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hello all, I have just recently started meditation (so far 6 times) and I have a few questions?

While lying in a semi reclined position on my bed, I have been focusing my awareness on different parts of my body until I feel a throbbing or priockling sensation (toes, bottom of feet, fingers hands, knees.....) I do this for 5-10 minutes then begin "Sesning, pulling" energy up my legs into my navel area chakra. This causes a very slight vibration sensation to begin in my body. About 10 minutes into this I fall asleep.

The last two times have been different. I dont fall asleep but I felt a "pressure" on the very top of my head while drawing energy into my naval. Then when the pressure became such that I started to wonder what it was, I began thinking too much and would come out of the meditative state.

Should I be worried I am doing something wrong or continue focusing on drawing energy into my naval chakra? I havent been trying to open any other areas, and thought just focusing on the navel would be a good way to begin raising energy levels.....

-Finn

I just downloaded the 90day workbook in the hopes this will aid me in obe. Unitil now I have had 6 experiences that I consider obe, where I left my body and walked around my environment, all of which were initiated by lucid dreaming, feeling vibrations, and feeling my hands or legs floating above me.

The first three times this happened I  just let my body float free to the ceiling -  usually ending up with me crash landing into walls and floors and then waking up shortly after that.  The last 3 times I was able to control my "body" better and was able to stand still and look around, even take a few steps around the room.

I hope the workbook will help me to focus. the biggest challenge for me is controlling my fears, which until now have been the result of not understanding what is happening, and also due to strange unexplained things happening to me when I was younger. I chose to ground myself in the physical world for the last ten years, but I recently feel I need to explore my "accidental" projections and try to understand my awareness of things.

If anyone has any thoughts on this, please share them with me. So far this sight has been very helpfull, and I have learned a lot already after reading here for only a week.

-finn

hey, I recently read the astral dynamics book and that is how I found this forum. I wanted to say hi to everyone.
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I have only recently started to focus on obe and am trying to learn more. I have always had lucid dreams as far back as I can remember, some good and some bad and growing up in a small town did not lend itself to spiritual developement very well, Most of my experiences were chalked up to dreams and nightmares by my parents. and any information I found in books was dismissed very quickly.
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After a while I started to believe them and dismissed these experiences myself. I even taught myself to ignore these sensations, I even stopped remembering most of my dreams . However, recently my dreams have become very vivid and I could not ignore the sensation of flying. It is euphoric to say the least! I "HAD" to try to get an understanding of why I was flying and what these vibrations are?
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Since finding this forum, I realize now that I am lucky to be able to "wake" out of a lucid trance state and sense my arms or legs floating above me allowing me to focus on floating out of my physical body and then walk around.
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I have recently started attempting to project while awake and in a meditative state, but I have not projected that way yet. I "have" went deep enough to feel or sense my breathing in a way I never felt before - like I could feel the lungs themselves expand and the air was filling up my entire being, hard to explain.......I also felt REM or something close, my eyes began moving rapidly of their own accord, which was enough to bring me out of the state I was in, I had never felt that before and it freaked me out.
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For now I seem to be able to recognize the signs of obe while in a lucid state long enough to project and transfer my consicience. I seem to sort of sense my body leaving, and its like a duality sense. you can feel your arms floating but you can also feel your arms, body lying on the bed. I just stay relaxed and let my arms or legs float free, gently pulling the rest of me out of my body. sometimes I lose focus and I then try a last ditch effort to "will" myself to sit-up or roll out of my body. this doesnt always work and I end up waking out of the trance state. If this happens I just let myself fall sleep and try again another night.
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also, I am 37 - a full time art student, I play guitar, I spent 6 years travelling all over the world in the military (plenty of experinces there - let me tell you, a lot of things happened to me in italy that I cant explain) and I am currenlty into weightlifting and yoga - kinda combining the physical and spiritual sides of me. And I fly a lot in my dreams lately [], which has some way lead me to this site.
-finn

hey, I recently read the astral dynamics book and that is how I found this forum. I wanted to say hi to everyone.

