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I have lucid dreams occassionally.  I don't really practice it like I should, meaning:  I don't practice dream recall or do reality checks and what-not.  Anyway, despite not practicing I occassionally have very brief lucid dreams.  Last night I became lucid while staring at something in the yard of my old house.  Everything became completely clear for a moment, and then I lost it and felt myself lying in my bed again.  I remember that I didn't wake up and move, but instead I laid there and attempted to get back into it.  I eventually fell asleep again and had more regular dreams for the rest of the night.  Anyone know of a way to refine this experience without going through the trouble of keeping a journal, doing reality checks, or any of the other tiring methods?

Kozzi

I'm not sure if this has been the case my whole life, but I will never try to sleep on my back because I feel funny when I do.  I call it funny, but I'm saying that I feel like I'm staying more aware up to the point of falling asleep.  I mean, it may have a lot to do with having learned to OBE on my back (in Earth position), but I remember having false awakenings every morning as a child.  Could it be that I or all people have a natural tendency to project when lying in that position?  I mean, I can lay on my back and almost instantly project or get the vibes.  My eyelids will feel like they're fluttering and I almost get dizzy from the strong vibes.  Are there a lot of people like that?

Kozzi

I've seen my alarm clock and my room before, when I had just laid down to sleep or just woken up, and my eyes were closed.  I'm just wondering.  Does anyone know of any visualization techniques that might help in being able to see objects clearly in your mind?

Kozzi

I haven't attempted OBE from having been awake for a long time.  This morning I had to get up early and do some work, but after about 2 hours of working I laid back down to sleep again.  Instead of trying to sleep, though, I laid down flat on my back and went through a brief relaxation technique (I tensed and relaxed all of my muscles a few times).  I laid there for about 15-20 minutes, when suddenly a strange vibe came over me and my body got chills all over it.  It kind of happened when I focused my vision on the blackness behind my eyelids.  Suddenly, I felt like I was twisting at my waist and my arms were flailing about wildly.  I didn't pop out or anything... I don't know if I got too excited or not.  When I tried to calm myself I lost it, and couldn't regain it even though I tried for another 35 minutes.  Any advice?

Kozzi

Just wondering.  I've had very clear and long lucid dreams before, but not many.  Most of mine are rather short, and not so clear...  I know I'm dreaming though.  Is this common?

Kozzi

I've been working on lucid dreaming, and although I'm not having great success with it I have been finding myself in a wonderful position to leave my body.  What's happening is that I'll tell myself at night that I will have a lucid dream.  I'll sometimes start to become lucid and then lose it and find myself in my bed with my legs waving back and forth like a fish tail.  A few times I've been able to concentrate and leave.  However, a lot of times that this happens to me I have a hard time getting out.  I'll feel my legs waving and then I'll let my body start to fall through the bed but it will suddenly be jerked back.  I feel myself wavering in and out, but if I get more than a few inches out I get pulled back.  It feels like my body is a magnet, and I can't break it's pull.  Any thoughts?

Kozzi

I only told myself a few times last night that I would have a lucid dream.  Actually, I said "I will have a lucid dream...  I will become aware that I am dreaming...  I will become conscious..." etc.  I probably repeated this just 6 times, and I had results.  I found myself walking into a bathroom and the lights weren't on.  This happens to me a good bit in dreams and I usually get scared that the lights won't come on.  Last night, though, I didn't care.  I was partially lucid at the moment that I thought about the fact that I wasn't scared.  I became completely lucid when I looked at myself in the mirror, and then things went kind of wacky.  Everything became clear, but it was all distorted.  The colors of my face in the mirror were prismatic, and the features of my face were twisting around the center of my nose as I was losing consciousness.  I still get too damned excited!!!

Kozzi

I posted not too long ago on the OBE side of this forum about an OBE I had the other day.  I'm just letting you know this so that no one wonders why I was certain then and now I'm not.  

I thought it was an OBE, but here's how it happened:

I fell asleep...  I'm sure of that.  I suddenly became aware, but not quite awake.  I realized that my feet were waving back and forth like a fish tail, and I allowed myself to relax and go with the feeling.  Suddenly, I fell through the bed and came out of my body (I actually felt myself leave as if stepping into or out of water... hard to explain).  I wobbled through the air, because I had no control, but I could look at what I wished to look at.  I saw my room and myself lying in my bed...  although, I was afraid to look at myself and this is weird:  When I did look at myself, I heard a really strange noise in my head; like a bunch of people whispering to me...   I was able to keep myself relatively calm, but the experience did not last much longer than that.  

so, OBE or LD?  What was it?

