.  Whatever I wrote was sure not intended this way.

All-Entity is the very opposite if anything individual or personal because individuality or personality requires a comparison with other individuals or personalities.  However, All-Entity is all there is, with nothing to compare.  If I were asked to provide any description of All-Entity, I might call it a nonlocal field of multi-dimensional energy.  However, this is not correct either because it conjures up visions of space, which do not correspond to ultimate reality.  And the term "multi-dimensional" loses its meaning at the "top", referring to the discussion below.

I don't know what it conveys when someone says that its multidimensional, except that some phenomena can only be described with expressions having higher degrees of freedom.

Right, that's all it means to me.  Actually, it makes no sense to talk about dimensions at the level of All-Entity.  If we could perceive All-Entity directly, we would not discern any differentiations, not any lines of demarcation, etc., because all is one single, undifferentiated whole.  It is only because of our limited degree of perception that we don't see how everything is interconnected, and therefore we try to make sense of our environment by introducing different "dimensions", different ": degrees of freedom".  All-Entity is nothing but freedom, without differences or degrees, and the concept of dimensions is not appropriate any more.

Perhaps we could call All-Entity a singularity in the mathematical sense, where all our laws of physics collapse, as in the Big Bang.  As I understand higher reality, space and time do not exist there.  And, if time does not exist, everything that happened in the past and that will happen in the future co-exists in the great Here and Now.  This implies that the Big Bang is still happening.  Where else but in other "dimensions" where we don't have the degree of freedom to go? J
I'll address the rest of your post later, Psan.

Jo.

Hello CaCoDeMoN

Excellent point in your 12:48 post!  I picked the Topic Heading in response to a question from Telos about what All-Entity wants us to do.  My answer was that All-Entity does not care one way or the other.  And I did not mean that A-E does not care, because It is involved through us.  But It does not interfere with our free will.

Thank you for pointing out that A-E does have an agenda of its own, and since A-E and we are One, we have the same agenda: to experience life, which means a  

desire to change, exist and evolve

, as you said.

I also agree completely with your other comments:

I also think that conception of "All-Entity" is frequently confused with "God" concept. I think that we are not a part of Jewish/Christian YHWH god, and this God is certainly not everything that exist. From what I find in Old and New Testament this entity lacks of "unconditional love" and has desire to control and punish and this is not the way "All-Entity" would behave. It would not punish itself.

Jo.

Hello Frank,

Thank you for your reply.

"will of all entity". To me, that sounds like a traditional ultimate god concept only couched in more modern-day meta-physical terms.

I totally agree with you, Frank, and I tried to explain why there is NO will of All-Entity like that of a traditional god.  Rather there are "automatic" consequences to our thoughts and actions, and it is in our interest to take these into account.  Sorry if I did not make this clear enough.

Jo.

Telos asked me about All-Entity's will, and I answered:

"All-Entity does not care one way or the other.  Our purpose is to experience the (long term) effect of our thoughts and actions."

Needless to say, this subject is much too complex to be treated with a couple of short sentences.  In fact, I'm not sure whether I will be able to explain my opinion well enough to satisfy a wide audience.  Therefore, I'll start with a relatively short description and hope that comments and questions from forum members will help to clarify this subject.

I have coined the term "All-Entity" for the unified whole of the entire universe, and I mean by "unified" that there are no boundaries and separations between the parts at this highest level of reality.  We cannot visualize how physical objects such as stones, planets, solar systems, and galaxies cannot be separated from one another, but remember that our senses are very limited.  Our eyes see only a minuscule part of the entire electro-magnetic radiation spectrum.  So do our ears hear only a miniscule part of the acoustic spectrum.  And this is true for all our senses.  Furthermore, because our sense organs are constructed in three-dimensional matter, their sensing capability is limited to 3-D and consequently our mind tends to take it for granted that 3-D phenomena are all there is.  The only other dimension we are experiencing is that our world changes with time.

Because of an enlightening experience a long time ago, I am totally convinced that this is a misconception of actual reality.  The only reason why we believe that our 3-D + time world is the only "real" reality is because we don't experience anything else.  This is like people in ancient times believing that the Earth is flat because they have not experienced it otherwise.

I believe (without any doubt) that the real, Total Reality has untold more dimensions than our limited (3-D + time) perception.  We cannot perceive or even imagine the Total Reality because of our limitation, not because it does not exist.  Since this Total is the unity of all that exists, it includes also conscious life, because nobody doubts that conscious living beings exist.  Therefore I feel justified to call the unity of all that is "All-Entity".