I have only recently started to focus on obe and am trying to learn more. I have always had lucid dreams as far back as I can remember, some good and some bad and growing up in a small town did not lend itself to spiritual developement very well,  Most of my experiences were chalked up to dreams and nightmares by my parents. and any information I found in books was dismissed very quickly.

After a while I started to believe them and dismissed these experiences myself. I even taught myself to ignore these sensations, I even stopped remembering most of my dreams . However, recently my dreams have become very vivid and I could not ignore the sensation of flying. It is euphoric to say the least!  I "HAD" to try to get an understanding of why I was flying and what these vibrations are?

Since finding this forum, I realize now that I am lucky to be able to "wake" out of  a lucid trance state and sense my arms or legs floating above me allowing me to focus on floating out of my physical body and then walk around.

I have recently started attempting to project while awake and in a meditative state, but I have not projected that way yet. I "have" went deep enough to feel or sense my breathing in a way I never felt before - like I could feel the lungs themselves expand and the air was filling up my entire being, hard to explain.......I also felt REM or something close, my eyes began moving rapidly of their own accord, which was enough to bring me out of the state I was in, I had never felt that before and it freaked me out.

For now I seem to be able to recognize the signs of obe while in a lucid state long enough to project and transfer my consicience. I seem to sort of sense my body leaving, and its like a duality sense. you can feel your arms floating but you can also feel your arms, body lying on the bed. I just stay relaxed and let my arms or legs float free, gently pulling the rest of me out of my body. sometimes I lose focus and I then try a last ditch effort to "will" myself to sit-up or roll out of my body. this doesnt always work and I end up waking out of the trance state. If this happens I just let myself fall sleep and try again another night.

also, I am 37 - a full time art student, I play guitar, I spent 6 years travelling all over the world in the military (plenty of experinces there - let me tell you, a lot of things happened to me in italy that I cant explain) and I am currenlty into weightlifting and yoga - kinda combining the physical and spiritual sides of me. And I fly a lot in my dreams lately, which has some way lead me to this site.

-finn





 

Has anyone had experiences where your girlfriend/boyufriend had the same dream as you, actually sharing in the same dream?

I have had three experiences with this, and still trying to figure it out. The most interesting of these was when I was dating this one girl I knew for about 6 months. We were sleeping on a roll-out bed/sofa at my friends house. Sometime in the night, I heard loud banging on the doors and windows of the house. I woke in a state of paralysis and saw shapes flying around the bed where me and my girlfriend were sleeping.

I immediately started singing the words to something I cannot remember. I do not know or remember what I was singing, only knowing that if I didnt say these words something bad was going to happen. As I started singing the shapes flew faster around the bed and blue colored sparks emitted from the shapes as they tried to approach.

The shapes shrieked and were vanishing one by one as I felt a sharp  tugging on my shoulder. I awoke to find my girlfriend leaning over me and pulling on my shoulder telling me to wake up over and over again. She was scared and said that she had a dream she was being chased by black shapes and they chasing her from the house. She said as she was running she could hear singing and she felt calmer at the sound. She said it felt very real and when she woke up her body was very slow to respond. When she looked over to me, I was aleep singing the same words she heard in her dream and this scared her all over again, she grabbed my shoulder to wake me and that was when I awoke.

We sat there and argued about who was going to get out of bed and turn the lights on, we were both kinds scared at that point. Does anyone here have any insight or similiar experiences? Of my other two experiences, one is just as bad, the other was more enjoyable.

okay, I did a search on the forums and it seems that I am not alone in experiencing an increased level of static electricity from raising energy levels and meditaton.

About my lucid dream, I am thinking of approaching the Pendulum to furthur analize what it could mean. I have the sense that I was communicating or performing some sort of ritual, and I am not sure of the "intent" or symbolism associated with the disc.