Kozzi

I had an OBE yesterday, but it was really strange.  I was really tired because I had stayed up all night.  I finally went to bed to nap at around 8:30 am.  After some time I began to notice that my feet were waving back and forth like a fish tail.  I knew what this meant so I tried to feel myself falling through the bed face first (I was laying on my stomach).  I immediately started passing through the bed and getting very excited.  I was able to calm myself to a certain extent, but I'm afraid my excitement caused some loss of lucidity during the experience.  My mind was completely there though.  I made a point to look down at my body...  wow, what a freaky feeling that is to see your own seemingly lifeless body laying there in the bed.  The strange part of my experience was my loss of control.  I was barely able to control my movement and I was kind of just bobbling around like an inflated balloon.  Also, I could not see very clearly...  everything looked as if I were viewing the world through night-vision goggles, but not as clear.  

I was just happy to have the third OBE of my life, and I believe I know how to reproduce it much better now.  The wavering effect really got my attention and I was better able to tune into that than any other method I've heard of.  I just let myself go with it!  Absolutely incredible!!!

Kozzi

I've just quit smoking...  cold turkey.  I'm doing just fine though  and I'm sleeping much better than ever at night.  I've quit a few times before, and I've noticed that sleep comes much more easily.  Has anyone here noticed that smoking can adversely effect your ability to lucid dream?  When you quit, did you find that lucid dreams came much easier?

Kozzi

I'd really be interested in finding a discussion group in my area on this topic.  I'm wondering if any of you know where I might find a resource that could tell me whether or not there are groups that get together to discuss lucid dreaming.  I live in Orlando, FL.  Maybe if any of you live nearby, you'd like to meet once in awhile to talk about lucid dreaming?

Kozzi

Just curious, which technique do you guys think is the most successful?  I realize this is more of a personalized thing, but with enough response from you a generalization could be made to help determine which techniques have the most positive effects, and could help many of us in trying to find our own technique.  

If you don't mind and have the time, please explain your technique in full.

Thanks,
Kozzi

I find that if I set my alarm to wake up an hour or two before I'm supposed to get up in the morning and then set it again to wake up an hour or two later I have much more success...  does that make sense?   Anyway, the point is that this method really works well for me.  Really, really well!!!  

Well, a lot of times I don't become lucid, but I do know that I'm looking at something.  This is hard to explain, but I think the whole point is that I need to learn to recognize dream signs or something.  See, I have LDs, but they're usually spontaneous.  Usually, I see something clearly and I almost instantly realize I'm dreaming, but then I lose control of my excitement  However, a lot of times I see something clearly, which is supposed to be my sign post, but I don't realize that I'm dreaming.  Any clues?

Kozzi

Have any of you noticed that it's extremely difficult to define a lucid dream or to be sure that, when talking to someone about lucid dreams, you're both on the same page?  For instance, when I tell someone about lucid dreams I define it as this:  

a lucid dream is a dream in which you know that you're dreaming, and everything becomes clear and you continue to experience the dream with full knowledge that it is a dream and you can do anything you wish, and spend time looking at anything you wish.

I'll also emphasize sometimes how important it is to notice the clarity of the dream.  I find that a lot of people think that remembering their dreams is enough to be a lucid dream.  They know that they were dreaming, so they believe that we're talking about the same thing.  But, no...   you have to know you are dreaming at that moment, and then it may only continue for a few seconds or even several minutes, but this is generally accompanied by a very overwhelming feeling of excitement, which takes some practice to get control of.  

Anyway, that's my question...   Did I make sense?

Kozzi

Would anyone know of a good resource for finding articles about famous people having had lucid dreams and talking about them, or interesting facts about lucid dreams and lucid dreamers?

Kozzi

The first time I tried keeping a journal I had a lucid dream within 3 days of starting the journal.  I was amazed!  Unfortunately, it gets rather tedious keeping a journal by hand.  Does anyone use journals to help LDs, and has anyone noticed a difference between the effectiveness of a laptop computer vs. hand writing?

Kozzi

I once lucid dreamed of Jupiter.  I was on a cruise ship for my company's annual Christmas trip to the Bahamas.  We were on our way back to the states and it was early morning.  I'm single so I was in my room alone and trying to lucid dream that morning.  I've always tried WILD but have only succeeded once, but as usual that is what I was trying to do that morning.  Anyway, on with it right?  