Now we can try to understand why there are no separations and limitations in All-Entity, why everything is united in one single, homogeneous Whole, although things appear separated from our point of view.  Think of a flat table top.  Assume that it is populated with little bugs that are totally flat.  All they see of one another is their outside perimeter which appears as a single line, because their companions have no height.  For these creatures, a 3-dimensional environment is inconceivable.  They live and think only in 2-D, because this is all they experience.  If you touch the tabletop with all five fingers of your hand, the 2-D creatures would see only five separate "entities", because they cannot see the 3-D hand that connects them.
 
Our physicists have observed a similar situation in our world.  They have discovered some mysterious connection between subatomic events although they are so far separated in 3-D space that they shouldn't be able to influence one another.  The the scientists call this phenomenon "nonlocal".  However, if we assume that these events occur in more than three dimensions, they can be easily explained.

Coming back now to the "will of All-Entity", everything is intimately interconnected in this Whole of Everything.  It is the very characteristic of All-Entity that no divisions, no boundaries, and no separations exist at Its level.  Whatever occurs at our limited level of consciousness is automatically absorbed "at the top" because wholeness is the very essence there.  It does not matter for All-Entity whether we "screw up" in our limited world.  We are the ones who'll have to experience the consequences, because this is how the universe is organized.  Everything we do is o.k. with All-Entity.  Religions call this "unconditional Love".  However we better be careful what we do to one another, and to our environment, because we will reap what we sow.

Jo.

Hello Everyone,

Telos and I agreed in a PM conversation that we misunderstood one another because our language is too limited to clearly express multiple "degrees of freedom"   .  Our dialog led also to a new subject.  Please see the topic: "What is the will of All-Entity?"

Telos,

As I see it, the extra dimensions make it a lot easier to explain quantum phenomena, similar to how it was easier to assume that the Earth rotates around the Sun, and not the other way around.  At that time, it was not considered necessary to make that assumption, but it sure helped.

Jo.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Telos,
I wrote:

It makes a difference whether you understand it as a beautiful philosophy or with the certainty of a law of physics. It's the difference between nice moral guidelines versus hard-nosed rational common sense.

You answered:

Yes, I agree. The science of ecology is hard-nosed rational common sense. What affects part of the ecosystem affects the whole ecosystem. What effects one ecosystem affects other apparently different ecosystems. There it is - hard-nosed rational common sense without the need for extra dimensions, or any understanding of quantum physics. While still beautiful!

You did not get my point, Telos, and I don't believe that any further discussion will change that.  I am sorry.

Jo.

Telos wrote:

This is a very beautiful philosophy and I have no trouble applying that my life. However, more than 4 dimensions are not necessary for that conclusion.

It makes a difference whether you understand it as a beautiful philosophy or with the certainty of a law of physics.   It's the difference between nice moral guidelines versus hard-nosed rational common sense.  

JoWo, in your spiritual experience, what was it that made you think that what you were experiencing was quantum extradimensionality?

What I experienced was a clear vision of the relationship between wholes and their parts, which involves dimensions beyond those of our physical environment.  I didn't see these dimensions as mathematically definable space dimensions, but as added "degrees of freedom" beyond our physical world.  My deep understanding of the inner relationship of parts versus their common wholes virtually exploded in a realization that the entire universe consists of such relationships, including those of living beings.  The relationship between quantum waves and particles was one of the obvious examples.  So was the perceived difference of 3-D space and time versus their Minkowski/Einstein's 4-D environment as their whole.  So were ants as parts of the whole of their ant colony, etc. etc. It was an understanding of the age-old puzzle that led to the definition of the Holy Trinity.  

It requires an understanding that the 'whole' must have more dimensions than its individual parts.  And by "dimension" I mean "degree of freedom" the capability to extend along an additional direction.  This was exactly what quantum physicists grappled with.  I could easily "visualize" quantum effects such as the double-slit experiment and Heisenberg's uncertainty theorem, and this was back in 1947 when scientists held on to their four-dimensional worldview.  By now, their view has grown to 11 or 12 dimensions.  It depends on how many different types of phenomena one wants to unite in one theory.  The more diversity, the higher the number of dimensions in the common whole.