I also forgot to mention that during this lucid exchange, a crowd of people gathered to watch as we exchanged throws, with our getting a reaction from the crowd depending on how expansive of a "trick" the disc would perform during the throw. All in all a very interesting dream, and I am curious what the pendulum will say about it, or if it will "not' allow me to ask about the dream, as was the case when I brought up questions of the astral during my first two hours.

I will be going on vacation the next three weeks from school, so I will not be able to post my experiences as often as I would like. I have been using the internet at school and do not have it at home....... I am looking forward to catching up with everyone else's experiences when I get back from vacation

Thank you for the Pendulum Mayatnik, I will continue to explore this new rapport I have seemed to established, and good luck to everyone else in developing their own rapport with the Pendulum.

-Finn

hello all

I decided to spend a few hours playing with the pendulum. At first I was tempted to go "buy" a pre-made Pendulum, but as Mayatnik pointed out, anything will work.  I am still using a string and a metal clip for a weight, like you would find on a key chain. I would like to share a portion of my questions and experiences here today.

During this whole session I continued to verify what yes and no meant, and consistenlty got confirmation. I started by not knowing what to ask, actually just sat their staring at this piece of string hanging in front me LOL.  No offense Mayatnik,  but I started by asking if it was okay to ask about you.  I got a solid (yes). I asked is Mayatnik good (yes) Is Mayatnik Bad (no) Is Mayatnik truly a channeler (yes) Is it okay for me to have doubts (yes) will my doubts cause the pendulum to not work (no) will my doubts cause problems communicating with my spirit guide (yes) do I have a sprit guide (yes) is my guide here (no) am I making the pendulem move (searching) am I communicating with a guide (yes) could I be communicating better (yes) am I asking the right questions (searching) am i asking the wrong questions (no) is there something more specific I could be asking (yes) do I know what that is (no) will meditation help me to know (searching) am i meditating properly (no) is there something else I should be doing while meditating (yes) do I know what that is (no) will crystals help me (searching) will I meditate better with crystals (searching) will crystals help me focus in meditation (yes) do I have negative energy affecting me (no) did I have negative energy affect me as a child (yes) is this negative energy gone from my life (yes) will negative energy affect me now (searching) do I have positive energy  (yes) will me energy increase (searching) is my spirit  guide here (no) but there is a guide here (yes)

After a few hours of questions back and forth like this, I found it very easy to establish a rapport with the pendulum. Many answers were a solid yes, almost swinging 2-3 inches, other times a response would waver - or swing one inch in a yes/no, suggesting a maybe. This would lead to me rephrasing a question for a better response. This rapport started to take on almost like having a normal conversation with someone sitting there and the questions become more fluid, one answer always leading to another question.

I was very intrigued by all this and not sure about a lot of things right now.  Not to take it off topic but if I can share some of this, it might make it easier to understand. Earlier during the day I had the strangest experience with static electricity. I have always had a fair amount of it, and people often get a small shock when they touch me. earlier today, I approached the door to my apartment as I always do after school and when I held my key up to the door lock, All the hairs on my hand stood up. My hand was a good 4 inches from the door, and a blue spark went from my key to the door lock, causing a small crackle sound. I just kinda stood there, and thought WTF. It didnt hurt, just caused a sensation. I have never experienced anything to that extreme before.

I also had a very strange dream last night after all this. In the dream I was walking down a dirt road, a back alley. there were buildings and a wooden fence along one side. There were 2 native americans standing along the fence, dressed normally in street clothes. A third native american was only wearing a loincloth, and had tattoos/paint covering his body. (this was when I realized I was dreaming, indians dont walk around like that, and this was enough to jolt my sense of reality) As I approached them, the one with tattoo's picked up a LARGE knife from the ground, and threw it at me!

