Messages

Nodes, that is great!!! 

Rave, can you share where you heard about the third person theory?

I believe some of the native american peoples were camera-shy, as they thought it would steal your soul to have your picture taken.

Superstition is easy to fall into, and some of it is based on fact. Walking under a ladder, for instance, is not a good idea, so it evolved into "bad luck." You could brush against it and knock someone off, or cause something to fall on you, or just cause it to fall. I don't know where the black cat thing came from.

Purely my opinion, but I am inclined to believe Randi has good intentions. He is, however, setting an extremely high standard of proof. I can't fault it, but believe that level of proof is more valid in some scientific arenas than in others.

If I were doing a physics experiement, I would expect 100% repeatability before I could say my hypothesis was valid. However, move the experiment to medical research and the logic changes. It is virtually impossible to adjust for all variables in that area, so you accept a lower "proof" percentage. If a particular treatment worked 50% of the time it would merit attention.

I saw a show on PBS about Randi once. In one instance he showed a Russian psychic pictures of individuals to see what she could tell about them. One of the pictures was of a serial killer/cannibal. She failed to meet his standards because she didn't pick up on the killer's deeds. However, there were enough details she did glean to make it worth exploring in my book. Again, the difference between an "absolute" science and one involving variables.

My bottom line is that both sides of this issue tend to throw out the baby and the bath water. It appears, however, that some are beginning to see the advantages of working together. Now, that will be the beginning of some great opportunities!

Hi TVoS,

Good post and I am glad that your hard work is paying off! 

It brings up a thought. Do you think that the ability to go OB is meant to be an end in itself, or could it be another step along whatever educational path we are following? I wonder if it would be possible to try for an OBE from the OBE?

I am a goodly ways from being able to experiment with this kind of thing, but would be interested in your thoughts about it. (where's the emoticon for really curious!) 

WalkerInTheWoods,

I just wonder how much is propaganda and politics and how much is fact.

Second that!!

Rave_master_naruto,

i have a difficulties doing meditation. are there any technique that can awaken ones potential (except NEW)?

I am not sure from this whether you are equating meditation to NEW -- they are different. Meditation is not easy, at least for me. To begin with, it's hard to still your mind and relax your body. Then there is deciding what kind of meditation you want to do -- focusing on breath, noticing thoughts, blank (for lack of a better word) meditation, or focusing on an intention. The best advice I can give here is just to keep practicing. (And I need to practice what I preach!  )

As to energy raising techniques, have you considered Tai Chai? Again, that's one that's an area I plan to explore when I get a round tuit. (Boy, those are hard to come by!) 

As to being sealed (I don't care for that word either), I'm not sure if it's real or not. I have long felt like there was some kind of metaphysical wall between me and "God" or "enlightenment" (spiritual awakening -- whatever). But it seems like the more I work on it and the more regularly I practice, the weaker that wall becomes. Maybe one day it will come down! 

Only my opinion, but if we are in fact put here to learn lessons, could that limitation (seal or whatever) be in place because we haven't learned enough to go to the next level?

Either way you're making progress.  IMO, the only time to know you're having an actual OBE is when it occurs while you are wide awake. But even if it was "just" a lucid dream, how cool is that?!! 

My most recentl semi-flying dream was when me and I friend were practicing flight. We kept levitating up into a huge tree near the friend's house, then jumping out. We were unable to really fly though, we both just kept gliding back to the ground. It was a pleasant dream, and we were not upset -- we both somehow knew we just had to keep practicing. It was a pretty dream.

For me, flying dreams are nearly always happy. Maybe the ability to fly has something to do with whether you are in a good mood when you go to sleep???

Someone asked if flying dreams are always near my house. Mine are not. In fact, my most memorable one had me soaring and diving over what looked like English countryside, though I've never been there so can't say for sure. Now that was a nice dream! 

I did figure it out -- that would be a Duhhhh! 

I do like the layout changes. It seems simpler to navigate and faster as well. Good job!

WalkerInTheWoods,

Thanks for your words, they help. You are right in a lot of respects. And thanks for the karma mark, too! 

At least with my pets I hope I have learned what they were perhaps sent to teach. As for those poor bird-dogs, I still think I have an accounting to make. Again, you may well be right. It would be nice to think that they were rescued.

By the way, I like the change in your pen-name. 