It takes more than four dimensions to explain the behavior of subatomic parts and it takes many more to address life phenomena.  What kind of dimensions we are talking about depends on the kind of phenomena, but the underlying law is the same for all, as I perceived it.  It's a universal law, I am sure.  Can I prove it?  Can you prove that superstring theory is correct?  No.  But do you want to reject a fundamental holistic relationship because you can't prove it scientifically yet, even though it dramatically simplifies the explanation of complex phenomena?  My certainty comes from the fact that I have lived with this over half a century, and I have yet to encounter a situation where it does not apply.  It just is too obvious to me and I have received many letters from individuals who "get it" immediately and who thank me for having changed their lives.  

Are these dimensions the same as those of the spiritual world?  I don't know whether we can say so on a one by one basis.  However, the question is whether there is a world beyond our physical world, a world that we cannot directly perceive, a world that influences our physical environment in mysterious ways, a world with degrees of freedom beyond the ones we experience, then my answer is a definite Yes.  I prefer to call this world "multi-dimensional" (meaning "more than our 3-D space and 1-D time dimensions), adopting this term from Jane Roberts' Seth books.  In the past, people called this kind of world "spiritual".

I am sure that there are differences between multi-dimensional phenomena in quantum physics and others that affect our lives.  However, one basic conclusion of Holistic Logic is that nothing whatsoever exists that does not have life at its innermost core, if ever so rudimentary.  So there is no clear demarcation between life and "dead matter" and we cannot separate the concept of physical multi-dimensionality from spiritual reality.  It's just a matter of semantics.

Jo.

Hello Telos and BillionNamesofGod.
Sorry that I couldn't join this thread earlier.  Over time, I'll try to answer Telos' statements of his detailed and thoughtful opening post of 28 Feb 2005 01:38 in several messages.
 
Telos wrote:

Unfortunately, after I finished reading (and rereading) the essay, I was unable to apply it to my life, especially over the long term.

This surprises me, because I had the opposite experience.  My life had changed profoundly after my vision of higher reality that led to my essay "Revolution in Common Sense".  It all boils down to live with the understanding that we are all connected, that we are all One.  It means that it is the smart thing to do, to love your neighbor as yourself, because you hurt yourself when you hurt another, with you and he being parts of the same One.  And it is smart to love the great One-of-Everything, because this puts you in harmony with your innermost self, which is identical with the One-of-Everything.  We call this happiness.

Please understand, that this follows naturally from the Holistic Logic developed in my 1991 essay and updated in my 2003 book.  It just so happens that these rational conclusions correspond to what we have been told some 2000 years ago by a very famous enlightened individual.  It also happens that the conclusions of Holistic Logic closely correspond to key results of Einstein's relativity theory and of quantum mechanics.  I am not saying that contemporary physics leads conclusively to the spiritual statements from two millennia ago, but the correspondence between the two is rather remarkable when viewed through Holistic Logic.

I realized this in 1947 and I have tried to implement the conclusions in my life, using myself as a "guinea pig", if you will.  I have made my mistakes during this quest, and I have learnt from them.  But over more than half a century I have witnessed an ever-increasing similarity between modern physics and Holistic Logic, not to speak of the many volumes of books that have appeared on the market, written by scientists as well as channelers, supporting the views gained from Holistic Logic.  Thus I felt justified to introduce the term "Quantum Metaphysics".
 
Now, Telos, if you are unable to apply my essay to your life, perhaps we should find out why this is so, because I did not have this problem.  If you like, give me a few examples of how you failed to apply the contents of my essay to your life.  Maybe I can help unraveling the difficulties. You may also find the answers in my book, "Understanding the Grand Design: Spiritual Reality's Inner Logic" which deals specifically with practical applications.

Nonetheless, I'll address the points of your 28 Feb. post in later messages and we'll see how far I'll get, because my time for this is limited, unfortunately.

Talk to you later,

Jo.

The soul does not split, it remains totally whole while it supports its individual incarnations in physical reality.  Remember, time in our sense, does not exist at the level of the soul. What we perceive as sequential events exist simultaneously in multi-dimensional reality.  Even the incarnations that we perceive in different historical times appear simultaneously to the soul.  Therefore, it's "no big deal" for the soul to have incarnations that appear simultaneously to us.

Hello Astral_Raven'

There is another possible explanation to your Feb. 12. post.  We think that reincarnations occur in time sequence.  However, according to Seth, who has channeled several books through the late Jane Roberts, a soul can incarnate more than one physical individual in a given time period.  Seth called these simultaneous incarnations "alternate Selves", if I remember correctly.  They are soul mates in a literal sense (not necessarily in the romantic sense usually ascribed to them).  You may want to read about it in Jane Roberts' Seth book, "The Nature of Personal Reality".