I stood there and watched this large knife flying right at the center of my chest, I was petrified. I started to run/duck/hide or something, but I thought, why am I scared? This is a dream and I should be able to make the knife stop. So I decided to stand there. As the knife got closer, it suddenly stopped right in front of me and fell to the ground. I thought, OK.....he three it at me, I'll throw it back! I picked it up and threw it.  He smiled and caught it, he threw it back, this time the knife transformed into a small spinning metal disk. I caught the disc, like a frisbee. then it became a game of who could "will" the disc to perform the best trick.

After a few throws, he threw it at me and the disc enlarged to about 4 feet in diameter, but wasnt any more difficult to throw than the frisbee it was previously. After a few throws, I noticed there were geometric shapes forming on the LARGE disc, I stopped throwing to look at the disc but before I could look at the pattern in detail, I woke up! All I remember about the disc is that it had 5 thick black lines on it, originating from the center, and the disc was blue inside the lines, there were shapes and patterns inside the lines, but too small for me to discern before I woke up.

Okay, long post I know, but I had a lot of stuff to talk about.

-Finn

hello mayatnik

thank you for the post on the pendulum. I have read about  the pendulum once before a long time ago but didnt pursue the technique at that time. I think it is unique that I chose to "discover" this site the same time you are posting this technique. Maybe it is time for me to utilize this technique over what I had previously chosen to use for personal growth, which were runestones.

I found that by using the stones, I was able to focus on how my thoughts responded to each stones meaning. By looking within myself and analyzing how I "felt" about each stone as it pertained to the question, I was able to form a better understanding about  myself as well as the outcome of my question.

It has been over a year since I used these stones, initially got them from a dear friend about 6 years ago (who got them from someone else, so they have some history).  I recently started using them again, and have been surprised at the thoughts that come to my mind in response to some of my questions.  From your previous post, I now wonder if this process is in some way related to receiving input from a guide?

I did a quick test last nght with some string and a clasp of metal on the end for the Pendulum. I was surprised how when I held it in front of me and it was still. Then I said "give me a no please" and it moved back and forth. I said thank you, it stopped. I said "give me a yes please"  and it moved left to right. When I said thank you, it stopped. I asked a few quick questions and got positive answers, then I asked about the outcome of my college, and it swung in a confused manner - which relates to your quoting that it is searching and the result has too many factors for a direct response.

After this experience I am motivated to pursue this technique in more detail. Sorry for the long response, I just wanted you to know that I appreciate your input

-Finn

thanks for the responses, I am new to this and I still surprised at the physical sensations asscoiated with energy work. I was worried that I would somehow cause an imbalance of energy and since I wasnt even focusing on any other chakras as yet, It kinda shocked me to feel pressure on the top of my head when I wasnt focusing there.

Thanks for the input on technique as well, I think lying semi prone on my bed, although comfortable, is TOO comfortable. I fell alseep again yesterday LOL. I "do" get 8-10 hours of sleep a night, so I know I am not sleep deprived, it seems that I am just in too comfortable of a position........

-Finn

uhm, it is on the home page of this site in the downloads section at the bottom. there isnt anything new that isnt covered in astral dynamics, just provides a general outline of exercises to use.

For myself I am using it to organize my thoughts and it also gives me something to write my experiences into.

I have recently started to attempt entering a meditative state and I didnt realize I had so many thoughts running aorund in my head LOL. I have only been able to enter a light trance state due to my thoughts jumping in and announcing every little thing that comes to mind. Even subtle shifts in how the trance feels create thoughts, like "wow, it feels like your falling" or "why does it feel like something pushing against the top of my head" or "does that feel like a vibration?"

Getting the mind to just be a casual observer, ignoring any outside stimuli or internal thoughts, seems to be more difficult than I first thought. For the moment I seem to be very good at projecting myself to sleep  LOL.  From reading other threads here, I gather it will take some practice to give the mind a chance to just "be aware" and not have to conjecture and analyze every little sensation or sound.

then there is projecting from a LD. To me this is like taking a shortcut to the astral. When I wake in a LD, and find myself partially floating, I am already in a trance state and I just let the projection happen. I am still having thoughts but they are in the background, and my mind doesnt seem to need to announce  "every little thing", and when it does think something, it does it very slow and I need to conscentrate on what exactly I want to think about in order to think it. Like thinking under water or something.