WITW,
You said

But how can you be cruel and not really know it?

How about when you give a pet away, for whatever reason, or run one of those "free to good home" ads? I did it a time or two when I was younger and didn't know better. How do I know what kind of home that pet wound up in, or how they were treated? It still bothers me and I am not sure but that I may have to pay for it one day. I guess that kind of thing is "the big one" for me. I had power over the life of an innocent and basically blew it.

Another one on my conscience happened when I was around 12 or so. A friend and I found two bird dogs locked in a kennel in the woods by a creek bed. They were very skinny and one could not get up. Being young and totally stupid, we assumed they were sick. Of course, over the years I have figured out that some kind #%#-hole had just gone away and left them to starve. The kennel was locked and we couldn't figure out how to get the padlock off. We finally just left. I don't remember ever telling anyone about it, so the dogs undoubtedly died -- unpleasantly. Yes, it was ignorance, but it was also cruel. That one haunts me! (Stupid me -- sitting here crying while I write this.)

Nay,
What a shame your family chose to teach you such a hard lesson. Life will slap you around all on its own without the need to "teach reality". Reality bites everyone sooner or later. I also learned my first lesson in the food chain from chickens. An uncle had caught a chicken while I was nearby (about age five or six I think) and I ran over, thinking he caught it so I could pet it. Well, he rung its neck just as I got close. Not fun!

I can't figure out how to see just posts new since my last log-in. The Help area says there is supposed to be an icon for this, but I can't find it.... help?

Alaskans, you are right on point, IMO!

In my experience there are definitely what I call places of power. Muir Woods in California was the most intense I have ever felt, but not the only one. I flew over one (airplane, not astral)   in Texas once -- that was downright weird!!

I love having the last word!     (Nay, the ball is in your court!)

Fallnangel77,
I totally agree with your rationale, but have just about admitted defeat. I believe that we "privileged, spoiled Americans" are caught in an economic trap. I know that pretty much every bite of anything I eat (vegetable or meat) is laced with toxins, pesticides, or mutated genes. But not being independently wealthy, I can't pay five prices for "real" food. So I close my eyes and eat it anyway. I also know that current food production practices cannot continue forever.

If I were king, my goal would not be "meatless vs. vegan," but rather, sustainability. It takes a harmonious circle of plants and animals to ensure that all survive. Within that circle is room for all diet preferences. PBS has had a couple of excellent programs on this subject -- one which was "The History of Chickens."  

Getting back to the point of the thread, IMO there is no negative karma attached to killing to survive. Karma issues come into play when you are cruel, whatever the reason – whenever you inflict needless suffering.

Actually, that raises a question for me -- what happens if you are cruel lthrough ignorance and not by intent?

Hypernicus,

Bingo!  

Alaskans>
You make an excellent point. Those who claim they don't kill because they don't eat meat are fooling only themselves. You must kill to survive – end of story.

Plants are no less alive because they cannot communicate with us. Who knows, to them, we may not seem "alive" because we miss so much of what they perceive!  

Adrian,
It is well that you choose to be vegan, but you could not sustain it without nutritional supplements or, as Alaskans said, in a truly natural environment. Alaskans is also correct about omnivore vs. vegetarian. Humans were most certainly designed to be omnivorous – that includes meat.

I agree whole-heartedly on disliking the "food factory" environment we presently live in. But that is not limited to meat factories. I "guestimate" probably 95% of our vegetables, fruits, nuts, grains, etc. are produced in the same manner. That is what is going to bite us in the butt in the long run – as it is already doing health-wise.

You say vegans eat a natural human diet. That is only partially true. Vegans eat a highly artificial diet that would be unsustainable in nature. As to vegans living longer than meat-eaters, even if true, there are many explanations for it that have nothing to do with meat or the lack of it. There have been studies done on both animals and humans that show a diet deficient in calories will extend your life span. That is one possible explanation. There are many others.  :confused:

Most people could eat a lot less meat than they do with no harm done. This is shown by cultures in which meat makes up a small part of their diet. But even those cultures certainly do eat meat, mostly in the form of fish, squid, etc.

The closest thing to a non-meat culture I can think of would be the Japanese, Chinese and folks on the Pacific Rim. But they are not meatless. They rely on fish (and other sea food) and supplement with chicken, pigs, etc.