Jo.

It is extremely unlikely, I believe, that your old friend Jason has reincarnated so fast in another mature body.  However, since your new friend is so much like Jason, it is easy for Jason to identify with your new friend, and I consider it quite possible that he could be spiritually present when you and your new friend are together.

Hi Talos,
You wrote:

It's the act of measurement that affects the outcome of an experiment, and human consciousness is not necessary for measurement.

I would say that there is no measurement without human consciousness.  The act of measuring is an act of the human mind, acted out in physical reality.  The measurement represents a conscious effort to understand the nature of reality.  Without the human consciousness, there would be no measurement.

Quantum physics leaves the possibility of parallel universes open, but it is by no means conclusive. The Many-Worlds Interpretation of quantum mechanics is just one of many worthy theories.

Fair enough, Talos.  The Many-Worlds interpretation is a valid theory of quantum physics, but it is not the only one.  The point is, however, that some quantum physicists accept that consciousness affects quantum events.  Other physicists believe that consciousness "collapses the waveform" to form a particle.
However, I don't assume that we will resolve these issues here in this forum while the best scientists of the world can't agree on a common interpretation.  Rather, let me explain why I am convinced of the close interrelationship between our consciousness and the quantum world.
Decades ago, I had a dramatic enlightening experience of higher reality.  Ever since than I "know" that our physical reality is but one possible aspect of the underlying, true reality.  The "real" reality has untold more dimensions than our 3-D world, and we experience only one of infinite different aspects of true reality.  It is like snapping pictures of a tree from different angles.  It's always the same tree, but we can look at it from different angles.  So we "create many possible "parallel worlds" from one and the same multi-dimensional reality.  It's too much to explain here in this post, but if you are interested, you can read more about it in my website www.quantom-metaphysics.com or in my book, "Understanding the Grand Design".
In the 1970s, I came across Jane Roberts' channeled Seth books, and I was fascinated how Seth described this very same "mechanism" of our reality.  Throughout his many books, he keeps on repeating that true reality is multi-dimensional, and  "You create your own reality" by focusing on one of many possible aspects of that higher reality.  
The problem with quantum physics is that it makes no common sense to us.  The reason is that our common sense is faulty, not quantum reality.  The biggest obstacle to understanding "real' reality is this: physicists take it for granted that physical reality is the "real" reality and everything else must be understood in terms of our physical environment.  This view is upside-down.  The most fundamental base of all reality is the unified whole of Everything, which I call "All-Entity".  All other phenomena are limited aspects of this transcendent Whole.  
It is also necessary to have a clear understanding of how these limited aspects are related to the whole.  This is true for any whole, for instance the photon is the whole of its two aspects, wave and particle.
There is also some confusion about what is real and what is not.  For instance, the multiple-world interpretation is difficult to accept if you assume that all these infinite number of parallel universes must coexist. This problem disappears if we accept that "All-Entity" is the only truly "real reality" and everything else are more or less limited (lower-dimensional) aspects of It, like many different views off the same tree.

Hello Telos,

There is no evidence that connects quantum mechanics to consciousness, except that which is purely theoretical

Allow me please to disagree. A fundamental aspect of quantum mechanics is that the act of observing affects the outcome of a quantum experiments.  In other words, the consciousness of the observer interacts with the quantum process.

Quantum physics has also concluded that reality consists of an infinite number of "parallel universes".  We observe only one at a time, depending on our state of consciousness.

While this does not necessarily "prove" life after death, it does prove that there is a vast reality beyond the one that we experience physically, and this leads naturally to rather plausible explanations of spiritual knowledge.

Hello Necromancer,

why is this physical perceived in such a negative way?

Not everyone perceives it that way.  However some individuals who believe in the more basic nature of spiritual reality tend to "look down" on physical reality.  Physical reality is not "bad", of course.  It is an aspect of "God", and you hinder your spiritual growth if you hate any part of God.  Without it, we would never be able to experience the exultation of spiritual reality.

Hello Cristaphin,

Welcome to the club  , and thank you for your comments.

Jo.

Hello Necromancer,

I certainly agree that any point of our world contains immanently the entire multidimensional universe. The higher dimensions are immanent within everything.  Perhaps it is just a matter of semantics, but the concept of higher dimensions being "curled up" to fit into lower dimensional space does not jibe with my experience of higher reality.

JoWo

sure wish I could learn how to control it better

Don't we all?

Jo.