I thought knowing what it feels like to awake already in a trance state would make getting to one while fully awake that much easier, but it hasnt. I am only a week into meditating, and it looks like I will have to rely on the randomness of my LD's to project

-Finn

thanks for the replies, I look forward to conversing with everyone about their own experiences.

I was in italy for three years in 89-92, and lived in the town of Latiano (spelling?), it was just outside Brindisi (a seaport on the tip of Italy) where I was based in the Air Force. I traveled all over Italy and made it to Greece a few times as well. I really liked it there, and found MANY interesting places to explore hiking and camping with friends. Numerous nights were spent telling stories around a campfire in caves, on beaches, and in old run-down desolate battlements we found on our hiking trips.

I miss it sometimes, the cities here in minneapolis are just TOO busy and crowded for me lately. Initially I liked it here, but I am not so sure now. I still have a year left of art school before I will be able to make another decision about where I want to be. For now, I am trying to experience as much as I can while I am here.

-Finn

>>I found that the scum sucking bastard in my dream that scared the bejebus outta me was my spirit guide.<<

wow psi, that experience sounds like it was very scary. I admire your strength in finding out that what you feared would turn out to be an aid.

I think fear is what makes the spritual so hard to understand, and that "fear" is diferent for everyone - There doesnt seem to be any rules governing how fear manifests itself. I think most fears are there to protect us, and are important in keeping us from harm.

Fears associated with spiritual growth seem to almost play some part "in" that growth. In overcoming the initial fears brought on by the spiritual, it is like taking that first step that could and "will" lead to further growth.

All this seems easy to explain of a sudden, but when your the individual experiencing any of his/her fears, it it not that easy. Fear is different for each everyone, and seems to depend on how "ready" that person is for spritual growth. One can say they are ready, but if they are not able to overcome even their "simplest" fears, then they are not ready.

-Finn

very insightful post mayatnik. I must have read it at least five time already, each time focusing on different aspects of each paragraph.

hey kromeknight, nice to meet you.

LOL, I know what you mean about busy, I have final projects due for my classes this week before a 3 week break. Lotta stuff to print and prep for presentations.  Havent been getting a lot of sleep this week so a break will be just what I need right now

nice to meet you guys and read about your experiences.

>>thing<<  I take it that you have not experienced obe yet then?

>>lasher<<  cool, you play guitar as well, I think music helps me to relax and I usually play a bit before starting meditation. Good luck with those lucid dreams, For myself, I cant explain it but usually something happens and I think, hey - that cant happen in real life, so I must be dreaming. Then I think, if I am dreaming, then I can use this time to fly! and I fly LOL it is a great feeling. I have not consciencely tried to fly in an obe, I am still learning how to walk about and regain my wits when I project.

I have only once experienced a sensation of flying out of control, being pulled up into the sky higher and higher, and fighting it cause I wanted to stay close to the surface. Then I read chapter about astral wind and I think I might have been obe, cause it was very much like that. I dont remember anything about it except flying higher than I have ever flown before and sorta scary becuase I was not in control.

>>KP<< hey, I know what you mean. I go hiking and I will just stand in one spot and listen. I too used to have a zillion hobbies, now I am more content to just be out walking, listening, and be around people. I dont know how I ever fit all my previous hobbies into one day

I gotta get back to class and meeting a freind to hit the gym later,

-finn

I have experienced the same feelings. First it started only when I was trying to meditate. There were times when I "felt" a presence around me. I would call out to it but would get no respnse. Only a more intense feeling of "something" and the hair on my neck would start to rise increasing my shivers, which I could feel along the length of my body. Later I began to get these feelings even when not in meditation, mostly when I am walking about outdoors. Like you, if I say "go away, leave me alone right now" the shivers stop.