I only remember bits and pieces of most of the dream before a certain point (the point of complete lucidity I assume).  Those bits and pieces were quite lucid, however and yet disconnected.  The whole theme was this:  I was "within" Jupiter.  I was being showed by "light beings" that their world is a highly intelligent one, but would not be recognized as even being life by humans.  They were showing me their "books" or records.  They gave me the impression that they had to show me their culture by giving me images in a human sense and in earth-like form, i.e. books, trees, buildings, etc.  I remember clearly one page of a book they showed me and the words "Star Phibrae".  I knew then that this meant star fiber.  They were saying that this star fiber is the form we would see if we were to see them as they truly are.  They were telling me that our science is rather primitive and very anthropocentric.  At the point of complete lucidity I was with one of them floating in the space between Jupiter's most inner layers of gas.  This being was still in human form and I remember that the key to my lucidity was his arm and finger pointing towards the core of Jupiter and he was saying "...they don't even know or understand that there is a world down there.", meaning the core was their world.  In fact, because of the nature of their bodies the core is them, and for some reason I felt as if this was the proof of their intelligence.  I could theorize about the reasons for this, but I won't go into that...  I prefer to stay objective.  After he said this to me I remember turning and facing our world and seeing how far away and small it was and feeling so humbled...  no, I felt embarrased.

One other impression they gave me was that Jupiter would eventually turn into a star.  I promise to you that I did not know anything about Jupiter, scientifically, at that time.  Only after this dream I had an interest to learn more about our beliefs and science about Jupiter.  It turns out that Jupiter is believed to be a failed star.  It apparently did not have the critical mass to allow its gravity to take over the gases and begin a nuclear reaction.  I wonder if these beings may have been telling me that the gravity, which our scientists to this day do not understand, could be affected and thus cause such a reaction.

Anyway, I thought it was a really cool dream.  It's effect on me lasts to this day, and is just as strong.  I can no longer take our beliefs too seriously...   I guess I've pretty much become an Objectivist!  

Kozzi

I do not have many out of body experiences. In fact, my first OBE was induced, and I've not practiced long enough to do it again. Actually, I realize now that I should concentrate more on LDs in order to achieve OBE, but this is beside the point. On to my topic:

I wake up out of body sometimes. It doesn't happen very often, but for some reason it seems to happen more often when I'm on the ocean or near the ocean. I'm sure this has to do with the things I know, but won't say right now, because that's another topic altogether. Anyway, last night I woke up out of body again. I fell asleep on the couch last night at around 2:00 am. My brother is staying here in the condo with us, so I couldn't use the other bed. When he woke up to go to bed at around 4:30, I took that bed and continued sleeping. Later on, I woke up and felt very strange. I felt as if I were hanging off the bed. I could see, but not very clearly. My vision wasn't just blurry, it was as if it were kind of "buzzy" Almost as if it were digital and had all the lines skewed so that it seemed the pixels couldn't come together. At first I was very excited, and I immediately tried to leap out!!! This brought my heart rate up and distored the vision so I told myself to calm down. Immediately I felt my heart beat lessen and I could see more clearly, but not quite clearly enough. I reached out towards the ceiling and tried to stretch out, but the more I tried the less clear the vision became. I don't understand this. Usually, my problem is that I get too excited, but not this time. I was calm! I even saw "ghosts" and got scared, but was still able to remain "out" and concentrate enough to stay that way for a short time. Then, it was all gone, but I didn't wake immediately. I don't remember how the end went. I think I just began dreaming again or just sleeping. Can anyone give me any pointers? By the way, can anyone help me LD better? I've tried the journal and dream recall and stuff, and this does really seem to help... I'm betting I just don't have the patience, or had not had the patience for that before... ;-P

Oh yeah, I forgot. I actually did move out some... enough to start tumbling a little in the air and get into a position to see my body in the bed below me, but it was too "foggy"... This was the main point of my post... the "foggy vision". Does anyone have any during-OBE fixes for this?