Hypernicus,
Vegans do not eat fish, egg or milk. They eat nothing with any animal connection. A vegetarian eats diary products and fish as part of their diet. If you are going to go vegan, you should read up on nutritional needs carefully. You can be a vegetarian without supplements, but on a vegan diet you will need supplements. No diet is a magic formula to good health -- exercise plays a huge role in how we feel.

Fallnangel77,
Early humans had brains as part of their arsenal. (How we are using them lately is another subject entirely!     ) I can give many examples of humans killing and eating, as I did in my earlier post. Early humans would drive animals off cliff edges when they could. Cave art shows them killing animals with spears and such. That goes on today with other species, and other cultures.

Native Americans hunted Buffalo on horseback, but they also tracked and killed deer and other animals on foot, sometimes with nothing more than a knife. It was traditional to eat certain parts of the animal on the spot. Snares, nets, deadfalls were (and are) also weapons in early man's arsenal. Pygmies in Africa use poisoned darts (blowguns) to kill prey.

I know there is more than grass to eat, but think about it. What would you eat in the middle of winter if there were no grocery stores or restaurants? Or better yet, in early spring when any stored food was almost certainly in short supply? And for that matter, how would you store a winter's worth of food?

Here is a link that discusses early agriculture: http://www.aces.uiuc.edu/~sare/backinfo.html.

If you can give me examples of cultures that don't eat meat in their normal diet I would appreciate it. I have done some research in nutrition and am always interested in adding to that knowledge.

I am playing devil's advocate somewhat in this post, but if true, beneficial change is to be made, then people first have to deal with the way things are – not just how we wish they were.

PS: There seems to be an issue about eating raw meat. That was the least of early human problems and is not a huge issue for many people today. How many of you eat sashimi? How many cringe at sushi? The Tom Hanks movie, Cast Away, sheds some light on what folks will eat when they have to.

Jalef --      

One more thought just came to mind. Did you know that owls, if fed only cuts of meat instead of the whole carcass, would die of malnutrition? The same thing goes for wolves and some other species. Each of these require nutrients found in the digestive tract of their prey in order to survive.

And did you know that cats are just about the only species that must eat meat or they will die? Again, malnutrition. Their systems need nutrients found only in meat. (Modern cat food can work around this artifically to some extent, but we are talking natural diets here.)

Just interesting tidbits.  

Fallnangel77,

We live in a predator universe.

I totally agree. Our world requires that almost every organism kill to survive. This starts at the one-celled level and goes to the top of the food chain.

Do we have claws for catching other animals? Do we have teeth for ripping and biting raw flesh? Would you even think about eating a raw dead animal? Could your stomach handle that?

The short answer is, yes, yes, yes and yes.

The human physical form is designed to be omnivorous. Likewise with the Champanzee. We are designed as opportunists -- we will eat what comes along. Chimps, and others in the ape and monkey family, will eat meat and have been filmed actually hunting and killing other species.

We are not designed as herbivores and could not live on grass and such. We are also not designed as "pure carnivores" which is why we don't have as large and sharp a tooth or claw as those species.

As to eating raw meat, there are many people all over the globe who do just that. The Maisai (I think) in Africa routinely drink fresh blood, either "a la cart" or mixed with milk. And no, my stomach wouldn't handle it for a second, but that's just because of our culture. Eating raw, live grubs doesn't trip my trigger either, but the Australian natives like them. If we had to do it, our tummies would adjust.

From a pure biological standpoint, humans are meant to eat fruits, nuts, grains, veggies -- and meat.

why are we placed here, in a world where everything must take from others in order to survive?

I wish I knew!!!  

The point of all this is that I don't think killing in order to survive, if done as gently as possible, will gather any negative karma. However, some cultures, I believe Korea among them, routinely beat dogs to death in order to enjoy what they call "sweet meat." That is bruised and bloody flesh. If that doesn't earn them some major bad karma, then it should!

When I look where Mustardseed has labeled the eyes and mouth, a dog's face suddenly jumps into focus. It looks like either a Borzoi, Scottish Deerhound or a breed like that.

Can anyone else see it?

Mustardseed, this is an interesting thread, but I think you may be reaching a bit for an astral connection. Not to say it could not be, because who really knows?