Sometimes I see shapes dart by in the corner of my eyes as well.  I remember when I was very young telling my parents I was playing with my shadow, and other times playing hide and seek with tthese entities, and when I would get the shivers, then I would run and hide again, waiting for them to find me. Now that I am older, I dont have time to be as carefree as that anymore LOL, and I dont thinkk they are bad, just annoying.

The most intense experience was a year ago, I was reading a book about history of ireland. I "felt" a presence around me and I turned around in my chair to look behind me, I did not see anything there but defeinitely "felt" something there. As I turned around and looked at the place where I thought I felt something, the phone cord was gently swinging back and forth like something had brushed against it. I have yet to explain it......

This may sound silly but I went through a very rough breakup with a recent girtlfriend last year (this was my first serious ralationship, lasting two years and I still had feelings for her but she didnt for me), and I felt very alone (I had plenty of friends for moral support, but when you feel alone, you feel alone no matter how many friends you have). I actually took the feelings of the entities as a form of comfort during that time and I didnt feel so alone.

I dont have any specific advise for you, only my own experiences. I found that If I acknowledge the presence, rather than be annoyed or ask it to go away, results are better. I wouldnt shield them,  I dont think they are bad since they go away when asked, and you might have better luck in finding out what their intentions are than I.  

hope some of this helps you,

hey, I just found this forum last week and I can relate to you being scared. fear is just what it is though, "Fear". The quote their is nothing to fear except fear itself is quite true in this case. The fears you will encounter take on the forms of your own fears and will only hinder any obe experience you may have.

Once you acknowledge the feeling that your scared, then it is easier to focus on how "not" to be scared. It took quite a few experiences for myself to overcome the fear. I didnt just stop being scared after my first experience with voices and shapes. It took quite a few experiences to recognize when I was started to get scared, and keep those feelings in check. The fear is normal, and I think the sooner you can recognize fear, the sooner you will be able to understand how to not let it stop you from experiencing obe.

For myself, all the fears connected with obe were enhanced by my own imagination and once I was projected, I found that I was more curious/disorientated than afraid.

If your like me, I think your imagination will do a better job to create fears than the actual obe. Have you experienced the vibrations, noises or obe sensations yet?

hey, Im am in agreement with the others about any contact making obe difficult. When I am sleeping next to my girlfriend, and I wake up to vibrations it is hard to obe because any movement by her causes me to lose my focus and come out of the trance state. I "have" projected while sleeping with my girlfiend, but that was only when the girl I was dating at the time slept pretty much without moving. Any movement always brought me back into my body.

hey lucid

the voices and intimidating shapes would go away once I was obe, and to be honest I only recently started to understand that I was out of my body.

When I was about 20 and first started feeling paralysis and vibrations, combined with strange voices and shapes was very scary.  I did not understand what was happening and why I was so scared. I was told to ignore these things as some kind of nightmares.

I had many experiences with vibrations and voices and I always woke in terror from the voices and grabbing sensations. It wasnt until recently that I am brave enough to stay relaxed enough to allow an obe. The voices and scary shapes go away for me once I am out of my body. Sometimes the voices are my parents, relatives yelling at me, and the shapes are little gargoyle looking things pulling at me and yanking the covers off me or shaking the bed - all scary. A lot of these experiences have subsided as I got better at obe.

I dont hear as many voices or feel these grabbing/pushing sensations as I used to, I think this is due to my becomoning more aware of obe and possible increasing my energy levels. Roberts book explains these feeling as lower level atral forms and when your energy levels increase, I think what happens is you "bypass" these lower forms. When first experiencing obe my energy levels were low and creating lots of intense vibrations/ringing and possible attracting these sensations to myself.