Kozzi

I do not have many out of body experiences. In fact, my first OBE was induced, and I've not practiced long enough to do it again.  Actually, I realize now that I should concentrate more on LDs in order to achieve OBE, but this is beside the point.  On to my topic:

I wake up out of body sometimes.  It doesn't happen very often, but for some reason it seems to happen more often when I'm on the ocean or near the ocean.  I'm sure this has to do with the things I know, but won't say right now, because that's another topic altogether.  Anyway, last night I woke up out of body again.  I fell asleep on the couch last night at around 2:00 am.  My brother is staying here in the condo with us, so I couldn't use the other bed.  When he woke up to go to bed at around 4:30, I took that bed and continued sleeping.  Later on, I woke up and felt very strange.  I felt as if I were hanging off the bed.  I could see, but not very clearly.  My vision wasn't just blurry, it was as if it were kind of "buzzy"  Almost as if it were digital and had all the lines skewed so that it seemed the pixels couldn't come together.  At first I was very excited, and I immediately tried to leap out!!!  This brought my heart rate up and distored the vision so I told myself to calm down.  Immediately I felt my heart beat lessen and I could see more clearly, but not quite clearly enough.  I reached out towards the ceiling and tried to stretch out, but the more I tried the less clear the vision became.  I don't understand this.  Usually, my problem is that I get too excited, but not this time.  I was calm!  I even saw "ghosts" and got scared, but was still able to remain "out" and concentrate enough to stay that way for a short time.  Then, it was all gone, but I didn't wake immediately.  I don't remember how the end went.  I think I just began dreaming again or just sleeping.  Can anyone give me any pointers?  By the way, can anyone help me LD better?  I've tried the journal and dream recall and stuff, and this does really seem to help...   I'm betting I just don't have the patience, or had not had the patience for that before...  ;-P

Kozzi

I've OBE'd once before intentionally.  Since then, I've been able to see through my eyelids occassionally and have had several lucid dreams.  I know now that I could do it whenever I wish, but when I start to try people come up to me and get right in my face and it really scares me.  I more or less get too excited after that happens or scared and I can't get back into it.  Look, I just want to talk to someone.  For the love of God!!!  I'm tired of forums.  I want a live person to share experiences with and get REAL feedback.

Well first, you haven't told us your dream.  Secondly, don't you think it's pretty obvious that you'd feel some kind of guilt for dating someone while trying to seperate from your husband?  

While not knowing the content of your dream (because you've not said), I think it's obvious that anyone in your position would feel some guilt.  It's not wrong to go on with your life, but you must understand the consequences for your children.  Children don't understand why we sometimes lose love for someone, especially when that someone is their father.  

Was it a premonition?  Well, it'd have to be pretty damn specific to be a premonition.  If the details of your dream only suggested that your son has some problem with your new boyfriend, then that is only your own guilt.  So, no.  You did not have a premonitory dream.  You just feel guilty.  Sorry to be so honest, but that's just the way it is.  Maybe you'll get lucky though, and some other member of this forum will play to some fantasy you might have about ESP and you being special, but, in my opinion, that's just not the case.  I know you probably hate my opinion.  Sorry, but you're just experiencing the wonderful honesty of the so-called "unconcious" mind at work.

Kozzi

Ditto.

Kozzi

You have to make a concious effort to become more aware of your dreams.  There's probably no hope, now, of learning what significance the "memory port" had in your dream or life.  But, maybe you can still remember what had been on your mind during the days surrounding that occurence.  Dreams are simply our creations.  We use the dream world to act out issues in our lives or our imaginations.  There's nothing "mystical" about them whatsoever.  There is nothing about them that you can't understand without a small amount of effort.  Being more aware is the key, and once you start to practice you'll realize you're becoming more aware in life as well.  

I think a lot of "dreamers" don't like my statement that there is no symbology in dreams.  The reason I say it is because dreams can be understood literally.  Dreams are a direct reflection of your everyday and imaginative thoughts.  I'm not religious or superstitious, and I think that's the reason for my thoughts on this.  Sorry, no magic here.  However, the truth is much more interesting.

Michael

I disagree with your statement that you cannot be fully conscious.  I've had plenty of lucid dreams in which my awareness was complete.  I've also had the type you're explaining in which conciousness takes irrational leaps of judgement.  I believe that, in those experiences, you're simply not completely lucid yet.  Trust me, I've had enough experience to realize the difference.

Kozzi

You're actually very lucky.  There are a lot of experienced people here who would love to be in your shoes.  What you're experiencing is the final stages of a sort of body-mind detachment, which we all go through in order to have an out of body experience.  There have been a few times in my life when I've had the exact same experience you're describing naturally without any preparation.  However, I must spend a lot of time meditating, usually, to get to the place you're describing.  Do not be scared.  Everything you've described experiencing in your dream is a product of your own mind.  There is nothing to fear.  Like you said, the skull disappeared when you asked it to, and this is because you created the scene you experienced.  I was scared for awhile, while I was getting used to having the experience (whether it was lucid dreaming, OBE, etc.).  Private message me, and I would be willing to talk to you more in depth about this.

Thanks,

Michael