Leilah,

If you are considering a career in writing, you might consider technical writing courses -- there are colleges that give degrees/certifications in that.

I took a few journalism courses when I was in school. I did learn a few things, but could not recommend it to anyone with ethics or empathy.

As for creative writiing, almost any college will offer courses. Talk with the Dean of the English department (or counselors in that department) and see what they offer. I have taken several -- learned a lot and enjoyed every one!  

Probably the best way to improve your writing skills is to join a writers' group in your area. A group with published authors as members is your best bet, but again, any of them will be helpful.


Greenrat said:

creativity is something that shouldnt be taught

Excuse me?   And what else would you withhold from the "huddled masses" in your role as lord and master?

If you are sayiing that some folks have more natural creativity than others, I would agree. But any skill can be enhanced by knowledge and practice! Even painting a house goes a lot easier if someone bothers to learn a bit about it before beginning.

It sounds like you may be young and still in the "school is a waste of time" mindset. Dude, that could not be farther from the truth!

Max,

I am not sure I follow your logic, so I am going to do a bit of exploring here.

if modern man is a product of natural selection, would it not then be safe to assume that, because of the process, that we cannot have a soul

Logically, the "soul" is a part of the natural world, like hearing, sight, etc. Therefore, it would be part of the selection process along with everything else. It could be expressed differently in different organisms, but would not have to be (or even likely be) exclusive to humans.

Dogs have a sharp sense of smell and lesser vision. Elephants have phenomal hearing but are weak in other areas. Humans have tool-using ability (opposable thumb) but not much else. Hmmmm, wonder if dolhins or whales have more of a "soul" than humans?

We humans are way too arrogant about our own supposed supremacy. Even Buddhists speak of "this precious human body" (there is no emoticon for gag me!). Natural selection is nothing more than a dice game. It is not a process that guarantees evolving into something "higher" or "better." And there is certainly nothing about natural selection that guarantees humans are "more evolved" anything. It is simply nature rolling the dice.

If a particular trait doesn't work, the species with that trait dies off. Nature is totally indifferent about the outcome. So what makes humans think we are so great? We could well wind up being one of those evolutionary blind alleys everyone talks about but nobody thinks about!

how is it possible for people to OBE

Why not? There is no evidence that a "soul" (however you define it) is a requirement for OBEs. All you have to have is a particular electrical pulse running through a particular synapse. It is a physical ability, like dreaming. In fact, it is pretty closly connected to dreaming. Dogs dream. They may also have the ability to go OBE. Same point could be made for many other animals. Who knows about insects!  

It could well be that all of our metaphysical abilities are made possible by the physical traits inherent in our brain. It dies, we die, end of story. That's a puzzle I am still trying to work out.  :confused:

So my final answer would be that one does not necessarily have a bearing on the other.

Try going with it and see what happens.

I thought I had better clarify

anti-Christian and anti-Bush, though why those two are related

In my mind, the fact that Bush happens to be a Christian is not relevant --my disagreement with him stems from his political agenda, not his religious beliefs.

Hi Beth,

Okay, you have potentially rattled one of my assumptions about you. It is clear that you are anti-Christian and anti-Bush, though why those two are related in your mind puzles me.

So, a question: Are your posts on Muslim terrorists there to somehow demonstrate more anti-Bush sentiments? Or are they to demonstrate that more than just Christians have their idiots? I am not asking to be insulting or flippant -- I truly am interested in where you are coming from.

And before you put me in your "blind follower" box, I assure you that is not the case. My religion, as I have posted before, could best be described as a sort of Christian/Buddhist/Wiccan/Druid combinition, with probably a slightly heavier Druid tilt.

Politically, I am a conservative tree-hugger with a concern about illegal aliens who cut in line. Both Democrats and Republicans are, for the most part, corruption-ridden hogs who need to be separated from the trough!    Unfortunately, I see no way of doing that as they are the only choices we have!

Shinobi,
I couldn't have said it better!   I call it the sheep syndrome. If you want a non-religious, non-political (as of now) example, just look at the Bird Flu scare. The media has quite successfully blown an extremely hypothetical possibility into something that has people reacting exactly like a herd of -- donkeys! A retirement center when my parent lives has recently forbidden the residents to feed the birds because of the "danger of diseases like Bird Flu."  

Runlola,

Thanks, I just never thought about that! (slaps self on head!)