Now that I understand what is happening, the shapes do not scare me anymore. The last time I encountered a creature/shape I was in a lucid dream state and flying. I fly a lot in my dreams. I was flying over fields and realized that a creature was chasing/following me. At this point I became afraid and started flying faster and around trees and the creature still kept up. I then realized, why am I scared? I stopped in my tracks, turned around, and faced the creature. When it came upon me all fierce I grabbed it by the throat with both hands. It gave a shriek and a surprised look and dissapeared. Now the weird part:

It was then that I realized I was lying in my bed, and when I raised both hands to grab the creature in my dream, I became aware I was using my astral hands, and they were floating above me. At that point I began to intitiate obe stayed fiocused long enough to allow the rest of my astral self to release from my body and walked around my apt. For me, this means that my lucid dreams are some form of lower astral experience. By grabbing the creature in my dreams this somehow transferred into my realizing that my astral arms were grabbing hold of something.  

I dont understand it all yet, but I am trying to.

I have had some experiences with that before.  when I first began experienceing obe and paralysis states I didnt know what was going on and was confused and frightnened at the same time. For me it was loud ringing and sometimes it sounded like a train roaring through my head. VERY uncomfortable feeling let me tell you. even when I awoke I could still feel aftereffects of the sensations as if they really happened.

It has been a while since I experienced VERY loud ringing or roaring sounds in my ears, I think the sounds subside in intensity  as you get more comfortable with obe and your energy levels increase. If you are having these sensations, use it to your advantage and try to stay relaxed and use techniques to obe. It is hard not to wake up after this, so increasing your relaxation techniques will help. the frst few times I was in paralysis or feeling vibrations I didnt know what was going on an just forced myself to wake up, when I should have been relaxing and go for an obe. This was before I knew what was happening and things like this just scared the hell out of me.

hey there, Im new to this place and still learning a lot about all this. I have had a lot of lucid dreams and sensations that I am only now realizing are obe's. I was always scared of this because of those "voices" and "touching sensations" on the body and seeing weird shaped creatures around me when in a state of paralasis (paralysis is scary enough the first few times it happens).

I dont usually talk to poeple about this cause they look at me funny and hopefully I can learn more about obe here. your thread interested me becuase of the lucid dreaming. Once I realized those voices and sensations could not harm me, I was more confident to try obe. But let me tell you, since I was a child those voices and touching sensations can scare the hell out of you especially when you try to tell your freinds about it and they dont understand how frightnening it is.  

I have had plenty of lucid dreams become obe and like you first stated, is it real obe or just a cool dream? I dont know myself except that I "do" know I am conscious and cause it is a different feeling than a dream. In a dream, you are watching yourself like in a movie and things are happening to you. This is different in the way it feels and how things are percieved.

I think there is a line somewhere between lucid dreaming and obe. One lucid dream I was lying under a tree and experieced the vibrations and release of obe, and was in an enviroinment totally seperate from my bedroom (my bedroom does not have a tree in it LOL). Still not sure it that was a dream or if I was projecting into some atral realm instead of RTZ.

My most recent experience, which was 2 nights ago, had me lying in my bed, feeling my arms floating above me, I realized what was happening and stayed relaxed enough to ignore voices and flying shapes, and "rolled" out of my body. When I rolled onto the floor my arms went through the floor, and I somehow stood up. (I would like to talk about how hard it was to control my astral boby too, but that is a differen topic...I usually leave my body spinning and regaining balance was very hard and disorientating to say the least)

I walked around my room, realizing I was in my room and could see my body on the bed. Unlike the first experience I brought up, this time I wasnt somewhere alien, I was in my room. I walked around and my apt was the same except for the bathroom had a slanted roof in it, where it tapers low in on corner, and when I stuck my head outside/through my front door the apt number was 209 not 218. It was then I heard a little girls voice say "hello" and before I could turn around I was awake. end of experince.  

I would like to talk more about the voices and touching grabbing feelings I used to experience when I was younger and still get, but not as often. I think robert gave a good description of them as low level entities atracted to the obe. it is different than a dream cause I know how a nightmare feels and this was different. It has taken me a long time to overcome those fears and I am interested in learning more about obe. I hope to talk more about this with everyone.

thanks for listening
-finn